Text Size

Cleveland Browns & The NFL

Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Talk Browns football and discuss the NFL here.

Moderators: peeker643, jb, swerb, pup

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby skatingtripods » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:09 pm

swerb wrote:Hey guys. Woah, Big Gulps, huh? All right! Well, see ya later.


Now I want to watch this movie for the 9,700th time.

Hiko's right re: Childress. Not sure who else y'all wanted them to get. Had to be someone Walrus was familiar with and someone who knew a WCO. Not really a laundry list of guys fitting that criteria who would want to come and be part of this shitaborshowtion.
A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe
User avatar
skatingtripods
Sloth Duncan
 
Posts: 14346
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 12:27 pm
Location: Cleveland
Favorite Player: Mike Aviles
Least Favorite Player: Every Detroit Tiger

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby mattvan1 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:12 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:It doesn't matter what his track record is.

He knows the WCO
He worked under Reid
He is friends with Walrus
He is represented by Bob LaMonte

That is all you need to be a part of this confederacy of morons.


Is that you, Tony?

I can only assume that Holmgren did something personal to you in order for you to harbor such blind hatred. Counselling might be in order. Maybe some acupuncture. Past-life recall. Zoroastrianism.


No, just me. Other than the snarky bit at the end, what did I write that wasn't true? I know you're a member of the Walrus Uber Alles club, but are you seriously going to tell me that yet another Bob LoMonte hire doesn't make you go hmmmmmmmmm? At least a little bit?
I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever.
- CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team
User avatar
mattvan1
 
Posts: 3659
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:41 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:37 pm

leadpipe wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Just out of curiosity, Ye Who Be Flipping Out, who was it exactly you wanted them to hire (since it obviously wasn't The Human Muppet)?


And to answer the question, anyone with enough cache to be able to call the friggin' plays.

I have no confidence in Shurmer's ability to run an offense, therefore I have no confidence in his ability ot call plays. Again, looking histrically at Shurmer's record shows us that, well, the guys offenses don't really score points. Here, there, or anywhere.

I think, that what I want isn't gonna happen under this regime. Pretty clear it's not what you've done, it's who you know.

Holmgren, as of now, has done zero at the position he curently holds, anywhere in the NFL. Pat Shurmer was exactly on zero radars before his buddy came a callin'

I don't begrudge anyone OK with it. I'm not.


What's that person's name, though? Is he available? "Anyone that can call plays" is pretty vague. Childress has more experience than just about anyone out there. If Childress doesn't have the cache, who did?

I feel the same way as you about Shurmur's play calling.

I'm not necessarily "OK" with it, just not particularly moved one way or the other. It made total sense they would go this route. I'm not surprised. I'd already accepted another year of Shur.

For the record, I wanted Mike Sherman over Chilly, but he chose to take his talents to South Beach, so Chilly was an acceptable 2nd choice. Surround Shurmur with as many experienced people as possible - hope for a miracle.
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4278
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:40 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:^ you are clearly a Holmgren hater and he is clearly your white whale.


You lack creativity and, more importantly, originality. And I think your vag needs wiped.

Waiting for some sign of intelligence and wondering how you can turn this into "THIS IS GILBERT'S FAULT FOR WINNING AND GOING TO THE FINALS AND MAKING MONEY AND NOT SPENDING EVEN MORE AND I HATE HIM SO BAAAAAAAAAAD"

Now, kindly keep your inane ramblings and your tin foil hatting in the thread where it was at least contained.

Your anticipated cooperation is appreciated.

:salute:
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22632
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:49 pm

mattvan1 wrote:No, just me. Other than the snarky bit at the end, what did I write that wasn't true? I know you're a member of the Walrus Uber Alles club, but are you seriously going to tell me that yet another Bob LoMonte hire doesn't make you go hmmmmmmmmm? At least a little bit?


I like that name. Not totally true, but if we must paint everything as Black & White...

I don't give a damn about the agent. Maybe they got a group discount. To me, Childress makes sense from an experience and familiarity standpoint, no matter if his agent is Bob LaMonte or Jerry Maguire.

Again... not excited, have reservations about Childress, don't know what else was out there that was better though, and if Holmgren & Company are gonna have the chance to either hang themselves or show they know what they're doing, then this move makes perfect sense.

I mean, didja think they were gonna bring in someone that doesn't run the system they have put all their stock in? Why would they do that? They have professed live or die by the way they want to do things, so we'll just see what happens.

Who they pick up in FA and the draft matters a helluva lot more to me than which WCO stooge they bring in to help Shurmur find his way out of a closet.
Last edited by Hikohadon on Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4278
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:54 pm

Great thread already.

The Civil War promised less bloodshed.

Did you like how things were 5 years ago? No

What about three years ago? No

2 years ago? No

How about last year? No

So you like the change and the plan to bring in an experienced OC to take some of the responsibility off the HC? No

So you'd prefer it stay as it was? No

Did you hate Holmgren coming here? No

Do you like what he's done? No

So you'd prefer another reboot? No

So stay the course? No



Alrighty then. Take care.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22632
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:01 pm

bookelly wrote:Don't worry, it's all part of the master plan to contend in 2035. Just be patient.


I'm with you Boo. I'm patient. All these haters are going to be pissed in 2035 when Holmgren refuses to give them playoff tickets.
According to my sources CDT farts in the tub and bites the bubbles.
User avatar
motherscratcher
Little Larry Sellers
 
Posts: 7731
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:14 pm
Location: La La Land
Favorite Player: Ernie Camacho
Least Favorite Player: Jose Mesa

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:15 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
bookelly wrote:Don't worry, it's all part of the master plan to contend in 2035. Just be patient.


I'm with you Boo. I'm patient. All these haters are going to be pissed in 2035 when Holmgren refuses to give them playoff tickets.



Man. I'm hoping either you or I have met our fate by then just so I don't have to deal with you beyond that time.

;-) ;) :wink:
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22632
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby HoodooMan » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:35 am

Hikohadon wrote:You will never be able to out-shout the Circle Jerk of Despair when it is in full throttle.

I, for one, embrace our new alien overlords.


I remember going to a game in Cincinnati back in 2000, and I remember thinking how pathetically bitter and angry and all-around negative the mood of that stadium was.

11ish years later, aaaaaaaaaaand there we are.

