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Kipers Mock 2.0

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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:08 pm

I'm still trying to figure out how on earth is being six one still considered a problem for NFL qbs.

The era of the six foot four stud or bust is over. Deader than dead times dead.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:34 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:I'm still trying to figure out how on earth is being six one still considered a problem for NFL qbs.

The era of the six foot four stud or bust is over. Deader than dead times dead.


6'3, 227lbs is the average H & W of NFL starting QBs.

The 'elite' guys?

Rodgers- 6'2" 220
Rivers- 6'5" 228
Eli- 6'4" 220
Brees- 6'0" 209
Ben- 6'5" 240lbs
Brady- 6'4" 225
Peyton- 6'5" 235
Vick- 6'0" 215

Who else is near elite/Top 1/2 of league?

Schaub- 6'5" 240
Ryan- 6'4" 220
Stafford- 6'2" 230+
Flacco- 6'6" 245lbs
Sanchez- 6'2" 225
Romo- 6'2" 220

There are two guys under 6'2" tall who are elite and they're freaks.

If RG# is that freak then cool. But there are very few guys at 6'1" or under playing in the league.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:19 pm

RG3 is listed at 6'2, but we'll know for sure in a couple of days, so let's shelve the height topic for a few, hmmmm?

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Not entirely true. Randall Cunningham had his best pro year in 1998, going over 3700 yards. Steve McNair was starting to come into his own. And Kordell Stewart was... well, I'll stop right there.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:10 pm

Hikohadon wrote:RG3 is listed at 6'2, but we'll know for sure in a couple of days, so let's shelve the height topic for a few, hmmmm?

Image

On the Browns when thy came back ,

There was no successful Black QB's other than Warren Moon the pocket passer .


Not entirely true. Randall Cunningham had his best pro year in 1998, going over 3700 yards. Steve McNair was starting to come into his own. And Kordell Stewart was... well, I'll stop right there.


He's wearing Baylor boots or kneeling on a chair in that picture.

You're such a fool. ;-) ;) :wink:

By the way, I answered e0y2e3's post regarding not being necessary to be 6'1" or bigger. Let's not let the fact that all those guys but Vick and Brees are bigger get in the way of supporting a position.

And let's dare not suggest a quarterback that's 6'1" or less can/should be compared to those two elite QBs. Because that brings us to Cutey McLovable who's already here. :hide:
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:15 pm

I swear I hope he's a legit 6'2" though and that he reads defenses like an English professor buzzes through See Spot Run. Because I simply cannot wait to see this place abuzz about a cross between MichaelJohn Vickelway and Clarence Darrow.

Gonna be greaaaaat!!!!
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby jb » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:10 pm

peeker643 wrote:I swear I hope he's a legit 6'2" though and that he reads defenses like an English professor buzzes through See Spot Run. Because I simply cannot wait to see this place abuzz about a cross between MichaelJohn Vickelway and Clarence Darrow.

Gonna be greaaaaat!!!!



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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:48 pm

6'1-6'2" is pretty damn common these days, common enough that I would venture to say if you are an elite QB at that size (regardless of size) you'll be succesful and if you are a shitty QB at that size you will suck (see Colt).

Height is increasingly marginalized with the use of the spread, shotgun, etc.

And if you're going to split hair over a half inch between 6'1" and a 1/2 and 6'2", well it's time to find a hobbey.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:05 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:6'1-6'2" is pretty damn common these days, common enough that I would venture to say if you are an elite QB at that size (regardless of size) you'll be succesful and if you are a shitty QB at that size you will suck (see Colt).

Height is increasingly marginalized with the use of the spread, shotgun, etc.

And if you're going to split hair over a half inch between 6'1" and a 1/2 and 6'2", well it's time to find a hobbey.


No way. Hair splitting is only acceptable when it serves someone else's benefit.

All I know is there are two QBs listed below 6'2" tall. That seems to me to indicate that 6'1" is not at all common place. Unless common place is defined as 5% of the league's starters.


End of the day I agree that an elite QB is an elite QB whether he's Dan McGwire or Eddie Gaedell-size. But please don't tell me teams go out searching for guys who are 6'1 or 6'2 to play the position.

