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Kipers Mock 2.0

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Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:22 pm

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft201 ... draft-year

Supposed to be insider but it isn't locked so I'm posting it.

And if this happened I think the majority of Clevleand would simultaneously orgasm.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:38 pm

That truly is orgasmic.

Are you able to tell who he had us take at 22 since we were able to keep all our picks and still get RG3?
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:50 pm

Hikohadon wrote:That truly is orgasmic.

Are you able to tell who he had us take at 22 since we were able to keep all our picks and still get RG3?


It should be in there. He had the Browns selecting Kendall Wright, the WR from Baylor at #22.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:19 pm

I only got the top 5 without signing in (which I cannot do).

Kendall Wright, exactly the kind of WR the Browns need, comes in with his college QB, giving both a sense of comfort. You get your (hopeful) franchise QB and #1 WR in one round, breathing all kinds of new life into your woeful offense.

T-Minus 30 seconds until someone loses their shit over the fact that this draft will have the Browns last 3 first rounders all coming from football powerhouse Baylor. 29... 28...
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:23 pm

Hikohadon wrote:I only got the top 5 without signing in (which I cannot do).

Kendall Wright, exactly the kind of WR the Browns need, comes in with his college QB, giving both a sense of comfort. You get your (hopeful) franchise QB and #1 WR in one round, breathing all kinds of new life into your woeful offense.

T-Minus 30 seconds until someone loses their shit over the fact that this draft will have the Browns last 3 first rounders all coming from football powerhouse Baylor. 29... 28...



Sorry- I didn't have to sign in for the Insider story. Maybe they realized they had made an error on it and locked it down.

I get ESPN the Mag so I have insider access (that and $4 get you a nice Venti Dark Roast at Starbucks). If you have questions on the mock I can answer them.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Triple-S » Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:56 pm

If it takes getting rid of that 2nd first round pick to move up and nab this guy, then I'd be in full support of it.

I'm kind of hoping though, STL is just bullshitting, sticks with Bradford, and Minnesota sticks with Ponder (who showed some promise).

Hope to god that Miami nabs Flynn, and Peyton ends his career with 'Skins. That'd be ideal.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby bookelly » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:47 pm

Triple-S wrote:If it takes getting rid of that 2nd first round pick to move up and nab this guy, then I'd be in full support of it.

I'm kind of hoping though, STL is just bullshitting, sticks with Bradford, and Minnesota sticks with Ponder (who showed some promise).

Hope to god that Miami nabs Flynn, and Peyton ends his career with 'Skins. That'd be ideal.


Fins have $13 Mil in cap room. Skins have $10. I'm not sure either has the cash to sign Manning or Flynn. Though that would be the best outcome for the Browns for sure.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Triple-S » Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:24 pm

Does that work to our disadvantage with the new rookie cap in place?

BTW, NFL Life yesterday kept insisting that Mario Williams should go to the Inbred. How he'd get there when the Rooneys A.) Generally don't bring big name FA's, And B.) Are in Cap Hell atm amazes me.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby CleSportsTruth » Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:41 pm

peeker643 wrote:http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7575960/mel-kiper-second-mock-draft-year

Supposed to be insider but it isn't locked so I'm posting it.

And if this happened I think the majority of Clevleand would simultaneously orgasm.


I question this last assumption. I think we underestimate the stubborn/"resilient" degree of Colt support in this town. I'd love to see a scientific poll done of NE Ohio. I'd guess it'd be close to 50-50 on the Colt v. non-Colt as starter question, with the Colt supporters outnumbering the rest of us. I'd also be intrigued as to the racial breakdown on that too, but that's not gonna happen.

H=ll, I had someone four yrs. ago tell me we'd regret dumping Chuck Frye. Never underestimate the stupid loyalty in this town. ::doh::
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:53 pm

CleSportsTruth wrote:I think we underestimate the stubborn/"resilient" degree of Colt support in this town. I'd love to see a scientific poll done of NE Ohio. I'd guess it'd be close to 50-50 on the Colt v. non-Colt as starter question, with the Colt supporters outnumbering the rest of us. I'd also be intrigued as to the racial breakdown on that too, but that's not gonna happen.

