RG all in

[Hikohadon]

Total out of left field hypothetical question.

You are sitting there, getting ready to go on the clock. RG3 is there.

Phone rings. It is Jerry Jones.

Romo and #14 for #4 and #21.

You talking?

Yes. I say "Good one". After I've stopped laughing.

[Hikohadon]

I've been hearing (KNR of all places) and reading (Pluto) a lot about RG3 not having enough experience in the WCO to merit the Browns picking him. I would assume that the FO would have to make a commitment to overhauling the WCO to take full advantage of RG3's innate abilities if they were to draft him. I'm not sure that's possible, committed as they are to the WCO.

I don't know (nobody does) whether RG3 would take to the WCO like a duck to water. But that bit of doubt is enough to greatly reconsider what to do with the #4. Maybe the safest play is to take Blackmon or Claiborne? (And because of a stubborn, one-dimensional FO and head coach, miss on a player that could be the second coming of Jesus Montana? It's been done before.)

I'm just not getting this argument from the masses. It's not like many college QB's play the WCO in the first place. Second, didn't they draft Colt McCoy a couple years ago, also a guy with zero experience in a WCO? Did we suddenly forget that our "starting" QB came from a very similar system and the same conference? If they would take a shot on him, why not take a shot on a guy from a similar background but with far more talent?

And I cannot stress this enough... what are RG3's weaknesses as a QB that would cause him to be unable to run the WCO? Is he not accurate enough? Is he not smart enough? (those are rhetorical questions - the answer is clearly no to both).

RG3 has only one weakness as a QB - he's only 6'2 220. It's debatable how big a weakness it is, but that's the only tangible negative one can really present.

Not knowing the system, not taking many snaps under center... if you can teach that shit to a spud with ears like Favre, I'm guessing a guy like RG3 has a pretty good shot too.

[LakeErieWarriors]

If Romo can't do it in Dallas, he sure as shit can't do it in Cleveland.

[peeker643]

And I cannot stress this enough... what are RG3's weaknesses as a QB that would cause him to be unable to run the WCO? Is he not accurate enough? (those are rhetorical questions - the answer is clearly no).

I am begging you and anyone else not to assume this is 'clearly no'.

Why do you say that? I'm not saying he's not accurate, I'm asking what you base it on? Is it the same thing people based it on with Colt? That pretty 70+% completion rate? Because Colt McCoy's college accuracy in no way matriculated with the rest of him to the NFL and there's no way I'm assuming RG3 is accurate based on that completion percentage.

[Hikohadon]

And I cannot stress this enough... what are RG3's weaknesses as a QB that would cause him to be unable to run the WCO? Is he not accurate enough? (those are rhetorical questions - the answer is clearly no).

I am begging you and anyone else not to assume this is 'clearly no'.

Why do you say that? I'm not saying he's not accurate, I'm asking what you base it on? Is it the same thing people based it on with Colt? That pretty 70+% completion rate? Because Colt McCoy's college accuracy in no way matriculated with the rest of him to the NFL and there's no way I'm assuming RG3 is accurate based on that completion percentage.

Neither I nor anyone else can know how RG3 will translate when in the NFL. But, yes, because of his 75% completion rate, you clearly can't claim that he isn't accurate. And due to his college exploits (in the classroom), you clearly can't claim he isn't smart.

Whether that current accuracy evaporates in the NFL a la Colt, I can't say. But I can say that you can't in good faith argue RIGHT NOW, WITH THE INFO WE HAVE BEFORE US, that he isn't accurate enough to run a WCO.

He might develop shortcomings in the future, but we can't anticipate them simply b/c other QB's have done so. Now, if we want to talk about the shortcomings he currently demonstrates...

[jb]

And I cannot stress this enough... what are RG3's weaknesses as a QB that would cause him to be unable to run the WCO? Is he not accurate enough? (those are rhetorical questions - the answer is clearly no).

I am begging you and anyone else not to assume this is 'clearly no'.

Why do you say that? I'm not saying he's not accurate, I'm asking what you base it on? Is it the same thing people based it on with Colt? That pretty 70+% completion rate? Because Colt McCoy's college accuracy in no way matriculated with the rest of him to the NFL and there's no way I'm assuming RG3 is accurate based on that completion percentage.

Very valid point.

The dif is hat RG3 has a top 10% arm and throws a ball on a dime.

Looks tests matter.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

And I cannot stress this enough... what are RG3's weaknesses as a QB that would cause him to be unable to run the WCO? Is he not accurate enough? (those are rhetorical questions - the answer is clearly no).

I am begging you and anyone else not to assume this is 'clearly no'.

Why do you say that? I'm not saying he's not accurate, I'm asking what you base it on? Is it the same thing people based it on with Colt? That pretty 70+% completion rate? Because Colt McCoy's college accuracy in no way matriculated with the rest of him to the NFL and there's no way I'm assuming RG3 is accurate based on that completion percentage.

Very valid point.

The dif is hat RG3 has a top 10% arm and throws a ball on a dime.

Looks tests matter.

