Vince G interviews Jammies

[jb]

http://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/the-custodian/Content?oid=2805785

Good read.

[HoodooMan]

Yep, good read.

My feeling lately has been that H&H don't survive another sub-7 win season, with the one exception being that, if they draft a franchise QB and he looks good, that'll buy at least another year.

Throughout much of that piece, though, I started to think, "Wow, Randy might have finally developed some personal football intuition, some real conviction here (<--IMO, easily his greatest failing to date). H&H are his guys, and that's that." And I liked that.

Then I read:

"They were frustrated," Lerner says. "We were all frustrated. We thought we were going to win more games this season. We improved — we were in a lot of those games — but they wanted to go up there with tangible evidence that there's improvement. We know it's happening, but they wanted to be able to say, 'Here, here's how many more games we won this season.' You can only say 'trust us' so many times. This isn't a religion. This is football.

"We have to win more games next year," he says. "We will win more games next year. I truly believe that. And there's a small part of me that hopes that as we've been going like this [miming one step at a time], that this offseason, if things go right, that we'll make a big jump."

Which took me right back to how I felt about him as an owner before reading it. His faith in H&H isn't based on anything more substantial than his faith in past regimes has been. He's still Fickle Randy.

So yeah, we'd better win at least 7 next year or H&H are F'd.

[jb]

Hmm, I read the piece and it screamed "stay the course'.

To me, these guys get 5 -- or more -- years no matter what; short of the Mayans being right.

[HoodooMan]

I read that second paragraph as Randy expecting mediocrity--at minimum--next year, hoping for playoffs.

Which, in itself, is perfectly fine. Tangible improvement is kind of a necessary step in the process.

But parts of that quote suggest to me that he's lying to himself about what he's seeing on the field and that he might as well be referring to himself when he brings up football's relation to religion, which it seems to me is a shaky foundation for belief in H&H, and I think he's setting himself up to be devastated by another 5-6 win year, regardless of whether or not there actually IS some real progress made on the field.

[mattvan1]

I read that second paragraph as Randy expecting mediocrity--at minimum--next year, hoping for playoffs.

Which, in itself, is perfectly fine. Tangible improvement is kind of a necessary step in the process.

But parts of that quote suggest to me that he's lying to himself about what he's seeing on the field and that he might as well be referring to himself when he brings up football's relation to religion, which it seems to me is a shaky foundation for belief in H&H, and I think he's setting himself up to be devastated by another 5-6 win year, regardless of whether or not there actually IS some real progress made on the field.

I don't think Randy is lying to himself - I think he's lying to us. If the dude is that irrational........No way anyone expected any more than 6-7 wins at the absolute maximum from a team with all of those holes, a new HC, new O scheme, no OTAs...blah blah blah - we all know the reasons.

He owns the team and has every right to be pissed, but has proven time and time again he cannot organize a piss up in a brewery. So he finally, thankfully, mercifully turned over 99% of the operation of the club to a real football guy. Love him or hate him we have, at least on paper, a real HMFIC. And despite all of the bad decisions and ego and posturing, Walrus needs to at least stay on for 2 more seasons.

Unless all hell breaks loose and Deer in Headlights and his new pal Chilly can't stop the bleeding and Walrus declines to push the "terminate" button he needs to stay - and if Randy goes emo and pulls the plug after next year's 7-9 than there is no hope left.

[LakeErieWarriors]

Found that article encouraging. But it may have just provided me a false sense of hope. Basically what it says is all that pre-Walrus shit is looong gone. This is a new franchise now with new direction. When in actuality it's been about two years and when you break it down to wins and losses, ain't shit changed. Heckert's biggest test is rapidly approaching so I hope he's studying up.

[Triple-S]

Awesome read.

I wish that Lerner was more out there like this. Do something like this about 1-2 times a year to calm the fans down.

"They said when they started it was a three-to-five-year plan," Lerner says. "Mike said, 'Here's how long it's going to take to do this right,' and I said OK."

