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Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

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Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:24 pm

Woooo! Boy is killing it out there.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:35 pm

17 point 4th Quarter and hits 2 super clutch free throws

Gee had 13 in the final period also
great effort to climb out of a 17 point deficit and win the game
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby swerb » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:44 pm

This Irving kid can play. My God.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby statmasta » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:34 pm

Kyrie seems to be nearly unstoppable in the 4th. This kid is just unreal.

I wish he was that aggressive in quarters 1-3, though, too. He plays so passively when the game's not on the line.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:36 pm

swerb wrote:This Irving kid can play. My God.


Can you even imagine how good he'll be for the Lakers or Knicks when he matures in 5 years?

Tick...tock...

Keep squeaking out those all important wins over the Kings and Pistons.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby statmasta » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:40 pm

peeker643 wrote:
swerb wrote:This Irving kid can play. My God.


Can you even imagine how good he'll be for the Lakers or Knicks when he matures in 5 years?

Tick...tock...

Keep squeaking out those all important wins over the Kings and Pistons.

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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:50 pm

They need to lose basketball games.

Y'all can get excited about narrow wins over shitty teams that does nothing except make keeping that talented kid a bit more difficult and a bit more justified when you can't surround him with talent.

Maybe we can dvr the thrilling win over the Kings and this one tonight and watch it down the road.

Rich is right: dude can play and does so without fear. You can enjoy that, appreciate it and still lose basketball games.

You better hope they start doing that if you care about the long term health of the club.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby GodHatesClevelandSport » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:59 pm

If if weren't for Jeremy Lin, Cavs would be the eighth seed right now.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby statmasta » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:59 pm

peeker643 wrote:They need to lose basketball games.

Y'all can get excited about narrow wins over shitty teams that does nothing except make keeping that talented kid a bit more difficult and a bit more justified when you can't surround him with talent.

Maybe we can dvr the thrilling win over the Kings and this one tonight and watch it down the road.

Rich is right: dude can play and does so without fear. You can enjoy that, appreciate it and still lose basketball games.

You better hope they start doing that if you care about the long term health of the club.

Rooting for them to lose won't actually make them any worse, so there's no reason to do so. I'll just enjoy the wins instead.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:06 am

Yeah, but then you're consciously rooting for and enjoying something that makes them demonstrably worse.

Therefore you're a shitty fan. (mooning)
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:20 am

peeker643 wrote:They need to lose basketball games.

Y'all can get excited about narrow wins over shitty teams that does nothing except make keeping that talented kid a bit more difficult and a bit more justified when you can't surround him with talent.

Maybe we can dvr the thrilling win over the Kings and this one tonight and watch it down the road.

Rich is right: dude can play and does so without fear. You can enjoy that, appreciate it and still lose basketball games.

You better hope they start doing that if you care about the long term health of the club.


Why is it difficult to understand that you can't ask a coach and in turn a coach can never ask or expect his players to shit away ball games.
We'd lose every player if that were the case. Everyone in the organisation knows it would be more beneficial for us to finish in the lottery but players are there to win and play well. We'd be the disgrace of basketball if we tank every game. How do you expect Irving and TT to progress if they are stifled but a losing mentality.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby pod2dawg » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:56 am

British_Pharaoh wrote: How do you expect Irving and TT to progress if they are stifled but a losing mentality.


Correct Pharaoh. We need learn what it's like to win. I hold out "hope" Irving would actually consider signing a long term deal here, attracting some free agents.......and I do want to miss the playoffs for draft order.

Scott ain't tanking, he's pissed off with his bulging temporal varicosities even when he wins.

My hat is off for the Irving pick. I had major reservations with his limited p/t at Duke, but the kid is a freakish talent and seems like a good guy too.

I promise not to buy his jersey.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby Prosecutor » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:46 am

Nobody needs to try to lose. All the organization needs to do for the long term benefit of the franchise is to trade Jamison and Sessions immediately (for draft picks) and they won't win five games the rest of the year. They really should have traded them already.