RG can throw downfield while running to his left, also

[e0y2e3]

FWIW: Rams already started leaking interest in RG3 to their reporters today. Gotta figure it's the start of the "you bettah call us and offer a trade" games.

[peeker643]

And I cannot stress this enough... what are RG3's weaknesses as a QB that would cause him to be unable to run the WCO? Is he not accurate enough? (those are rhetorical questions - the answer is clearly no).

I am begging you and anyone else not to assume this is 'clearly no'.

Why do you say that? I'm not saying he's not accurate, I'm asking what you base it on? Is it the same thing people based it on with Colt? That pretty 70+% completion rate? Because Colt McCoy's college accuracy in no way matriculated with the rest of him to the NFL and there's no way I'm assuming RG3 is accurate based on that completion percentage.

Neither I nor anyone else can know how RG3 will translate when in the NFL. But, yes, because of his 75% completion rate, you clearly can't claim that he isn't accurate. And due to his college exploits (in the classroom), you clearly can't claim he isn't smart.

Whether that current accuracy evaporates in the NFL a la Colt, I can't say. But I can say that you can't in good faith argue RIGHT NOW, WITH THE INFO WE HAVE BEFORE US, that he isn't accurate enough to run a WCO.

He might develop shortcomings in the future, but we can't anticipate them simply b/c other QB's have done so. Now, if we want to talk about the shortcomings he currently demonstrates...

I'm not claiming he's not accurate.

I'm saying there's no way I'm assuming he's accurate based on his college completion percentage.

You're telling me we can't assume he'll develop shortcomings. I'm saying he may already have them w/o developing them. I don't think Colt necessarily 'developed' inaccuracy issues. I'm more inclined to believe his 'accuracy' at Texas was more due to the fact he had multiple guys on every play who had 2-3 yards on the nearest defenders.

I'll wait to hear the experts dissect his footwork and mechanics and all of that stuff. As for accuracy when bullets are flying? We'll see next fall.

This ain't a flyer in the 3rd round we're talking about. This is the 4th pick (or higher) in the entire draft. Big12 completion percentage ain't on my check list.

Intelligence? Check. But I don't care if he's a Rhodes Scholarship candidate if he can't read defenses. Plenty of smart guys that can't.

Again, not talking about progressions as much as reading defenses.

We'll see on that too.

[motherscratcher]

Well in that case Peek, couldn't you say that about any QB who has ever entered the NFL? Unless you are talking specifically about Big12 QBs, I guess there are two kinds:

1. QBs who we know are inaccurate (Locker)
2. QBs who we don't know to be innacurate (Colt at Texas, RG) but might be.

Is there any way to find out about any QB without seeing them on an NFL field? If the answer is "no" then how can it even factor in when evaluating a QB for the draft?

[peeker643]

Well in that case Peek, couldn't you say that about any QB who has ever entered the NFL? Unless you are talking specifically about Big12 QBs, I guess there are two kinds:

1. QBs who we know are inaccurate (Locker)
2. QBs who we don't know to be innacurate (Colt at Texas, RG) but might be.

Is there any way to find out about any QB without seeing them on an NFL field? If the answer is "no" then how can it even factor in when evaluating a QB for the draft?

Could be me, no doubt. But I'll feel a whole lot better when someone who evaluates QBs for a living tells us what JB told us. And, truth be told, no one DOES know until they play an NFL season which means a great deal more when you're talking about that 3rd round flyer vs. that 3rd overall pick.

I do know those questions are eliminated when you're talking about guys who have actually played NFL season and games. I don't know if Matt Flynn is Matt Cassell or Matt Hasselbeck but I do know he's demonstrated the ability to have success in regular season NFL games. Maybe he's a place holder when all is said and done.

I'm just to the point where I'd prefer the known NFL commodity as opposed to the 2nd best QB in the draft when I'm potentially paying that steep a price.

YMMV- I dig that. I have no more idea than anyone. Just throwing shit against the wall.

[e0y2e3]

Peeks is a French twelve biggot. Arm strength directly ties to NFL accuracy being maintained from college unless you are Chad Pennington, this is why Quinn dropped and Colt went in round three. You can't suck at the deep call and be an accurate passer in the NFL unless you are a strange Pennington style freak. And super college accurate Quinn played a brutal college schedule Peeks

[Hikohadon]

I'm not claiming he's not accurate.

I'm saying there's no way I'm assuming he's accurate based on his college completion percentage.

You're telling me we can't assume he'll develop shortcomings. I'm saying he may already have them w/o developing them. I don't think Colt necessarily 'developed' inaccuracy issues. I'm more inclined to believe his 'accuracy' at Texas was more due to the fact he had multiple guys on every play who had 2-3 yards on the nearest defenders.

I'll wait to hear the experts dissect his footwork and mechanics and all of that stuff. As for accuracy when bullets are flying? We'll see next fall.

This ain't a flyer in the 3rd round we're talking about. This is the 4th pick (or higher) in the entire draft. Big12 completion percentage ain't on my check list.

Intelligence? Check. But I don't care if he's a Rhodes Scholarship candidate if he can't read defenses. Plenty of smart guys that can't.

Again, not talking about progressions as much as reading defenses.

We'll see on that too.