Lerner say all of their internal metrics say they need at least 30 or so highly-graded players to make the playoffs. "You look at any playoff team, and sure, there are going to be exceptions, but you look at any playoff team and that's what you're going to find. Now, in any given year, between free agency and the draft, the best you can typically hope for is to add seven of that type of player that can help your team. More often, it's more like five. So you take seven players times five years, and that's where you get those numbers."

And the cupboard Holmgren and Heckert inherited was pretty bare of highly-graded players.

If you're looking for comparisons — beacons of hope even — look no further than the Houston Texans and the San Fransisco 49ers, both of which made the playoffs this year after relatively recent streaks of lowliness, and both of which are models of sort for how Cleveland hopes to rebuild.

Also, yeah, Lerner isn't throwing these guys overboard for a while. That piece pretty much told me much more about the rebuild than the double-speak that H&H gave me.

[jb]

But parts of that quote suggest to me that he's lying to himself about what he's seeing on the field and that he might as well be referring to himself when he brings up football's relation to religion, which it seems to me is a shaky foundation for belief in H&H, and I think he's setting himself up to be devastated by another 5-6 win year, regardless of whether or not there actually IS some real progress made on the field.

Personally, I think there's more to RL as a person than many give him credit for, but that's becsue they bought into the foolish Monty Burns cartoon. But as a football owner? He's still a muppet. When Randy's lips move regarding football, Holmgren's arm is awfully smelly a few minutes later.

[HoodooMan]

But as a football owner? He's still a muppet. When Randy's lips move regarding football, Holmgren's arm is awfully smelly a few minutes later.

Yep, which is still the problem. Randy's support for H&H, like his support for everyone else in the past, is based on pure faith, rather than this-is-the/a-right-way-to-build-a-football-team conviction. And that's why his resolve is so easily broken. He has no principles of process. He has faith in what his top football guy tells him, and he sees nothing beyond results. Then once his faith is exhausted after 0.5-3 years, his top football guy is F'd.

[mattvan1]

But as a football owner? He's still a muppet. When Randy's lips move regarding football, Holmgren's arm is awfully smelly a few minutes later.

Yep, which is still the problem. Randy's support for H&H, like his support for everyone else in the past, is based on pure faith, rather than this-is-the/a-right-way-to-build-a-football-team conviction. And that's why his resolve is so easily broken. He has no principles of process. He has faith in what his top football guy tells him, and he sees nothing beyond results. Then once his faith is exhausted after 0.5-3 years, his top football guy is F'd.

Randy doesn't know how to build a team--and neither does anyone else, really. There are a few models which have worked elsewhere - and Randy seems hellbent on trying them all. He's tried the hot young GM with ex Super Bowl co-ord route, the Tao of Kraft get the guru and all is well approach, and now he's onto get a HMFIC and put a proper org in place. Harmony. Continuity. Kumbaya.

Randy may be intelligent and well read, but deep down inside he's a kid. Hopefully smart enough to learn from his mistakes. I think he's starting to get it. And I think he stays the course through the end of 2013.

[SoulDawg74]

But as a football owner? He's still a muppet. When Randy's lips move regarding football, Holmgren's arm is awfully smelly a few minutes later.

Yep, which is still the problem. Randy's support for H&H, like his support for everyone else in the past, is based on pure faith, rather than this-is-the/a-right-way-to-build-a-football-team conviction. And that's why his resolve is so easily broken. He has no principles of process. He has faith in what his top football guy tells him, and he sees nothing beyond results. Then once his faith is exhausted after 0.5-3 years, his top football guy is F'd.

SD:

Well if you don't stand for something , you'll fall for anything , and too often it seems Randy has fallen prey to the last voice he hears in the room.

Too me his comments mark a distinct change , where more study and thought and less emotion are the equation .

The snide reproach of Holmgren comparing our present QB situation with the need to revamp as did B More and the inbred after failing with Kordell and the E Boller virus , was diplomacy with effect .

He's learning his role as owner and growing into the vacuum left via his Dad's death into true franchise stewardship.


