Prince Fielder to the Tigers

[pod2dawg]

The Indians are also applauded for their player evaluation techniques and Mark Shapiro is rumored to be a candidate to replace Bud Selig when he retires.

Somewhere Pups head just exploded.

[gotribe31]

Aaaaaaand SCENE!

C'mon Peek, we're there now. Not denying the fact that e0 or Dave could come in and really push us over the top, but this is still pretty classic.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

This crap should never sully the Liberry with it's weak presence. This is nothing.

[DeanSheen]

My BIL who is a baseball coach and a Blue Jays fan sends me this comment on the situation:

>Prince Fielder takes his bat to Detroit, the second biggest outfield in the majors. What a fool.

[redneckofsc]

Another off-season getting shitted on.

Sign Chris Ray, Felix Pie, and few monkey turds and stool samples, trade for a wash out while our competition brings in Prince Fielder to go along with their ace, which they drafted the same year Mirabelli drafts Jeremy Sowers because we were too cheap to take Jered Weaver. Then we let some shit manager and a retarded GM with a reseeding hair line set our team back further than Jimmy Carter set our country back. Then it is announced that Roberto Heredia won't be here in time for spring training. The only bright side is we might get a high draft pick, although we will likely use it to take the next Darren Kirkreit or Mike Conroy.

Shit.

[phutatorius]

BAM!

[andrew6586]

This sucks. I'm so sick and tired of everyone else getting involved in free agency and us not even talking with guys. How the hell will we ever contend if we can't spend a dime on talent?

[bookelly]

Here's one perspective and I agree. This contract will help early, and sink the Tigers later.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/cliff_corcoran/01/24/prince.fielder/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a5

That said. When I saw this I felt like I had been gut-shot. Our chances this year just dropped like a bomb, but that's why they play the games.

[pup]

Come on. Someone mention Fielder's home and road splits.

This is going to hurt the Tigers, because Prince is a product of Miller Park.

Tribe - AL Central Champs, 2012!!!!!!

We scared them with our Casey Kotchman rumors into making them think they had to do something to upgrade that pathetic lineup that made up a 15 game deficit and then steamed ahead by 15 games in about 6 weeks. Suckers! Good work Mark and Mark Clone!

Tigers outdrew us by 800,000. With an average ticket price that is $10 higher. Rough estimate shows them bringing in $8M more at the gate. Which is obviously the reason they get to have a payroll of Indians X 2.

[peeker643]

Ilitch is 82 years old and also owns the Red Wings. He's in the NHL and US Hockey Hall of Fame. He's an icon in Detroit because of what he's done sports-wise there.

Now, is what he's doing with the Tigers sustainable? Probably not. The franchise is highly leveraged and I read something where only two other teams carry higher debt to value ratios.

To the fans? They don't give a shit about that. Refer yourself back to the icon part in paragraph one.

Just once I'd like to be in that position. Not necessarily with Fielder. I think he's a softball player whose value will decrease every year from here out while his price tag doesn't.

But it'd be nice to look behind you and see an owner willing to make a big bet every once in a while. And the Dolans simply don't have that risk profile.

[Jumbo]

The irony is that the Indians with are still probabbly the second-best team in the Central. Not like that's much...

To play non-melter's advocate: Prince is replacing an already-good hitter in V-Mart. Even though Prince is better, it's not like they're upgrading from nothing. Honny can come back to Earth. The Tigers may have some infield defense issues. Maybe Verlander is due for a torn labrum. We can wish upon a Cespedes.

[/grasping at straws]

[aldamon]

Since as fans we're ultimately powerless, I decided to vote with my wallet. MLB.TV canceled. Will re-evaluate after the All-Star break.

[Gradysmanldy]

I've slept on it, and i'm still irrationally angry about it.

Sure, take the "the contract will be an albatross" angle, and in 5 years, maybe it will be. Just embarassing that this team couldn't fill the one true void in the lineup (although there's 3-4 others that are have floaties and a life preserver on) and INSTEAD gets saddled with losing a starter due to assbaggery.

We're modeling ourselves after the Twins and Oakland, and we don't even get the once-every-five-years-sneak-into-the-playoffs-and-get-rocked-by-the-yankees fluke.