H=ll, I had someone four yrs. ago tell me we'd regret dumping Chuck Frye. Never underestimate the stupid loyalty in this town. ::doh::


Amen to that. I slip into thinking it doesn't exist b/c I don't see it here, but then I listen to 92.3 or KNR and there are an alarming amount of "if we do this, this, this, this, and this, then we can get by with Colt" calls.

As if "getting by" were the freakin' goal.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:55 pm

CleSportsTruth wrote:
peeker643 wrote:http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7575960/mel-kiper-second-mock-draft-year

Supposed to be insider but it isn't locked so I'm posting it.

And if this happened I think the majority of Clevleand would simultaneously orgasm.


I question this last assumption. I think we underestimate the stubborn/"resilient" degree of Colt support in this town. I'd love to see a scientific poll done of NE Ohio. I'd guess it'd be close to 50-50 on the Colt v. non-Colt as starter question, with the Colt supporters outnumbering the rest of us. I'd also be intrigued as to the racial breakdown on that too, but that's not gonna happen.

H=ll, I had someone four yrs. ago tell me we'd regret dumping Chuck Frye. Never underestimate the stupid loyalty in this town. ::doh::


I wondered when I posted that if there would be any discussion on that aspect. I know there are people who are still pro-Colt, but I think once the RGIII hype machine went full throttle that they'd be jumping off the Colt bandwagon. Add in the Baylor WR pick and people would be, for the most part, geeked up and convinced of the fact that a playoff appearance was around the corner.

YMMV
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:57 pm

peeker643 wrote:
CleSportsTruth wrote:
peeker643 wrote:http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7575960/mel-kiper-second-mock-draft-year

Supposed to be insider but it isn't locked so I'm posting it.

And if this happened I think the majority of Clevleand would simultaneously orgasm.


I question this last assumption. I think we underestimate the stubborn/"resilient" degree of Colt support in this town. I'd love to see a scientific poll done of NE Ohio. I'd guess it'd be close to 50-50 on the Colt v. non-Colt as starter question, with the Colt supporters outnumbering the rest of us. I'd also be intrigued as to the racial breakdown on that too, but that's not gonna happen.

H=ll, I had someone four yrs. ago tell me we'd regret dumping Chuck Frye. Never underestimate the stupid loyalty in this town. ::doh::


I wondered when I posted that if there would be any discussion on that aspect. I know there are people who are still pro-Colt, but I think once the RGIII hype machine went full throttle that they'd be jumping off the Colt bandwagon. Add in the Baylor WR pick and people would be, for the most part, geeked up and convinced of the fact that a playoff appearance was around the corner.

YMMV


It would take all of one Preseason game for the Pro-Colt crowd to STFU forever.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby CleSportsTruth » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:05 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
CleSportsTruth wrote:I think we underestimate the stubborn/"resilient" degree of Colt support in this town. I'd love to see a scientific poll done of NE Ohio. I'd guess it'd be close to 50-50 on the Colt v. non-Colt as starter question, with the Colt supporters outnumbering the rest of us. I'd also be intrigued as to the racial breakdown on that too, but that's not gonna happen.

H=ll, I had someone four yrs. ago tell me we'd regret dumping Chuck Frye. Never underestimate the stupid loyalty in this town. ::doh::


Amen to that. I slip into thinking it doesn't exist b/c I don't see it here, but then I listen to 92.3 or KNR and there are an alarming amount of "if we do this, this, this, this, and this, then we can get by with Colt" calls.

As if "getting by" were the freakin' goal.


Yep. I'm a KNR guy, and I just shake my head at the Colt fans. Notice they have no POSITIVE argument for him (like, name one thing he does well), just that it's everyone else's fault.

Still, the Colt fans are far more numerous than we'd like to think. Maybe Couch and Quinn have made them gunshy, maybe Colt's "won the press conference" enough for these folks or they've convinced themselves we need to fix other spots first. Either way, there are a ton of them out there.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby CleSportsTruth » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:08 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
CleSportsTruth wrote:
peeker643 wrote:http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7575960/mel-kiper-second-mock-draft-year

Supposed to be insider but it isn't locked so I'm posting it.