And if arguing about the draft prospects of a guy who we will know intimately about in a week for the last month isn't a hobby then I'm not sure what is. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:46 pm

Hikohadon wrote:RG3 is listed at 6'2, but we'll know for sure in a couple of days, so let's shelve the height topic for a few, hmmmm?

Image

On the Browns when thy came back ,

There was no successful Black QB's other than Warren Moon the pocket passer .


Not entirely true. Randall Cunningham had his best pro year in 1998, going over 3700 yards. Steve McNair was starting to come into his own. And Kordell Stewart was... well, I'll stop right there.



SD:

Only Moon was the HOF worthy icon you could hang your hat on , McNair was still working when we came back in 99 and Randalls legacy was tarnished partly because he was a runner and not viewed as a pocket passer , which fit the argument of the Black sterotype about QB's

So the safe pick then was Couch as it is now with Luck and the state of that Franchise with Peyton leaving .

For the record I hated everything about Akillme from his personality to his size , thought McNabb was a run first QB who could throw and Culpepper worthy only as a third round project ., so when the reports about Couch came in I pooh poohed the stuff about the screw in his thumb and palmer changing his grip and any other negative press about arm strength , because I wanted to believe we were drafting the man and those 4000 yards of College stats would trnslate in the pros.

I was even in denile and unconcerned and turned off my alrm bells ,when he spurned Kosar and swore Montanna was his true hero , and looked over the obvious political gaffe .

Even more than the Policy Couch set up , there is no way Irsay draft RG3 and dump Manning and forego the pick of Luck even if RG3 was rated higher , which was why Polian doesn't have a job now , and Dungy won't be invited to any Colt homecomings for uttering such sacriledge.

This one is like picking prize fighters and why heavyweight fights are the top draw .

You can win with either guy in any system and you don't have to knock one because you like the other .

But in a head to head Luck brings more size and an NFL background from growing up as the son of an NFL QB .

While RG3 brings off the chart athleticism , smarts and an arm which maybe one of the top five all time .

No way we could lose picking either unless one was Ryan Leaf or the other Jamarcus Russell .

and

These guys are the once in a lifetime polar opposites to those two clusterfucks.



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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:24 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Does RG3 have question marks? Of course. Every QB in the history of the NFL Draft has had question marks. He has less than most, but probably more than Luck. Do the question marks mean anything? Only time will tell.

Does he have "concerns"? Not really. A question mark is a worry about an unknown, a concern is a worry about a known problem.

I don't think a majority of people think he's Football Jesus. But I do think people are latching onto him because he's simply the only option that in all likelihood has the potential to be anything close to Football Jesus.

Flynn, Tannehill, Kolb... thems is all Football Random Nameless Monk In Some Monestary In Medieval Latvia.

And Colteca McWallace? He's Football Judas.


The fact he's not even 6'2" tall is a concern of mine. The fact he's got a smaller frame is a concern of mine.

The fact he's not had to truly read defenses is a concern of mine although it's one that can easily be alleviated if he displays that ability in his upcoming skull sessions.

I guess questions vs. concerns is a subjective issue too.


SD:

That is not a fact , and if you had the NFLN you'd have seen the interviews and learned what a quick study he is , and how silly your concerns are about his ability to learn .

Mark Shlereth was impressed with the reporst coming in to him that his football smarts eclipse his Grade Point average which ws 3.67 while earning a Masters in four years while playing football .

The kid eventually wants to go to Law school .

training camp reports him having a show him tell him once cat like learning quickness , no repeats .

and that frail guy you think your looking at did a 695 lb standing leg press inbetwen film of watching him throw and work on his foot work and mechanics .

I understand your concern , after watching the Browns picks for these last twelve years , but on this one

don't make me be the bad guy slap your ownself and make it hard enough to pass out so you can wake the fuck up :)

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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:31 pm

peeker643 wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:I'm still trying to figure out how on earth is being six one still considered a problem for NFL qbs.

The era of the six foot four stud or bust is over. Deader than dead times dead.


6'3, 227lbs is the average H & W of NFL starting QBs.

The 'elite' guys?

