Moderators: peeker643, swerb, pup, paulcousineau
by pod2dawg » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:09 pm
skatingtripods wrote:The Indians are also applauded for their player evaluation techniques and Mark Shapiro is rumored to be a candidate to replace Bud Selig when he retires.
by gotribe31 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:11 pm
by Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:17 pm
by DeanSheen » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:33 pm
by redneckofsc » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:48 pm
by phutatorius » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:51 pm
by andrew6586 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:02 am
by bookelly » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:12 am
by pup » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:39 am
by peeker643 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:44 am
by Jumbo » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:46 am
by aldamon » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:46 am
by Gradysmanldy » Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:12 am
by skatingtripods » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:09 pm
peeker643 wrote:Ilitch is 82 years old and also owns the Red Wings. He's in the NHL and US Hockey Hall of Fame. He's an icon in Detroit because of what he's done sports-wise there.Now, is what he's doing with the Tigers sustainable? Probably not. The franchise is highly leveraged and I read something where only two other teams carry higher debt to value ratios.
by WiscTribeFan » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:14 pm
gotribe31 wrote:Aaaaaaand SCENE!C'mon Peek, we're there now. Not denying the fact that e0 or Dave could come in and really push us over the top, but this is still pretty classic.
by WiscTribeFan » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:17 pm
skatingtripods wrote:Forbes says the Tigers operating income from 2008-2010 was a negative 26-29 million dollars from 08-10. No way the Dolans could live like that.
by peeker643 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:31 pm
WiscTribeFan wrote:skatingtripods wrote:Forbes says the Tigers operating income from 2008-2010 was a negative 26-29 million dollars from 08-10. No way the Dolans could live like that.Very few businessmen would. Dick Jacobs wouldn't have.
by peeker643 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:34 pm
by scott » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:08 pm
peeker643 wrote:WiscTribeFan wrote:skatingtripods wrote:Forbes says the Tigers operating income from 2008-2010 was a negative 26-29 million dollars from 08-10. No way the Dolans could live like that.Very few businessmen would. Dick Jacobs wouldn't have.Nope. He would not have and he didn't deficit spend at any point himself.
by peeker643 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:14 pm
scott wrote:peeker643 wrote:WiscTribeFan wrote:skatingtripods wrote:Forbes says the Tigers operating income from 2008-2010 was a negative 26-29 million dollars from 08-10. No way the Dolans could live like that.Very few businessmen would. Dick Jacobs wouldn't have.Nope. He would not have and he didn't deficit spend at any point himself.The Dolans could if they wanted to. The Lerner family could. For Jacobs the Indians were an investment/business. For Ilitch, the Tigers and Red Wings are not expected to be a profit center. It's all about whether you've got a cash machine outside of sports to free you up from the concern of profitability.
by Triple-S » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:37 pm
Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.
by Madre Hill, Superstar » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:45 pm
Triple-S wrote:I love the idea of Gilbert coming on, as would I love the idea of Cuban owning a team like the Cubs or Pirates.But, Bud Selig and the old boys club would never let that happen.
by Jumbo » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:53 pm
skatingtripods wrote:How do Larry and Paul Dolan get their money? Is it from having holdings in Charles Dolan's businesses?
by phutatorius » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:55 pm
by GodHatesClevelandSport » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:05 pm
pup wrote:Come on. Someone mention Fielder's home and road splits.This is going to hurt the Tigers, because Prince is a product of Miller Park.
by GodHatesClevelandSport » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:08 pm
phutatorius wrote:#Occupy the Prog.
by peeker643 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:23 pm
phutatorius wrote:So maybe the investment/toy distinction isn't entirely apt when we're talking Jacobs vs. Dolan, because I accept that Jacobs treated the team as an investment, and nonetheless, he did add the following players by trade or free agency:Dennis MartinezOrel HershiserEddie MurrayMatt WilliamsDavid JusticeMarquis GrissomTravis FrymanRoberto AlomarJack McDowellKenny Loftonthat is, All-Star players who were at or near the top of their game.What comparable players have the Dolans brought in? Right now I can think of one:Ubaldo.Maybe Paul Byrd, if I'm feeling generous. In which case I can also add Chuck Finley and Dave Burba to the Jacobs List.I suppose if you've bought your team for $32 million, you can add (and also subtract, to be fair) star players pretty much every year and still fall into the "investor" category. At ten times that purchase price, which is where Jacobs cashed out to Larry Dolan, it's a tougher bet.But it doesn't help, either, if your response is to spend the ensuing years smothering fan interest.Honestly, I struggle to think of an apt analogy for what the Dolans have done to Indians fans. "Flowers in the Attic" jumps to mind. Waking up in a hotel room bathtub without a kidney might be a good one, too, but in the Dolans' case we'd be likely to find that they looted the minibar and stuck us with the overnight charges.#Occupy the Prog.