Last spring was just SO F'ING GREAT that for a short while I remembered how great competitive baseball was. How much more enjoyable the game is to watch than basketball or soccer or any of the filler i've enjoyed since I was 19 and the Jacobs era unofficially ended.

It's going to take an absolute shmorgesboard of things going right, all at once, for this years Indians team to contend with Detroit. (all the kids taking a HUGE step forward, Asdrubal maintaining, and 2-3 of the injury riddled guys from last year getting back to career norms)

Baseball is bullshit.

[skatingtripods]

Ilitch is 82 years old and also owns the Red Wings. He's in the NHL and US Hockey Hall of Fame. He's an icon in Detroit because of what he's done sports-wise there.

Now, is what he's doing with the Tigers sustainable? Probably not. The franchise is highly leveraged and I read something where only two other teams carry higher debt to value ratios.

How do Larry and Paul Dolan get their money? Is it from having holdings in Charles Dolan's businesses? I can never find the answer to this. I can never find a straight answer online because everything is always about Charles, cablevision, and his Knicks.

Larry and Paul certainly can't be worth anywhere close to 1.7 billion like Illitch is. They don't have a national company. Neither one has a wife with a large stake in a casino.

Forbes says the Tigers operating income from 2008-2010 was a negative 26-29 million dollars from 08-10. No way the Dolans could live like that.

[WiscTribeFan]

Aaaaaaand SCENE!

C'mon Peek, we're there now. Not denying the fact that e0 or Dave could come in and really push us over the top, but this is still pretty classic.

We are a Blob Dickman quote away from being epic.

[WiscTribeFan]

Forbes says the Tigers operating income from 2008-2010 was a negative 26-29 million dollars from 08-10. No way the Dolans could live like that.

Very few businessmen would. Dick Jacobs wouldn't have.

[peeker643]

Forbes says the Tigers operating income from 2008-2010 was a negative 26-29 million dollars from 08-10. No way the Dolans could live like that.

Very few businessmen would. Dick Jacobs wouldn't have.

All about why you're in it. If this IS your business you're not going to operate at a loss for long. If it's your passion and your reward for other, more lucrative businesses, well, maybe you will.

Is it a toy or a vehicle? Is it your livelihood or your recreation?

I think we know what it is for the Dolans'.

Might also be that difference between being rich and being wealthy.

[peeker643]

Forbes says the Tigers operating income from 2008-2010 was a negative 26-29 million dollars from 08-10. No way the Dolans could live like that.

Very few businessmen would. Dick Jacobs wouldn't have.

Nope. He would not have and he didn't deficit spend at any point himself.

[scott]

Forbes says the Tigers operating income from 2008-2010 was a negative 26-29 million dollars from 08-10. No way the Dolans could live like that.

Very few businessmen would. Dick Jacobs wouldn't have.

Nope. He would not have and he didn't deficit spend at any point himself.

The Dolans could if they wanted to. The Lerner family could. For Jacobs the Indians were an investment/business. For Ilitch, the Tigers and Red Wings are not expected to be a profit center. It's all about whether you've got a cash machine outside of sports to free you up from the concern of profitability.

[peeker643]

Forbes says the Tigers operating income from 2008-2010 was a negative 26-29 million dollars from 08-10. No way the Dolans could live like that.

Very few businessmen would. Dick Jacobs wouldn't have.

Nope. He would not have and he didn't deficit spend at any point himself.

The Dolans could if they wanted to. The Lerner family could. For Jacobs the Indians were an investment/business. For Ilitch, the Tigers and Red Wings are not expected to be a profit center. It's all about whether you've got a cash machine outside of sports to free you up from the concern of profitability.

Exactly. I don't know the Dolan's financial situation so I can't say whether they're in the position to go crazy with cash, but yeah, I just don't see them in that frame of mind with this team to begin with and I don't see it as their toy or hobby like I do with some owners and their teams.

And say what you will about Dan Gilbert, he seems to be willing to spend to make and looks at what he spends as an investment in the future.

You can hate on him for being that tmlp-type, but you can't ask for a great deal more from an owner in terms of outlay of money, the importance the teams have to him and his willingness (need?) to be out in front.