Sessions needs to be traded by March 15 since he'll be a free agent and won't be back. Jamison's contract is up and he wants to finish his career in his hometown of Charlotte.

Management has clearly decided to try and win as many games as possible this year despite the draft implications. The decision has been made and there's nothing the fans can do about it short of boycotting Cavs games to protest them winning too often. That's not going to happen, so we might as well enjoy the wins.

Last night's win almost was a loss when Gee and Erden got hurt in the 2nd quarter. It screwed up the rotation and the Cavs were outscored 26-14. Fortunately they both were able to return. Gee was huge with 16 pts, 11 boards, 3 assists, 2 steals, and only one turnover. I want to like Casspi, but the difference between him and Gee is night and day. Last night the Cavs were -13 with Casspi in the game; +14 with Gee. It's painful to watch Casspi chuck up bricks from the 3-point line and get stripped when he takes the ball into the paint. The worst was when he was alone under the basket for an easy dunk, but Rodney Stuckey (a guard!) came up from behind and cleanly blocked his dunk and grabbed the ball.

Great job in the 4th quarter as the Cavs scored 35 points with Casspi on the bench. Good job by Boobie as he forced a missed layup without commiting a foul in the final seconds with the Cavs up by 2.

Jamison had a great night with 32 points and 10 boards, but his 7 missed free throws almost cost them the game. They lost against Milwaukee because of his missed free throws. He really needs to clean that up - he's way off his career norm.

New Orleans lost in OT to Indiana last night and had to travel, so hopefully they'll be tired tonight. But like Detroit, they've been playing much better lately.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:35 am

Prosecutor wrote:Nobody needs to try to lose. All the organization needs to do for the long term benefit of the franchise is to trade Jamison and Sessions immediately (for draft picks) and they won't win five games the rest of the year. They really should have traded them already.

Sessions needs to be traded by March 15 since he'll be a free agent and won't be back. Jamison's contract is up and he wants to finish his career in his hometown of Charlotte.

Management has clearly decided to try and win as many games as possible this year despite the draft implications. The decision has been made and there's nothing the fans can do about it short of boycotting Cavs games to protest them winning too often. That's not going to happen, so we might as well enjoy the wins.

Last night's win almost was a loss when Gee and Erden got hurt in the 2nd quarter. It screwed up the rotation and the Cavs were outscored 26-14. Fortunately they both were able to return. Gee was huge with 16 pts, 11 boards, 3 assists, 2 steals, and only one turnover. I want to like Casspi, but the difference between him and Gee is night and day. Last night the Cavs were -13 with Casspi in the game; +14 with Gee. It's painful to watch Casspi chuck up bricks from the 3-point line and get stripped when he takes the ball into the paint. The worst was when he was alone under the basket for an easy dunk, but Rodney Stuckey (a guard!) came up from behind and cleanly blocked his dunk and grabbed the ball.

Great job in the 4th quarter as the Cavs scored 35 points with Casspi on the bench. Good job by Boobie as he forced a missed layup without commiting a foul in the final seconds with the Cavs up by 2.

Jamison had a great night with 32 points and 10 boards, but his 7 missed free throws almost cost them the game. They lost against Milwaukee because of his missed free throws. He really needs to clean that up - he's way off his career norm.

New Orleans lost in OT to Indiana last night and had to travel, so hopefully they'll be tired tonight. But like Detroit, they've been playing much better lately.



Even though it is obvious it needs to be done, it's going to suck to lose Sessions. He'll get a starting gig somewhere and be an absolute beast.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:39 am

British_Pharaoh wrote:
peeker643 wrote:They need to lose basketball games.

Y'all can get excited about narrow wins over shitty teams that does nothing except make keeping that talented kid a bit more difficult and a bit more justified when you can't surround him with talent.

Maybe we can dvr the thrilling win over the Kings and this one tonight and watch it down the road.

