Prince Fielder to the Tigers

[gotribe31]

Local sportstalk radio has Prince coming to DC on an 8-year deal. Haven't seen it anywhere nationally yet, but they sound pretty sure of themselves around here. If it happens, they'll have a pretty solid club with a chance to compete in the NL East.

[swerb]

Let it be so ...

[LakeErieWarriors]

Could this move start putting the wheels in motion for a resolution to the Tribe's 1st base conundrum?

[bookelly]

Micheal Morse would look very nice in a Tribe uni.

[LakeErieWarriors]

^^^^^Morse just signed with them (Nats) today.....Busy day for Nats

[skatingtripods]

Micheal Morse would look very nice in a Tribe uni.

Morse would just go back to the OF.

We wouldn't have what they'd want anyway. It would take Kipnis + Santana probably. They have no use for Chisenhall with Zimmermann. We've got no top-tier SP anymore.

But, yes, he'd look good in a Tribe uni. I agree there.

[bookelly]

R Perez + Hagadone + ??? (low A prospect) should get this done. If you are "all-in" as I believe the Dolan's are for this year, you get this done. Clear the cupboard because you're selling anyway.

Adding Morse would make this team the favorite in the Central.

[gotribe31]

I think you guys are barking up the wrong tree here...like Adam said, Morse is already a starter in the OF. Adam LaRoche is their starter at 1B. He's the guy that would become available if Fielder ends up in DC.

[skatingtripods]

Adam LaRoche is their starter at 1B. He's the guy that would become available if Fielder ends up in DC.

Awesome. We can reunite the LaRoche brothers. (We signed Andy, right?)

R Perez + Hagadone + ??? (low A prospect) should get this done. If you are "all-in" as I believe the Dolan's are for this year, you get this done. Clear the cupboard because you're selling anyway.

Perez isn't all that valuable. Hagadone's upside is totally unclear, and no low-A prospect as a throw-in gets you a 30 HR player.

Antonetti would get laughed at. And the Dolans have nothing to do with it.

[skatingtripods]

Olney speculating if Fielder should take a one-year deal, have a monster year, and then bigger markets like the Dodgers and Mets come into play next year.

Supposedly, the Tigers are going to get insurance money back on VMart's contract. Olney says they could offer Prince 1 year for 16M.

[motherscratcher]

Adam LaRoche is their starter at 1B. He's the guy that would become available if Fielder ends up in DC.

Awesome. We can reunite the LaRoche brothers. (We signed Andy, right?)

Maybe we only signed Andy to get to Adam. It's the old Different Strokes Switcheroo. Nicely played Antonetti

Olney speculating if Fielder should take a one-year deal, have a monster year, and then bigger markets like the Dodgers and Mets come into play next year.

Supposedly, the Tigers are going to get insurance money back on VMart's contract. Olney says they could offer Prince 1 year for 16M.

Well, for one year, why the hell can't we get in on that action?

[skatingtripods]

Yahoo's Tim Brown reporting Tigers and Fielder are close to a 9-year deal.

Must be nice to have money...

Edit: Heyman says it's done.

[exiledbuckeye]

9 years, 214 million dollars.

Tigers are now the fattest team in baseball.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

BREAKING NEWS. Price Felder signed with the Detroit Tigers, several years and for a lot of money. I broke the story first!!!

[rigs]

Someone bump my "rebuilding" thread and let me know where I am wrong. Shaponetti gave us their worse offseason since 2001, and that is saying something.

This organization is bare bones in the upper levels, refuses to add missing pieces, and will in no way pay Ubaldo, Asdrubal, Choo, etc. after 2013.

You deal Masterson, Asdrubal, Choo now and build it for 2014-2015. Best odds by far.

[redneckofsc]

So when VMart comes back, does that mean he is traded? I don't think any of Cabrera, Fielder or VMart are capable of playing the outfield...then again, Todd Hundley and Ryan Garko played in the OF.

[Calis32]

So when VMart comes back, does that mean he is traded? I don't think any of Cabrera, Fielder or VMart are capable of playing the outfield...then again, Todd Hundley and Ryan Garko played in the OF.