Respectfully... WTF are you talking about?

You're not assuming he's accurate based on his 72% completion percentage, which was definitely not based on a conglomeration of 5 yard passes. Because all his receivers were so wide open that he could've thrown the ball straight up in the air and still completed it.

Let's assume that's true - what do your eyes tell you? When you watch him play, is it all about wide open dudes making circus catches on his poorly thrown balls? Or is he hitting the guys in stride?

Don't matter if they're wide open or not - still gotta hit that spot.

He might already have shortcomings. He might have the clap. He might be a Russian spy. We don't know. All we can know for sure is what we see, what he does, what he accomplishes.

Every fucking guy we take at 4 could be a bust. That's what scouts get paid for. That's why GM's have about a 5 year life expectancy.

But making could-be's and what-if's up about RG3's potential shortcomings is just ridiculous. If you can point to something you've seen as a serious doubt, then that's justifiable. "I don't know about his accuracy b/c of Colt McCoy and the Big 12" is just paranoia, imho.

[peeker643]

Peeks is a French twelve biggot. Arm strength directly ties to NFL accuracy being maintained from college unless you are Chad Pennington, this is why Quinn dropped and Colt went in round three. You can't suck at the deep call and be an accurate passer in the NFL unless you are a strange Pennington style freak. And super college accurate Quinn played a brutal college schedule Peeks

Hey, you want to judge it based on arm strength and ball placement that's great. I'll watch the tape and I've read a lot of good things regarding that ( http://seahawksdraftblog.com/robert-gri ... ing-report ). And when I hear it from multiple sources I'll be more fully convinced.

But please don't quote me college completion rates. To be brutally honest, I don't give a shit why someone lies. If they lie I can't and won't trust them. And you just named two players in the last 5 years that have ended up here based on their ability to be accurate as judged by completion percentages and they weren't accurate or able to nail down a job.

You can certainly eliminate a guy for me with them (Locker's issues in college are never going to improve to the point where he's known for his accuracy) but I'm not interested in your Colt McCoy/Brady Quinn/Timmy Chang/RGIII ascensions to NFL QB vis-a-vis college completion % as an indicator for NFL accuracy.

[peeker643]

I'm not claiming he's not accurate.

I'm saying there's no way I'm assuming he's accurate based on his college completion percentage.

You're telling me we can't assume he'll develop shortcomings. I'm saying he may already have them w/o developing them. I don't think Colt necessarily 'developed' inaccuracy issues. I'm more inclined to believe his 'accuracy' at Texas was more due to the fact he had multiple guys on every play who had 2-3 yards on the nearest defenders.

I'll wait to hear the experts dissect his footwork and mechanics and all of that stuff. As for accuracy when bullets are flying? We'll see next fall.

This ain't a flyer in the 3rd round we're talking about. This is the 4th pick (or higher) in the entire draft. Big12 completion percentage ain't on my check list.

Intelligence? Check. But I don't care if he's a Rhodes Scholarship candidate if he can't read defenses. Plenty of smart guys that can't.

Again, not talking about progressions as much as reading defenses.

We'll see on that too.

Respectfully... WTF are you talking about?

You're not assuming he's accurate based on his 72% completion percentage, which was definitely not based on a conglomeration of 5 yard passes. Because all his receivers were so wide open that he could've thrown the ball straight up in the air and still completed it.

Let's assume that's true - what do your eyes tell you? When you watch him play, is it all about wide open dudes making circus catches on his poorly thrown balls? Or is he hitting the guys in stride?

Don't matter if they're wide open or not - still gotta hit that spot.

He might already have shortcomings. He might have the clap. He might be a Russian spy. We don't know. All we can know for sure is what we see, what he does, what he accomplishes.

Every fucking guy we take at 4 could be a bust. That's what scouts get paid for. That's why GM's have about a 5 year life expectancy.

But making could-be's and what-if's up about RG3's potential shortcomings is just ridiculous. If you can point to something you've seen as a serious doubt, then that's justifiable. "I don't know about his accuracy b/c of Colt McCoy and the Big 12" is just paranoia, imho.

Last time- "I don't know about his accuracy b/c of Colt McCoy and the Big 12" is no fucking different than: "He's accurate because of his college completion percentage".

It's not.

I'm not making up anything. I'm saying you can't judge whether he's accurate based on that number. If ya could, Colt McCoy would be the accuratest mofo in the game.

[e0y2e3]

I feel like you are putting yourself into a corner with an unwinnable argument Peeks.

RG3 may very well lose himself in the speed of the game come NFL time and not be accurate, but he has proven a combination of arm strength and accuracy that is seldom seen at the collegian level. This wasn't systemic success.

Hiko and I say this from watching, seeing and believing. If you chose to wait for others to see this please do (again, no issues, this is why no one wanted Quinn or McCoy but da Brownz).

However instead of just saying "I getchya, I want to see if he tanks because of potential accuracy problems" you are throwing an argument based toward the idiots that just go "LOOK HE COMPLETED A LOT OF PASSES" out there at everyone.

I feel ya, fuck those idiots that didn't watch him. Welcome to my never-ending battles with every fucktard on this site that sees black and calls him Vick or Cam.