SoulDawg

[SoulDawg74]

But as a football owner? He's still a muppet. When Randy's lips move regarding football, Holmgren's arm is awfully smelly a few minutes later.

Yep, which is still the problem. Randy's support for H&H, like his support for everyone else in the past, is based on pure faith, rather than this-is-the/a-right-way-to-build-a-football-team conviction. And that's why his resolve is so easily broken. He has no principles of process. He has faith in what his top football guy tells him, and he sees nothing beyond results. Then once his faith is exhausted after 0.5-3 years, his top football guy is F'd.

Randy doesn't know how to build a team--and neither does anyone else, really. There are a few models which have worked elsewhere - and Randy seems hellbent on trying them all. He's tried the hot young GM with ex Super Bowl co-ord route, the Tao of Kraft get the guru and all is well approach, and now he's onto get a HMFIC and put a proper org in place. Harmony. Continuity. Kumbaya.

Randy may be intelligent and well read, but deep down inside he's a kid. Hopefully smart enough to learn from his mistakes. I think he's starting to get it. And I think he stays the course through the end of 2013.

SD:

A top QB in the draft buys these guys two years minimum , all things being equal .

Going with Colt alone in difference to Lerners expectations to upgrade the position ,is corporate suicide .

All owners like to have a shiny new toy to brag about , and in the NFL the crown on the Rolls is franchise QB.

When the owner breaks his cover after essentially two years of silence and offers his evaluation of the QB position , while painfully making it clear he's no expert big pimpin jive azz QB big shot QB evaluator , you don't need a road map to read where this is going.

You might as well be the only one left in the World still thinking Peyton is gonna get paid that $28 million., if you think
Berea didn't get that memo .

Randy's speech means that change will be RG3 or Flynn , and not Kolb or fake suede tannehill.

We'll stay the course , long as Berea follows directions.


SoulDawg

[pup]

Anybody else at least a little surprised at the visit and support of the regime from Bernie? Been pretty much made to appear that he was on the Jim Brown train when it left town. Now it looks like he is around and on board?

[leadpipe]

There's a possibility Randy learns some lessons, but ideally, you'd like the owner to fall into the "super-smart" category from the bump, like many of these guys who built their own wealth.

Look, the guy's not David Modell, but he ain't Al Lerner either.

Al was driven and supremely intelligent. Randy has been able to skate along because of this. And what you're seeing as far as the perceptions of complacency and lack of urgency and so forth, pretty much fall in line.

So we can assume Randy will figure things out, but that's a bigger assumption then it should be.

[jb]

There's a possibility Randy learns some lessons, but ideally, you'd like the owner to fall into the "super-smart" category from the bump, like many of these guys who built their own wealth.

Look, the guy's not David Modell, but he ain't Al Lerner either.

Al was driven and supremely intelligent. Randy has been able to skate along because of this. And what you're seeing as far as the perceptions of complacency and lack of urgency and so forth, pretty much fall in line.

So we can assume Randy will figure things out, but that's a bigger assumption then it should be.

This is a quality post Pipe.

RL doesn't appear to be a party boy dolt (although that worked pretty well in the late 80's early 90's for one organization) , but rather a cultivated man of leisure and letters. The apple really fell far and rolled. But he's not a dooshbag either.

Our best bet is luck (small L ) at this point. Seriously. Luck that somehow it fell / falls into place.

Georgia won a sausage and was there twice.

Bidwell was a bad ref & replay angle from winning one.

Unless the owner is a complete disaster like Jerruh or a skin flint , I think most of this is luck.

[HoodooMan]

Randy doesn't know how to build a team--and neither does anyone else, really. There are a few models which have worked elsewhere - and Randy seems hellbent on trying them all. He's tried the hot young GM with ex Super Bowl co-ord route, the Tao of Kraft get the guru and all is well approach, and now he's onto get a HMFIC and put a proper org in place. Harmony. Continuity. Kumbaya.

^Not exactly what I was talking about. I'd rather he not have a specific GM/HC model in mind, because then I think he'd inevitably be wrong, and I'd rather him be excessively openminded on something than be wrong with conviction.