Rich is right: dude can play and does so without fear. You can enjoy that, appreciate it and still lose basketball games.

You better hope they start doing that if you care about the long term health of the club.


Why is it difficult to understand that you can't ask a coach and in turn a coach can never ask or expect his players to shit away ball games.
We'd lose every player if that were the case. Everyone in the organisation knows it would be more beneficial for us to finish in the lottery but players are there to win and play well. We'd be the disgrace of basketball if we tank every game. How do you expect Irving and TT to progress if they are stifled but a losing mentality.


You're kidding, right??

Kyrie needs to win with Hollins and Ehrden on the roster so he knows how to win?

Come on.

Charlotte was the 8th seed a couple years back. How'd that 'learning to win' thing work out for those young players? Would they have fewer than 4 wins this season had they missed the playoffs then?

Fuck that. You know what I've learned about winning? When you have better players you win. And you give yourself a better chance at better players by picking higher in the draft.

The Cavs won LBJ when they lost 65 games. They won Kyrie when the lost 65 games. If y'all don't see the handwriting on the wall then there's nothing I can do to change it.

And yes, the best and most honest way to do it is to trade your more valuable chips for picks. If you can get a 1st for Jamison and another for Sessions then do it. I don't care where in the 1st they are. Do it. And do it soon. Stockpile picks. You'll have the Heat and Kings pick at some point too in the next couple drafts. Those are leverage. Go get more.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby Kingpin74 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:44 am

peeker643 wrote:
You're kidding, right??

Kyrie needs to win with Hollins and Ehrden on the roster so he knows how to win?

Come on.

Charlotte was the 8th seed a couple years back. How'd that 'learning to win' thing work out for those young players? Would they have fewer than 4 wins this season had they missed the playoffs then?

Fuck that. You know what I've learned about winning? When you have better players you win. And you give yourself a better chance at better players by picking higher in the draft.

The Cavs won LBJ when they lost 65 games. They won Kyrie when the lost 65 games. If y'all don't see the handwriting on the wall then there's nothing I can do to change it.

And yes, the best and most honest way to do it is to trade your more valuable chips for picks. If you can get a 1st for Jamison and another for Sessions then do it. I don't care where in the 1st they are. Do it. And do it soon. Stockpile picks. You'll have the Heat and Kings pick at some point too in the next couple drafts. Those are leverage. Go get more.


Isn't this debate kind of pointless though? If you're saying Jamison and Sessions need to be traded yesterday, I wholeheartedly agree with you. But in the context of these games themselves, what's the difference in how fans with no control perceive them? What are we supposed to do, make them travel on an old prop plane like Rachel Phelps?
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:51 am

Ramon Sessions is going to set the record for number of times he was going to "breakout." First it was his Mil FA year, then it was with the T-Wolves, now it is with the Cavs...

Damn shame it never works out for the poor guy.

And the Cavs winning is on the FO, all anger should be aimed at them. If BP wants to write bullshit about winning culture and Pros wants to keep dropping novellas all the more to em, if Jameson and Sessions don't go (Andy keeps getting hurt and bailing them out) you can thank your fearless midget of a leader.

Also, TT is a bad basketball player, stop pretending like he is developing. Feel free to hope he develops in the future, but he is a really, really bad basketball player at this point.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:35 am

What Lee said. I have no issue with the guys on the floor going out and competing. That's what premier athletes do from the time they're old enough to play. Someone in the ivory tower needs to do what needs to be done though.

And my God, I follow waaaaay to many NBA/Cavs honks on Twitter and I don't follow more than 45 people. But for christ sake, every win is like a lot of these guys getting laid for the first time.

Jaded for sure... but if twitter existed and it was around back when LBJ was a rookie, this Kyrie love and adoration would be on par with that. I'm glad people are excited and they should be, but Kyrie isn't a top 20 talent or player in the league right now. James was the day he stepped on the floor.

Kyrie's gonna need a lot more help than LBJ ever did. Good news is he's open to that. Bad news is you have 5 more years to get it, shape it and win with it before he's looking elsewhere.