3. Cabrera 1B/3B/DH
4. Fielder 1B/DH
5. VMart C/DH

And boom goes the dynamite.

[peeker643]

^ He's back.

Didn't get what I asked for this Christmas.

[Kingpin74]

Good times. They're bringing in Prince while we're loathe to spring for one year of a competent major league first baseman. That Ubaldo trade is looking better and better. I always enjoy bringing a dull butter knife to a gunfight.

[shamwow imitator]

I think our "window of opportunity" just closed That was fast

[swerb]

Someone bump my "rebuilding" thread and let me know where I am wrong. Shaponetti gave us their worse offseason since 2001, and that is saying something.

This organization is bare bones in the upper levels, refuses to add missing pieces, and will in no way pay Ubaldo, Asdrubal, Choo, etc. after 2013.

You deal Masterson, Asdrubal, Choo now and build it for 2014-2015. Best odds by far.

Not saying I'm thrilled with the Indians off-season.

They had 15 mill to spend. Gave Grady 5-8mm, Lowe 5mm, and have 2-5mm left to spend.

What would you have done different? Just curious.

[rigs]

would have not traded for Ubaldo, realizing we are not close. And obviously, not re-signed Grady Sizemore.

If the Indians do not make the playoffs this year or next, Ubaldo trade was awful. I would have kept Pomeranz and White, and dealt the aforementioned players and started over. This team was 17 GAMES UNDER .500 after May 15th!! Don't want to hear about injuries...it is an injury prone team. Do you think Hafner, Sizemore, and Choo will be healthy all season? No chance.

[rigs]

My question is this. People want Shurmur/Holmgren gone. They have been here one and two years respectively.

The Indians front office is one of the worst in MLB, a 12 year run (counting this year, 2012, of one postseason). It is the weakest division (the AFC North is brutal). These guys are here forever!! When is it time to move on for goodness sakes?!?!

[Calis32]

My question is this. People want Shurmur/Holmgren gone. They have been here one and two years respectively.

The Indians front office is one of the worst in MLB, a 12 year run (counting this year, 2012, of one postseason). It is the weakest division (the AFC North is brutal). These guys are here forever!! When is it time to move on for goodness sakes?!?!

The owner doesn't care. He overpaid for the team and refuses to cut his losses. He doesn't want to deal with the team.

[motherscratcher]

9 years, 214 million dollars.

Tigers are now the fattest team in baseball.

I'm thinking they are probably counting on Prince's vegetarianism to cancel out Miggy's alcoholism and end up with 2 healthy social drinkers who can mash. It's a brilliant move if you ask me.

[phutatorius]

One perspective to bring to this is

"Great -- now that the top players at a given position have come off the market, the logjam is broken and we're that much closer to getting to a point where the Indians can address their position need with an appropriate-to-market C-level player."

Another perspective is

"WHY THE HELL DOES DETROIT GET TO BE THE RECESSION-ADDLED POST-INDUSTRIAL SMALL-MARKET CITY WITH THE DRUNKEN-SAILOR PIZZA-MAGNATE OWNER?!?!"

I'm not saying that first perspective isn't valid. After all, it's the perspective that reflects reality. It's the perspective that displays a "serenity to accept the things we cannot change."

But that same perspective smacks of numb resignation. It's learned helplessness. If human beings were meant to be impressed with this mindset, the Soviet Union would never have collapsed.

No.

No, I say. We are good people. We are owed oh, so much better than this. If the Tunisians can shake off Ben Ali -- if the Egyptians can send Mubarak packing -- if Libya can ax Colonel [Kh/G/Q]ad[d]af[f][i/y] --

then -- DAMMIT! We can demand change, too.

It's enough to watch New York paper over its grave personnel errors with million-dollar bills. It's enough to watch Boston treat our beloved Indians like a AAA farm team. But DETROIT? DETROIT gets to lord its check-writing capacity over us like this?