The kind of conviction I'm talking about: if I owned the Cleveland Browns, I could give you a list of things that H&H have done that I've loved, and I could give you reasons why I believe we've yet to see progress on the field, despite them doing things the right way. As far as I can tell, Randy is still incapable of this. And that's why I'm skeptical that he's attached to these guys in a more substantial way than he's been attached to his guys in the past.

[HoodooMan]

Well if you don't stand for something , you'll fall for anything , and too often it seems Randy has fallen prey to the last voice he hears in the room.

I think that's accurate. Unfortunately, I think it's still the case. What concerns me is that I think he's now listening to the right voice, but he still doesn't know the difference. So, without immediate results, his faith is set to expire very soon, as it has with the rest.

Randy's speech means that change will be RG3 or Flynn , and not Kolb or fake suede tannehill.

I agree, except I think Tannehill's in the mix too.

[HoodooMan]

Unless the owner is a complete disaster like Jerruh or a skin flint , I think most of this is luck.

Unless your owner has some football conviction--like, it seems to me, the Rooneys have had. Then your organization has a defined direction, and it's much less about luck, I think.

But yeah, when the majority of owners fall into a cycle of Three Years/No Results/Reset, for them, luck is going to have a lot to do with it.

[jb]

As far as I can tell, Randy is still incapable of this.

Begging your pardon in advance Hoo doo, but how the fuck can you have the insight to make this statement? Not saying you are wrong or right, just saying there is no way you have enough access to formulate any sort of valid opinion on this one.

This is an out-ur-corn hole take I'd expect to read from shitty forums from one note Johnny drive by posters an that ain't you.

[HoodooMan]

Begging your pardon in advance Hoo doo, but how the fuck can you have the insight to make this statement? Not saying you are wrong or right, just saying there is no way you have enough access to formulate any sort of valid opinion on this one.

Well, upthread you linked a pretty extensive article on Randy with a good deal of quoted material. Admittedly, that's the extent of my insight, but what's the most substantial thing you can pull out of that article RE: Randy believing in H&H? I see very little.

ETA: Imagine you're the owner of the Cleveland Browns and someone just did a piece as expansive as that one on you. Would it be possible for such a thing to exist without you expressing your support for your guys in a considerably more substantial & specific manner than Randy did in the piece you linked? And I don't think this is an issue of personality.

Also...

But as a football owner? He's still a muppet. When Randy's lips move regarding football, Holmgren's arm is awfully smelly a few minutes later.

Who-TF wrote this^ upthread?!?!?!

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Which took me right back to how I felt about him as an owner before reading it. His faith in H&H isn't based on anything more substantial than his faith in past regimes has been. He's still Fickle Randy.

Eh, I see the seating arrangements of the Politburo differently. From the point where Modell blew everything up to Al getting the expansion team was but a few years, and a few years after that Al passes. In something like five years Randy goes from zero NFL experience to multimillionaire NFL franchise owner. To top it all off, Butch runs Al's consigliere Carmen and summarily guns himself down at the toll booth. Randy's left with nothing more than the owner's manual, and I'm not even sure he wanted it as he's still got a fancy for socer.

However, he's not going to abandon his father's legacy. So he puts his faith in his advisers' advice, hires whoever they say is good, and jets of to Leeds. Butch, Collins, and Savage are left to fester until they melt into full blown China Syndromes. Then comes ManKok and its not even a year before everything goes to hell in Berea. At this point something changes, Lerner finally decides enough is enough and/or gets a friendly nudge from Goodell. The advisers get fired, Kokinis gets hauled out of Berea, and Lerner gets a brand new consigliere in Holmgren.

Only now the warning signs are popping right back up again. Shurmur gets feisty with the media, Holmgren gets feisty with the media, the PD's beat writer is calling Lerner himself out in Twitter, and I can imagine the WTF going on in polite conversation over Holmgren hiring noted failure Brad Childress to stand at the sideline and hold a clipboard. He wants to put his faith in Holmgren and Heckert, but there's that niggling feeling of deja vu again. Hence hedging his faith in the Walrus with 'can we start winning now?'