Rodgers- 6'2" 220
Rivers- 6'5" 228
Eli- 6'4" 220
Brees- 6'0" 209
Ben- 6'5" 240lbs
Brady- 6'4" 225
Peyton- 6'5" 235
Vick- 6'0" 215

Who else is near elite/Top 1/2 of league?

Schaub- 6'5" 240
Ryan- 6'4" 220
Stafford- 6'2" 230+
Flacco- 6'6" 245lbs
Sanchez- 6'2" 225
Romo- 6'2" 220

There are two guys under 6'2" tall who are elite and they're freaks.

If RG# is that freak then cool. But there are very few guys at 6'1" or under playing in the league.


SD:

peek I'm betting RG3 comes in plus 6.205 which puts him a shade over six foot 2 inches and a hair under a full 1/4 inch and close to an eigth but still over by more than a whisker .

When you consider the best QB ever Joe Montana measured 74 inches exactly , my worry now is that RG3 maybe too tall .........


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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:35 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Does RG3 have question marks? Of course. Every QB in the history of the NFL Draft has had question marks. He has less than most, but probably more than Luck. Do the question marks mean anything? Only time will tell.

Does he have "concerns"? Not really. A question mark is a worry about an unknown, a concern is a worry about a known problem.

I don't think a majority of people think he's Football Jesus. But I do think people are latching onto him because he's simply the only option that in all likelihood has the potential to be anything close to Football Jesus.

Flynn, Tannehill, Kolb... thems is all Football Random Nameless Monk In Some Monestary In Medieval Latvia.

And Colteca McWallace? He's Football Judas.


The fact he's not even 6'2" tall is a concern of mine. The fact he's got a smaller frame is a concern of mine.

The fact he's not had to truly read defenses is a concern of mine although it's one that can easily be alleviated if he displays that ability in his upcoming skull sessions.

I guess questions vs. concerns is a subjective issue too.


SD:

That is not a fact , and if you had the NFLN you'd have seen the interviews and learned what a quick study he is , and how silly your concerns are about his ability to learn .

Mark Shlereth was impressed with the reporst coming in to him that his football smarts eclipse his Grade Point average which ws 3.67 while earning a Masters in four years while playing football .

The kid eventually wants to go to Law school .

training camp reports him having a show him tell him once cat like learning quickness , no repeats .

and that frail guy you think your looking at did a 695 lb standing leg press inbetwen film of watching him throw and work on his foot work and mechanics .

I understand your concern , after watching the Browns picks for these last twelve years , but on this one

don't make me be the bad guy slap your ownself and make it hard enough to pass out so you can wake the fuck up :)

SoulDawg


Circles.

Again, circles.

I'm not saying he's not smart. He's smarter than either of us. I'm saying that doesn't necessarily mean he can recognize, dissect and counter attack an NFL defense in the blink of an eye that it takes. Lots of smart guys can't. And strength ain't the same as build. Don't matter what you can bench or squat or press when your narrow ass gets hit.

Last time: if they like what they hear in the skull sessions then go get him. If he can sit in there and diagnose a Ravens or Steeler blitz in real time, call out the proper protections and adjustments and tell you where the throw is supposed to go while getting his guys lined up to beat it, then go get that kid for whatever it takes. Take your chances with his skinny ass that ain't quite 6'2" and go get him.

But if he can't......
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:14 pm

peeker643 wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Does RG3 have question marks? Of course. Every QB in the history of the NFL Draft has had question marks. He has less than most, but probably more than Luck. Do the question marks mean anything? Only time will tell.

Does he have "concerns"? Not really. A question mark is a worry about an unknown, a concern is a worry about a known problem.

I don't think a majority of people think he's Football Jesus. But I do think people are latching onto him because he's simply the only option that in all likelihood has the potential to be anything close to Football Jesus.

Flynn, Tannehill, Kolb... thems is all Football Random Nameless Monk In Some Monestary In Medieval Latvia.

And Colteca McWallace? He's Football Judas.


The fact he's not even 6'2" tall is a concern of mine. The fact he's got a smaller frame is a concern of mine.

The fact he's not had to truly read defenses is a concern of mine although it's one that can easily be alleviated if he displays that ability in his upcoming skull sessions.

I guess questions vs. concerns is a subjective issue too.