[Triple-S]

I love the idea of Gilbert coming on, as would I love the idea of Cuban owning a team like the Cubs or Pirates.

But, Bud Selig and the old boys club would never let that happen.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

I love the idea of Gilbert coming on, as would I love the idea of Cuban owning a team like the Cubs or Pirates.

But, Bud Selig and the old boys club would never let that happen.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

[Jumbo]

How do Larry and Paul Dolan get their money? Is it from having holdings in Charles Dolan's businesses?

Most likely, along with whatever other investments those profits have been put into. Wiki has Larry's non-Indians career as partner in a small-medium law firm. That's a nice living, but it's not going to let you buy a baseball team.

[phutatorius]

So maybe the investment/toy distinction isn't entirely apt when we're talking Jacobs vs. Dolan, because I accept that Jacobs treated the team as an investment, and nonetheless, he did add the following players by trade or free agency:

Dennis Martinez
Orel Hershiser
Eddie Murray
Matt Williams
David Justice
Marquis Grissom
Travis Fryman
Roberto Alomar
Jack McDowell
Kenny Lofton

that is, All-Star players who were at or near the top of their game.

What comparable players have the Dolans brought in? Right now I can think of one:

Ubaldo.

Maybe Paul Byrd, if I'm feeling generous. In which case I can also add Chuck Finley and Dave Burba to the Jacobs List.

I suppose if you've bought your team for $32 million, you can add (and also subtract, to be fair) star players pretty much every year and still fall into the "investor" category. At ten times that purchase price, which is where Jacobs cashed out to Larry Dolan, it's a tougher bet.

But it doesn't help, either, if your response is to spend the ensuing years smothering fan interest.

Honestly, I struggle to think of an apt analogy for what the Dolans have done to Indians fans. "Flowers in the Attic" jumps to mind. Waking up in a hotel room bathtub without a kidney might be a good one, too, but in the Dolans' case we'd be likely to find that they looted the minibar and stuck us with the overnight charges.

#Occupy the Prog.

[GodHatesClevelandSport]

Come on. Someone mention Fielder's home and road splits.

This is going to hurt the Tigers, because Prince is a product of Miller Park.

Only someone that doesn't know what they are talking about would think that. Prince has been pretty equal at home or on the road.

Now, if you want to say he might struggle against lefties a bit, that would be accurate. Too bad the Indians don't employ hardly any.

Does this signing really make the Tigers better than they were before Victor Martinez was hurt? Not by much. So whoever thought the Indians could win the division a couple weeks ago should still believe that today. The reaction to the trade shows that the reality is that the Indians didn't have nearly an equal shot as the Tigers to begin with.

[GodHatesClevelandSport]

#Occupy the Prog.

Indians fans have taken the opposite strategy. #Don'tOccupyProg. LOL

[peeker643]

So maybe the investment/toy distinction isn't entirely apt when we're talking Jacobs vs. Dolan, because I accept that Jacobs treated the team as an investment, and nonetheless, he did add the following players by trade or free agency:

Dennis Martinez
Orel Hershiser
Eddie Murray
Matt Williams
David Justice
Marquis Grissom
Travis Fryman
Roberto Alomar
Jack McDowell
Kenny Lofton

that is, All-Star players who were at or near the top of their game.

What comparable players have the Dolans brought in? Right now I can think of one:

Ubaldo.

Maybe Paul Byrd, if I'm feeling generous. In which case I can also add Chuck Finley and Dave Burba to the Jacobs List.

I suppose if you've bought your team for $32 million, you can add (and also subtract, to be fair) star players pretty much every year and still fall into the "investor" category. At ten times that purchase price, which is where Jacobs cashed out to Larry Dolan, it's a tougher bet.

But it doesn't help, either, if your response is to spend the ensuing years smothering fan interest.

Honestly, I struggle to think of an apt analogy for what the Dolans have done to Indians fans. "Flowers in the Attic" jumps to mind. Waking up in a hotel room bathtub without a kidney might be a good one, too, but in the Dolans' case we'd be likely to find that they looted the minibar and stuck us with the overnight charges.

#Occupy the Prog.

Much different times and margins. Browns were gone, no LBJ, Cavs blew perfect storm of new stadium and young players that Hart locked up long term in what was then a bold, new world.