You need to separate your points, both make sense, but when you overlap it gets silly.

[peeker643]

I feel like you are putting yourself into a corner with an unwinnable argument Peeks.

RG3 may very well lose himself in the speed of the game come NFL time and not be accurate, but he has proven a combination of arm strength and accuracy that is seldom seen at the collegian level. This wasn't systemic success.

Hiko and I say this from watching, seeing and believing. If you chose to wait for others to see this please do (again, no issues, this is why no one wanted Quinn or McCoy but da Brownz).

However instead of just saying "I getchya, I want to see if he tanks because of potential accuracy problems" you are throwing an argument based toward the idiots that just go "LOOK HE COMPLETED A LOT OF PASSES" out there at everyone.

I feel ya, fuck those idiots that didn't watch him. Welcome to my never-ending battles with every fucktard on this site that sees black and calls him Vick or Cam.

You need to separate your points, both make sense, but when you overlap it gets silly.

But, yes, because of his 75% completion rate, you clearly can't claim that he isn't accurate. And due to his college exploits (in the classroom), you clearly can't claim he isn't smart.

Whether that current accuracy evaporates in the NFL a la Colt, I can't say. But I can say that you can't in good faith argue RIGHT NOW, WITH THE INFO WE HAVE BEFORE US, that he isn't accurate enough to run a WCO.

There's nothing here that mentions the blend of arm strength, mechanics and ability to put a ball in a window or over the top/between of zones.

It says completion %.

That's where I have an issue. You can't take that number alone and know the first thing about anything. That was my initial comment and it stands. I'm not blending anything there that I can see.

My opinion.

[peeker643]

And again, FTR, I'm not saying he isn't or won't be accurate. Just the metric being used is, imo, a useless measure of what it portends to quantify. Or, maybe, it does quantify it perfectly well but fails to qualify it.

I'm not disparaging you and Hiko and your opinions based on watching the guy. You guys put the time and effort in and I know that.

Or maybe I'm simply just twisted up and not expressing it as clearly as I could.

Use release, mechanics, vision, footwork, arm strength, repeatable delivery and all of that. Hell, use 'accuracy' in terms of throwing the football exactly where he wants to. I just have a problem with completion percentage as the guideline. It's far too dependent on way too many variables to give me an accurate understanding of his accuracy and it's lied to me before.

All done. Thanks for putting up with it.

[mattvan1]

And again, FTR, I'm not saying he isn't or won't be accurate. Just the metric being used is, imo, a useless measure of what it portends to quantify. Or, maybe, it does quantify it perfectly well but fails to qualify it.

I'm not disparaging you and Hiko and your opinions based on watching the guy. You guys put the time and effort in and I know that.

Or maybe I'm simply just twisted up and not expressing it as clearly as I could.

Use release, mechanics, vision, footwork, arm strength, repeatable delivery and all of that. Hell, use 'accuracy' in terms of throwing the football exactly where he wants to. I just have a problem with completion percentage as the guideline. It's far too dependent on way too many variables to give me an accurate understanding of his accuracy and it's lied to me before.

All done. Thanks for putting up with it.

Football Outsiders has done a pretty good job empirically showing that low completion % QBs (below 60% I believe) in the NCAA do not translate into good NFL QBs. What Peeks is saying, as I understand it, is that a high completeion % QB in the NCAA does not necessarily mean success at the NFL level either.

And I would tend to agree.

[leadpipe]

My view on this topic is different than 7 years ago.

Right now, I'll roll the dice on a QB that has the potential to be great over an 80%er at any other position on the field (there are no locks)

I don't claim to know what RG3 can do, and will be, but I do know he has the skills to be GREAT. Only thing that matters at that position if you wanna win it all.

Getting a solid guy and surrounding him with tools means two things nowadays;

1. Jack

2. Shit

And I'm not even getting into trades and all the other bullshit, I'm just saying if I'm sitting at 4, and he's there, there ain't a player on that board that can potentially give the Browns what he can. Nothing even close.

The NFL game is becoming somewhat of a joke, the way it's slanted so much to the quarterback. Clearly the way to get in on the fun - as history has shown us over and over again - is using a high pick to pick up an elite. And the reality is, they very well might get "good" enough to stumble upon 5 or 6 wins the next few seasons - point being, it could become YEARS before the opportunity to draft a potential elite at this position arises.

And I share some of the concerns Peeker does, plus I'd just be naturally nervous that whomever the Browns take would be destined to blow. But I'm rollin' the dice here simply because...

THE WHOLE GAME IS THE QUARTERBACK.

[peeker643]

And again, FTR, I'm not saying he isn't or won't be accurate. Just the metric being used is, imo, a useless measure of what it portends to quantify. Or, maybe, it does quantify it perfectly well but fails to qualify it.

I'm not disparaging you and Hiko and your opinions based on watching the guy. You guys put the time and effort in and I know that.

Or maybe I'm simply just twisted up and not expressing it as clearly as I could.