I submit to you all the following resolution:

RESOLVED: An owner of a small-market baseball team should neither (1) treat it as an investment property, nor (2) expect it to generate a profit. An owner of a small-market baseball team should be a gajillionaire whose object is to spend down his vastly accumulated wealth in pursuit of championships and the storebought love of his fan base.

I don't begrudge the Dolans the right to act in accordance with their business sense. Yes, they're running a business, and they're running it as competently and shrewdly as they know how. I just wish they'd run a different kind of business -- one that doesn't have to do with entertaining, inspiring, and instilling a modest kind of regional pride in people who have no control over its operations. Like, for example, a bridge rivet factory. The world needs bridge rivets, because it needs bridges. The rivets don't need a flashy paint job. They don't need to be shiny. You don't need to trick 'em out; you just need to have them. I'd like to see the Dolans run a bridge rivet factory. I bet they could pile up a ton of money making cheaply and then selling assloads of olive-green and brown bridge rivets. Hell, I might even buy shares in that company.

But for God's sake, get them out of this "business," because I'm NOT a shareholder in the Cleveland Indians organization. I'm a baseball fan. And Derek Lowe and Ryan Spilborghs aren't gonna cut it.

[skatingtripods]

My question is this. People want Shurmur/Holmgren gone. They have been here one and two years respectively.

The Indians front office is one of the worst in MLB, a 12 year run (counting this year, 2012, of one postseason). It is the weakest division (the AFC North is brutal). These guys are here forever!! When is it time to move on for goodness sakes?!?!

Actually, the Indians front office has had a handful of guys go on to GM other teams or work in higher positions for other teams. High-ranking Indians front office members are always sought after for interviews. The Indians are also applauded for their player evaluation techniques and Mark Shapiro is rumored to be a candidate to replace Bud Selig when he retires.

The organization is highly respected in baseball circles. Just not at all respected by the fans of the city they work in.

But, yes, baseball's AFC North Division really sucks.

[exiledbuckeye]

9 years, 214 million dollars.

Tigers are now the fattest team in baseball.

I'm thinking they are probably counting on Prince's vegetarianism to cancel out Miggy's alcoholism and end up with 2 healthy social drinkers who can mash. It's a brilliant move if you ask me.

Between these two guys, Gene Lamont, and Jose Valverde....I hope the Tigers factored in the cost of reinforcing the clubhouse floor and the price of all that extra uniform fabric. Not to mention the post-game buffet.

[Kingpin74]

My question is this. People want Shurmur/Holmgren gone. They have been here one and two years respectively.

The Indians front office is one of the worst in MLB, a 12 year run (counting this year, 2012, of one postseason). It is the weakest division (the AFC North is brutal). These guys are here forever!! When is it time to move on for goodness sakes?!?!

Actually, the Indians front office has had a handful of guys go on to GM other teams or work in higher positions for other teams. High-ranking Indians front office members are always sought after for interviews. The Indians are also applauded for their player evaluation techniques and Mark Shapiro is rumored to be a candidate to replace Bud Selig when he retires.

The organization is highly respected in baseball circles. Just not at all respected by the fans of the city they work in.

But, yes, baseball's AFC North Division really sucks.

I'm pretty much with you. It's hard for me to fault the front office when their budget leaves them almost zero margin for error year in and year out. They've had enough good players pass through to be competitive here and there, and that's no given in this market. I'd love it if they were ran like the Rays, but not everyone is that good at it. However, they knew all of their constraints before the Ubaldo trade and still made it. Big mistake in my opinion.

[skatingtripods]

However, they knew all of their constraints before the Ubaldo trade and still made it. Big mistake in my opinion.

We saw half a season from a banged up Ubaldo Jimenez.

If he goes 17-6 3.25 this year, nobody says a word.

That trade is not able to be evaluated yet. I'm not saying you're wrong. Just saying that I can't write it off yet.


We have to work with the market we're in. Detroit outdrew us by 800k fans last year, 1.1M the year before. Metro area is probably 3-4x the size of ours.

It's hard to envy the Indians front office. They've only got enough bullets to fill half of the barrel and they can't take a shot and miss.

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

My question is this. People want Shurmur/Holmgren gone. They have been here one and two years respectively.

