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Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

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Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby mistero » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:33 pm

Here's my thinking. The last thing the offense needs is some more youth to look even more lost. I'm not trying to build a team with a 7 year build up to greatness. I think Heckert could assemble a squad to compete with the likes of mediocre Cincy, declining Pittsburgh and soon to be declining Baltimore starting next season.

The Offense:

Add Brad Childress as OC: Crucial we get an experienced guy to run the game day machine.

Sign Matt Flynn: He knows the offense. He's been seasoned by an excellent coaching staff. He's tasted success in real action.

Add 2 from this bunch at WR: Dwayne Bowe, Marques Colston,Robert Meachum, Peire Garcon, Stevie Johnson,Mario Manningham, or Eddie Royal.

Bring back Hillis. Bring back Brandon Jackson,Hillis,Ogbanaya and Hardesty. Sign Leron McLain or Jason Snelling to play FB. Add in a late round rookie to compete in training camp. Davin Meggett form Maryland or Jeff Demps from Florida.


Add a veteran RG
:Jeremy Zuttah,Ben Grubbs, Mike McGlynn or Carl Nicks

Bring back the TE group; Watson,Moore and Alex Smith. Jordan Cameron can come too.


On Defense:

Build a dominant unit with young ,fast players. Dick Jauron already has a scheme and stability in place and can absorb an injection of fresh faces.

I would draft the following guys in rounds 1 thru 4. Rounds 5 thru 7 could go to the offense.

Pick 4 . Morris Claiborne CB LSU.
Pick 22. Nick Perry USC DE
2nd Round: Donta Hightower LB ALA
3rd Round: Markelle Martin OK ST FS
4th Round: Trumaine Johnson Montana CB
4th Round: Nigel Bradham OLB FSU

Add those guys to the solid core of Sheard,Taylor,Rubin,Haden,DQ and friends and we might be looking at a top 5 unit.

And I get to win a few games in 2012 which would be nice.
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby jb » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:38 pm

Sign me up.

The O is too young and needs talent plus experience.

The D needs speed.

One caveat is that e could use a change of pace RB with huge speed, like a LMJ or Joe Adams in round 3.
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby swerb » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:41 pm

Couple problems with that. Pittsburgh isn't declining. Baltimore has a chance to win the Super Bowl this year. Cincy is likely to get better, not worse.

And Holmgren the Bully flat out came out and said they ain't gonna be signing many free agents at all. Right after he told us not to come groveling to him on our hands and knees for playoff tickets.

Other than that, great plan. ;-)

It all depends on what you want. If you wanna guarantee 8 wins next year, this is the best plan. If you want to try and win a Super Bowl, you need an elite QB. Matt Flynn could possibly be one. The chances are greater that RG3 becomes one though.
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:43 pm

Here's my thought - this team has many holes, and I'm sure that they'll use a combination of FA and the draft to try and fill as many as possible. The one I'm most concerned with getting filled is the QB.

Flynn isn't my first choice, but I wouldn't hate signing him either. There are positives that can be had from him, not the least of which is being free to use that #4 however they want. Probably not a long-term solution, but at least a solution.

Unlike the utter bullshit that I hear on the radio about giving Colt another year, as if b/c Troy Aikman was 1-15 and terrible his first year that McCoy will somehow become Aikman.

You're too greedy though. All those FA's... they have cap space, but probably not that much. You only need one of those WR's (Bowe, Colston, etc). Bowe, Little, Norwood, Cribbs isn't nearly as bad as you think. I'd take it in a heartbeat, so long as we had a QB that could get them the ball.

Who's playing RT in this scenario?

I like the D plan.
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby LakeErieWarriors » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:56 pm

I like the thinking but my 1994 Christmas list was more realistic for Christs sake. The WR proposal alone, if they were to make that come true, we'd have the best corps in the league. Matt Flynn? I just don't know, seems like too much of a roll of the dice at this point. The main idea - offense FA, defense draft, I like that, and think it would be the best way to go forward.
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby swerb » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:59 pm

Walrus and Heckert have flat out said they're not going to sign a lot of FA. And have signed none the last two years.