Use release, mechanics, vision, footwork, arm strength, repeatable delivery and all of that. Hell, use 'accuracy' in terms of throwing the football exactly where he wants to. I just have a problem with completion percentage as the guideline. It's far too dependent on way too many variables to give me an accurate understanding of his accuracy and it's lied to me before.

All done. Thanks for putting up with it.

Football Outsiders has done a pretty good job empirically showing that low completion % QBs (below 60% I believe) in the NCAA do not translate into good NFL QBs. What Peeks is saying, as I understand it, is that a high completeion % QB in the NCAA does not necessarily mean success at the NFL level either.

And I would tend to agree.

That's a part of it but I'm not so much looking even that far down the road at ultimate 'success' per se. Though clearly that's the end game.

Maybe the easiest way to explain what I'm trying to say is I want someone to tell me about RG3's accuracy without ever bringing up his completion percentage. Eliminate that number. Tell me (show me) about the precision and exactness of his throws and not receptions/attempts and all the variables that entails (competition, talent disparities, drops, deflections, wrong routes, hail mary at the end of a half, no defense allowed in French 12 ( ).

[mattvan1]

I want someone to tell me about RG3's accuracy without ever bringing up his completion percentage. Eliminate that number. Tell me (show me) about the precision and exactness of his throws and not receptions/attempts and all the variables that entails (competition, talent disparities, drops, deflections, wrong routes, hail mary at the end of a half, no defense allowed in French 12 ( ).

If that's what you want then I doubt you're gonna find it here. I mean, sure we're all experts, and most of us have watched coach's tape of every game RGII has ever played, but typically that kind of info will cost you. I'd like to help and am represented by Bob LoMonte - give him a call and maybe we can work something out.

[motherscratcher]

There seems to be a pretty large consensus on this board that if RG is there at 4, the Browns should take him. There is a lot smaller contingent that seems to want to trade upnto make sure we get him. Most seem to want to roll the dice and hope he drops to 4.

I'm still in the group in favor of trading up, but I'm hedging like a mofo. I guess it comes down to, what is the cost.

So, what is an acceptable cost to trade up?

I'd hate to give up #22 this year and I think it's a terrible idea to give up next years #1. So, it took 2nd and 4th this year, is that acceptable? Do you think that would even come close to getting it done?

[Hikohadon]

There's nothing here that mentions the blend of arm strength, mechanics and ability to put a ball in a window or over the top/between of zones.

It says completion %.

That's where I have an issue. You can't take that number alone and know the first thing about anything. That was my initial comment and it stands. I'm not blending anything there that I can see.

My opinion.

Note to self... don't mention "completion percentage" around Peeks anymore...

You must realize that I went on to say "what do your eyes tell you" and "watch him play". I threw that "cp" out there just sort of b/c I was surprised that THAT was what you were worried about... any QB that comes into the NFL might be inaccurate, but I'll worry more about that with guys like Jake Locker (this time last year) than RG3.

And that's not just their CP. That's from watching them. It just so happens that in their case their CP's reflect how they look.

I too think that stats lie as oft as they make a point, I just don't think that RG3's stat is a lie, b/c of watching him throw the ball.

[SoulDawg74]

And again, FTR, I'm not saying he isn't or won't be accurate. Just the metric being used is, imo, a useless measure of what it portends to quantify. Or, maybe, it does quantify it perfectly well but fails to qualify it.

I'm not disparaging you and Hiko and your opinions based on watching the guy. You guys put the time and effort in and I know that.

Or maybe I'm simply just twisted up and not expressing it as clearly as I could.

Use release, mechanics, vision, footwork, arm strength, repeatable delivery and all of that. Hell, use 'accuracy' in terms of throwing the football exactly where he wants to. I just have a problem with completion percentage as the guideline. It's far too dependent on way too many variables to give me an accurate understanding of his accuracy and it's lied to me before.

All done. Thanks for putting up with it.

Football Outsiders has done a pretty good job empirically showing that low completion % QBs (below 60% I believe) in the NCAA do not translate into good NFL QBs. What Peeks is saying, as I understand it, is that a high completeion % QB in the NCAA does not necessarily mean success at the NFL level either.

And I would tend to agree.

That's a part of it but I'm not so much looking even that far down the road at ultimate 'success' per se. Though clearly that's the end game.

Maybe the easiest way to explain what I'm trying to say is I want someone to tell me about RG3's accuracy without ever bringing up his completion percentage. Eliminate that number. Tell me (show me) about the precision and exactness of his throws and not receptions/attempts and all the variables that entails (competition, talent disparities, drops, deflections, wrong routes, hail mary at the end of a half, no defense allowed in French 12 ( ).

SD:

Hey Peeks , slap your self upside the head stand attention and pay attention .

Your over thinking this .

What do your lying eyes tell ya , when you see this man throw every pass imaginable on line and on target from 20-30 yard ropes to drop over the shoulder deep routes to short and intermediate loops with timing and touch , on time and on target .

The balls that hit the ground are the ones he throws away or out right drops .

He spots a 40 yard deep route like a hand off but most telling and what most ignorant asshole experts don't factor into their accounts .

Is the dissonance between arm to footwork to body location .