I know... I know... he's different. I got ya :lmfao:
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:38 am

If you build it he will stay... if not..... yeeeeeeeeeeah

and holy effin eff, Alonzo Gee is the second best long term piece on this team right now. ALONZO GEE.... SMH
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby Prosecutor » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:11 pm

Somebody tell me what's wrong with this plan. I'm sure it has flaws. Pile on, I don't care.

Cavs trade Jamison and Sessions ASAP to playoff teams for late 1st round picks, giving them three #1's in the next draft. Jamison got 32 and 10 last night, no better time to move him than now. Without Jamo and Ramon the Cavs lose out and end up with a top 10 pick to go along with the two they traded for at the bottom of the round. After the Jamison trade, force feed TT with 36 minutes per game and hope he develops into a poor man's Dennis Rodman.

Assuming Eric Gordon's knee surgery is successful and he passes a physical, Cavs take Eo's advice for just this once and overpay to acquire him. The guy had a great year playing with Chris Paul and now he gets a chance to play with a CP clone for the next few years. Why wouldn't he go for that, especially if it's the highest offer?

Cavs then use their top 10 pick on the best small forward available (so long, Casspi). They use the two late round picks on a center and point guard.

So the 2012-13 lineup is:

PG: Irving/late 1st round pick
SG: Gordon/Boobie
PF: Thompson/Samuels or free agent
SF: Top 10 pick/Gee
C: Andy/late 1st round pick

I'd pay $3 a game to watch that team on Season Pass.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby statmasta » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:35 pm

peeker643 wrote:
British_Pharaoh wrote:
peeker643 wrote:They need to lose basketball games.

Y'all can get excited about narrow wins over shitty teams that does nothing except make keeping that talented kid a bit more difficult and a bit more justified when you can't surround him with talent.

Maybe we can dvr the thrilling win over the Kings and this one tonight and watch it down the road.

Rich is right: dude can play and does so without fear. You can enjoy that, appreciate it and still lose basketball games.

You better hope they start doing that if you care about the long term health of the club.


Why is it difficult to understand that you can't ask a coach and in turn a coach can never ask or expect his players to shit away ball games.
We'd lose every player if that were the case. Everyone in the organisation knows it would be more beneficial for us to finish in the lottery but players are there to win and play well. We'd be the disgrace of basketball if we tank every game. How do you expect Irving and TT to progress if they are stifled but a losing mentality.


You're kidding, right??

Kyrie needs to win with Hollins and Ehrden on the roster so he knows how to win?

Come on.

Charlotte was the 8th seed a couple years back. How'd that 'learning to win' thing work out for those young players? Would they have fewer than 4 wins this season had they missed the playoffs then?

Fuck that. You know what I've learned about winning? When you have better players you win. And you give yourself a better chance at better players by picking higher in the draft.

The Cavs won LBJ when they lost 65 games. They won Kyrie when the lost 65 games. If y'all don't see the handwriting on the wall then there's nothing I can do to change it.

And yes, the best and most honest way to do it is to trade your more valuable chips for picks. If you can get a 1st for Jamison and another for Sessions then do it. I don't care where in the 1st they are. Do it. And do it soon. Stockpile picks. You'll have the Heat and Kings pick at some point too in the next couple drafts. Those are leverage. Go get more.

The Cavs are winning because of Kyrie. The Bobcats won because of Gerald Wallace and Tyson Chandler, players they no longer have.

The only way we'll lose often enough for your liking is by getting rid of Kyrie. You want to trade him? We'll surely lose then.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:37 pm

Tyson Chandler was still not healthy with the Bobcats and was very meh that year (that is how Dallas got him for free).

Wallace was dumped last year with virtually the same roster because the water even out and the suck shined through.

Stop pretending, getting eight seeds are bullshit in the NBA unless you have a young team with a lot of developing kids (Indy/Philly).