It's so bad that, really, it could even make a bad football move (like overpaying in a trade-up for Luck or RG3) a defensible move, because what this fanbase irrationally and stupidly seems to need most is a Savior, someone to write stupid songs about ("R-G, R-G. Oh, yeah! How you can throw! Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, R-G, R-G, Oh Baby, Superbowl! ..."), someone's jersey to buy, that sort of thing.
Last edited by HoodooMan on Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Q: What is the best/craziest location you've ever gotten lucky A: Mens room. Death Valley. (Fire Marshall Bill, 08/13/10)

...doesn't mean we cannot call you a spade when you are one. (donnyunitas, 10/21/09)

Plus it's kinda personal for me... I have a lot of family and friends who are Ducks... (angrybeaver, 11/08/09)
User avatar
HoodooMan
The King
 
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:04 pm
Favorite Player: Big_Lu
Least Favorite Player: Foldtop Sandwich Bag

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:36 am

Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:No, just me. Other than the snarky bit at the end, what did I write that wasn't true? I know you're a member of the Walrus Uber Alles club, but are you seriously going to tell me that yet another Bob LoMonte hire doesn't make you go hmmmmmmmmm? At least a little bit?


I like that name. Not totally true, but if we must paint everything as Black & White...

I don't give a damn about the agent. Maybe they got a group discount. To me, Childress makes sense from an experience and familiarity standpoint, no matter if his agent is Bob LaMonte or Jerry Maguire.

Again... not excited, have reservations about Childress, don't know what else was out there that was better though, and if Holmgren & Company are gonna have the chance to either hang themselves or show they know what they're doing, then this move makes perfect sense.

I mean, didja think they were gonna bring in someone that doesn't run the system they have put all their stock in? Why would they do that? They have professed live or die by the way they want to do things, so we'll just see what happens.


No, I thought they would bring in someone who fit the criteria - and that was one of about 3 guys. So the Childress hire is not in any way a surprise. Just cannot believe peeps are all up in arms one way or the other. And like it or not, the agent is part of the criteria.
I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever.
- CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team
User avatar
mattvan1
 
Posts: 3659
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:41 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:10 am

peeker643 wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:^ you are clearly a Holmgren hater and he is clearly your white whale.


You lack creativity and, more importantly, originality. And I think your vag needs wiped.

Waiting for some sign of intelligence and wondering how you can turn this into "THIS IS GILBERT'S FAULT FOR WINNING AND GOING TO THE FINALS AND MAKING MONEY AND NOT SPENDING EVEN MORE AND I HATE HIM SO BAAAAAAAAAAD"

Now, kindly keep your inane ramblings and your tin foil hatting in the thread where it was at least contained.

Your anticipated cooperation is appreciated.

:salute:


Glad because of a few drunken tweets I've lost it to you, because you are the one lost, straight up. Either you straight forgot how to read me or you are so beat at this point you cannot read anything but black and white while speaking gray.

This is the story: Dolan and GIlbert and weird cousins, they both suck and they both want to make money at the end of the day from their franchises, this comes from non-billionaires buying sports franchises.

Gilbert is making his, Dolan ain't (he stupidly, somehow, thought he was buying the Jacobs era fanbase).

I hate seeing them compared to each other fiscally because end of the day both have the same goal.

Lerner, on the other hand, actually doesn't. He's a trust fund baby that holds the entire fortune (see Dolan, other, New York). He has no cares in the world and has no fault other than the fact that he cannot interview to hire for anything on earth. That said, his only fault it stupidity, guy tries, spends, tries somemore, etc.

Then walks in Holmes. Holmes has a track record and hires a good GM. His coaching hire is ass, his GM is taking the slow road to redemption, etc. Fans are overreacting to this because they see bad things coming with the coach in place combined with a slow rebuild (WHO CAN BLAME THEM). In this instance Lead and matt are reacting in a manor that reflects affirmation of this "agent gets his boys hired and who the fuck knows what happens because these guys all suck at football play calling" rather than clinging to "BUT THE GUY CAN DRAFT." Bow calls them h8ters. You call me angry. Etc... etc...

Gray shit exists and I live there more than you want to admit and matt lives there far more than hiko or bow want to admit.

But one person overreacts, the other draws a perma-conclusion and get a shit stew.

war: white dudes with keyboards

All I ask for is no one talking about Gilbert as some money burning funfest, all matt asks for is people acknowledging that this was a shit OC hire for a bad HC calling the plays without asking "WHO DO YOU SUGGEST!!!!" when honestly, that is why the fat fuck is getting billions a year.

We all have a middle we can reach. Be harsh reactions being met by overreactions spur.... motherscratcher
“Irony is wasted on the stupid” - Oscar Wilde
User avatar
e0y2e3
Et Tu, Brute?
 
Posts: 13982
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:41 pm
Favorite Player: Prosecutor
Least Favorite Player: motherscratcher

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:01 am

mattvan1 wrote:No, I thought they would bring in someone who fit the criteria - and that was one of about 3 guys. So the Childress hire is not in any way a surprise. Just cannot believe peeps are all up in arms one way or the other. And like it or not, the agent is part of the criteria.


I don't like it or not like it - I just don't give a fuck.

The agent angle to me is about furthering a talking point. So far, all of Holmgren's hires have been white males whose last names have between 6 and 9 letters that have either no facial hair or no hair on their heads. Let's beat the drums about that travesty while we're at it.

For all I know, they all have the same Proctologist. Christ in a handbasket, somebody call Tony Grossi!

When they start only signing/drafting players that have their agent, then I'll care.
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4278
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: No Childress Thread?!

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:21 am

Spin wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
Spin wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
Spin wrote:Was his Vikings offense THAT much better than Shurmer's offense this year???


2009 Minnesota Vikings
Total Offense - 5 (380 yards/game)
Total Points - 2 (470, 29.4 pts/game)
Passing Offense - 8 (4156 yards)
Rushing Offense - 13 (1918 yards)

The answer is: Yes, it was.


I was looking at his most recent year, 2010. 29th in scoring, 23rd in yards, fired after 10 games.


Ah, cherry picking to try and make your point. Gotcha.

I don't like the guy much myself, but he has experience, he's had some success, and at the absolute minimum is familiar with all the parties and is in lockstep schematically.

But I agree that this is probably a non-factor.


And you weren't?


Fair point.

I guess I was just looking up the one year I knew off the top of my head that Childress ran a good offense, knowing full well that Shurmur has never had one.

But maybe the discussion is moot since the Shurminator will retain playcalling. Awesome.
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4278
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:00 am

Hikohadon wrote:The agent angle to me is about furthering a talking point. So far, all of Holmgren's hires have been white males whose last names have between 6 and 9 letters that have either no facial hair or no hair on their heads. Let's beat the drums about that travesty while we're at it.


My point.... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is a fucking bad existence let alone bad business. I hope you write for a living Hiko, because this is Peeker talking about Gilbert in a baseball thread about Fat Albert shit.

The agent angle is real, take what you want from it but writing it off as nothing is absurd. It means something, we just have no fucking clue what that thing is.

All we know is that we struck gold or we struck limestone.
“Irony is wasted on the stupid” - Oscar Wilde
User avatar
e0y2e3
Et Tu, Brute?
 