Jacobs used the Indians as an investment but his revenues were way greater and he benefitted from that mid 90's run of talent, front office skill and good fortune. It was all those factors that combined to allow him to go get the McDowells, Hershisers and Fryman's , etc.

Dennis Martinez was a free agent that was here for the entire ride but he was by no means a marquee guy when they got him. Not even close to what McDowell was (although Martinez was far more effective).

Jacobs ran the Indians much like the Dolans do IMO (in that it wasn't a billionaire's toy). But he had a lot more cake to work with and while what he pocketed was substantial there was still a pile of cash he let Hart work with.

[Indyan]

Chin up, chaps! I looked up Prince's stats at Comerica Park for the last three seasons. He's .250/.308/.500. In conclusion, they should have picked up Casey Blake instead.

[WiscTribeFan]

The definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over expecting the result to be different.

As Indians fans we, each in our own way, are all certifiably insane.

[e0y2e3]

Still blowing Dan Gilbert as being Marc Cuban after he spent an entire lockout trying to cut every single pound of financial (not competitive) flesh he could out of the players and extended the lockout along with his other cheap assholes to do so.

Still blowing the guy as free spending when we are yet to actually see him spend a dime post LBJ and truthfully no one knows anything (except he cried poor a lot during the lockout while increasing his net worth $500K over the last five years thanks to LBJ and you fucktards giving him a casino).

Fucking morons, all of you, forever and ever living in a world of blind bullshit and pretend rainbows.

[pup]

Still blowing Dan Gilbert as being Marc Cuban after he spent an entire lockout trying to cut every single pound of financial (not competitive) flesh he could out of the players and extended the lockout along with his other cheap assholes to do so.

Still blowing the guy as free spending when we are yet to actually see him spend a dime post LBJ and truthfully no one knows anything (except he cried poor a lot during the lockout while increasing his net worth $500K over the last five years thanks to LBJ and you fucktards giving him a casino).

Fucking morons, all of you, forever and ever living in a world of blind bullshit and pretend rainbows.

Prove he won't spend.

[e0y2e3]

No proof, but I didn't come in this thread comparing him to Marc Cuban.

Especially not six months after he took opposite sides against Cuban on forcing a lockout onto his sport that should have been over months before it was.

He just went toe to toe with Cuban because he wants to make the most money possible and he has made a fortune out of you fuckheads with the Casino, that much I can prove.

Never once has he blown money just to blow it, all has been calculated attempts in crease his net worth through the Cavs and Casino and all have worked.

[e0y2e3]

Also, FTR, the only owner in Cleveland that doesn't use his franchise to make money (this is inarguable, Gilbert has turned INSANE profits from you guys and his investment strategy in Cleveland) is Lerner.

He's the only guy that treats his franchise more like a toy than an investment vehicle.

AND, FTR, I do have pre LBJ quotes from Gilert stating that an NBA team shouldn't spend, you should be able to win without the luxury tax and Windhorst has said he expects Gilbert to return to running his team that way, which jives 100% from his profit-gauging during the lockout. Far more proof than you have Pup or SSS.

[Triple-S]

The guy treats his FO people and people on the business side of things very well from all reports. A Cheap Ass Donald Sterling doesn't really do that or care.

The thing is, we don't know whether or not he'll drop cash on key free agents, because as it stands now, Cleveland is not a FA destination, both by what he did back in June of 2010. The team's still a ways off from being a contender, and you're going to have to continue to build from within until we can land someone with some crazy thought of going to Cleveland.

[Jumbo]

Jacobs used the Indians as an investment but his revenues were way greater...

...beginning in 1994.

We're basically in agreement, but since this thread comes up every offseason, there's always a need for the reminder that Dick Jacobs was a champion salary slasher from his mid-80s purchase of the team until the new ballpark opened.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/1992-misc.shtml and sort by payroll.

And yes: he did proverbially spend when the time was right, up to a top 5-MLB payroll, but it doesn't hurt to trying that when you're going from a base payroll of nil, into a new sold-out perfect storm stadium, with a business simultaneously appreciating in value by 1,000% over a 15 year period.

[peeker643]

Dude, fuck you and your hard-on for Gilbert.