In effect RG3 can hit a target on the move in the fashion an M1 Tank going cross country at 40 miles an hour rumbling thru fields can fire on the move and still stuff a shell up a tail pipe with a direct hit .

His receivers simply have to open their hand keep in focus and then clutch the prize as he gift wraps the package better than the stork at the delivery room .

Now I'm gonna tell ya this once and its free .

You didn't pay attention when I told ya to ignore the Carp clapping their gums on Newton .

Don't be no fuckin fool again so put this in your pipe and smoke it.

RG3 is better , a better leader, smarter than the A student know it all teachers pet who has a quicker delivery than Dan Marino the Cat quicks and wrist flick power of a Warren moon and world class sprinters speed if all hell breaks loose.

But .

Unlike Vick and or the scrambling QB et el .

He uses this gift ala Aaron Rodgers to put pressure on the defense , not set sprint cup records or pad his running stats or rushing TD' numbers .

The man would just as soon throw a down field block to spring a teammate as toss a touchdown pass.

Your looking at the ultimate warrior , ultimate teammate , and the best athlete and prospect in the draft , who is taylormade for this system beyond what even Steve young or Joe Montana brought to the table before hand .

The question is not whats wrong with RG3 , whats wrong with you numbnutts :)

Grow a pair .

That is all .

Now clean up that mess soldier and don't make me come back in here again.

SoulDawg

[peeker643]

^ Awesome.

Okay. I've seen the dude play two full games; Oklahoma and UW.
He was tremendous against OK and blah against UW and I watched him miss guys in the UW game. Too much time off, whatever... less than accurate at the end of the day in that game.

If y'all have watched every other throw and the kid is equal parts Patton, Einstein, Montana and Young, well, there ya go.

That's that.

[e0y2e3]

RGIII is the D-Rose of QBs.

[peeker643]

RGIII is the D-Rose of QBs.

Or the Kyrie of QBs... apparently the same thing, right?

[Gradysmanldy]

RGIII is the D-Rose of QBs.

Or the Kyrie of QBs... apparently the same thing, right?

That color of troll is not becoming on you, Peeks.

[peeker643]

RGIII is the D-Rose of QBs.

Or the Kyrie of QBs... apparently the same thing, right?

That color of troll is not becoming on you, Peeks.

I just like to ramp Lee's blood pressure up. I can see him rolling his eyes and shaking his head in disgust.

But seriously, we'd be okay if RG3 was D-Rose or Kyrie, no? Currently we have Ryan Hollins under center.

[jb]

Could be me, no doubt. But I'll feel a whole lot better when someone who evaluates QBs for a living tells us what JB told us.

Right. In April they will or they won't. This is why this time of year blows.

Thread upon stupid thread.

May as well go to the Lube.

[peeker643]

Could be me, no doubt. But I'll feel a whole lot better when someone who evaluates QBs for a living tells us what JB told us.

Right. In April they will or they won't. This is why this time of year blows.

Thread upon stupid thread.

May as well go to the Lube.

You're talking wings again or something else this time?

[jb]

and blah against UW

Had to read the 75 times before it sunk in u are serious.

[peeker643]

and blah against UW

Had to read the 75 times before it sunk in u are serious.

He wasn't sharp against UW and I watched him miss Kendall Wright by 8 yards when Wright had 10 yards on his cover. Go back and watch that game if you can stand it.

He didn't impress me in that joke of a game in terms of throwing the football.

YMMV

[SoulDawg74]

and blah against UW

Had to read the 75 times before it sunk in u are serious.

He wasn't sharp against UW and I watched him miss Kendall Wright by 8 yards when Wright had 10 yards on his cover. Go back and watch that game if you can stand it.

He didn't impress me in that joke of a game in terms of throwing the football.

YMMV

SD:

heres the mileage your so ho hum over .

Griffin was 24 of 33 for 295 yards - and his only touchdown throw came on the game's opening drive.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/footba ... z1jv9Ts0x6

However , what you missed was a QB content to win the game by any means necessary instead of pressing and padding his stats when he knew the cameras would be rolling .

he didn't go all Joe Flacco pussy face hurt feelings worrying about his stats , , the kid got the balls to do whatever it takes to win

He was more than content to hand off instead of forcing passes when his backs ran for damn near four hundred t\yards and in fact was seen running some twenty yards downfield throwing blocks for his running back after handing off on a draw play then passing him up and getting in front of him down field to make those blocks .

now I ask ya , is your problem that he makes it look to easy , he's too good to be true , or you can't possibly get a grip on the fact the Cleveland Browns , yes them pumpkin helmet wearing muthas , would even be considering drafting a guy so talented instead of trading him so somebody else can use his talents and go to the superbowl.

remember now before you answer, this kid is a redshirt soph , and hasn't even finished growing , yet the maturity
and selflessness far exceeds his years .

and

Its ok to answer that your really that fucked up , because I won't hold it against ya ,.

years of watching the Browns certifies everybody in here as nuts .


SoulDawg

[rebelwithoutaclue]

There seems to be a pretty large consensus on this board that if RG is there at 4, the Browns should take him. There is a lot smaller contingent that seems to want to trade upnto make sure we get him. Most seem to want to roll the dice and hope he drops to 4.