Posts: 13982
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:41 pm
Favorite Player: Prosecutor
Least Favorite Player: motherscratcher

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:34 am

e0y2e3 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:The agent angle to me is about furthering a talking point. So far, all of Holmgren's hires have been white males whose last names have between 6 and 9 letters that have either no facial hair or no hair on their heads. Let's beat the drums about that travesty while we're at it.


My point.... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is a fucking bad existence let alone bad business. I hope you write for a living Hiko, because this is Peeker talking about Gilbert in a baseball thread about Fat Albert shit.

The agent angle is real, take what you want from it but writing it off as nothing is absurd. It means something, we just have no fucking clue what that thing is.

All we know is that we struck gold or we struck limestone.


I don't say there's absolutely nothing to it, I'm just not interested.

It might also be important to you that Holmgren is hiring only white guys. This might be your personal "wrong du jour" to expose and bleat about. I just personally don't care about it.

All of the guys that have been hired are experienced and make total sense (well, maybe except Shurmur) within what Holmgren is trying to do. They've all worked together, they all share a philosophy. Do they all have the same agents? Are they all white? Do they all use the same brand of toothpaste? I DON'T GIVE A FUCK.

You can make a big deal about the agent thing for all I care, but I haven't seen one person yet have a field day with it that hasn't been predisposed to hate everything that Holmgren does and wants to use any and all weaponry of complaint against him. They all know each other, they all have worked together, maybe that agent reps a bunch more of the guys from that group, maybe that agent reps a ton of guys in the coaching fraternity, maybe they say "Hey, you need an agent? My guy is good." I DON'T GIVE A FUCK.

See, now I have to be cast in a role of "Holmgren defender" just because I have to say "So fucking what?" when someone goes apeshit that Holmgren is only hiring Christians, because to someone on the extreme right, the center = hippy.

Like I said before, wake me when this agent thing involves players. Because if Holmgren & Co don't get it done, they'll be gone in a couple years (no matter who their agent is), but a lot of the players will remain.
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4278
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:43 am

See, now I have to be cast in a role of "Holmgren defender" just because I have to say "So fucking what?"


HA

Kinda like when pointing out how bad the rcvrs have been makes you a McCoy apologist, eh?
Hope is a moment now long past
The Shadow of Death is the one I cast
Koo koo ka joob....I am the Walrus
User avatar
Fire Marshall Bill
 
Posts: 2691
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:00 pm
Favorite Player: Killer Bean
Least Favorite Player: Charcoal&Piss

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:54 am

Hikohadon wrote: You can make a big deal about the agent thing for all I care, but I haven't seen one person yet have a field day with it that hasn't been predisposed to hate everything that Holmgren does and wants to use any and all weaponry of complaint against him. They all know each other, they all have worked together, maybe that agent reps a bunch more of the guys from that group, maybe that agent reps a ton of guys in the coaching fraternity, maybe they say "Hey, you need an agent? My guy is good." I DON'T GIVE A FUCK.


I'll put myself in the group (or one man wolf pack) that does not like the agent angle but is not necessarily a 100% Holmgren hater. I believe I was the guy who actually agreed with the lack of FA signings and like what Holmgren and Heckert have done in the draft. I also agreed with keeping Mangini, and said so at the time. So, this entire conversation is not about bashing everything the guy does - but it is a subset of the Shurmur hire threads, and it seems as if everyone is pretty consistent with their positions from 12 months ago - and I guess that is a good thing, in a way.

My whole point then, as it is now, is the criteria for hiring guys on the O side of the ball is so fucking narrow that there are never more than a mere handful of candidates from which to choose. Many here feel that is fine - Walrus knows what he wants and after all it's essentially his team and he can run it however the hell he decides. I see it as extremely short sighted. And that is really all there is to it.
I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever.
- CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team
User avatar
mattvan1
 
Posts: 3659
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:41 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:55 am

The people that choose to ignore the Lamont impact on the Browns are the same that were smart enough to know who Leo Strauss was and still ignored his impact on the Bush II cabinet/presidency.
“Irony is wasted on the stupid” - Oscar Wilde
User avatar
e0y2e3
Et Tu, Brute?
 
Posts: 13982
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:41 pm
Favorite Player: Prosecutor
Least Favorite Player: motherscratcher

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby bucknutz94 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:25 pm

I don't know how a big a deal all these guys having the same agent is or isn't. However, I do agree that it gives off an foul odor. Certainly Holmgren has heard the rumblings around town concerning his good 'ol boy network. And to that he says; "Fuck you, I'll hire whomever I want...so long as Uncle Bob gets his cut" (another qualification appears to be a less than stellar resume).

Just further proof that Mikey gives no shit how he is perceived. And further proof that Randy Lerner is out of touch.
bucknutz94
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 11:40 pm
Favorite Player: Billy Wood
Least Favorite Player: Jeff Downs

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby comish » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:51 pm

peeker643 wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:
bookelly wrote:Don't worry, it's all part of the master plan to contend in 2035. Just be patient.


I'm with you Boo. I'm patient. All these haters are going to be pissed in 2035 when Holmgren refuses to give them playoff tickets.



Man. I'm hoping either you or I have met our fate by then just so I don't have to deal with you beyond that time.

;-) ;) :wink:


Nostradamus and the Mayans are betting against us making it that far.

This hire just gets a shrug from me....can it really get any worse?

Speaking of worse, and maybe SLIGHTLY off topic....is it just me or is this THE WORST collection of Cleveland's sporting teams EVER? I dare someone to find a more disheartening and pathetic period of 3-5 years.
"Get busy living, or get busy dying."
User avatar
comish
Champion of Mediocrity
 
Posts: 1010
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:27 pm
Location: A local Pub

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby HoodooMan » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:51 pm

^^^SMH

mattvan1 wrote:My whole point then, as it is now, is the criteria for hiring guys on the O side of the ball is so fucking narrow that there are never more than a mere handful of candidates from which to choose. Many here feel that is fine - Walrus knows what he wants and after all it's essentially his team and he can run it however the hell he decides. I see it as extremely short sighted. And that is really all there is to it.


So you don't like that the organization has been WCO-moulded by Holmgren. I think this is strange, but whatever.

What does this have to do with the agent, again?

Do you think it's the agent who's influenced Holmgren to go after WCO guys?

Do you think there are other WCO guys out there we haven't gone after because they're not represented by the same agent? Not merely that the WCO guys Holmgren is closest to happen to be represented by the same agent, but there's a WCO guy out there he would have otherwise wanted to hire, but didn't, because he isn't represented by his agent?

And if so, WT-holy-MF'ing-F is in it for Holmgren? He's intentionally hiring lesser coaching candidates...to please his agent. He has the audacity to keep these lesser coaching candidates, once they've proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they're horrible...to please his agent. He's risking his substantial reputation, built over several decades...to please his agent. He's improving his chances to fail in what may very well be his last football job...to please his agent.