The Cavs have one developing kid, one sixth man candidate young SF and a TERRIBLE PF, that is their fucking core.

Stop pretending it isn't.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby statmasta » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:42 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Tyson Chandler was still not healthy with the Bobcats and was very meh that year (that is how Dallas got him for free).

Wallace was dumped last year with virtually the same roster because the water even out and the suck shined through.

Stop pretending, getting eight seeds are bullshit in the NBA unless you have a young team with a lot of developing kids (Indy/Philly).

The Cavs have one developing kid, one sixth man candidate young SF and a TERRIBLE PF, that is their fucking core.

Stop pretending it isn't.

I never said I want the 8th seed. My point was Charlotte's young players aren't the reason they won. They won because of veterans they no longer have. They got this bad by dumping the vets. But for the Cavs, the only way we'll start losing is by trading the players keeping us afloat....Kyrie Irving, Alonzo Gee, and Antawn Jamison. Trade Antawn? Sure. How about Irving and Gee? Irving alone is going to carry this team to a bunch of victories. Do you just want to bench him until 2015 when we have more talent?
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:43 pm

Yes, if the Cavs went into this season without Jameson, Session and Andy they would still have the same record they have now.

WTF is your point beyond stupid and false?
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby statmasta » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:48 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Yes, if the Cavs went into this season without Jameson, Session and Andy they would still have the same record they have now.

WTF is your point beyond stupid and false?

I didn't say that.

I'm all for trading vets not a part of the future (Varejao should be a part of the future, though).

The front office should try to gut the unnecessary talent to lose, I agree. But getting upset because Kyrie Irving and Alonzo Gee absolutely dominate a game and win is just silly. What did you want them to do, just throw up bricks? Were you rooting for Irving to go 0-10 in the 4th? Do you cheer when Irving misses shots late in close games so we lose?
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:00 pm

If Jameson doesn't go for 32 and 10 they lose last night, period.

And Andy has no future on a team that draft a black hole athlete to play the four. The FO crushed his value the minute they invested in Tristan "I shoot 42% from the field and the line!!" Thompson.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:08 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:If Jameson doesn't go for 32 and 10 they lose last night, period.

And Andy has no future on a team that draft a black hole athlete to play the four. The FO crushed his value the minute they invested in Tristan "I shoot 42% from the field and the line!!" Thompson.


Stop. Have you not seen Tristan Thompson jump? Why do you always ignore that he can jump and hustle?

Hater.

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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:10 pm

Biyombo is getting better every week while TT is mired in suck.

That's what happens when you go for a pure athletic project and don't even draft the best option.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby pod2dawg » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:14 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:If Jameson doesn't go for 32 and 10 they lose last night, period.

And Andy has no future on a team that draft a black hole athlete to play the four. The FO crushed his value the minute they invested in Tristan "I shoot 42% from the field and the line!!" Thompson.


:lmfao: OK ei, ei yO. We all concur TT ain't the bag of chips we had hoped and we flushed on that one. He isn't hideous, just not a serviceable NBA 4.

I can't wait to hear your "critique" of Sullinger. I am afraid we caught a glimpse when MSU manned up and beat him up. It gets beefier in the "Association."
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:18 pm

Sullinger is an unathletic pussy that will be a servicable rotation player but never a star.

Wishes he was Milsap.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:40 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Sullinger is an unathletic pussy that will be a servicable rotation player but never a star.

Wishes he was Milsap.


If Sullinger can't/doesn't hit the open baseline 15' shot I don't know if he's even a serviceable rotation player. To me, and I have nothing against the guy, you just hit his upside. I think it's likely he's less than that although there's a lot of wiggle room in "serviceable".
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby statmasta » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:50 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:If Jameson doesn't go for 32 and 10 they lose last night, period.

And Andy has no future on a team that draft a black hole athlete to play the four. The FO crushed his value the minute they invested in Tristan "I shoot 42% from the field and the line!!" Thompson.