And if this happened I think the majority of Clevleand would simultaneously orgasm.


I question this last assumption. I think we underestimate the stubborn/"resilient" degree of Colt support in this town. I'd love to see a scientific poll done of NE Ohio. I'd guess it'd be close to 50-50 on the Colt v. non-Colt as starter question, with the Colt supporters outnumbering the rest of us. I'd also be intrigued as to the racial breakdown on that too, but that's not gonna happen.

H=ll, I had someone four yrs. ago tell me we'd regret dumping Chuck Frye. Never underestimate the stupid loyalty in this town. ::doh::


I wondered when I posted that if there would be any discussion on that aspect. I know there are people who are still pro-Colt, but I think once the RGIII hype machine went full throttle that they'd be jumping off the Colt bandwagon. Add in the Baylor WR pick and people would be, for the most part, geeked up and convinced of the fact that a playoff appearance was around the corner.

YMMV


It would take all of one Preseason game for the Pro-Colt crowd to STFU forever.


And Colt supporters will point out "Colt looked great last preseason too!" Sure, it damns their own guy, but we're almost beyond logic with some. :bunny:
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:18 pm

I enjoy this combination of things:

1) Mock drafts, at their very best, projecting, what, about 1 out of 5 things accurately?

2) Draft geeks still taking mock drafts seriously.

3) Draft geeks refusing to take mock drafts seriously when they also include trade projections, because, "How can you project that!"

So we're left with mock drafts projecting RG3 to fall to us at 4 when very, very few people seem to think there's any chance of that happening.

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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby swerb » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:37 pm

I can't see any way RG3 doesn't go #2 to someone. I do feel like there's a good chance its us though that moves up to #2. All the "stay the course" and "it took us a while in GB and SEA" talk aside, I think Walrus is really starting to feel the pressure, and that he also knows drafting RG3 buys his boy Shur another couple years.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:38 pm

peeker643 wrote:
CleSportsTruth wrote:
peeker643 wrote:http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7575960/mel-kiper-second-mock-draft-year

Supposed to be insider but it isn't locked so I'm posting it.

And if this happened I think the majority of Clevleand would simultaneously orgasm.


I question this last assumption. I think we underestimate the stubborn/"resilient" degree of Colt support in this town. I'd love to see a scientific poll done of NE Ohio. I'd guess it'd be close to 50-50 on the Colt v. non-Colt as starter question, with the Colt supporters outnumbering the rest of us. I'd also be intrigued as to the racial breakdown on that too, but that's not gonna happen.

H=ll, I had someone four yrs. ago tell me we'd regret dumping Chuck Frye. Never underestimate the stupid loyalty in this town. ::doh::


I wondered when I posted that if there would be any discussion on that aspect. I know there are people who are still pro-Colt, but I think once the RGIII hype machine went full throttle that they'd be jumping off the Colt bandwagon. Add in the Baylor WR pick and people would be, for the most part, geeked up and convinced of the fact that a playoff appearance was around the corner.

YMMV


The chances of Wright lasting till the 22nd pick is becoming less likely than RG sitting there at 4

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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:44 pm

swerb wrote:I can't see any way RG3 doesn't go #2 to someone. I do feel like there's a good chance its us though that moves up to #2. All the "stay the course" and "it took us a while in GB and SEA" talk aside, I think Walrus is really starting to feel the pressure, and that he also knows drafting RG3 buys his boy Shur another couple years.


If we were willing to deal two 1s & a 2 & more for Bradford, I don't know why we'd hesitate to pay just as much for RG3, if we like him and it's necessary.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby pup » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:57 pm

Have to start pumping the fear that we will take Kalis at #4 is Griffin is gone. And if Minnesota takes him, we will take Reilly. Make sure St. Louis knows the are not getting LT or WR answered if they go all the way down to Miami.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:51 am

swerb wrote:I can't see any way RG3 doesn't go #2 to someone. I do feel like there's a good chance its us though that moves up to #2. All the "stay the course" and "it took us a while in GB and SEA" talk aside, I think Walrus is really starting to feel the pressure, and that he also knows drafting RG3 buys his boy Shur another couple years.