I'm still in the group in favor of trading up, but I'm hedging like a mofo. I guess it comes down to, what is the cost.

So, what is an acceptable cost to trade up?

I'd hate to give up #22 this year and I think it's a terrible idea to give up next years #1. So, it took 2nd and 4th this year, is that acceptable? Do you think that would even come close to getting it done?

I'm still firmly in the trade up camp. I'd give up the 2 firsts (1 first really since you're getting back a 1st) with a 3rd/4th rounder this year (gotta keep the high 2nd for someone to pair with RG3) then another 2nd/3rd next year. Should be able to get it done to move up only 2 spots.


You've got the ammo. Get it done Heckert.

[peeker643]

No doubt re: the UW game. He ran for a tremendous TD himself and he handed the ball to three different backs who ran for 100+ (one for 200+).

He didn't need to be sharp and he wasn't, no matter who might want to revise what went down.

I don't have an issue at all taking him.

None (although I'm still not moving up

My issue was, is and will be assuming that completion percentage means accurate and that it may translate to the NFL.

RG3's may because of mechanics and arm strength, etc. But it's not a causal relationship between comp% and NFL-related accuracy.

Add that to seeing him miss a few throws against UW and it makes me wonder some.

But that doesn't mean I'm not fucked up.

[SoulDawg74]

No doubt re: the UW game. He ran for a tremendous TD himself and he handed the ball to three different backs who ran for 100+ (one for 200+).

He didn't need to be sharp and he wasn't, no matter who might want to revise what went down.

I don't have an issue at all taking him.

None (although I'm still not moving up

My issue was, is and will be assuming that completion percentage means accurate and that it may translate to the NFL.

RG3's may because of mechanics and arm strength, etc. But it's not a causal relationship between comp% and NFL-related accuracy.

Add that to seeing him miss a few throws against UW and it makes me wonder some.

But that doesn't mean I'm not fucked up.

SD:

Well thats a releif , all my friends are fucked up so I'm glad i don't have to worry no more about you.

If you've ever played Golf or competed , you'll know that try as you will , nor how much you practice sometimes you just can't get that A game to translate from the Matt or the practice field to the game , for a litanay of reasons .

What I like about RG3 is that while the other QB was having a super showing that day and even outclassing him stats wise , he never lost focus on his game nor the goal which was to win the game .

Too often you see guys pitch it in the ditch when they don't have their best and succumb to frustration when things don't go according to hoyle or they get their lip bloody .

I saw a guy did in when not playing his best and figuire out the best way to come out on top .

bodes well IMo that when he gets knocked on his ass in the NFL and make no mistake about it he will get knocked on his ass just lie evry mortal who ever played the game before him had to take his lumps .

butt for me the lesson is he'll come up swinging instead of punch drunk and lost ala little Colty ..

In my mind if he takes a shot from Harrison like Colt took , he goes in and delivers the knockout blow while unconscious instinctively , then tells ya a year later he doesn't remember throwing the TD just the blood in his mouth the next morning and all he remember was he was pissed off.

PS

"""I'm still not moving up """

SD:

Thats been taken out your hands and out of the pervue of the Big Pimpin Fraud also .

Randy wants a QB and PhatWalrus ass will have to bust a move.

RG3 or Flynn or both will depend on how far he sticks his foot up mikes ass.

The Browns will upgrade the position so you can take that to the bank , and Thank God.


SoulDawg

[FUDU]

No doubt re: the UW game. He ran for a tremendous TD himself and he handed the ball to three different backs who ran for 100+ (one for 200+).

He didn't need to be sharp and he wasn't, no matter who might want to revise what went down.

I don't have an issue at all taking him.

None (although I'm still not moving up

My issue was, is and will be assuming that completion percentage means accurate and that it may translate to the NFL.

RG3's may because of mechanics and arm strength, etc. But it's not a causal relationship between comp% and NFL-related accuracy.

Add that to seeing him miss a few throws against UW and it makes me wonder some.

But that doesn't mean I'm not fucked up.

I remember this one cat in college that was as tough as a tough as bull, had the heart of a lion and was extremely accurate, then he went on to the NFL.

I wonder what happened to him....

[Hikohadon]

I remember this one cat in college that was as tough as a tough as bull, had the heart of a lion and was extremely accurate, then he went on to the NFL.

I wonder what happened to him....

He had, has, and always will have a petunia for an arm.

[SoulDawg74]

No doubt re: the UW game. He ran for a tremendous TD himself and he handed the ball to three different backs who ran for 100+ (one for 200+).

He didn't need to be sharp and he wasn't, no matter who might want to revise what went down.

I don't have an issue at all taking him.

None (although I'm still not moving up

My issue was, is and will be assuming that completion percentage means accurate and that it may translate to the NFL.

RG3's may because of mechanics and arm strength, etc. But it's not a causal relationship between comp% and NFL-related accuracy.

Add that to seeing him miss a few throws against UW and it makes me wonder some.

But that doesn't mean I'm not fucked up.

I remember this one cat in college that was as tough as a tough as bull, had the heart of a lion and was extremely accurate, then he went on to the NFL.