Unless you want to splice and dice what you're talking about and who you're talking too you're gonna get the same level of respect or lack thereof.

He delayed the start of the jock sniffing and jump-fest that you get off on and you're bent about it. Fuck the players. Not one fucking player that anyone here or anywhere else should weep for. They're all men. They wanna tie their ships to fucking anchors and assholes then they reap what they sow. Not one person cares about the flesh cut from the players. Not even the goddamn players whose memories are shorter than their shoelaces.

Whatever. No one gives a shit. And whether or not you care to agree with it there's no fucking reason for him to spend shit on contracts here other than what he's already on the hook for until this team is competitive. You wanna throw that shit out there every time you talk about the guy,and that argument is a field's worth of straw. Because he spent (foolishly or otherwise) like a fucking sailor when James was here to win and protect his golden goose and investment. As if all these other fucks are charitable do-gooders looking to make the players partners and looking out for the good of the game.

Here is ALL you know- He spent whatever it fucking took when it was time to fucking spend it and he did it without a fucking word or complaint to the fans of that team.

That's it. That's the only thing you've got to go on with Dan Gilbert and his willingness to spend fucking money.

The guy has spent on the Cavs, he's bought the fucking Monsters, he's bought the fucking Gladiators and he's also gone out of his way with those teams to bring affordable sporting events to people here. Does he get his pound of flesh and his nut covered? Yes? He's a wealthy fucking guy and money begets money.

And you don't like him because he shit all over your favorite sport and because he's an arrogant fucking prick.

That's ironic. I'm an arrogant fucking prick and I have no issues with him. You're an arrogant fucking prick with some twisted home-hating complex and you hate him. As usual, the real deal is somewhere in between. But as long as he's spending money, trying to bring guys here and keep them here, fixing shitty businesses like the Monsters and Gladiators, providing people here with jobs and entertainment while keeping the bars and restaurants downtown above water, yeah, you'll probably find people here defending the guy and talking about the good he's done and how it certainly appears that his own interests mesh really well with Cleveland's.

If that's surprising to you then you should really step back and shake yourself.

Just stop with it every single time. No one says he's Christ arisen.

God Almighty.

Still blowing Dan Gilbert as being Marc Cuban after he spent an entire lockout trying to cut every single pound of financial (not competitive) flesh he could out of the players and extended the lockout along with his other cheap assholes to do so.

Still blowing the guy as free spending when we are yet to actually see him spend a dime post LBJ and truthfully no one knows anything (except he cried poor a lot during the lockout while increasing his net worth $500K over the last five years thanks to LBJ and you fucktards giving him a casino).

Fucking morons, all of you, forever and ever living in a world of blind bullshit and pretend rainbows.

[e0y2e3]

Peeks this is simple:

Gilbert uses his franchise to make money, not to make cash on the day to day but he is blatently clear about this. HE IS NOT MARC CUBAN. All that money he threw at James has neeted him $500K in his pocket and had the spending worked it would have been an additional $1BB.

THAT IS NOT MARC CUBAN LEVEL ACTIONS and he has made it clear he wants to make money more than win, period. This is INARGUABLE.

You stepped on your dick with your bullshit example and want to cry, whatever.

This isn't about just the lockout, or LBJ, or anything else, it is pure fact that you are wrong, SSS is wrong and I'm sick and fucking tired of reading every day that he is some Marc Cuban nut job just looking to burn money.

Plenty of good owners have made money and been good owners (Kraft in New England comes to mind). I never even mentioned the quality of owner he is beyond your all fucking off your rockers pretending like his #1 goal isn't generating cash.

Statements from him,

Public actions,

Lockout stances,

Actions post lockout

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY HIS PERSONAL WEALTH GROWTH BEING DRIVEN BY CLEVELAND AND CAVS CENTERED INVESTMENTS.

You want to flip out because I'm tired of reading stupid shit about the guy that isn't true be my guest, but comparing him to Marc Cuban is fucking retarded.

This has nothing to do with how I feel about the guy on the whole either, like I said, plenty of owners can make money first and foremost and be good owners but Gilbert has as much in common with Pizza Baron and Marc Cuban as I do SSS.

I never even said he's a shitty owner, I said he really likes getting rich and uses the Cavs to do so.