This is dismissing the fact that all these legit offensive FA's would actually have to want to come here to play for this perennial loser franchise with our mouth breather head coach, the king of the 4 yard out pattern
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby jb » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:18 pm

swerb wrote:Walrus and Heckert have flat out said they're not going to sign a lot of FA.



And other sources say they are hair on fire ready to win now. You can't do that via draft alone. So I don't know what to believe.

And Pittsburgh's defense looks on the decline to me based on the Denver game. When they play a team with the O talent to mke them not play all downhill, they looked slow and the young DLmen drafted high didn't look all that great to me.
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:19 pm

I'm so excited to watch yall melt down as Matt Flynn turns into a hybrid Kevin Kolb/AJ Feeley.

I'm gonna laugh at you!!!
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:37 pm

swerb wrote:Walrus and Heckert have flat out said they're not going to sign a lot of FA. And have signed none the last two years.


They signed & traded for several vets before Mangini's last year. Delhomme, Wallace, Hillis, Watson, Pashos, Fujita, Gocong, Brown...

That was a pretty active offseason outside of the draft.

(But until someone can link me to something that suggests the Chiefs are really displeased with Bowe and don't plan on tagging him...they're tagging him.)
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby Lubber » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:38 pm

Would like to see Fletch end his playing career in his hometown. London still has plenty left in his motor and would add plenty of speed to the defense.
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:46 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:I'm so excited to watch yall melt down as Matt Flynn turns into a hybrid Kevin Kolb/AJ Feeley.

I'm gonna laugh at you!!!


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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:45 pm

jb wrote:
swerb wrote:Walrus and Heckert have flat out said they're not going to sign a lot of FA.



And other sources say they are hair on fire ready to win now. You can't do that via draft alone. So I don't know what to believe.



They're lying when their lips move. Pay attention to what they've done as opposed to what they say. Is there history of these guys using big draft picks for QBs or is there history in them/him finding a QB on another roster and bringing him in?

Not saying they won't flip the script, but if I were a wagering man....

And yeah, they run the risk of e0y2e3 laughing at their choice and us. But I'm already beyond that. Everyone else is already laughing...
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby noles1 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:33 pm

Any thread that proposes we sign 5 of the Top maybe 8 FA's on the market is an instant classic to me.

We may do 2 of those offensive things.

As for the defense, remains to be seen how much we add but don't think it will be nearly as much as has been suggested here.
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby Triple-S » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:35 pm

Look, you're not going to get to anybody to come here to this mess.

-This organization is viewed as a consistent joke by players and management around the league.

-This team will be lucky to hit .500 this year.

-This team will be lucky to be good in 2 years, let alone within 1.

-This team has a hellish history of staph and other crap along that path.

If we can get this team to look legitimate, and have a solid franchise QB in place, then yeah, I think we can starting landing FA's, but this is not the case.

Until then, going draft heavy and praying Heckert hits on a few is our only option.
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:41 pm

While I like this scenario, that's a lot of cash that you're asking Randy Lerner to hand out when he appears like he doesn't give a shit.
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby mistero » Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:57 am

noles1 wrote:Any thread that proposes we sign 5 of the Top maybe 8 FA's on the market is an instant classic to me.

We may do 2 of those offensive things.

As for the defense, remains to be seen how much we add but don't think it will be nearly as much as has been suggested here.



I propose we sign Flynn, Meachum, Garcon, and Nicks. That's 4 Free Agents and really only Flynn and Nicks are going to cost a shitload. You could do it. It can be done.
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:21 am

Meachem has been an oft injured disappointment but will definitely go to a team like Cincy that has none of the things mentioned upstream.

Garcon is shit.