I wonder what happened to him....

SD:

He killed himself in tears disappointed that you would never see him in so great a light as Peyton manning .

So its all your fault.


SoulDawg

[LakeErieWarriors]

My QB wish list is as follows:
1) Luck. Quite possibly the best QB prospect since Manning.
2) RGIII. He's the real deal; going to be an elite QB/just below that upper echelon of NFL QB's for the years to come. That's just my prediction.
3) Flynn. The best thing about this option is the fact that the Browns won't have to give up as much as they would for the other two. Downside: IMO, Flynn will never be an elite QB. We are looking at Flacco/Alex Smith/Eli (though Eli might be elite status sooner than later), all of whom are playing this weekend. And this is fine if A)Running game improves B)Defense goes from good to great C)They get a solid recieving corps in there and finally, D)Improved OL. I'd much rather have an all around better team than a team with the best QB in the league on it. If you're a Saints/GB/Colts fan, you might be thinking the same thing.

[Gradysmanldy]

"If you're a Saints/GB/Colts fan, you might be thinking the same thing."

And you'd have a championship in the last ten years, whereas Jets/Chargers/Ratbirds/Falcons are saying "God I wish we had an elite QB"

Don't start the "narrative" all over again.

[Hikohadon]

If you're a Saints/GB/Colts fan, you might be thinking the same thing.

I doubt you'll find many Saints or GB fans that would trade their team straight up for SF's or Baltimore's roster. Just like the Colts with Manning, the window will be open for the Saints and the Packers as long as Brees and Rodgers are there. I can't say the same about the Niners and the Ravens and their QB's.

[jb]

My QB wish list is as follows:
1) Luck. Quite possibly the best QB prospect since Manning.
2) RGIII. He's the real deal; going to be an elite QB/just below that upper echelon of NFL QB's for the years to come. That's just my prediction.
3) Flynn. The best thing about this option is the fact that the Browns won't have to give up as much as they would for the other two. Downside: IMO, Flynn will never be an elite QB. We are looking at Flacco/Alex Smith/Eli (though Eli might be elite status sooner than later), all of whom are playing this weekend. And this is fine if A)Running game improves B)Defense goes from good to great C)They get a solid recieving corps in there and finally, D)Improved OL. I'd much rather have an all around better team than a team with the best QB in the league on it. If you're a Saints/GB/Colts fan, you might be thinking the same thing.

You forgot:
4. A three way competition of McCoy, Wallace and Kolb and a sales job by the FO as Paddy tries to find his gut feeling.

Ugliest three way since Cincinnati-style Chilli or Rosanne, Rosie and Chas Bono.

[e0y2e3]

Kevin Kolb on the cheap >>>>>> Matt Flynn on the expensive.

THEY ARE THE SAME PERSON

[JCoz]

Kevin Kolb on the cheap >>>>>> Matt Flynn on the expensive.

THEY ARE THE SAME PERSON

I agree.

[JCoz]

My QB wish list is as follows:
1) Luck. Quite possibly the best QB prospect since Manning.
2) RGIII. He's the real deal; going to be an elite QB/just below that upper echelon of NFL QB's for the years to come. That's just my prediction.
3) Flynn. The best thing about this option is the fact that the Browns won't have to give up as much as they would for the other two. Downside: IMO, Flynn will never be an elite QB. We are looking at Flacco/Alex Smith/Eli (though Eli might be elite status sooner than later), all of whom are playing this weekend. And this is fine if A)Running game improves B)Defense goes from good to great C)They get a solid recieving corps in there and finally, D)Improved OL. I'd much rather have an all around better team than a team with the best QB in the league on it. If you're a Saints/GB/Colts fan, you might be thinking the same thing.

Given the ammo the Browns have this season, why would option 2 preclude the browns from improving the rest of the team in the process?

[Hikohadon]

Given the ammo the Browns have this season, why would option 2 preclude the browns from improving the rest of the team in the process?

Thank you. When people speak of RG3 failing because there's "nothing around him", they seem to assume that he would be the only draft pick and that Free Agency doesn't exist.

RG3 or no RG3, I expect Heckert to make moves to acquire playmakers and to shore up the RT spot and to improve the Defense. This isn't a "one or the other" scenario, we can draft our cake and eat it too.

[JCoz]

Given the ammo the Browns have this season, why would option 2 preclude the browns from improving the rest of the team in the process?

Thank you. When people speak of RG3 failing because there's "nothing around him", they seem to assume that he would be the only draft pick and that Free Agency doesn't exist.

RG3 or no RG3, I expect Heckert to make moves to acquire playmakers and to shore up the RT spot and to improve the Defense. This isn't a "one or the other" scenario, we can draft our cake and eat it too.

Exactly. Lets say you have to move up for RG3. even so, he's only two picks for the browns. I'm not sure that our 1st and 2nd this year aren't worth more than what other teams will offer. Our two first are clearly more than anyone else has, be that both this season or one this season and one the next.

We have 9 draft picks this year and free agency. You can add plenty to the team with 7 picks starting at the top of round 2 after aquiring RG3.