[SoulDawg74]

Which took me right back to how I felt about him as an owner before reading it. His faith in H&H isn't based on anything more substantial than his faith in past regimes has been. He's still Fickle Randy.

Eh, I see the seating arrangements of the Politburo differently. From the point where Modell blew everything up to Al getting the expansion team was but a few years, and a few years after that Al passes. In something like five years Randy goes from zero NFL experience to multimillionaire NFL franchise owner. To top it all off, Butch runs Al's consigliere Carmen and summarily guns himself down at the toll booth. Randy's left with nothing more than the owner's manual, and I'm not even sure he wanted it as he's still got a fancy for socer.

However, he's not going to abandon his father's legacy. So he puts his faith in his advisers' advice, hires whoever they say is good, and jets of to Leeds. Butch, Collins, and Savage are left to fester until they melt into full blown China Syndromes. Then comes ManKok and its not even a year before everything goes to hell in Berea. At this point something changes, Lerner finally decides enough is enough and/or gets a friendly nudge from Goodell. The advisers get fired, Kokinis gets hauled out of Berea, and Lerner gets a brand new consigliere in Holmgren.

Only now the warning signs are popping right back up again. Shurmur gets feisty with the media, Holmgren gets feisty with the media, the PD's beat writer is calling Lerner himself out in Twitter, and I can imagine the WTF going on in polite conversation over Holmgren hiring noted failure Brad Childress to stand at the sideline and hold a clipboard. He wants to put his faith in Holmgren and Heckert, but there's that niggling feeling of deja vu again. Hence hedging his faith in the Walrus with 'can we start winning now?'

SD:

Nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors , but right before Homie melty Presser , Rizzo stole my line and was blasting the airwaves , two years in and twenty million payed out to holmgren and we don't have a QB .

Lerners kid goes to Cleveland Catholic schools , so local press radio and even these message boards get run at his kid under peer group pressures , not to mention Lerner himself being cognizant of his image in the press , which he attempted to reinvent in those impromptu interviews.

Then Colt being kept out of that last game after his Dad embarrassed the Browns although he most certainly cleared his headache test , had to of lent steam to those after season meetings , on the same par as when Braylon and Winslow embarrassed the Browns only more so , since the face of the team ( his Dad) had called out the Browns.

Randy called em on the carpet and the moonwalking started .

Thus the stay the course kumbya when for the first time in the return the reset button wasn't pushed but not without a public reproach of the cough cough Guru high falootin all powerful QB evaluator.

Randy thus finally spoke from the position of ownership and authority chastising the children , properly spanking them and allowing to the fans we will get better while outlining a clear direction and plan.

We will junk our present QB jsut like the inbred and rats dumped Kordell and the virus , and we will move forward from there as they did and fix the problem with a franchise pick.

JB says Homies hands are rammed up Lerners ass like a muppet .

But I defy anyone to tell me you would direct your owner and your boss , to compare your QB to Kordell Maddox and Boller the three failed stooges which represented an epic fail within this division if you was pulling his strings .

Nope the real story behind the closed doors is Lerner layed into all them Mutha suckas including and especially JB's puppet master and thus put them all on notice , with a public decree masked as an innocent casual statement of fact.

We will fix the problem the way they fixed their problem and draft the best talent we can lay our hands on at the position the same way they did, , we will stay the course and everyone gets a Mulligan over this Kordell EBoller Charlie Mccoy fiasco , butt i'm not a high powered QB evaluator or nothing I don't know who we're gonna pick or whose gonna play , just a humble servant and steward of the Cleveland Browns .


SoulDawg

[peeker643]

I liked the last two posts.

Seriously, I did.

Well done.

I'm still sticking with the Kevin Kolb acquisition though. Don't shoot the messenger.

[HoodooMan]

Rizzo stole my line and was blasting the airwaves , two years in and twenty million payed out to holmgren and we don't have a QB .

^Kind of childish whining. And it's why so many Browns fans deserve to be condescended to by H&H.