So then why are you so hell bent on getting another high pick? There's a good chance they'll land another near-worthless player like Tristan Thompson instead of a guy like Kevin Love.

I know another high pick would be nice, but 1) Sucking enough to get such a high pick might be a sign that our team isn't good enough to be turned into a contender by 1 (or 2) high picks. And 2) There's a good chance the guy we'd draft wouldn't be a difference maker (like Tristan Thompson).


I know we all just want the Cavs to be as good as possible in the future, but being upset at wins serves no purpose. Lighten up, enjoy good things while you can. Losses are never enjoyable, and you're getting pissed at wins? That sounds like no fun at all.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby statmasta » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:53 pm

peeker643 wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Sullinger is an unathletic pussy that will be a servicable rotation player but never a star.

Wishes he was Milsap.


If Sullinger can't/doesn't hit the open baseline 15' shot I don't know if he's even a serviceable rotation player. To me, and I have nothing against the guy, you just hit his upside. I think it's likely he's less than that although there's a lot of wiggle room in "serviceable".

I thought the same thing about Kevin Love in college. Undersized, unathletic 4 in college who was a smooth low post player but didn't seem to have the athleticism to be a good scorer or rebounder in the NBA.

And then he changed his game at the next level and became a finesse player and an outside shooter. Jared Sullinger needs to do the same thing. He can shoot from the outside, he just doesn't. If he can make his game mimick Kevin Love's, he'll have a much higher ceiling. If he settles for just trying to score inside and doesn't expand his game, he'll just be a decent rotation player.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:54 pm

Last year's draft was terrible.

This year's is not.

Stop being stupid.

Every quality team in the league that contends for the playoffs was built through the draft outside of NYC and LA.

It's the only way.

And you can get excited about mediocre teams, I'm not. There are for more entertaining mediocre teams in the league I would rather spend my time watching. Getting excited about this young core, which is amongst the worst in the league WITH KYRIE is, well, a sign you a pretty effin stupid.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby statmasta » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:54 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Biyombo is getting better every week while TT is mired in suck.

That's what happens when you go for a pure athletic project and don't even draft the best option.

I thought Thompson was a trainwreck from the start. All 6'9" athletic PFs with limited skill like him are busts. Stromile Swift, Tyrus Thomas, Tristan Thompson. All the same player, all suck.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby statmasta » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:56 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Last year's draft was terrible.

This year's is not.

Stop being stupid.

Every quality team in the league that contends for the playoffs was built through the draft outside of NYC and LA.

It's the only way.

And you can get excited about mediocre teams, I'm not. There are for more entertaining mediocre teams in the league I would rather spend my time watching. Getting excited about this young core, which is amongst the worst in the league WITH KYRIE is, well, a sign you a pretty effin stupid.

Why do you keep putting words in my mouth? Who said I was excited about mediocre teams?

Nice strawman arguments.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:00 pm

statmasta wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Sullinger is an unathletic pussy that will be a servicable rotation player but never a star.

Wishes he was Milsap.


If Sullinger can't/doesn't hit the open baseline 15' shot I don't know if he's even a serviceable rotation player. To me, and I have nothing against the guy, you just hit his upside. I think it's likely he's less than that although there's a lot of wiggle room in "serviceable".

I thought the same thing about Kevin Love in college. Undersized, unathletic 4 in college who was a smooth low post player but didn't seem to have the athleticism to be a good scorer or rebounder in the NBA.

And then he changed his game at the next level and became a finesse player and an outside shooter. Jared Sullinger needs to do the same thing. He can shoot from the outside, he just doesn't. If he can make his game mimick Kevin Love's, he'll have a much higher ceiling. If he settles for just trying to score inside and doesn't expand his game, he'll just be a decent rotation player.


No, just fucking no, just go away and stop posting.

Sullinger is about as like Kevin Love as I am Kyrie Irving. There is NOTHING similar between their games. Like zero. Kevin Love has always had an EXTREMELY unique skill set and the question was a matter if that UNIQUE set of skills would translate or not, it did.