Are they fucking, possibly, do you think? Holmgren & LaMonte? Maybe LaMante threatened to withhold the finest cock in all of football if Holmgren failed to satisfy his every desire? Or is it something less sexy, but more evil, like Mike & Bob had similar traumatic childhood experiences where their asses uncontrollably, explosively, and unpredictably spewed pounds and pounds of shit into their pants, into their beds, into anything within ten feet of them (if their ass happened to be uncovered at the time, or if the fabric of their pants was too thin or possibly stretched & worn at the back seam); and over time these repeated assbursts conditioned them to an extreme aversion to all-things-shit, the most relevant of which (at least to this conversation) being the color brown, which naturally for two men in the football business led them to despise the Cleveland Browns? (OMG, NO BROWN JERSEYZ THIS YEAR; THIS IS PROBABLY REAL!!!) And after years of scheming, the two of them finally managed to gain control of the franchise, with the nefarious intention of taking a really bad team and...keeping it a really bad team, by purposely hiring shitty coaches and drafting & signing shitty players, and Bob Bwahs while Mike Hahs while we all suffer from the fruits of their unchecked evil?

Also, is it possible that Bob LaMonte was behind the controlled demolition of the WTC, and that his motivation was to scare us all about the possible repercussions of not being represented by Bob LaMonte?
Q: What is the best/craziest location you've ever gotten lucky A: Mens room. Death Valley. (Fire Marshall Bill, 08/13/10)

...doesn't mean we cannot call you a spade when you are one. (donnyunitas, 10/21/09)

Plus it's kinda personal for me... I have a lot of family and friends who are Ducks... (angrybeaver, 11/08/09)
User avatar
HoodooMan
The King
 
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:04 pm
Favorite Player: Big_Lu
Least Favorite Player: Foldtop Sandwich Bag

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:53 pm

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:
See, now I have to be cast in a role of "Holmgren defender" just because I have to say "So fucking what?"


HA

Kinda like when pointing out how bad the rcvrs have been makes you a McCoy apologist, eh?


Fair enough, although FTR my point is that our WR corps is probably not as bad some make it out to be, and the value of WR's in general is overblown.
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4278
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:14 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote: You can make a big deal about the agent thing for all I care, but I haven't seen one person yet have a field day with it that hasn't been predisposed to hate everything that Holmgren does and wants to use any and all weaponry of complaint against him. They all know each other, they all have worked together, maybe that agent reps a bunch more of the guys from that group, maybe that agent reps a ton of guys in the coaching fraternity, maybe they say "Hey, you need an agent? My guy is good." I DON'T GIVE A FUCK.


I'll put myself in the group (or one man wolf pack) that does not like the agent angle but is not necessarily a 100% Holmgren hater. I believe I was the guy who actually agreed with the lack of FA signings and like what Holmgren and Heckert have done in the draft. I also agreed with keeping Mangini, and said so at the time. So, this entire conversation is not about bashing everything the guy does - but it is a subset of the Shurmur hire threads, and it seems as if everyone is pretty consistent with their positions from 12 months ago - and I guess that is a good thing, in a way.

My whole point then, as it is now, is the criteria for hiring guys on the O side of the ball is so fucking narrow that there are never more than a mere handful of candidates from which to choose. Many here feel that is fine - Walrus knows what he wants and after all it's essentially his team and he can run it however the hell he decides. I see it as extremely short sighted. And that is really all there is to it.


We've had this discussion before and I still don't get where you're coming from.

Mike Holmgren is a WCO guy. He realizes that there are other ways to win, but he is most familiar with the WCO approach. He's used it with success everywhere he's gone, and it's being used with success around the league at present. Naturally, he's going to want to use a method to build this team that he feels is tried and true. Why would he not? Why would he just out of the blue decide to try something new when his normal way has worked for him every time in the past?

And also naturally, he's going to hire people that are familiar with his method, people that he's familiar with, people he trusts.

This is just logical.

Now, whether or not he will be successful here is highly debatable. Whether or not Shurmur is competent enough to actually achieve the things they are trying to create is highly debatable. Just because a guy understands and believes in your system doesn't mean he can execute it.

But I don't get for one minute the complaints that the Boss is bringing in "his" guys to run things "his" way, because I know if I were him, I'd do the same damn thing (although "my way" might not be the WCO, but that's neither here nor there).

And I'm fucking ECSTATIC that he doesn't give a FUCK what we think.
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4278
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby swerb » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:27 pm

My whole thing with it is that I just don't think Holmgren has any idea what he's doing. Most fans still want to give him the benefit of the doubt, even though the team has gone 7-25 and regressed (at best, made zero progress) since he took over.

He won a SB as a coach with a team that was handed to him by Ron Wolf. And then destroyed the team in Seattle after they gave him full control. If he wants to come down to the sidelines, I'm all for it. But running the whole org? Him and his stubborn ass attitude and Rolodex with six cards in it on his desk next to his framed photo of Bob LaMonte?

Pat Fucking Shurmur. Is really all you need to say. Jim Zorn Lite. The latest member of The Bob LaMonte Coaching Tree to prove overmatched running an entire team. Zorn, Childress, Mornihweg, Sherman, Jauron, Mariucci, Rhodes. And Shurmur.

Hood winked Randy.

Again.

Image
"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

http://www.twitter.com/theclevelandfan
User avatar
swerb
JoBu's bee-yotch
 
Posts: 17917
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:04 pm
Location: Twinsburg, OH
Favorite Player: Mango Hab
Least Favorite Player: Bob LaMonte

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby gameface » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:32 pm

Playcalling is overrated.

Get superior talent and run off tackle and throw post routes.

Arians sucked in Cleveland, wins a Lombardi in Pittsburgh.

Chudzinski and even Dabol look so much more talented playing chess with better rosters.

This hire does not put us in the playoffs or doom us to failure. This next draft will do that trick.
gameface
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:28 pm

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby HoodooMan » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:35 pm

swerb wrote:And then destroyed the team in Seattle after they gave him full control.


::doh::

He had 7 winning seasons in 10 years in Seattle, and he had a Super Bowl win stolen from him by the refs. This, for a franchise that hadn't had a winning season in any of the previous 8 years, and for which you had to go back to 1979 to get to their 7th winning season before his arrival.

If that's destruction, please, Mike, destroy away!
Q: What is the best/craziest location you've ever gotten lucky A: Mens room. Death Valley. (Fire Marshall Bill, 08/13/10)

...doesn't mean we cannot call you a spade when you are one. (donnyunitas, 10/21/09)

Plus it's kinda personal for me... I have a lot of family and friends who are Ducks... (angrybeaver, 11/08/09)
User avatar
HoodooMan
The King
 
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:04 pm
Favorite Player: Big_Lu
Least Favorite Player: Foldtop Sandwich Bag

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby swerb » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:01 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
swerb wrote:And then destroyed the team in Seattle after they gave him full control.