[e0y2e3]

BTW Peeks, Jacobs spent to keep his organization in place when the perfect storm arose. It was the right thing to do for multiple reasons and it in NO WAY made him some free-spending lunatic. You seem to have wrapped your head around this fact.

Ignoring Gilbert's entire life of statements and actions beyond "he paid for LBJ!!!" and pretending like I "feel bad for the NBA players because he was a fuck during the lockout" is one thing and is assinine itself, but then to draw a line from him to a true free-spending owners? It's just shit analysis and understanding. Shit I expect from others.

[peeker643]

You knew what the fucking lockout was. I told what it was myself and told you when people were crying over litigation that that's what was needed to get it over with.

You also know that there nearly every owner in the league is egomaniacal fucktard that's had their way all their lives and aren't going to watch the players ruin that.

You know that too.

And despite knowing it you bitch about the guy all the time as if he's the one fly in the ointment.

It's an agenda. You dislike the guy. And no one here begrudges him the right to make money here. No one. Especially not when he's contributing more than the fucking players who also make money here and leave/retire/die.

No proof, but I didn't come in this thread comparing him to Marc Cuban.

Especially not six months after he took opposite sides against Cuban on forcing a lockout onto his sport that should have been over months before it was.

He just went toe to toe with Cuban because he wants to make the most money possible and he has made a fortune out of you fuckheads with the Casino, that much I can prove.

Never once has he blown money just to blow it, all has been calculated attempts in crease his net worth through the Cavs and Casino and all have worked.

[e0y2e3]

Again, stop fucking turning my words Peeks it is six year old shit.

As I have said five times now, I'm not commenting on ANYTHING BUT THE FACT THAT THE CAVS ARE A DEVICE TO GETTING RICH FIRST AND FOREMOST FOR GILBERT, HE IS NOT A TRUE FREE-SPENDING GUY THAT JUST VIEWS THEM AS A TOY.

I'm out after the. It's slow typed and in all caps, so you can keep spinning it to me not liking the guy (which is true) meaning I'm not right in stating that he still cares about his bottom-line, A LOT and a fuck ton more than even a guy like Lerner.

He's generating most of his wealth throw Cavs and Cavs based investments.

Fuck I already told you to compare him to Kraft if you want, who did the same shit in Foxboro, be my guest, just stop fucking calling him Other Dolan or Marc Cuban or Detroit Fuckstick, because he isn't, Gilbert is running his franchise as a multi-level attack to getting really, really fucking rich.

[pup]

Wait. Cuban does not make money by being the owner of the Dallas Mavericks? Are you fucking serious? You telling me he has no other business ventures in and around the Dallas/Ft. Worth area that succeed in some part because he owns the Mavericks and that has made him one of the most popular/recognizable sport franchise owners?

[peeker643]

I have zero idea what you're talking about anymore. Here or anywhere else.

No fucking clue. I highly doubt I'm alone. In fact, you I'm not, if there's a doubt.

Show me when I brought up Marc Cuban or said Jacobs was a free spending lunatic.

I said the dude laid out as much money as he had to when it was prudent to do so. Show me that he didn't

It's easy to spend a little more when you're making a lot more Lee. See: Christmas bonus. I'll ocasionally buy steaks and a bottle of good bourbon when mine comes in. Expenditures I don't make when that money isn't there.

You drop your condescending "shit I expect from others" on others, dude. I'm not playing that whiny, hurt game today.

You show me where I'm wrong and I'll tell you I'm wrong. I may be an asshole but you poiunt out where I compared Gilbert to Cuban instead of telling you why I have no issues with the guy or the money he's spent and then we can go from there.

I'll stop now. I have no idea wtf is up with you of late but I'll assume it's something no worselike a bug up the ass that all of us get occasionally that might resolve itself later on down the road.

I love talking to ya and with ya dude, I do. But this constant anti-Gilbert fixation is fucking unhealthy.

BTW Peeks, Jacobs spent to keep his organization in place when the perfect storm arose. It was the right thing to do for multiple reasons and it in NO WAY made him some free-spending lunatic. You seem to have wrapped your head around this fact.