Sullinger is the mehest of meh and is elite or unique in no ways.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:03 pm

Frankly what do you want then? Not a high-pick? More shitty wins that hurt draft position because they have vets on this team they shouldn't have? A marquee FA?

Stop fucking talking about not tanking like it is a nice alternative if you aren't advocating for mediocrity, they are one in the same.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby Orenthal » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:03 pm

statmasta wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Tyson Chandler was still not healthy with the Bobcats and was very meh that year (that is how Dallas got him for free).

Wallace was dumped last year with virtually the same roster because the water even out and the suck shined through.

Stop pretending, getting eight seeds are bullshit in the NBA unless you have a young team with a lot of developing kids (Indy/Philly).

The Cavs have one developing kid, one sixth man candidate young SF and a TERRIBLE PF, that is their fucking core.

Stop pretending it isn't.

I never said I want the 8th seed. My point was Charlotte's young players aren't the reason they won. They won because of veterans they no longer have. They got this bad by dumping the vets. But for the Cavs, the only way we'll start losing is by trading the players keeping us afloat....Kyrie Irving, Alonzo Gee, and Antawn Jamison. Trade Antawn? Sure. How about Irving and Gee? Irving alone is going to carry this team to a bunch of victories. Do you just want to bench him until 2015 when we have more talent?


Holy shit there is a massive difference in value between Jamo and Irving. While they may be equal contributors on the Cavaliers at this very moment at no point should they be in the same thought going forward.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby Orenthal » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:08 pm

DUDE NORRIS COLE WENT LATE FIRST.

TT is what he is, only his "is eager to learn" mentality may save him from being second big off the bench on a quality team.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby statmasta » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:13 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:
statmasta wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Sullinger is an unathletic pussy that will be a servicable rotation player but never a star.

Wishes he was Milsap.


If Sullinger can't/doesn't hit the open baseline 15' shot I don't know if he's even a serviceable rotation player. To me, and I have nothing against the guy, you just hit his upside. I think it's likely he's less than that although there's a lot of wiggle room in "serviceable".

I thought the same thing about Kevin Love in college. Undersized, unathletic 4 in college who was a smooth low post player but didn't seem to have the athleticism to be a good scorer or rebounder in the NBA.

And then he changed his game at the next level and became a finesse player and an outside shooter. Jared Sullinger needs to do the same thing. He can shoot from the outside, he just doesn't. If he can make his game mimick Kevin Love's, he'll have a much higher ceiling. If he settles for just trying to score inside and doesn't expand his game, he'll just be a decent rotation player.


No, just fucking no, just go away and stop posting.

Sullinger is about as like Kevin Love as I am Kyrie Irving. There is NOTHING similar between their games. Like zero. Kevin Love has always had an EXTREMELY unique skill set and the question was a matter if that UNIQUE set of skills would translate or not, it did.

Sullinger is the mehest of meh and is elite or unique in no ways.

1) Why are you so upset? You can't debate without telling somebody to go away?

2) I'm sure you thought the same thing when Love was putting up IDENTICAL numbers to Sullinger in college.

Sullinger: 6'9", 260. Love: 6'10", 260. Both are unathletic with limited leaping ability. Both put up 17/10 in college. Sullinger's shooting 55% from the field in his career, he's shooting 36% from 3pt range. Kevin Love shot 56% from the field in his career, and he shot 35% from 3pt range. Sullinger's shooting 72% from the line, Love shot 76% from the line. Jared Sullinger comparison according to nbadraft.net? Kevin Love http://www.nbadraft.net/players/jared-sullinger

But yeah, they're COMPLETELY different. Of course. Not alike at all. Sure.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby Orenthal » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:14 pm

Let's slow down on TT v BB since um, they both blow at this point. His "trend" is absolutely TT esque. Anyway HAL is rocking today, to $50!
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby statmasta » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:15 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Frankly what do you want then? Not a high-pick? More shitty wins that hurt draft position because they have vets on this team they shouldn't have? A marquee FA?