::doh::

He had 7 winning seasons in 10 years in Seattle, and he had a Super Bowl win stolen from him by the refs. This, for a franchise that hadn't had a winning season in any of the previous 8 years, and for which you had to go back to 1979 to get to their 7th winning season before his arrival.

If that's destruction, please, Mike, destroy away!

I'm talking exclusively about the direction of the team after he wrestled away full control. Which was down. Every year until he "retired".

I'm not sure why Holmgren's coaching prowess should mean that he can run an org. Especially after we've seen guys like Butch and Mangenius here that can coach but couldn't put together a plan and the coaching and talent. And especially seeing that Walrus failed at it in Seattle.
"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

http://www.twitter.com/theclevelandfan
User avatar
swerb
JoBu's bee-yotch
 
Posts: 17917
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:04 pm
Location: Twinsburg, OH
Favorite Player: Mango Hab
Least Favorite Player: Bob LaMonte

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:09 pm

^ ^ Two people making my point about extremes too easy....

Holmes was hired with full-control and moved into pure mediocrity. He was "fired" from being GM in 2002 then went on a 6 year coaching bender that showed a lot of success and improvement till the franchise got Tressel style staled out under his system.

He was unanimously a failure as a GM in Seattle, no argument there, but he didn't wrestle control form anyone.

And no, rather than just running a WCO organization he's literally running a fraternity.

When Urban Meyer got hired at OSU everyone tried to nail down who all of his assistants would be and trace his past ties, people hit on like 40% of em because he went outside the box for coaching talent.

What connections does Sherman have to Miami?

Hiring guys that fit your style is one thing, but hiring out of a collection of 15 dudes who lived in the same frat house (LaMontatchya!!) is fucking sad and a joke.
“Irony is wasted on the stupid” - Oscar Wilde
User avatar
e0y2e3
Et Tu, Brute?
 
Posts: 13982
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:41 pm
Favorite Player: Prosecutor
Least Favorite Player: motherscratcher

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:12 pm

swerb wrote:My whole thing with it is that I just don't think Holmgren has any idea what he's doing. Most fans still want to give him the benefit of the doubt, even though the team has gone 7-25 and regressed (at best, made zero progress) since he took over.


I'll ignore the rest of your rant since you're too intelligent to be held responsible for something like that. Maybe you just stubbed your toe or found out your car needs a new transmission.

Holmgren is exactly one year into his "program". Year One was wasted on the Mangini Experiment. The only thing the Holmgren regime did in Year One was acquire some players. Implementing the WCO system? Nada.

So his people has had one year (sans offseason) to put their shit into place.

I think any rational human being might be inclined to give someone with Holmgren's track record the benefit of the doubt after such a brief time.

Now, I can totally understand the Shurmur frustration, since he has been pretty disastrous in his first season. And I can see feeling like Holmgren hiring Shurmur = Holmgren is incompetent.

But we must remember that his "way" has had ONE year, his people have had ONE year, and even as bad as Shurmur was, it's freakin' insane to scream for a reboot already.

And it ain't happening anyway in 2012 anyway. Pissing in the wind, et al.

PS: 5-11 + 4-12 = 9-23... see, much better! ;-) ;) :wink:
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4278
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby HoodooMan » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:14 pm

swerb wrote:I'm talking exclusively about the direction of the team after he wrestled away full control. Which was down. Every year until he "retired".


e0's right about him losing full control rather than wrestling it away, but he had one bad year to close out his time in Seattle; before that he'd won 10, 9, 13, 9, 10. That doesn't seem like a downward trend to me. That looks like sustained success.
Q: What is the best/craziest location you've ever gotten lucky A: Mens room. Death Valley. (Fire Marshall Bill, 08/13/10)

...doesn't mean we cannot call you a spade when you are one. (donnyunitas, 10/21/09)

Plus it's kinda personal for me... I have a lot of family and friends who are Ducks... (angrybeaver, 11/08/09)
User avatar
HoodooMan
The King
 
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:04 pm
Favorite Player: Big_Lu
Least Favorite Player: Foldtop Sandwich Bag

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:17 pm

Hikohadon wrote:Holmgren is exactly one year into his "program". Year One was wasted on the Mangini Experiment. The only thing the Holmgren regime did in Year One was acquire some players. Implementing the WCO system? Nada.

So his people has had one year (sans offseason) to put their shit into place.


Now this is fucking idiocracy.

Holmes used year one with Mangini to get dumb fucks to say exactly what you just said (not calling you dumb!!!).

Acquiring players that fit his style year one, which is what he did, counts every bit as much as having his bullshit coaching staff in place. Fucking look at the difference a good coach made in SF this year? Coaching talent can walk into talented players and will make something happen, it's not like Holmes wasted a year drafting a bunch of 3-4/power running O players for Mangini.

You're not an idiot Chris.
“Irony is wasted on the stupid” - Oscar Wilde
User avatar
e0y2e3
Et Tu, Brute?
 
Posts: 13982
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:41 pm
Favorite Player: Prosecutor
Least Favorite Player: motherscratcher

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby HoodooMan » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:17 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Hiring guys that fit your style is one thing, but hiring out of a collection of 15 dudes who lived in the same frat house (LaMontatchya!!) is fucking sad and a joke.


SMH.
Q: What is the best/craziest location you've ever gotten lucky A: Mens room. Death Valley. (Fire Marshall Bill, 08/13/10)

...doesn't mean we cannot call you a spade when you are one. (donnyunitas, 10/21/09)

Plus it's kinda personal for me... I have a lot of family and friends who are Ducks... (angrybeaver, 11/08/09)
User avatar
HoodooMan
The King
 
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:04 pm
Favorite Player: Big_Lu
Least Favorite Player: Foldtop Sandwich Bag

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:19 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
swerb wrote:I'm talking exclusively about the direction of the team after he wrestled away full control. Which was down. Every year until he "retired".


e0's right about him losing full control rather than wrestling it away, but he had one bad year to close out his time in Seattle; before that he'd won 10, 9, 13, 9, 10. That doesn't seem like a downward trend to me. That looks like sustained success.


He was Sweatervest, pro-version in Seattle and that is what Swerb is referring too. A good team that was fun and okay, but never really elite after Alexander died, stud-O line become okay and Matty H didn't have a career year.

Which is weird as hell to me because Swerb loves him some Tressball.
“Irony is wasted on the stupid” - Oscar Wilde
User avatar
e0y2e3
Et Tu, Brute?
 
Posts: 13982
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:41 pm
Favorite Player: Prosecutor
Least Favorite Player: motherscratcher

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:21 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Hiring guys that fit your style is one thing, but hiring out of a collection of 15 dudes who lived in the same frat house (LaMontatchya!!) is fucking sad and a joke.


SMH.


Do you think Heckert would have this coaching staff in place were he allowed to control something other than the draft?