Nicks/Flynn? Meh. You're going to be paying Flynn based on that last game, not based on his potential. I'm not saying I don't get down on it, I'm just saying......with that kind of a contract, it would be difficult for him to live up to it. Better chance he goes to Seattle or Miami or....
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:39 am

skatingtripods wrote:While I like this scenario, that's a lot of cash that you're asking Randy Lerner to hand out when he appears like he doesn't give a shit.


When has Randy ever balked at doling out the cash?
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby mistero » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:40 am

Have you seen Garcon in 2011? He has been pretty good with QB's alot worse than McCoy. 70 catches for 947 yards. Beats the crap out of Mo Mass.( 31 catches for 384). He has been taught how to run routes like a pro in Indy.

Little
Garcon
Meachum
Cribbs
Norwood

That's a WR corps we could work with.
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby pup » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:49 am

mistero wrote:Have you seen Garcon in 2011? He has been pretty good with QB's alot worse than McCoy.


Stopped reading right there.

Worse? Maybe. A lot worse? No freaking way. Not possible.
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:29 pm

I'll tell you what, Mistero.....if Garcon gets here, regardless of the qb, we'll bet on his ability to get 600 yards, you can take the over.
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby motherscratcher » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:56 pm

Garcon means boy
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:59 pm

^ nice.
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:11 pm

I think the QB question ultimately comes down to whether or not we/TPTB (the powers that be) feel there is a better QB than RG3 (or whomever else is left) coming via draft in the next season or two. B/C frankly no matter who we draft this year, assuming we are relatively quiet in FA, we most likely are not making the playoffs in 2013. So a stop gap (with the chance to see if there is any further potential) just could be the way they go based upon future college QB prospects.

As a fan I've come to the conclusion that Steve Winwood spoke about, if you see a chance take it.
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:21 pm

FUDU wrote:I think the QB question ultimately comes down to whether or not we/TPTB (the powers that be) feel there is a better QB than RG3 (or whomever else is left) coming via draft in the next season or two. B/C frankly no matter who we draft this year, assuming we are relatively quiet in FA, we most likely are not making the playoffs in 2013. So a stop gap (with the chance to see if there is any further potential) just could be the way they go based upon future college QB prospects.

As a fan I've come to the conclusion that Steve Winwood spoke about, if you see a chance take it.


I'm sure TPTB don't give a damn about who's coming out in the draft in 2013 or 2014. God himself could be declaring for the draft as a QB next year - there's no guarantee they'd be in position to take him.

Even as bad as the Browns were this year, they're only #4. Even with Colt at QB, they'll probably be somewhat better next season. So it's really unlikely they'll be drafting this high again. As a Front Office, you certainly can't count on it (as well you shouldn't).

As far as addressing the QB, or ANY position, there is only 2012. We know what our options are right now - we have no clue about 2013 and beyond. Who comes out, who gets injured, who rises, who falls, what teams are worse, where the Browns pick, which teams need QB's... way to many factors to say "We'll just get our QB next year".
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:29 pm

I agree but I think that is exactly what they are saying (to themselves) if they do not draft RG3 at #4 (if he's there). If not him at #4 then whom & when for the QB position?
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:37 pm

FUDU wrote:If not him at #4 then whom & when for the QB position?


That question scares the shit out of me.
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby mistero » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:25 pm

You know, I'm only trying to look at a problem from all angles. If it was up to me, I'd trade 6 picks to get up there and grab Luck, or stay put and take RG3.

Just saying there is another way if they think Flynn could be the guy. Filling half the holes in FA cuts the turn around time in half.
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby Doc » Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:18 pm

With Philbin going to Miami, and Miami needing a QB, you have to believe that how Miami approaches their QB situation should be an indicator of how we should view Flynn.

Miami has to be in the market for a new QB. It would stand to reason that Team with a QB need + new head coach from GB + best FA QB happens to be from GB = Flynn in Miami. Now, logic states that Miami should be the team hottest for Flynn. Not in a position to draft Luck or RG3, new coach wanting his personnel, etc.