Stop fucking talking about not tanking like it is a nice alternative if you aren't advocating for mediocrity, they are one in the same.

Of course I want a high pick.

What I'm saying is melting down after wins serves absolutely no purpose. Losing is never fun, and you're pissed off after wins. Being miserable all the time doesn't make the team anymore likely to actually suck more. So you might as well just enjoy the wins and stop bitching.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:18 pm

No one is melting down, I don't care aside from that fact that it gives me one more reason to laugh at Gilbert for being a schmuk.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:22 pm

Orenthal wrote:Let's slow down on TT v BB since um, they both blow at this point. His "trend" is absolutely TT esque. Anyway HAL is rocking today, to $50!


Biyombo's February has been markedly trending upward, TT has not.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:24 pm

Yes, stat, you are the only fucking moron in existence (please go read a single Scouting report on Sullinger and Love from age 15 on up) that is going to compare two entirely different players.

They are not similar in any way.

Not even in the slightest tiny bit.

Skill-sets are skill-sets.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby Kingpin74 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:24 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:
Orenthal wrote:Let's slow down on TT v BB since um, they both blow at this point. His "trend" is absolutely TT esque. Anyway HAL is rocking today, to $50!


Biyombo's February has been markedly trending upward, TT has not.


Any update on how Valanciunas is playing in Europe? I'm still angry about that one, only would have been a 4 month wait in a season where we needed to stink anyway.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:25 pm

And we already have Pros shitting all over this forum, frankly why in the fuck do we have to read you too now? Stop staying stupid shit and I'll stop telling you to go the fuck away.

Sullinger comp'd to Love, shoot me in the fucking face for even having been forced to read that.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby statmasta » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:48 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Yes, stat, you are the only fucking moron in existence (please go read a single Scouting report on Sullinger and Love from age 15 on up) that is going to compare two entirely different players.

They are not similar in any way.

Not even in the slightest tiny bit.

Skill-sets are skill-sets.

Other than the scouting report I just posted that compared the two. Yeah, if you ignore all the similarities, then they're completely different.
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Re: Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

Unread postby Prosecutor » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:54 pm

I'm higher on Thompson than most. The biggest knock seems to be his offense, but on a per minute basis he's scoring more than Varajao, Gibson, and Gee. I know he has no moves and can't shoot, but somehow he's scoring 6.8 points per 18.1 minutes, which puts him behind only KI and Jamison. Sorry, those are the numbers.

Are they projectable? Well, the other night he got to play 30 minutes and scored 16 points, so maybe they are. We'll see.

Defensively he leads the team in blocks by a huge margin. I wish they had a statistic for defensive stops because I think he's doing well in that area, too.

For example, last night the Cavs were making their late game run and the Pistons got the ball to Greg Monroe, their leading scorer on the season. He was isolated against TT and tried to drive baseline, but TT was quick enough (unlike Hollins or Erden) to cut him off. Monroe dribbled off his foot out of bounds and the Cavs momentum continued.

That's one isolated play, but I've seen TT use his quickness, length, and jumping ability to force a lot of missed shots this year, and without fouling. IMO he has the potential to be an elite defender because he has the strength, quick feet, and jumping ability to defend bigs and also to switch off the bigs and swat layups.

As for rebounding, he's behind only Andy in rebounds per minute. When he learns to be more selective and not try to block every shot, he'll get more boards.

The kid is 20 years old with one year of college experience and really doesn't know what he's doing most the time, but he's already a contributor and his upside in terms of defense and rebounding is very high. He's raw and makes mistakes, but describing him as a black hole is a bit extreme, IMO. The ankle injury set him back temporarily, but he seems to be getting back on track as evidenced by his game against the Kings the other night.

The key for the Cavs is to get a scorer at the off guard and small forward positions to they don't need TT to do any more offensively than hit the glass and finish off dribble penetration.
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