Yes.

He'll be the number two pick, without question.

Especially when you begin to realize that Peyton Manning at this point is a faaaaaaaarrrr bigger gamble then RG3. Guys not gonna play anytime soon. Sometime around never ILO.

In weeks coming there will be more talk about drafting RG3 number one overall, than even thinking he's gonna fall elsewhere. Hell, at this point all there is are workouts and interviews - guy is gonna knock it out of the park in both areas.

You want him, you're gonna have to go get him.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby jb » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:54 am

Hikohadon wrote:Kendall Wright, exactly the kind of WR the Browns need, comes in with his college QB, giving both a sense of comfort.




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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:35 pm

HoodooMan wrote:I enjoy this combination of things:

1) Mock drafts, at their very best, projecting, what, about 1 out of 5 things accurately?

2) Draft geeks still taking mock drafts seriously.

3) Draft geeks refusing to take mock drafts seriously when they also include trade projections, because, "How can you project that!"

So we're left with mock drafts projecting RG3 to fall to us at 4 when very, very few people seem to think there's any chance of that happening.

^The most meaningless principled stand since the last time an ESPN announcer refused to pick a game he was scheduled to announce.


I myself generally have great disdain for mockers that put mock trades in their mock drafts, since you're taking something with a low accuracy anyway and just making it ridiculous by making shit up.

But in this instance, it's hard to see someone not trading to #2, so if you feel that it is VERY likely to happen, then you mock it into your mock.

But Mel's got morals, I guess.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:28 pm

leadpipe wrote:Hell, at this point all there is are workouts and interviews - guy is gonna knock it out of the park in both areas.


When he runs a 4.2 and throws it through the roof of the big oil drum, there'll be serious talk of him as #1.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby motherscratcher » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:13 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:
leadpipe wrote:Hell, at this point all there is are workouts and interviews - guy is gonna knock it out of the park in both areas.


When he runs a 4.2 and throws it through the roof of the big oil drum, there'll be serious talk of him as #1.


Even if there is, it doesn't matter. There was also talk of Durant going ahead of Oden. But for reasons I'm still not sure I completely understand, it just couldn't happen.

Luck over RG3 has that same feeling for me. Even if Indy decides they like RG3 better, they'll still take Luck. They have to. It's a foregone conclusion.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:00 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
Erie Warrior wrote:
leadpipe wrote:Hell, at this point all there is are workouts and interviews - guy is gonna knock it out of the park in both areas.


When he runs a 4.2 and throws it through the roof of the big oil drum, there'll be serious talk of him as #1.


Even if there is, it doesn't matter. There was also talk of Durant going ahead of Oden. But for reasons I'm still not sure I completely understand, it just couldn't happen.

Luck over RG3 has that same feeling for me. Even if Indy decides they like RG3 better, they'll still take Luck. They have to. It's a foregone conclusion.


The physical skills combined with the intelligense, and how he'll interview. If you're rooling the dice on a franchise guy, it's nice to have confidence in the smarts of who stands in front of the podium each week to represent.

And I agree scratcher, he's not going one - but he has as good a chance as going one as four - next to nothing.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby jb » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:05 am

Erie Warrior wrote:
leadpipe wrote:Hell, at this point all there is are workouts and interviews - guy is gonna knock it out of the park in both areas.


When he runs a 4.2 and throws it through the roof of the big oil drum, there'll be serious talk of him as #1.



The he get measured at 6'1" and he falls to us at 4.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Prosecutor » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:14 am

With regard to Colt, first impressions are powerful. Colt made a great first impression by playing surprisingly well against the Steelers in his first pro start despite only three days of practice as the #1. He followed that up by beating the Patriots and Saints. At this point most Browns fans, including me, were thinking "He doesn't look that impressive but we can win with this guy". The same thing we said about Sipe and Kosar.

It's not easy to admit that's not the case, especially since it would be so nice to have the QB problem solved so we can use ALL the draft picks and cap space to add speed and playmakers on both sides of the ball. Which is why there's a solid argument to sign Flynn, or Kolb if he's released.