And much like LeBron...money being equal, Flynn goes to South Beach. Unless Miami doesn't pursue Flynn. THEN STAY AWAY. Double edged sword...If Flynn is worth pursuing as "the guy", Miami and Philbin get him unless someone pays ridiculous money + years. If Miami doesn't strongly pursue Flynn, the Philbin knows something and we should avoid like the plague. Basically, the only way you get him is to top Miami's best offer, and by a good chunk I'd have to imagine. I don't see Flynn coming to Cleveland.
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby swerb » Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:30 pm

Good post and good points Doc.
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby leadpipe » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:18 am

Doc wrote:With Philbin going to Miami, and Miami needing a QB, you have to believe that how Miami approaches their QB situation should be an indicator of how we should view Flynn.

Miami has to be in the market for a new QB. It would stand to reason that Team with a QB need + new head coach from GB + best FA QB happens to be from GB = Flynn in Miami. Now, logic states that Miami should be the team hottest for Flynn. Not in a position to draft Luck or RG3, new coach wanting his personnel, etc.

And much like LeBron...money being equal, Flynn goes to South Beach. Unless Miami doesn't pursue Flynn. THEN STAY AWAY. Double edged sword...If Flynn is worth pursuing as "the guy", Miami and Philbin get him unless someone pays ridiculous money + years. If Miami doesn't strongly pursue Flynn, the Philbin knows something and we should avoid like the plague. Basically, the only way you get him is to top Miami's best offer, and by a good chunk I'd have to imagine. I don't see Flynn coming to Cleveland.


Spot on here, and I would add that if anyone is going to go batshit crazy with money, it will be Miami. Stephen Ross is on the brink down there.

Christ, when you chopper in a guy with Jeff Fisher's career mark, you know things are out of hand.
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby yogi » Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:05 pm

Excellent point Doc on Flynn.

If Manning stays at Indy we get a shot at Luck.

If Manning leaves (more probable), Washington may be the destination leaving us as the prime candidate to snag RG3 sitting at 4.

If Manning retires we may have to trade to #2 and stay ahead of Washington.

All very interesting and important to us.
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:23 pm

Doc wrote:With Philbin going to Miami, and Miami needing a QB, you have to believe that how Miami approaches their QB situation should be an indicator of how we should view Flynn.

Miami has to be in the market for a new QB. It would stand to reason that Team with a QB need + new head coach from GB + best FA QB happens to be from GB = Flynn in Miami. Now, logic states that Miami should be the team hottest for Flynn. Not in a position to draft Luck or RG3, new coach wanting his personnel, etc.

And much like LeBron...money being equal, Flynn goes to South Beach. Unless Miami doesn't pursue Flynn. THEN STAY AWAY. Double edged sword...If Flynn is worth pursuing as "the guy", Miami and Philbin get him unless someone pays ridiculous money + years. If Miami doesn't strongly pursue Flynn, the Philbin knows something and we should avoid like the plague. Basically, the only way you get him is to top Miami's best offer, and by a good chunk I'd have to imagine. I don't see Flynn coming to Cleveland.


Good stuff, although as someone that lived in Miami I dispute that everyone is just dying to live there. It's a shithole. I'd rather live almost anywhere else. Give me Detroit in January over Miami in August.

Flynn will choose Miami b/c of Philbin and b/c that's a team that is just a QB away from being dangerous. That's if Miami wants him. I think the Fins are watching the Peyton Manning situation closely. And I wouldn't blame even Philbin for pursuing Manning over Flynn - that's not a black mark on Flynn so much as it's a nod to Manning.

Let's remember that Flynn/Manning to Miami means that one team is out of the RG3 running, leaving us and basically Washington as serious threats to move up to #2.

Manning goes to Miami, Flynn goes to Washington, the Browns can sit tight at 4.
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Re: Go Defense in draft. Offense in FA

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:37 pm

motherscratcher wrote:Garcon means boy


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