SD:

That is not a fact , and if you had the NFLN you'd have seen the interviews and learned what a quick study he is , and how silly your concerns are about his ability to learn .

Mark Shlereth was impressed with the reporst coming in to him that his football smarts eclipse his Grade Point average which ws 3.67 while earning a Masters in four years while playing football .

The kid eventually wants to go to Law school .

training camp reports him having a show him tell him once cat like learning quickness , no repeats .

and that frail guy you think your looking at did a 695 lb standing leg press inbetwen film of watching him throw and work on his foot work and mechanics .

I understand your concern , after watching the Browns picks for these last twelve years , but on this one

don't make me be the bad guy slap your ownself and make it hard enough to pass out so you can wake the fuck up :)

SoulDawg


Circles.

Again, circles.

I'm not saying he's not smart. He's smarter than either of us. I'm saying that doesn't necessarily mean he can recognize, dissect and counter attack an NFL defense in the blink of an eye that it takes. Lots of smart guys can't. And strength ain't the same as build. Don't matter what you can bench or squat or press when your narrow ass gets hit.

Last time: if they like what they hear in the skull sessions then go get him. If he can sit in there and diagnose a Ravens or Steeler blitz in real time, call out the proper protections and adjustments and tell you where the throw is supposed to go while getting his guys lined up to beat it, then go get that kid for whatever it takes. Take your chances with his skinny ass that ain't quite 6'2" and go get him.

But if he can't......


SD:

They'll get him alright , randy put it on Layaway .

Nevermind the kid being smart .

No less than mark shlereth says his football IQ beats his book smarts and he played offense on that Denver offense and knows the importance of what you speak .

Your concern is a legit point .

That you've made it a point of emphasis that you have to be convinced this kid whose excelled at every level on the field and off would be stumped by something which caused Couch to be put out of football , and where Mccoy doesn't have a clue aren't supported thru any measure or means that he's gonna have the same problem .

Quite the contrary .



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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:23 am

peeker643 wrote:
Circles.

Again, circles.

I'm not saying he's not smart. He's smarter than either of us. I'm saying that doesn't necessarily mean he can recognize, dissect and counter attack an NFL defense in the blink of an eye that it takes. Lots of smart guys can't. And strength ain't the same as build. Don't matter what you can bench or squat or press when your narrow ass gets hit.

Last time: if they like what they hear in the skull sessions then go get him. If he can sit in there and diagnose a Ravens or Steeler blitz in real time, call out the proper protections and adjustments and tell you where the throw is supposed to go while getting his guys lined up to beat it, then go get that kid for whatever it takes. Take your chances with his skinny ass that ain't quite 6'2" and go get him.

But if he can't......


It probably don't mean much, but I dont think it's unreasonable to expect a 22 year old kid to fill out alittle bit.

Plus, did you see the fuckin hamstring hanging off that dude's leg in that interview? He's got a lot of muscle packed on that skinny frame. Wirey as hell and tougher than a $2 steak.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby gotribe31 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:33 am

MacPhisto : Mitt Romney

as

SoulDawg : Mark Schlereth
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:55 am

gotribe31 wrote:MacPhisto : Mitt Romney

as

SoulDawg : Mark Schlereth



SD:

It all starts up front , comments from a man whose been in the trnches for Ellway and served with the Hoggs in DC , that are positive come from a far different perspective and carry more importance , than a normal talking head .

These guys get behind a guy they feel they can lay it on the line for , and Mark's comments were coming from that techinical perspective that this kid has it upstairs .

His note was he's a football player , not a just a Jock , the football acumen is off the charts .

That wasn't Marla the gypsy readng a Crystal ball , but an NFL lineman whose been there and done that with the best in the bidness and gone all the way and won.


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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:29 am

peeker643 wrote:And let's dare not suggest a quarterback that's 6'1" or less can/should be compared to those two elite QBs. Because that brings us to Cutey McLovable who's already here. :hide:


I will bet my spleen that RG3 is taller than Colt.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:23 am

But is RG3 as adorkable as Coltey?!

Yeah, that's what I thought.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:29 am

e0y2e3 wrote:But is RG3 as adorkable as Coltey?!

Yeah, that's what I thought.