Assuming Flynn ends up in Miami, it's questionable whether Holmgren will approve a move up to #2 considering the cost. His philosophy is to either trade for another team's backup (Hasselbeck, Favre) or draft a mid-round project (McCoy) every year until you hit on somebody. They talked about wanting to accumulate extra picks because there were so many holes to fill. It seems unlikely they would sacrifice picks to trade up for RG3 even if they did not get a QB in free agency.

However, someone made an excellent point in that Holmgren offered a very rich package of picks for Sam Bradford, so it's not like he's opposed to paying up for what he considers to be a can't miss blue chip QB. If he would do it for Bradford, why not Griffin, who probably has even more upside?

The final piece is that he's moving into Year 3 of a five year contract and has only 9 wins to show for it. He has to be feeling some urgency. Also, the success of rookie QBs like Newton, Dalton, Flacco, Ryan, Roethlisberger and others the last few years has to be changing some attitudes about how long it will take a blue chip prospect to start contributing.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby mattvan1 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:06 am

Prosecutor wrote:With regard to Colt, first impressions are powerful. Colt made a great first impression by playing surprisingly well against the Steelers in his first pro start despite only three days of practice as the #1. He followed that up by beating the Patriots and Saints. At this point most Browns fans, including me, were thinking "He doesn't look that impressive but we can win with this guy". The same thing we said about Sipe and Kosar.


Uh, what do you mean we kemosabe? You're simply revising history to make your point. Please stop.

Kosar threw for almost 4k and the team went 12-4 in his second year. Let me know when Colt gets close to that level of "doesn't look impressive"
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:16 am

You don't post about college sports, right Pros? Cause I'm really getting tired of scrolling over your novellas.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:23 am

Listening to all the LeBron bullshit the last couple days, I can't help but wonder if some Clevelanders aren't afraid of having a guy with superstar potential because of the potential heartache.

Stick with nice, safe, mediocre QB that won't leave you (because there's no demand for him).
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby pup » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:50 am

e0y2e3 wrote:You don't post about college sports, right Pros? Cause I'm really getting tired of scrolling over your novellas.


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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:56 am

Hikohadon wrote:Listening to all the LeBron bullshit the last couple days, I can't help but wonder if some Clevelanders aren't afraid of having a guy with superstar potential because of the potential heartache.

Stick with nice, safe, mediocre QB that won't leave you (because there's no demand for him).


Well, stop wondering. No one I know or see here is saying they don't want the star and the next big thing because of the pain they'll feel if they lose him. Especially the way the NFL is set up.

The biggest fear is they'll get a guy that just ain't any fucking good and that they may throw additional picks and resources to get that next sucking chest wound.

Now, that may be as irrational as what you're suggesting, but for completely different reasons.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:36 pm

Where is it written that wanting to stick with an incredibly underwhelming and low-potential QB is rational?

And, yes, I can see the whole "If we draft him, he'll probably suck!" irrationality as well.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:08 pm

Hikohadon wrote:Where is it written that wanting to stick with an incredibly underwhelming and low-potential QB is rational?

And, yes, I can see the whole "If we draft him, he'll probably suck!" irrationality as well.


Not saying any of it is rational. Just saying it has nothing to do with "I'm scared of loving and losing him".

Bring Aaron Rodgers in tomorrow. See if 'losing him' enters the equation. It's about the risk of not getting the right guy. And yeah, I'm fully aware you have to take the chance at some point.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:04 pm

In the end it's about being afraid to take the risk.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:32 pm

Prosecutor wrote:With regard to Colt, first impressions are powerful. Colt made a great first impression by playing surprisingly well against the Steelers in his first pro start despite only three days of practice as the #1. He followed that up by beating the Patriots and Saints. At this point most Browns fans, including me, were thinking "He doesn't look that impressive but we can win with this guy". The same thing we said about Sipe and Kosar.

It's not easy to admit that's not the case, especially since it would be so nice to have the QB problem solved so we can use ALL the draft picks and cap space to add speed and playmakers on both sides of the ball. Which is why there's a solid argument to sign Flynn, or Kolb if he's released.