List of starting QBs acquired in the last 2 years:

Matt Moore (we still wouldn't have a QB)
Cam Newton (no one but you thinks trading up for him was within the realm of sane possibility)
Matt Hasselbeck (we still wouldn't have a QB)
Kevin Kolb (we still wouldn't have a QB)
Carson Palmer (we still wouldn't have a QB, and we'd have 2 less first rounders)
Andy Dalton (wouldn't have made sense for us in the 2nd round last year, would have made even less sense to deal up ahead of the Bengals to get him...and we still probably wouldn't have a QB)
Tavaris Jackson (we still wouldn't have a QB)
Tim Tebow (we still wouldn't have a QB)
Rex Grossman (we still wouldn't have a QB)
Sam Bradford (we probably still wouldn't have a QB, and we'd probably have 3 less first rounders and 2 less second rounders)
Christian Ponder (we probably still wouldn't have a QB)
Blaine Gabbert (we probably still wouldn't have a QB)
Jason Campbell (we still wouldn't have a QB)

^REALITY

At least I give you credit SD for having the somewhat (IMO) less-than-sane position of "We should have dealt up for Cam Newton. That guy should be our QB." At least there's accountability there. Most seem incapable of even that.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I liked the last two posts.

Seriously, I did.

Well done.

I'm still sticking with the Kevin Kolb acquisition though. Don't shoot the messenger.

As much as I hate to accept it, this is what I beleive is becoming the most likely scenerio

According to PFT, Manning is having dinner with Larry Fitgerald in an attempt to lure him to Arizona ala Kolb

That and the gut feeling that they will pass on RG and/or trade the pick and merely him as bait

[jb]

Rizzo stole my line and was blasting the airwaves , two years in and twenty million payed out to holmgren and we don't have a QB .

^Kind of childish whining. And it's why so many Browns fans deserve to be condescended to by H&H.

List of starting QBs acquired in the last 2 years:

Matt Moore (we still wouldn't have a QB)
Cam Newton (no one but you thinks trading up for him was within the realm of sane possibility)
Matt Hasselbeck (we still wouldn't have a QB)
Kevin Kolb (we still wouldn't have a QB)
Carson Palmer (we still wouldn't have a QB, and we'd have 2 less first rounders)
Andy Dalton (wouldn't have made sense for us in the 2nd round last year, would have made even less sense to deal up ahead of the Bengals to get him...and we still probably wouldn't have a QB)
Tavaris Jackson (we still wouldn't have a QB)
Tim Tebow (we still wouldn't have a QB)
Rex Grossman (we still wouldn't have a QB)
Sam Bradford (we probably still wouldn't have a QB, and we'd probably have 3 less first rounders and 2 less second rounders)
Christian Ponder (we probably still wouldn't have a QB)
Blaine Gabbert (we probably still wouldn't have a QB)
Jason Campbell (we still wouldn't have a QB)

^REALITY

At least I give you credit SD for having the somewhat (IMO) less-than-sane position of "We should have dealt up for Cam Newton. That guy should be our QB." At least there's accountability there. Most seem incapable of even that.

[SoulDawg74]

Rizzo stole my line and was blasting the airwaves , two years in and twenty million payed out to holmgren and we don't have a QB .

^Kind of childish whining. And it's why so many Browns fans deserve to be condescended to by H&H.

List of starting QBs acquired in the last 2 years:

Matt Moore (we still wouldn't have a QB)
Cam Newton (no one but you thinks trading up for him was within the realm of sane possibility)
Matt Hasselbeck (we still wouldn't have a QB)
Kevin Kolb (we still wouldn't have a QB)
Carson Palmer (we still wouldn't have a QB, and we'd have 2 less first rounders)
Andy Dalton (wouldn't have made sense for us in the 2nd round last year, would have made even less sense to deal up ahead of the Bengals to get him...and we still probably wouldn't have a QB)
Tavaris Jackson (we still wouldn't have a QB)
Tim Tebow (we still wouldn't have a QB)
Rex Grossman (we still wouldn't have a QB)
Sam Bradford (we probably still wouldn't have a QB, and we'd probably have 3 less first rounders and 2 less second rounders)
Christian Ponder (we probably still wouldn't have a QB)
Blaine Gabbert (we probably still wouldn't have a QB)
Jason Campbell (we still wouldn't have a QB)

^REALITY

At least I give you credit SD for having the somewhat (IMO) less-than-sane position of "We should have dealt up for Cam Newton. That guy should be our QB." At least there's accountability there. Most seem incapable of even that.