Fuck, do you think any competent GM/Prez would?
“Irony is wasted on the stupid” - Oscar Wilde
User avatar
e0y2e3
Et Tu, Brute?
 
Posts: 13982
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:41 pm
Favorite Player: Prosecutor
Least Favorite Player: motherscratcher

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:28 pm

Also, who in the fuck still smokes cigarettes? That picture swerb keeps posting pisses me off to no end.... WHY IS HE PLAYING BIG PIMPING AND NOT SMOKING A BLUNT OR A CIGAR?!?!?!
“Irony is wasted on the stupid” - Oscar Wilde
User avatar
e0y2e3
Et Tu, Brute?
 
Posts: 13982
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:41 pm
Favorite Player: Prosecutor
Least Favorite Player: motherscratcher

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:29 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Holmgren is exactly one year into his "program". Year One was wasted on the Mangini Experiment. The only thing the Holmgren regime did in Year One was acquire some players. Implementing the WCO system? Nada.

So his people has had one year (sans offseason) to put their shit into place.


Acquiring players that fit his style year one, which is what he did, counts every bit as much as having his bullshit coaching staff in place.


I'm not calling you stupid either, but that statement sure is.

He's clearly had 2 years of talent acquisition, and talent trumps all. But the Browns didn't start with as much talent as SF, and he's only had one year of installing his system. I'd give almost anyone a 2nd year to prove that they can implement their system, even Shurmur (although I have huge doubts about him).

e0y2e3 wrote:Fucking look at the difference a good coach made in SF this year? Coaching talent can walk into talented players and will make something happen, it's not like Holmes wasted a year drafting a bunch of 3-4/power running O players for Mangini.


No shit.

But those players they acquired still had to run the 3-4. They still had to run whatever the fuck that Daboll thought he was running.

None of the current coaches were here. The system wasn't here. No one was running that system.

So in what way, pray tell, did that first year involve Holmgren implementing "his" system? They were secretly teaching them the basics of the WCO while Mangini wasn't looking?

I didn't say that Holmgren wasn't 2 years into his "regime". I said he's not 2 years into his "system". He completely wasted that first year, and he should be held responsible for that.
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4278
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:29 pm

And is that a gawd damn slushy IN HIS HAND!!!!
“Irony is wasted on the stupid” - Oscar Wilde
User avatar
e0y2e3
Et Tu, Brute?
 
Posts: 13982
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:41 pm
Favorite Player: Prosecutor
Least Favorite Player: motherscratcher

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:32 pm

And now is the time on Sprockets when we bow out of this argument b/c it's useless.

There is no stopping the Circle Jerk of Despair when it gets rolling. No one wants to be the one that has to eat the cookie.
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4278
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:36 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Holmgren is exactly one year into his "program". Year One was wasted on the Mangini Experiment. The only thing the Holmgren regime did in Year One was acquire some players. Implementing the WCO system? Nada.

So his people has had one year (sans offseason) to put their shit into place.


Acquiring players that fit his style year one, which is what he did, counts every bit as much as having his bullshit coaching staff in place.


I'm not calling you stupid either, but that statement sure is.

He's clearly had 2 years of talent acquisition, and talent trumps all. But the Browns didn't start with as much talent as SF, and he's only had one year of installing his system. I'd give almost anyone a 2nd year to prove that they can implement their system, even Shurmur (although I have huge doubts about him).

e0y2e3 wrote:Fucking look at the difference a good coach made in SF this year? Coaching talent can walk into talented players and will make something happen, it's not like Holmes wasted a year drafting a bunch of 3-4/power running O players for Mangini.


No shit.

But those players they acquired still had to run the 3-4. They still had to run whatever the fuck that Daboll thought he was running.

None of the current coaches were here. The system wasn't here. No one was running that system.

So in what way, pray tell, did that first year involve Holmgren implementing "his" system? They were secretly teaching them the basics of the WCO while Mangini wasn't looking?

I didn't say that Holmgren wasn't 2 years into his "regime". I said he's not 2 years into his "system". He completely wasted that first year, and he should be held responsible for that.


Honestly, when is the last time the system implementation argument was valid in the NFL?

You can play or you can't at this point in the league. Teams like the Pats and Rats switch between the 3-4 and 4-3 every other year, teams decide to run a WCO Holmes style for entire training camps for Kevin Kolb, realize he sucks, then implement a Vick WCO.

You're regurgitating a bullshit talking point.

Talent trumps all, but coaches either know how to use talent or they don't.

I'm not arguing against giving Holmes and crew more time, BTW, just saying that this "one year!!" argument is silly. I tend to agree with DooDoo, might as well give Holmes all the time in the world, because if this "system" fails your up for another year of roster purging and two more years of talent acquisition just to get back to square now.
“Irony is wasted on the stupid” - Oscar Wilde
User avatar
e0y2e3
Et Tu, Brute?
 
Posts: 13982
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:41 pm
Favorite Player: Prosecutor
Least Favorite Player: motherscratcher

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby HoodooMan » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:15 pm

<--still waiting for a semi-plausible theory that makes the LaMonte thread a concern.

(Assuming, of course, my homosexual affair & poop conditioning theories have been rejected as implausible.)

Something that strikes me as plausible:

-Holmgren becomes successful coach

-Holmgren likes his agent

-Holmgren encourages his treelings to use his agent

-Lots of them do

-When the time comes for Holmgren to put together a coaching staff, he hires some of those treelings, because they're his guys, and NFL people generally seem to like to surround themselves with their own guys

Nothing shadowy or suspicious. Just a mundane, who gives a shit, common thread.

The End
Q: What is the best/craziest location you've ever gotten lucky A: Mens room. Death Valley. (Fire Marshall Bill, 08/13/10)

...doesn't mean we cannot call you a spade when you are one. (donnyunitas, 10/21/09)

Plus it's kinda personal for me... I have a lot of family and friends who are Ducks... (angrybeaver, 11/08/09)
User avatar
HoodooMan
The King
 
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:04 pm
Favorite Player: Big_Lu
Least Favorite Player: Foldtop Sandwich Bag

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby HoodooMan » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:19 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:He was Sweatervest, pro-version in Seattle and that is what Swerb is referring too. A good team that was fun and okay, but never really elite after Alexander died, stud-O line become okay and Matty H didn't have a career year.


5 straight playoff appearances. Should have won a Super Bowl.

With Matt Hasselbeck. <--Something, I'm told, likely isn't possible.

Trashing Holmgren's record before he got here isn't the path to undermining what he's done since he's been here. It just isn't.
Q: What is the best/craziest location you've ever gotten lucky A: Mens room. Death Valley. (Fire Marshall Bill, 08/13/10)

...doesn't mean we cannot call you a spade when you are one. (donnyunitas, 10/21/09)

Plus it's kinda personal for me... I have a lot of family and friends who are Ducks... (angrybeaver, 11/08/09)
User avatar
HoodooMan
The King
 
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:04 pm
Favorite Player: Big_Lu
Least Favorite Player: Foldtop Sandwich Bag

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:30 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Honestly, when is the last time the system implementation argument was valid in the NFL?