When he throws that first 20-yard comeback route on a line he will be. ;-) ;) :wink:

Even after Massaquoi drops it.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby mattvan1 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:34 am

The sheer hilarity of this thread will become evident on draft day, when RG3 is gone before the Browns pick, or even better (or worse), when he's there and H&H don't pull the trigger.

And sayeth nearly everyone's personal draft jeezus, Ron Wolf -
"If I batted .333 in the draft, I was pretty happy. No one bats .500. The fascinating thing about pro football is, no matter how long you're in it, you can't predict how guys are going to handle the pressure, the limelight, the money..."

Personally, I like him and hope they draft him. Which probably means they don't and won't.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:36 am

Oh I fully expect the dual headed beast of Kolb/Coltey next year.

I also plan to fall off me seat laughing during game one and not be watching anymore by game five.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:15 pm

mattvan1 wrote:The sheer hilarity of this thread will become evident on draft day, when RG3 is gone before the Browns pick, or even better (or worse), when he's there and H&H don't pull the trigger.

And sayeth nearly everyone's personal draft jeezus, Ron Wolf -
"If I batted .333 in the draft, I was pretty happy. No one bats .500. The fascinating thing about pro football is, no matter how long you're in it, you can't predict how guys are going to handle the pressure, the limelight, the money..."

Personally, I like him and hope they draft him. Which probably means they don't and won't.


I'm pretty sure that most people will lose their freakin' minds if the Browns don't get RG3, whether someone jumps them or they pass at 4 (that would be even more riot-inducing).

Personally, I'll wait until RG3 has played a down in the NFL before I roast anyone for passing on him. But they had better be right. Fuck that one up, and you get lynched.

I'm sure they're aware that getting RG3 gives them a lot more latitude with the fanbase. If they want to go against that, then they'd better hope their convictions are correct.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:28 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:The sheer hilarity of this thread will become evident on draft day, when RG3 is gone before the Browns pick, or even better (or worse), when he's there and H&H don't pull the trigger.

And sayeth nearly everyone's personal draft jeezus, Ron Wolf -
"If I batted .333 in the draft, I was pretty happy. No one bats .500. The fascinating thing about pro football is, no matter how long you're in it, you can't predict how guys are going to handle the pressure, the limelight, the money..."

Personally, I like him and hope they draft him. Which probably means they don't and won't.


I'm pretty sure that most people will lose their freakin' minds if the Browns don't get RG3, whether someone jumps them or they pass at 4 (that would be even more riot-inducing).

Personally, I'll wait until RG3 has played a down in the NFL before I roast anyone for passing on him. But they had better be right. Fuck that one up, and you get lynched.

I'm sure they're aware that getting RG3 gives them a lot more latitude with the fanbase. If they want to go against that, then they'd better hope their convictions are correct.


Lock step on taking him at #4 if he's there. Where I need more data is when it's costing me multiple picks to go up. I want all my concerns assuaged in that case.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:35 pm

peeker643 wrote:Lock step on taking him at #4 if he's there. Where I need more data is when it's costing me multiple picks to go up. I want all my concerns assuaged in that case.


Which you won't get assauged until after they pick him and he plays - IF they pick him.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby mattvan1 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:36 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:The sheer hilarity of this thread will become evident on draft day, when RG3 is gone before the Browns pick, or even better (or worse), when he's there and H&H don't pull the trigger.

And sayeth nearly everyone's personal draft jeezus, Ron Wolf -
"If I batted .333 in the draft, I was pretty happy. No one bats .500. The fascinating thing about pro football is, no matter how long you're in it, you can't predict how guys are going to handle the pressure, the limelight, the money..."

Personally, I like him and hope they draft him. Which probably means they don't and won't.


I'm pretty sure that most people will lose their freakin' minds if the Browns don't get RG3, whether someone jumps them or they pass at 4 (that would be even more riot-inducing).

Personally, I'll wait until RG3 has played a down in the NFL before I roast anyone for passing on him. But they had better be right. Fuck that one up, and you get lynched.

I'm sure they're aware that getting RG3 gives them a lot more latitude with the fanbase. If they want to go against that, then they'd better hope their convictions are correct.