Ignoring Gilbert's entire life of statements and actions beyond "he paid for LBJ!!!" and pretending like I "feel bad for the NBA players because he was a fuck during the lockout" is one thing and is assinine itself, but then to draw a line from him to a true free-spending owners? It's just shit analysis and understanding. Shit I expect from others.

[e0y2e3]

Wait. Cuban does not make money by being the owner of the Dallas Mavericks? Are you fucking serious? You telling me he has no other business ventures in and around the Dallas/Ft. Worth area that succeed in some part because he owns the Mavericks and that has made him one of the most popular/recognizable sport franchise owners?

Cuban runs the Mavs in the red every year, makes a few in ventures here and there, but is in no way capable of pointing to a a half a million dollar jump in personal value just over the last couple of years because of the Cavs/Casino/Cleveland investment initiative.

Cuban truly treats the Mavs as a toy, Gilert is in the middle of trying to revamp his entire "empire" and has used the Cavs almost exclusively to get there and open door.

The Sox did similar to what Gilbert wants to do in Cleveland in Boston. Which when combined with the fact that the Sawx generate shit tons of money created an empire. And even their empire has spending limits.

Gilbert's literally building a business.

People want to pretend that isn't going down, be my guest. Cuban has never once used his basketball franchise to remake his personal portfolio like Gilbert did and usually by all accounts just writes the check.

[e0y2e3]

Whatever Peeks, you called Gilbert one of the toy owners, he isn't, now your upset I pointed out you spewing more public speakhorshit.

Like I said, compare the guy to whoever you want, just at least be intellectually honest enough to admit that he is building his business around the Cavs and isn't a "run in the red for fun because his franchise is a toy" owner.

It's not that fucking hard to look at what he has done, Forbes is a good starting point. Data points like his actions during the lockout just add color to the picture, the news tells what the guy has been doing.

Condescend down to me all you want, don't give a fuck frankly, because your "no idea anymore" and other shit is trivial bullshit.

Gilbert spent on one guy, has loads of quotes he doesn't want to spend, reporters saying he doesn't want to spend, and is obviously far more about making money than anything....

And you bring him up in some saintly bullshit light and we get "IF GILBERT OWNED THE INDIANS!!!!"

[peeker643]

No I didn't. This is exactly what I said, cut from the fucking thread that you apparently aren't capable of reading or compartmentalizing.

And say what you will about Dan Gilbert, he seems to be willing to spend to make and looks at what he spends as an investment in the future.

You can hate on him for being that tmlp-type, but you can't ask for a great deal more from an owner in terms of outlay of money, the importance the teams have to him and his willingness (need?) to be out in front.

"Willing to spend to make.."

That's what I said you fucktard.

Now go turn it into what fits your agenda because, as usual, you know better than anyone else what it means despite not being the one to fucking think it or write it.

You need fucking help.

Reading comprehension and getting your fucking melon squared away.

Whatever Peeks, you called Gilbert one of the toy owners, he isn't, now your upset I pointed out you spewing more public speakhorshit.

Like I said, compare the guy to whoever you want, just at least be intellectually honest enough to admit that he is building his business around the Cavs and isn't a "run in the red for fun because his franchise is a toy" owner.

It's not that fucking hard to look at what he has done, Forbes is a good starting point. Data points like his actions during the lockout just add color to the picture, the news tells what the guy has been doing.

Condescend down to me all you want, don't give a fuck frankly, because your "no idea anymore" and other shit is trivial bullshit.

Gilbert spent on one guy, has loads of quotes he doesn't want to spend, reporters saying he doesn't want to spend, and is obviously far more about making money than anything....

And you bring him up in some saintly bullshit light and we get "IF GILBERT OWNED THE INDIANS!!!!"

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Yep, definitely headed to the Library now.

[Rat_Tail]

Absolutely have to stay healthy this year. A healthy Indians team is still good enough to compete with the Tigers.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

This. Is. AWESOME.

Library worthy now.

[leadpipe]

Yep, definitely headed to the Library now.

I'd like to hold off until the first hump comes in with "The Tigers are fucked because Cabrera is too fat to play 3rd base for them," take.

[Adverb Harry]

The Tigers are fucked because Cabrera is too fat to play third base for them.

They're cooked. We've got this.