You can play or you can't at this point in the league. Teams like the Pats and Rats switch between the 3-4 and 4-3 every other year, teams decide to run a WCO Holmes style for entire training camps for Kevin Kolb, realize he sucks, then implement a Vick WCO.

You're regurgitating a bullshit talking point.

Talent trumps all, but coaches either know how to use talent or they don't.

I'm not arguing against giving Holmes and crew more time, BTW, just saying that this "one year!!" argument is silly. I tend to agree with DooDoo, might as well give Holmes all the time in the world, because if this "system" fails your up for another year of roster purging and two more years of talent acquisition just to get back to square now.


I tend to agree with you. Talent trumps system. Good coaching can overcome deficiencies.

My point was made towards the aspersion that Holmgren is 7-25 since he came here (9-23). Mangini was 5-11 - that was clearly a Holmgren mistake b/c that season was clearly not the way he wanted things to run. So, doing the things the way HE wants done, Holmgren & Co are 4-12. Shitty, yes. One year of data, yes.

But if you want to count the Mangini year as "the way Holmgren wants to run things", then you go ahead. I don't give a shit.

Personally, I hold "letting Mangini stay and do things his way" more against Holmgren than if Holmgren had hired Shurmur in 2010 and gotten 5-11 and 4-12 seasons, since at least he would've been doing things the way he thought they should be done and just not getting it done rather than letting some guy stick around just to be nice even though you have serious questions about the way he does things.

It don't matter anyway - if Holmgren & Co fail then we all agree that we might as well go out and shoot ourselves.
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4278
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:51 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
Fire Marshall Bill wrote:
See, now I have to be cast in a role of "Holmgren defender" just because I have to say "So fucking what?"


HA

Kinda like when pointing out how bad the rcvrs have been makes you a McCoy apologist, eh?


Fair enough, although FTR my point is that our WR corps is probably not as bad some make it out to be, and the value of WR's in general is overblown.


You get Eli Manning and Tom Brady to agree with that and I'll cry uncle....

The truth is on the field and in the highlight reels and I shouldn't need to list their names...

Throw it to a spot....go up and get it

Its been the rule since the days of John Hadl and Bambi

Twist, turn, extend, sacrifice...the names may change and the drafte slots may vary but, exemplary play is the common denominator

...and FTR I'm all about RG3 and Wright in the 1st rnd
Hope is a moment now long past
The Shadow of Death is the one I cast
Koo koo ka joob....I am the Walrus
User avatar
Fire Marshall Bill
 
Posts: 2691
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:00 pm
Favorite Player: Killer Bean
Least Favorite Player: Charcoal&Piss

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:18 pm

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:You get Eli Manning and Tom Brady to agree with that and I'll cry uncle....

The truth is on the field and in the highlight reels and I shouldn't need to list their names...

Throw it to a spot....go up and get it

Its been the rule since the days of John Hadl and Bambi

Twist, turn, extend, sacrifice...the names may change and the drafte slots may vary but, exemplary play is the common denominator

...and FTR I'm all about RG3 and Wright in the 1st rnd


Please don't interpret me as saying WR aren't important and are as interchangeable as lightbulbs.

It's just that their production is completely and wholly dependent on the QB's ability to get them the ball. Sure, they have to get open, sure, they have to outfight the DB for the ball, but if the QB doesn't throw it to them or throws it inaccurately, it doesn't matter what they do.

And...

New England -
Wes Welker - Undrafted, 3rd team
Deion Branch - 2nd round, 3rd team
Julian Edelman - 7th round
Rob Gronkowski - 2nd round
Aaron Hernandez - 4th round

New York Giants -
Hakeem Nicks - End of 1st round
Victor Cruz - Undrafted
Mario Manningham - 3rd round
Jake Ballard - Undrafted
Bear Pascoe - Undrafted
Travis Beckum - 3rd round

Cleveland Browns
Greg Little - 2nd round
Mo Massaquoi - 2nd round
Josh Cribbs - Undrafted
Jordan Norwood - Undrafted
Ben Watson - End of 1st round, 3rd team
Evan Moore - Undrafted

I would say that it was disingenuous to claim that the only reason these 3 corps are different is that the Giants and Pats have vastly superior talent evaluation skills.

And, yes, the Browns need another starting WR for sure.
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4278
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:48 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:^ you are clearly a Holmgren hater and he is clearly your white whale.


You lack creativity and, more importantly, originality. And I think your vag needs wiped.

Waiting for some sign of intelligence and wondering how you can turn this into "THIS IS GILBERT'S FAULT FOR WINNING AND GOING TO THE FINALS AND MAKING MONEY AND NOT SPENDING EVEN MORE AND I HATE HIM SO BAAAAAAAAAAD"

Now, kindly keep your inane ramblings and your tin foil hatting in the thread where it was at least contained.

Your anticipated cooperation is appreciated.

:salute:


Glad because of a few drunken tweets I've lost it to you, because you are the one lost, straight up. Either you straight forgot how to read me or you are so beat at this point you cannot read anything but black and white while speaking gray.

This is the story: Dolan and GIlbert and weird cousins, they both suck and they both want to make money at the end of the day from their franchises, this comes from non-billionaires buying sports franchises.

Gilbert is making his, Dolan ain't (he stupidly, somehow, thought he was buying the Jacobs era fanbase).

I hate seeing them compared to each other fiscally because end of the day both have the same goal.

Lerner, on the other hand, actually doesn't. He's a trust fund baby that holds the entire fortune (see Dolan, other, New York). He has no cares in the world and has no fault other than the fact that he cannot interview to hire for anything on earth. That said, his only fault it stupidity, guy tries, spends, tries somemore, etc.

Then walks in Holmes. Holmes has a track record and hires a good GM. His coaching hire is ass, his GM is taking the slow road to redemption, etc. Fans are overreacting to this because they see bad things coming with the coach in place combined with a slow rebuild (WHO CAN BLAME THEM). In this instance Lead and matt are reacting in a manor that reflects affirmation of this "agent gets his boys hired and who the fuck knows what happens because these guys all suck at football play calling" rather than clinging to "BUT THE GUY CAN DRAFT." Bow calls them h8ters. You call me angry. Etc... etc...

Gray shit exists and I live there more than you want to admit and matt lives there far more than hiko or bow want to admit.

But one person overreacts, the other draws a perma-conclusion and get a shit stew.

war: white dudes with keyboards

All I ask for is no one talking about Gilbert as some money burning funfest, all matt asks for is people acknowledging that this was a shit OC hire for a bad HC calling the plays without asking "WHO DO YOU SUGGEST!!!!" when honestly, that is why the fat fuck is getting billions a year.