Lock step on taking him at #4 if he's there. Where I need more data is when it's costing me multiple picks to go up. I want all my concerns assuaged in that case.


My own personal bet - H&H stay put at #4; RGIII goes at #2. The Browns claim they "tried to move up" but EOD "with all of our needs, the price was too steep"
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:57 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:Lock step on taking him at #4 if he's there. Where I need more data is when it's costing me multiple picks to go up. I want all my concerns assuaged in that case.


Which you won't get assauged until after they pick him and he plays - IF they pick him.


More circles- The Browns will know about him in a week than they do today. They'll know more about his ability to break down a defense, more about his true height and more about whether he can add bulk to his sprinters frame.

So some of those concerns can be assuaged in the next week. It won't obviously mean as much as when real bullets fly, but I'm dopey like that in that I want as much information as possible on a guy I'm potentially mortgaging my future on.

God I'm sick of this draft already. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:17 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:Lock step on taking him at #4 if he's there. Where I need more data is when it's costing me multiple picks to go up. I want all my concerns assuaged in that case.


Which you won't get assauged until after they pick him and he plays - IF they pick him.


More circles- The Browns will know about him in a week than they do today. They'll know more about his ability to break down a defense, more about his true height and more about whether he can add bulk to his sprinters frame.

So some of those concerns can be assuaged in the next week. It won't obviously mean as much as when real bullets fly, but I'm dopey like that in that I want as much information as possible on a guy I'm potentially mortgaging my future on.

God I'm sick of this draft already. ;-) ;) :wink:


What information are YOU getting in the next week?

THEY may or may not have their concerns assauged this week. Plus, there'll be his Pro Day, and likely a pre-draft visit to Cleveland. But WE won't know about the results of those meetings.

WE won't have OUR concerns (if we have any) assauged until Training Camp. At least.

Right now, right this sec, you've got about as much info on RG3 as you're gonna get prior to the draft.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:20 pm

If he measures 6'2" and not 6'1 and 3/4" Peeks will be completely fine with RG3 and would probably even take him over Luck.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:32 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:Lock step on taking him at #4 if he's there. Where I need more data is when it's costing me multiple picks to go up. I want all my concerns assuaged in that case.


Which you won't get assauged until after they pick him and he plays - IF they pick him.


More circles- The Browns will know about him in a week than they do today. They'll know more about his ability to break down a defense, more about his true height and more about whether he can add bulk to his sprinters frame.

So some of those concerns can be assuaged in the next week. It won't obviously mean as much as when real bullets fly, but I'm dopey like that in that I want as much information as possible on a guy I'm potentially mortgaging my future on.

God I'm sick of this draft already. ;-) ;) :wink:


What information are YOU getting in the next week?



The Combine is this week. It's on NFL Network, NFLCombine.net and NFL.com. You can watch every second of it should you be so inclined. Some people who visit these boards can actually see what RG3 looks like for the first time ever. :hide:

I'll know exactly how tall he is, whether his frame will accommodate more weight/bulk, whether or not he impresses in the interview processes. Did he show up in great shape, were there any medical concerns, are his hands freakishly small like a carnie's, etc.

I'll know more than I do today. To assume you won't is ridiculous.

And we'll know more a month from now than a week from now. You go shoot your wad on the first whore in port, I'm looking around, seeing what's what. ;-) ;) :wink:

And dude, if you don't think you'll know more in a week than you do today then we should really just stop talking about it all together because you're just being obstinate about it then.

You guys realize you don't have to make the pick til the end of April right? If you're too dim to believe that gathering as much info as possible is the right course of action as opposed to being CNN and getting your pick out their first, well, you might actually have a future in a Dwight Clark-led front office. :nanner:

BTW- in talking to JTA a bit ago he suggested checking out video of Donovan McNabb's freshman year at Syracuse as an example of how a QB can add mass. Completely different guy in college vs NFL. The issue being RG3 clearly has a sprinters'/hurdlers' frame. Like to know whether he has the ability to bulk up some so he's not split like firewood the first time he takes a helmet to the chest from James Harrison. :salute:
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:37 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:If he measures 6'2" and not 6'1 and 3/4" Peeks will be completely fine with RG3 and would probably even take him over Luck.