The Indians front office is one of the worst in MLB, a 12 year run (counting this year, 2012, of one postseason). It is the weakest division (the AFC North is brutal). These guys are here forever!! When is it time to move on for goodness sakes?!?!

But, yes, baseball's AFC North Division really sucks.

Pretty sure he was trying to contrast the Browns failures with the Tribe's, ie the Tribe play in a weak division while the Browns play in a brutal one.

[gotribe31]

Peek, can we go ahead and tab this thread for the Library now? Some epic stuff going down here.

[skatingtripods]

My question is this. People want Shurmur/Holmgren gone. They have been here one and two years respectively.

The Indians front office is one of the worst in MLB, a 12 year run (counting this year, 2012, of one postseason). It is the weakest division (the AFC North is brutal). These guys are here forever!! When is it time to move on for goodness sakes?!?!

But, yes, baseball's AFC North Division really sucks.

Pretty sure he was trying to contrast the Browns failures with the Tribe's, ie the Tribe play in a weak division while the Browns play in a brutal one.

Probably.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

They've only got enough bullets to fill half of the barrel and they can't take a shot and miss.

What? I don't even.....

[skatingtripods]

They've only got enough bullets to fill half of the barrel and they can't take a shot and miss.

What? I don't even.....

Fuck off. You know what I meant.

[GodHatesClevelandSport]

Someone bump my "rebuilding" thread and let me know where I am wrong. Shaponetti gave us their worse offseason since 2001, and that is saying something.

This organization is bare bones in the upper levels, refuses to add missing pieces, and will in no way pay Ubaldo, Asdrubal, Choo, etc. after 2013.

You deal Masterson, Asdrubal, Choo now and build it for 2014-2015. Best odds by far.

Not saying I'm thrilled with the Indians off-season.

They had 15 mill to spend. Gave Grady 5-8mm, Lowe 5mm, and have 2-5mm left to spend.

What would you have done different? Just curious.

I think they should have cut bait with Fausto last fall and put that money toward an offensive upgrade. I believe Jeanmar Gomez can give the what Fausto would have. They might have had more to offer Carloses Beltran or Pena, or even Josh Willingham.

[motherscratcher]

How in there hell have there been 10 posts since Phutatorius' epic meltdown and not a damn person has mentioned it? Just passed over it like it wasn't even there.

Fuckin' bridge rivet factory.

Deserved a response IMO.

[phutatorius]

The offseasons with this team are soul-destroying. I think this ownership dramatically understates the importance of sustaining fan interest through the dark days of winter.

Contrast Dick Jacobs, who went out and got Jack McDowell after the Tribe went to the Series in '95. Maybe in retrospect the move didn't pay off, but it signaled that the team was invested, and so fans should be as well.

But this approach whereby the front office develops a core and works in spare parts, retreads, and undervalued players to form a team that may or may not click in a given year? It may be suitable to the market conditions -- it may be exactly the right strategic approach from a team-building standpoint -- but bigger picture, it's uninspiring to fans, with the result that the team has no drawing power. Revenue remains flat, the payroll constraints remain what they are, and the cycle begins afresh each November. This dynamic holds true even when the clicking actually happens.

Watching this organization construct its team each winter is excruciating. This goes double when the only team I have with a consistent shot at success is the subject of an ongoing inexplicable ESPN vendetta and has seen its postseason preemptively stripped away eight months before any of its players get to take the field.

The only hope is a fan insurrection, but most of our numbers have already lapsed into apathy. It's truly the recipe for indefinite, sustainable exploitation: get past the point where The People have hope.

[gotribe31]

How in there hell have there been 10 posts since Phutatorius' epic meltdown and not a damn person has mentioned it? Just passed over it like it wasn't even there.

Fuckin' bridge rivet factory.

Deserved a response IMO.

8 year olds, dude

[LakeErieWarriors]

I would not drive over a bridge with Derek Lowe-esque rivets.

[Erie Warrior]

Wasn't the Ubaldo trade the "Our Time is Now!" moment?