Assuming Flynn ends up in Miami, it's questionable whether Holmgren will approve a move up to #2 considering the cost. His philosophy is to either trade for another team's backup (Hasselbeck, Favre) or draft a mid-round project (McCoy) every year until you hit on somebody. They talked about wanting to accumulate extra picks because there were so many holes to fill. It seems unlikely they would sacrifice picks to trade up for RG3 even if they did not get a QB in free agency.

However, someone made an excellent point in that Holmgren offered a very rich package of picks for Sam Bradford, so it's not like he's opposed to paying up for what he considers to be a can't miss blue chip QB. If he would do it for Bradford, why not Griffin, who probably has even more upside?

The final piece is that he's moving into Year 3 of a five year contract and has only 9 wins to show for it. He has to be feeling some urgency. Also, the success of rookie QBs like Newton, Dalton, Flacco, Ryan, Roethlisberger and others the last few years has to be changing some attitudes about how long it will take a blue chip prospect to start contributing.


SD:

Prosecutor I like you so i feel its my obligation to tell you to just stop it , much as I want to tell Lebron to STFU as he tries desperately to say any groveling shit he can think of to get the fans off his ass .

take this to the bank and send Peeker the memo .

If Indy didn't have the obligation to fill the vacuum of Peyton Manning with another white statue them hayseeds can worship , Griffin would be picked ahead of Luck .

Its why Polian was fired and its why Dungy hasn't been asked anymore opinions on the subject .

and before either of you two cry foul and sacriledge that I would denegrate the mighty power of Luck be advised .

I'm telling you both ahead of time what the rest of the world will soon find out , Luck is a great talent at QB , but Griffin is the rarest of rare finds .

his arm as rated by Mayock while damn near coming on himself as he talke about what he saw on film study was rated as top five maybe of all time .

Me I rate it better than that because of the Brains behind the trigger .

He's Bernie Kosar on the road runners body instead of that stork platform , with a Bazzoka instead of that side arm sling shot.

He's John Ellway without the Horse teeth and that ugly Bronco uniform kicking our ass , only he has a Brain belied by his dreadlock appearance but verified by any interview you ever want to hear .


and the best part , as soon as you two numbnuts get in line , and make about another million similarly retarded Browns fans with Brain freeze get instep .

This absolute bad Mutha Fucka will be a Brown .

Be advised , I'm not taking Prisoners on this , and I'm backing up with tank treads over all road kill.


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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:35 pm

I've seen several Mocks have the Fins take Ryan Tannehill at 9, which seems high for him but is somewhat understandable b/c of the Sherman connection. Flynn is also a popular choice for Miami (understandably) b/c of the Philbin connection, but I could also see Miami opting to sit tight and take Tannehill rather than sacrifice the next 2 drafts to move up to #2 and get RG3.

So there might be some credence to the idea that the Dolphins will likely be out of RG3 contention.

If we can just get the Redskins to sign Peyton Manning...
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:35 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:SD: take this to the bank and send Peeker the memo .

If Indy didn't have the obligation to fill the vacuum of Peyton Manning with another white statue them hayseeds can worship , Griffin would be picked ahead of Luck .

and before either of you two cry foul and sacriledge that I would denegrate the mighty power of Luck be advised .

I'm telling you both ahead of time what the rest of the world will soon find out , Luck is a great talent at QB , but Griffin is the rarest of rare finds .


and the best part , as soon as you two numbnuts get in line , and make about another million similarly retarded Browns fans with Brain freeze get instep .

This absolute bad Mutha Fucka will be a Brown .

SoulDawg


Awesome. See, I knew if I could deal with you for years there'd be a payoff. It was probably me just being an idiot for all that time but now I look forward to these posts.

And ya know what, there's not going to be an in-between with RG3. He's either going to boom or bust. And if he busts it'll be because his frame is too small and light and/or he can't grasp NFL defenses (which has nothing to do with smarts but is a specific skill that guys far less intelligent than he have figured out).

If he booms he easily eclipses Luck. If he busts you're fucked.