Well, if he ain't closer to 6'0" than he is to 6'2" and if the consensus is he can and will read NFL defenses successfully, if he's medically fine and if he looks like he can physically withstand the punishment coming his way, I actually would consider him before Luck.

ALways been a case where his ceiling is higher. If you can raise his floor by eliminating some of my concerns? Why wouldn't I consider him before Luck?
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:49 pm

If he is an awful QB, doesn't he instantly become the best WR on the team?

Possibly still worth a #4?

Save me your route running pontifications 'cause they aint got no route runners now. At least RG is fast.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:53 pm

I'm not trying to be obstinate. I'm just flabbergasted that you seem to be thinking you can base your final opinion off the NFL Fucking Combine footage they show on the NFL Fucking Network.

Personally, I don't watch that horseshit b/c I don't care how many times he can bench press 225 or how he looks running through cones. I know how big his hands are because I have this thing called Google Images. I don't particularly care if he's 6'1.5 or 6'2, but even if I did I could just read about it.

If they aired the interviews, then THAT would be interesting. I'd watch that for sure.

But, for me, unless he blows out his ACL running his 40 or has crack in his piss, there is absolutely nothing of value that I - Joe Fan - can learn about RG3 from the stupid Combine.

Yes, circles and all that, we'll just need to agree to... I'm not sure if we're even disageeing? I guess we'll just need to agree to stop talking about this anymore.

You may even have the last word if you like.

PS - McNabb is a good example, I was actually looking for pics of him at Syracuse earlier, since he put on bulk between college and the NFL too.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:28 pm

Hikohadon wrote:I'm not trying to be obstinate. I'm just flabbergasted that you seem to be thinking you can base your final opinion off the NFL Fucking Combine footage they show on the NFL Fucking Network.

Personally, I don't watch that horseshit b/c I don't care how many times he can bench press 225 or how he looks running through cones. I know how big his hands are because I have this thing called Google Images. I don't particularly care if he's 6'1.5 or 6'2, but even if I did I could just read about it.

If they aired the interviews, then THAT would be interesting. I'd watch that for sure.

But, for me, unless he blows out his ACL running his 40 or has crack in his piss, there is absolutely nothing of value that I - Joe Fan - can learn about RG3 from the stupid Combine.

Yes, circles and all that, we'll just need to agree to... I'm not sure if we're even disageeing? I guess we'll just need to agree to stop talking about this anymore.

You may even have the last word if you like.

PS - McNabb is a good example, I was actually looking for pics of him at Syracuse earlier, since he put on bulk between college and the NFL too.


It's not my final opinion. It's more information than I had before. I don't see how that is difficult to comprehend. Why wouldn't you want those data points. If he showed up at the Combine 25 lbs overweight would that be a concern? If he runs a 4.65 is that a red flag. If this terrific athlete is middle of the pack in the 3-cone is there any warning that sends?

I want all the info I can get when we're talking about the face of the franchise and a guy you may have to give up multiple picks in the top 40 this year.

Shoot me.

:tfh:

Take a look at this from '98:



This is from '96:

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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:10 pm

mattvan1 wrote:My own personal bet - H&H stay put at #4; RGIII goes at #2. The Browns claim they "tried to move up" but EOD "with all of our needs, the price was too steep"


Which would be the right move.

And at the rate that the rest of the NFL appears to be over-investing in the QB position, within the next 2 drafts, if/when we still suck, we won't have much in the way of competition for Top 10 QB prospects, because everyone else will have already drafted theirs in the last 3 years.

Absolutely no reason to force anything.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:44 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:unless he blows out his ACL running his 40 or has crack in his piss


If he showed up at the Combine 25 lbs overweight would that be a concern? If he runs a 4.65 is that a red flag?


For our purposes, let's assume these mean the same.

If, however, he shows up at the same weight and same speed (as I think it is safe to expect), then there's not much info to glean.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Triple-S » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:05 pm

What I'd like to see is, if the Browns could pick up McNabb to either back up or "Start" (meaning the first 8 games), and show RG3 the ropes.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:11 pm

Triple-S wrote:What I'd like to see is, if the Browns could pick up McNabb to either back up or "Start" (meaning the first 8 games), and show RG3 the ropes.