We all have a middle we can reach. Be harsh reactions being met by overreactions spur.... motherscratcher


Translation: I'm the smartest guy in the room. I'm going to blame others for my dumbass Gilbert hate in a Prince Fielder thread, I shall try and confuse some of you idiots by blending in some thoughts and opinions of others in a completely different thread to cover my dumbass remarks in that other thread and how dare you question me when sentence number one still applies. I'm also to to scold people for disagreeing with the douchebaggiest method of telling them they're not that dumb and I will continue to ignore the issue that my initial Gilbert take was folly with no basis in fact, history or actuality and that I'm scrambling like a mofo to not look like a bigger tool.

There. I'll stop with the amateur (and accurate) translations when you come correct one way or the other. Otherwise, stick with scarecrows and revisionist history even though the thread is right there for all to see.

Oh... As to Childress and so we remain on topic: still don't give a shit. This organization will get it right or theyll get it wrong. Count me as a Hiko/Bow blend in terms of this move and the RGIII need and a Lead Pipe/Matt/Swerb blend on the org (with just enough of a Bow/Hiko hedge to hold out hope). Plus I mentioned some big hitters in a positive light and maybe we're now board allies!!!!!!!!!!! See, I don't ignore the good and 'clever' things you do. It's you that can't read me any more, amigo.

Salud!!!!!

:cheers:
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22632
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:03 pm

peeker643 wrote: Count me as a Hiko/Bow blend in terms of this move and the RGIII need and a Lead Pipe/Matt/Swerb blend on the org (with just enough of a Bow/Hiko hedge to hold out hope). Plus I mentioned some big hitters in a positive light and maybe we're now board allies!!!!!!!!!!! See, I don't ignore the good and 'clever' things you do. It's you that can't read me any more, amigo.

Salud!!!!!

:cheers:


Image
I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever.
- CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team
User avatar
mattvan1
 
Posts: 3659
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:41 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:39 pm

HoodooMan wrote:<--still waiting for a semi-plausible theory that makes the LaMonte thread a concern.

(Assuming, of course, my homosexual affair & poop conditioning theories have been rejected as implausible.)

Something that strikes me as plausible:

-Holmgren becomes successful coach

-Holmgren likes his agent

-Holmgren encourages his treelings to use his agent

-Lots of them do

-When the time comes for Holmgren to put together a coaching staff, he hires some of those treelings, because they're his guys, and NFL people generally seem to like to surround themselves with their own guys

Nothing shadowy or suspicious. Just a mundane, who gives a shit, common thread.

The End


As an observation that makes you go bat shit crazy in defending the Walrus regime, the "LaMonte opening" will go down in history as a classical first move gambit.

Doing a bit of research on the man now - and not sure it's worthy of the Warren Commission, but not sure it's quite as innocuous as you make it out to be. Again, as Lee wrote above - it's a small fraternity from which the Walrus draws his charges. And as you suggest above, there is probably nothing wrong with that. But anyone who suggests that Big Mike is too inwardly focused gets the death penalty for having un-loyal thoughts.

And BTW, NFL people tend to surround themselves with people who will make them successful, not necessarily another Delta Tau Chi brother.
I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever.
- CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team
User avatar
mattvan1
 
Posts: 3659
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:41 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby LakeErieWarriors » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:24 pm

Gotta have faith in the Walrus. Needed an OC and we got one. Could we have gotten a better one? Maybe, but we coulda done worse (I think). For some reason, the market for coaches right now is dental floss thin. It's really hard to predict how this will turn out mainly because this years draft might be the biggest the new team has ever had. I think the Browns will improve; the question is how much? Hopefully they bring themselves at least up to mediocrity; that's a start.
"Last time I saw a mouth like that, it had a hook in it!" -Al Czervik
LakeErieWarriors
 
Posts: 455
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:01 am
Location: Huron, OH
Favorite Player: Browns Draft
Least Favorite Player: Browns Training Camp

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:36 pm

mattvan1 wrote:As an observation that makes you go bat shit crazy in defending the Walrus regime, the "LaMonte opening" will go down in history as a classical first move gambit.

Doing a bit of research on the man now - and not sure it's worthy of the Warren Commission, but not sure it's quite as innocuous as you make it out to be. Again, as Lee wrote above - it's a small fraternity from which the Walrus draws his charges. And as you suggest above, there is probably nothing wrong with that. But anyone who suggests that Big Mike is too inwardly focused gets the death penalty for having un-loyal thoughts.

And BTW, NFL people tend to surround themselves with people who will make them successful, not necessarily another Delta Tau Chi brother.


So your assertion is that Holmgren is purposely selecting people that are not what he feels are the best candidates for the job in order to grease his agent's palms and surround himself with yes-men?

Is there any exploding paint involved?
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4278
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: Browns hire Brad Childress as OC

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:40 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:As an observation that makes you go bat shit crazy in defending the Walrus regime, the "LaMonte opening" will go down in history as a classical first move gambit.

Doing a bit of research on the man now - and not sure it's worthy of the Warren Commission, but not sure it's quite as innocuous as you make it out to be. Again, as Lee wrote above - it's a small fraternity from which the Walrus draws his charges. And as you suggest above, there is probably nothing wrong with that. But anyone who suggests that Big Mike is too inwardly focused gets the death penalty for having un-loyal thoughts.

And BTW, NFL people tend to surround themselves with people who will make them successful, not necessarily another Delta Tau Chi brother.


So your assertion is that Holmgren is purposely selecting people that are not what he feels are the best candidates for the job in order to grease his agent's palms and surround himself with yes-men?

Is there any exploding paint involved?


No and no.

Next question.

ETA - What part of "as you suggest, there is probably nothing wrong with that" is unclear? Not sure I ever said that LaMonte ran things in Berea or that he controlled Holmgren's thoughts or was slipping LSD into the drinking water on Lou Groza Blvd. All I did was point out that LaMonte representation seemed to be part of the Walrus hiring criteria and that it made me go hmmmmmmmmmm. You and Bow/Hoo Doo are convinced it doesn't matter and/or don't give a fuck. I think it's at the very least worth mentioning and also a bit troublesome. The angst surrounding the discussion is confusing - I guess we each feel the other is suffering from some type of brain dysfunction for not seeing things the "right" way.

The good news is since the staff is in place through the end of 2012 at least, we can push the "LaMonte Conspiracy Theory" to the back burner for awhile.
Last edited by mattvan1 on Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever.
- CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team
User avatar
mattvan1
 
Posts: 3659
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:41 pm
Location: Houston

PreviousNext

Return to Cleveland Browns & The NFL

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Erie Warrior and 4 guests

Who is online

In total there are 5 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 4 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 181 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:50 pm

Users browsing this forum: Erie Warrior and 4 guests