Shouldn't the offseason reflect the same sense of urgency?

Did I miss the point?

[LakeErieWarriors]

The Ubaldo trade was the "We have obscene levels of false hope" moment. Right around that time, the Tribe hung around with the Tigers at like 2 games back for a little while, and then nature finally took it's course. With the D. Lowe pickup, it looked like they were gonna kick things into gear this offseason, however we can plainly see that that was not the case at all.

[peeker643]

Peek, can we go ahead and tab this thread for the Library now? Some epic stuff going down here.

Shhh.... not yet. Not yet.

We're one more outstanding phutatorious post away from 'classic' status and I don't want to make noises that will scare him off.

Even if he doesn't post, that post of Adam's where he mixed about 14 metaphors in a single sentence could carry the day.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

They've only got enough bullets to fill half of the barrel and they can't take a shot and miss.

What? I don't even.....

Fuck off. You know what I meant.

Yes, I know what you meant.

Maybe we should get a better ammo supplier?

And you don't ever tell me to fuck off.

[peeker643]

Getting closer...

[Cerebral_DownTime]

I don't think we're going to be very good this year. The upshot is maybe the game threads will be awesome by the end of April. Anger, frustration, and apologists. That's what i'm looking forward to.

[peeker643]

I don't think we're going to be very good this year. The upshot is maybe the game threads will be awesome by the end of April. Anger, frustration, and apologists. That's what i'm looking forward to.

Ugh...

It would be better for all of us if they are good, contend and then shit themselves later. Otherwise, by April, it'll be me, you and Rat Tail in the fucking threads and I'll hang myself from a sturdy shower curtain rod.

[rigs]

Tripods,
It is the AL Central in baseball...I assume a typo on your part.

We'll agree to disagree on the rest. One playoff in a dozen years is a failure, and someone else should get a crack at it.

[swerb]

I don't think we're going to be very good this year. The upshot is maybe the game threads will be awesome by the end of April. Anger, frustration, and apologists. That's what i'm looking forward to.

Ugh...

It would be better for all of us if they are good, contend and then shit themselves later. Otherwise, by April, it'll be me, you and Rat Tail in the fucking threads and I'll hang myself from a sturdy shower curtain rod.

Rat Tail with his thoughts on the trade on Twitter:

Vincenzo
@Rat_Tail

Prince Fielder can die of gonorrhea and rot in hell. Detroit? Seriously? #injury

[phutatorius]

I should be clear — there are some things the Indians do really well. There's that Fried Everything station down in the lower-level concourse. Can't beat that. And when I went to that Wednesday afternoon makeup game back in August, I had some kind of mega-deluxe hot dog topped with something like pulled pork, bacon, chicken-fried steak, pimento loaf, and beef jerky.

This was, all in all, a terrific day. I flew in with my five-year-old, bought ridiculously good tickets maybe twenty rows back behind home plate ("MANY GREAT SEATS STILL AVAILABLE"), and watched Big League Choo put one into the bleachers to win the game in the bottom of the ninth. And from where we were sitting, we couldn't feel the earthquake, and that speaks to the ballpark's structural integrity.

And so, to quote Sir Walter Scott, boo-yah.

Thing is, I don't doubt Paul Dolan's first instinct, upon watching that ball clear the wall in left-center, was to check the real-time winter arbitration-value tracker app on his iPhone:

Aw, crap. That's gonna cost us around $15K.

For probably six weeks last year, I believed in this team. And when the big crashing wave bore down and finally overtook the ship, I dog-paddled in the surf amid the flotsam and jetsam and driftwood displaying some alien emotion akin to (what is it?) pride — because for a meaningful period of time, the Indians were the best team in baseball. 80-82 in the end, we were a smear on Jim Leyland's cleats, and I felt good about that.

This isn't the exuberance of fandom, or even the diminishing of expectations. It's frickin' Stockholm Syndrome.

Used to be it took bread and circuses to quell the passions of a madding crowd. But somehow the Indians are keeping us all at bay with Dollar Dog Nights and deep-fried Twinkies.

What a broken, docile lot we've become.