SD:

Time will tell if my position on Newton was insanity or pure genuis ., sense i whupped all the experts , i'm now scheduling ceiling paintings for all true beleivers.

and

I want you to remeber my plan two in that draft failing a trade up was to sign Hasselback and draft Luck which would have secured the position immediately , a plan Tennessee followed to the letter.

Class dismissed.


SoulDawg

[SoulDawg74]

Rizzo stole my line and was blasting the airwaves , two years in and twenty million payed out to holmgren and we don't have a QB .

^Kind of childish whining. And it's why so many Browns fans deserve to be condescended to by H&H.

List of starting QBs acquired in the last 2 years:

Matt Moore (we still wouldn't have a QB)
Cam Newton (no one but you thinks trading up for him was within the realm of sane possibility)
Matt Hasselbeck (we still wouldn't have a QB)
Kevin Kolb (we still wouldn't have a QB)
Carson Palmer (we still wouldn't have a QB, and we'd have 2 less first rounders)
Andy Dalton (wouldn't have made sense for us in the 2nd round last year, would have made even less sense to deal up ahead of the Bengals to get him...and we still probably wouldn't have a QB)
Tavaris Jackson (we still wouldn't have a QB)
Tim Tebow (we still wouldn't have a QB)
Rex Grossman (we still wouldn't have a QB)
Sam Bradford (we probably still wouldn't have a QB, and we'd probably have 3 less first rounders and 2 less second rounders)
Christian Ponder (we probably still wouldn't have a QB)
Blaine Gabbert (we probably still wouldn't have a QB)
Jason Campbell (we still wouldn't have a QB)

^REALITY

At least I give you credit SD for having the somewhat (IMO) less-than-sane position of "We should have dealt up for Cam Newton. That guy should be our QB." At least there's accountability there. Most seem incapable of even that.

SD:

Really

back at ya





Now go get my slippers.


SoulDawg

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I want you to remeber my plan two in that draft failing a trade up was to sign Hasselback and draft Luck which would have secured the position immediately , a plan Tennessee followed to the letter.

If you had bought shares of Facebook you'd be a multi millionaire

That was at least a possibility

...but seriously,

[SoulDawg74]

I want you to remeber my plan two in that draft failing a trade up was to sign Hasselback and draft Luck which would have secured the position immediately , a plan Tennessee followed to the letter.

If you had bought shares of Facebook you'd be a multi millionaire

That was at least a possibility

...but seriously,

SD:

snide comments won't get you any of my SuperBowl tickets when i turn this thing around.



Souldawg

[JCoz]

Thanks JB, thats actually a really good read.

[jb]

I want you to remeber my plan two in that draft failing a trade up was to sign Hasselback and draft Luck which would have secured the position immediately , a plan Tennessee followed to the letter.

If you had bought shares of Facebook you'd be a multi millionaire

That was at least a possibility

...but seriously,

So funny. So spot on.

[SoulDawg74]

I want you to remeber my plan two in that draft failing a trade up was to sign Hasselback and draft Luck which would have secured the position immediately , a plan Tennessee followed to the letter.

If you had bought shares of Facebook you'd be a multi millionaire

That was at least a possibility

...but seriously,

So funny. So spot on.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhttttttttttttttttttttttttttt!

[Hikohadon]

SD:

snide comments won't get you any of my SuperBowl tickets when i turn this thing around.



Souldawg

Now that's some funny shit right there, I don't care who you are.

I feel the same as SD, so I'm once again running for God in 2012 (despite my previous setbacks)... vote me in and I'll get this ship turned around lickety-split.