by Indyan » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:25 pm
by WiscTribeFan » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:26 pm
by e0y2e3 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:45 pm
by pup » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:46 pm
e0y2e3 wrote:Still blowing Dan Gilbert as being Marc Cuban after he spent an entire lockout trying to cut every single pound of financial (not competitive) flesh he could out of the players and extended the lockout along with his other cheap assholes to do so.Still blowing the guy as free spending when we are yet to actually see him spend a dime post LBJ and truthfully no one knows anything (except he cried poor a lot during the lockout while increasing his net worth $500K over the last five years thanks to LBJ and you fucktards giving him a casino).Fucking morons, all of you, forever and ever living in a world of blind bullshit and pretend rainbows.
by e0y2e3 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:50 pm
by e0y2e3 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:54 pm
by Triple-S » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:01 pm
by Jumbo » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:04 pm
peeker643 wrote:Jacobs used the Indians as an investment but his revenues were way greater...
by peeker643 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:07 pm
by e0y2e3 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:13 pm
by e0y2e3 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:22 pm
by peeker643 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:23 pm
e0y2e3 wrote:No proof, but I didn't come in this thread comparing him to Marc Cuban.Especially not six months after he took opposite sides against Cuban on forcing a lockout onto his sport that should have been over months before it was.He just went toe to toe with Cuban because he wants to make the most money possible and he has made a fortune out of you fuckheads with the Casino, that much I can prove.Never once has he blown money just to blow it, all has been calculated attempts in crease his net worth through the Cavs and Casino and all have worked.
by e0y2e3 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:27 pm
by pup » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:38 pm
by peeker643 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:40 pm
e0y2e3 wrote:BTW Peeks, Jacobs spent to keep his organization in place when the perfect storm arose. It was the right thing to do for multiple reasons and it in NO WAY made him some free-spending lunatic. You seem to have wrapped your head around this fact.Ignoring Gilbert's entire life of statements and actions beyond "he paid for LBJ!!!" and pretending like I "feel bad for the NBA players because he was a fuck during the lockout" is one thing and is assinine itself, but then to draw a line from him to a true free-spending owners? It's just shit analysis and understanding. Shit I expect from others.
by e0y2e3 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:41 pm
pup wrote:Wait. Cuban does not make money by being the owner of the Dallas Mavericks? Are you fucking serious? You telling me he has no other business ventures in and around the Dallas/Ft. Worth area that succeed in some part because he owns the Mavericks and that has made him one of the most popular/recognizable sport franchise owners?
by e0y2e3 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:46 pm
by peeker643 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:02 pm
And say what you will about Dan Gilbert, he seems to be willing to spend to make and looks at what he spends as an investment in the future.You can hate on him for being that tmlp-type, but you can't ask for a great deal more from an owner in terms of outlay of money, the importance the teams have to him and his willingness (need?) to be out in front.
e0y2e3 wrote:Whatever Peeks, you called Gilbert one of the toy owners, he isn't, now your upset I pointed out you spewing more public speakhorshit.Like I said, compare the guy to whoever you want, just at least be intellectually honest enough to admit that he is building his business around the Cavs and isn't a "run in the red for fun because his franchise is a toy" owner.It's not that fucking hard to look at what he has done, Forbes is a good starting point. Data points like his actions during the lockout just add color to the picture, the news tells what the guy has been doing.Condescend down to me all you want, don't give a fuck frankly, because your "no idea anymore" and other shit is trivial bullshit.Gilbert spent on one guy, has loads of quotes he doesn't want to spend, reporters saying he doesn't want to spend, and is obviously far more about making money than anything....And you bring him up in some saintly bullshit light and we get "IF GILBERT OWNED THE INDIANS!!!!"
by Madre Hill, Superstar » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:48 pm
by Rat_Tail » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:25 pm
by Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:51 pm
by leadpipe » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:59 pm
Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:Yep, definitely headed to the Library now.
by Adverb Harry » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:20 pm
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