I'm about with y'all where I don't care about fucked and am ready to take my chances. But Luck WILL play 12 years. I don't know if he'll be Peyton Manning JR or Kerry Collins but he will not bust out completely. That's why Indy will take him (along with what I truly believe IS some of that white, hayseed thing too).
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:51 pm

Luck is safer, and the reason is that he has the pocket presence and enough mobility to avoid getting killed in the pocket. He'll scramble some, but will take a dive when anyone gets within sniffin' distance.

RG3 is every bit as intelligent as Luck (and Luck is clearly a smart guy), and I have no worries about his ability to read defenses or learn offense X or learn to take snaps (who the fuck can't do that) or make multiple reads or what not. Peek makes a point that even smart guys sometimes can't grasp NFL Defenses, and it's valid, but I personally give smart guys the benefit of the doubt on that until they prove otherwise (just like I give accurate guys the benefit of the doubt that they'll still be accurate in the NFL - I don't see why we need to invent possible drawbacks).

The only - ONLY - worry I can see on RG3 is him getting killed trying to use his enviable mobility in the NFL. He's not an overly big guy, and there will be a time when his college instincts will kick in and he'll try something that he could get away with in the Big 12, except Ray Lewis will be there this time.

I don't think he'll be diving like Luck... and that's where he's less safe.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:57 pm

Do whatever it takes. Everyone whining about giving up another 1st and a 2nd to move up will forget it by the end of the 1st quarter of the 1st preseason game. RG3 is the real deal. Get it done Heckert.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:00 pm

I'm sure I'm not the only one that read the previous post with a Ron Swanson voice echoing in their head.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:03 pm

rebel needs to update his avatar, Ron looks young there, need to get the more aged and wiser version in production.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:20 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:rebel needs to update his avatar, Ron looks young there, need to get the more aged and wiser version in production.



His hair is definitely longer and not parted anymore. Now it's a borderline pompadour. Might have to switch the avatar to Duke Silver after last night's episode.

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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:29 pm

Hikohadon wrote:RG3 is every bit as intelligent as Luck (and Luck is clearly a smart guy), and I have no worries about his ability to read defenses or learn offense X or learn to take snaps (who the fuck can't do that) or make multiple reads or what not. Peek makes a point that even smart guys sometimes can't grasp NFL Defenses, and it's valid, but I personally give smart guys the benefit of the doubt on that until they prove otherwise (just like I give accurate guys the benefit of the doubt that they'll still be accurate in the NFL - I don't see why we need to invent possible drawbacks).


I'm not inventing it. He hasn't had to do it thus far. He may check down or go to his second or third option on throws but he hasn't been asked to read defenses pre-snap and get his offense into the proper play, formation, etc.

That's out there and numerous people talk about when looking at RG3's "needs".

Yes, he's smart. And I'll take the smart guy over the one who isn't too. But I'm saying smart doesn't always equate to success in that regard. Although, if he's handcuffed by a dipshit like Shurmur, it probably doesn't matter if he does have Peyton Manning's football mind. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby jerryroche » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:30 pm

Hikohadon wrote:The only - ONLY - worry I can see on RG3 is him getting killed trying to use his enviable mobility in the NFL. He's not an overly big guy, and there will be a time when his college instincts will kick in and he'll try something that he could get away with in the Big 12, except Ray Lewis will be there this time.

RG3 is 6-1, 220. Michael Vick—who has rushed for 5,219 yards in his career—is 6-0, 215. Vick has also started every game for 6 of his 8 full years in the league. Fran Tarkenton (6-0, 190) rushed for 3,674 yards in his 13-year career, during which he started 239 of 246 games.

Ain't saying that RG3 will remain that healthy. Nobody can say that. But it's been done before by scrambling QBs of his size.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:35 pm

jerryroche wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:The only - ONLY - worry I can see on RG3 is him getting killed trying to use his enviable mobility in the NFL. He's not an overly big guy, and there will be a time when his college instincts will kick in and he'll try something that he could get away with in the Big 12, except Ray Lewis will be there this time.