SD:

have to disagree , I don't want that lazy Fuck anywhere near RG3 .

start him from the first minute in camp with the first team in a rotation , and by training camp as he progresses he gets 90% of the reps and starts September just like Newton and Dalton .

Let this offense gel together from the lineman to the receiving corp with every precious rep .


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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:54 pm

Agree with SD. The ship has sailed on the value that McNabb brings to the table. He oughtta just find himself a nice broadcasting job and be done with it.

If you bring in RG3, you start him Day 1.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby mattvan1 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:22 am

HoodooMan wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:My own personal bet - H&H stay put at #4; RGIII goes at #2. The Browns claim they "tried to move up" but EOD "with all of our needs, the price was too steep"


Which would be the right move.

And at the rate that the rest of the NFL appears to be over-investing in the QB position, within the next 2 drafts, if/when we still suck, we won't have much in the way of competition for Top 10 QB prospects, because everyone else will have already drafted theirs in the last 3 years.

Absolutely no reason to force anything.


Most likely correct - just depends on the cost to move up. If it's just the #4 and #22, then I would say do it. But I think the Rams will demand more and I'm afraid Dan Snyder will pay it.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby mattvan1 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:31 am

Hikohadon wrote:I'm not trying to be obstinate.


No need to try. You just are :hide:


Hikohadon wrote:Yes, circles and all that, we'll just need to agree to... I'm not sure if we're even disageeing? I guess we'll just need to agree to stop talking about this anymore.



That would make it pretty boring around here until the end of July............maybe we could rekindle the "Bob Lomonte Conspiracy Theory" discussion. That's always a lively one. :nanner:
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby jerryroche » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:04 am

I am so pissed off at myself this morning, for:
1) actually dreaming last night about the fucking NFL draft; and
2) my warped brain subconsciously coming up with this scenario:

When Colts re-sign P. Manning, they trade #1 pick to airhead Dan Snyder for #6, #38, #102 and first rounder next year. Washington selects Griffin III, who Snyder and Shanahan have coveted all along.
St. Louis trades #2 pick to Cleveland for #4, #22 and second-rounder next year. Heckgren grabs Luck.

I was watching the whole thing unfold on TV. Swear on my mother’s grave. I am an asshole, my brain is mush, and my life is not worth living. Anyone know a good shrink???
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Lubber » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:58 am

mattvan1 wrote:Most likely correct - just depends on the cost to move up. If it's just the #4 and #22, then I would say do it. But I think the Rams will demand more and I'm afraid Dan Snyder will pay it.


Matt, I agree with you that the Rams will demand more. They are in a sweet situation at #2, knowing that other teams (Washington, Cleveland, possibly Miami) need QB help and RG3 sitting right there for them. I can see them negotiating for sure 3 picks, possibly 4 because of the demand at that spot. They trade down a little and get Blackmon to join Bradford and Steven Jackson.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:03 am

Hikohadon wrote:You want a concern?

How about the concern we all should have if the Browns sit tight during Free Agency and fail to get RG3 in the draft.

Colt improves enough and has enough talent around him to get 6-8 wins the next couple years, good enough to move us safely out of Franchise QB range. Suddenly it's 2014 and we STILL have a steaming pile of mush at QB.

Scares the shit out of me.


This legitimately terrifies me, because it's a hella-likely scenario.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:16 pm

jerryroche wrote:I am so pissed off at myself this morning, for:
1) actually dreaming last night about the fucking NFL draft; and
2) my warped brain subconsciously coming up with this scenario:

When Colts re-sign P. Manning, they trade #1 pick to airhead Dan Snyder for #6, #38, #102 and first rounder next year. Washington selects Griffin III, who Snyder and Shanahan have coveted all along.
St. Louis trades #2 pick to Cleveland for #4, #22 and second-rounder next year. Heckgren grabs Luck.

I was watching the whole thing unfold on TV. Swear on my mother’s grave. I am an asshole, my brain is mush, and my life is not worth living. Anyone know a good shrink???


You should take this to a sportbook. I'm sure you'll get good odds, so you should be able to make a little dough on this premonition.
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