RG3 is 6-1, 220. Michael Vick—who has rushed for 5,219 yards in his career—is 6-0, 215. Vick has also started every game for 6 of his 8 full years in the league. Fran Tarkenton (6-0, 190) rushed for 3,674 yards in his 13-year career, during which he started 239 of 246 games.

Ain't saying that RG3 will remain that healthy. Nobody can say that. But it's been done before by scrambling QBs of his size.


Nope- Can't go there. There is not an athlete on earth with the athletic ability at that position that Vick has. Not one, not ever. Vick's quick-twitch is ungodly and it's his alone. RG3 is an athlete too but it's not Mike Vick we're talking about.

If Vick is a 99/100 on the QB/Athlete scale and RG3 is a 93 or 95 even, that slight difference, that split second of motion, strength, explosion and quickness is enough to get him lit up a lot more often than Vick did/does.

Bottom line is RG3 has a small frame (and that IS similar to Vick) with less quick twitch muscle (and maybe the combine/workout proves me wrong there). But minute differences in that kind of thing can add up to huge differences in avoiding big hits vs. catching glancing blows.

Just my $0.02
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:36 pm

jerryroche wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:The only - ONLY - worry I can see on RG3 is him getting killed trying to use his enviable mobility in the NFL. He's not an overly big guy, and there will be a time when his college instincts will kick in and he'll try something that he could get away with in the Big 12, except Ray Lewis will be there this time.

RG3 is 6-1, 220. Michael Vick—who has rushed for 5,219 yards in his career—is 6-0, 215. Vick has also started every game for 6 of his 8 full years in the league. Fran Tarkenton (6-0, 190) rushed for 3,674 yards in his 13-year career, during which he started 239 of 246 games.

Ain't saying that RG3 will remain that healthy. Nobody can say that. But it's been done before by scrambling QBs of his size.


You don't need to convince me. I don't think he's sure to get hurt just b/c he runs. Just stating that would be my only worry with him.

You should really throw the Fran Tarkenton stats out - that was a different NFL world.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:39 pm

Vick went to prison for years, sat on the sidelines for most of a year and then went to a probowl.

There are about two guys on the planet that can do that at any positions, let alone QB. He's going to go down as one of the biggest "what if's" ever. Fucking prison. I may kill a dog tonight in protest.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:50 pm

jerryroche wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:The only - ONLY - worry I can see on RG3 is him getting killed trying to use his enviable mobility in the NFL. He's not an overly big guy, and there will be a time when his college instincts will kick in and he'll try something that he could get away with in the Big 12, except Ray Lewis will be there this time.

RG3 is 6-1, 220. Michael Vick—who has rushed for 5,219 yards in his career—is 6-0, 215. Vick has also started every game for 6 of his 8 full years in the league. Fran Tarkenton (6-0, 190) rushed for 3,674 yards in his 13-year career, during which he started 239 of 246 games.

Ain't saying that RG3 will remain that healthy. Nobody can say that. But it's been done before by scrambling QBs of his size.



Vick is closer in size to Colt McCoy than RG3. I'd peg Vick at 5'10", 190-195 lbs. About a week ago on Mike & Mike, they were discussing RG3 in regards to Vick and both of them said that Vick was shorter than Greenberg, who admitted to being 5'11". Won't know about RG3 til the combine, but he looks bigger than Vick, by a decent amount.
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Re: Kipers Mock 2.0

Unread postby jerryroche » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:15 pm

peeker643 wrote:Nope-Can't go there. There is not an athlete on earth with the athletic ability at that position that Vick has. Not one, not ever. Vick's quick-twitch is ungodly and it's his alone. RG3 is an athlete too but it's not Mike Vick we're talking about.

Well, shit. You could have a point, Peeker, based on your own observations.

But based solely on historical stats, it would seem that RG3's "quick-twitch" muscles are every bit as twitchy as Vick's. In two years playing in the ACC, Vick rushed for 1,216 yards. In three years playing in the Big 12, Griffin rushed for 2,022 yards. Both not only survived but thrived as running QBs in two tough football conferences.

And with the safety-slide rule now being called tightly by NFL officials, I would say that the possibility of QBs being injured while running past the line of scrimmage has been minimized (though certainly not eliminated).
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