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'Bama Vs. LSU II

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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby dmiles » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:22 pm

I've never looked at the Plus-1 scenarios but let me ask this.

Today in the BCS after the title game we tend to go in this rotational order where traditional conference winners that don't make the BCS are placed into their game, and we start some round-robin process (which alterlates) in placing the rest of the games. Behind the scenes deals are cut, matchups made based on fan-bases, and the last bcs bowl is usually stuck with someone like Boise. Is the plus one a one-game winner-take-all? Or does it mean each of the 4 bcs bowl winners in a 4-man tourney? The reason is I ask is because if it's a plus-1 only you'd think that matching up BCS 1-4 in one bowl and BCS 2-3 in the other would have to happen.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby Triple-S » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:49 pm

How I'd do it would be going by conference champions first off. Can't win your conference? tough. Now. A possible at-large provision could be made for a team like 'Bama if a team that wins it's conference is outside of the top 10/5 when the final rankings are released, but for the sake of valuing the regular season, you place a lot of stock in that.

So, in this regards:

LSU would have clinched the number 1 seed.
Oklahoma St. the number 2 thanks to winning the French XII
Oregon the number 3 seed.
And the 4th seed either being Wisconsin or Alabama depending on whether or not we're going top 5 or ten.

in 06 for the imfamous choke job done by tosu?

Ohio State the Number 1 seed
Florida the Number 2 seed
Loisville the Number 3 seed
Oklahoma or Michigan as the 4 seed.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby pup » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:44 pm

Plus 1 =

BCS 1 vs BCS 4
BCS 2 vs BCS 3

Winners play

You can dream up hopeful scenarios about conference champs and the like, but they will present this like it is an addition to a very good system. Anything else admits this system blows and opens door they have no plans to open.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:57 am

pup wrote:Plus 1 =

BCS 1 vs BCS 4
BCS 2 vs BCS 3

Winners play


Done deal, book it, sign me up.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby pup » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:07 am

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
pup wrote:Plus 1 =

BCS 1 vs BCS 4
BCS 2 vs BCS 3

Winners play


Done deal, book it, sign me up.


What if it is:

Bama 1
LSU 2
Arkansas 3
Florida 4

:lmfao:
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby jb » Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:52 pm

pup wrote:Plus 1 =

BCS 1 vs BCS 4
BCS 2 vs BCS 3

Winners play

You can dream up hopeful scenarios about conference champs and the like, but they will present this like it is an addition to a very good system. Anything else admits this system blows and opens door they have no plans to open.



These guys who make the BCS decisions are morons.

"Does anyone have any creative ideas as to how to get more people interested in the BCS national championship game and legitimize this extension of a MNC in the face of increasing criticism and declining ratings?"

"I propose we do exactly the same thing. Except we'll add one more game."

"Brilliant! All in favor say Aye".

"AYE!"

"Opposed?"

Silence.

"Motion carries unanimously".

Complete idiots. 6 year olds now fill out brackets in March and look what CBS & the NCAA have done to that thing since about what, 1992? Money has exploded exponentially. And yet the BCS is the only championship outside of the auspices of the NCAA because of the boosters/trustees in the conference schools overriding the presidents.

A farce.

REAL PLAYOFFS NOW.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby Triple-S » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:49 pm

I honestly never got the argument that adding a playoff suddenly makes CFB into the NFl, and the regular season meaningless. Kirk Herbstrait always drags this out as the great end-all to CFB having a playoff.

I hope to god this isn't a bad analogy, but I keep thinking about High School Football, and especially in Stark County. You need every win for points, and sometimes you have to pray to god someone gets knocked off in the final week.

If you try your best to have it match the HS football set up (paging Joe Eitel), without over doing it and making the regular season still mean something, it sure as hell can be done.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby pup » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:01 pm

Here is what a playoff kills.

Money. Yes, the NC game would be epic.

But that round of 8? That is 4 bowl games being replaced. You think tOSU fans are traveling to see that round? And then the Football 4 round? Nobody is traveling to that, because they are anticipating the Finals. So 2 more bowl games that lose $.


So you are losing 6 bowl games worth of money to some stadium and sponsors. To jam pack a stadium for a game that is already jam packed.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:59 pm

pup wrote:What if it is:

Bama 1
LSU 2
Arkansas 3
Florida 4

:lmfao:


Nah gunnah happan, at least not with any conference that has a conference title game.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:02 pm

It's not the total amount of money - it's the greasy hands that would be empty minus the current system.

Think modern politics.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby furls » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:41 pm

Playoff discussions make me tired. The should just have playoffs with homefield advantage, tOSU fans would fill the shoe to see the round of 8. 'Bama fans would fill DB Stadium to see 'Bama in any round.

It would be cool to see a team like 'Bama or LSU have to come to Columbus or Lincoln in January!

Whatever, that makes too much sense and cuts out the bowls, so it won't happen.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby Triple-S » Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:58 pm

BCS director was on 92.3 today.

Either he's a humoungous dipshit, or he's to the point where he honestly believes everything he says. Deadspin will likely have it up within 24 hours. But some of the classic lines were as follows:

-He called Notre Dame a relevant football team. (This is not 1993)

-He said that if there was a playoff, the debate for who would be the unlucky team out would shift from 2/3, to 4/5 or 8/9 and thus it's not even worth it.

-He claimed that some of the 'Bama coaches claimed, that due to the injuries to players during the game the week before that they would not have been up to full speed for a game after. Thus he claimed the championship would not truly be on the field, but in the training room
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby jb » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:12 pm

pup wrote:Here is what a playoff kills.

Money. Yes, the NC game would be epic.

But that round of 8? That is 4 bowl games being replaced. You think tOSU fans are traveling to see that round? And then the Football 4 round? Nobody is traveling to that, because they are anticipating the Finals. So 2 more bowl games that lose $.


So you are losing 6 bowl games worth of money to some stadium and sponsors. To jam pack a stadium for a game that is already jam packed.



So play them at the home seed stadium and the joint sells out.

Duh.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby jb » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:13 pm

Triple-S wrote:BCS director was on 92.3 today.

Either he's a humoungous dipshit, or he's to the point where he honestly believes everything he says. Deadspin will likely have it up within 24 hours. But some of the classic lines were as follows:

-He called Notre Dame a relevant football team. (This is not 1993)

-He said that if there was a playoff, the debate for who would be the unlucky team out would shift from 2/3, to 4/5 or 8/9 and thus it's not even worth it.

-He claimed that some of the 'Bama coaches claimed, that due to the injuries to players during the game the week before that they would not have been up to full speed for a game after. Thus he claimed the championship would not truly be on the field, but in the training room



Good.

Depth will matter. Just like in FREAKING CONFERENCE PLAY.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby jb » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:14 pm

leadpipe wrote:It's not the total amount of money - it's the greasy hands that would be empty minus the current system.

Think modern politics.


+ sideways 8

However, the presidents need to shut down the greasy hands.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby Triple-S » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:50 pm

jb wrote:Good.

Depth will matter. Just like in FREAKING CONFERENCE PLAY.


Exactly.

Purdue in 2009 had to resort to playing a f--king Wide receiver at running back. I don't see High School teams complaining about such a problem, nor do I see the lower divisions complaining.

Here's the problem. You don't have FOOTBALL PEOPLE running things, you don't even have the AD's in the running. You got guys in suits who are in it for the cash. GORDON GEE, BILL HANCOCK, ETC SHOULD HAVE NEXT TO ZERO SAY ON THE RULES AND REGULATIONS OF COLLEGE FOOTBALL. NONE.

and the 4/5 arugment? please. "Hey the 2007 Browns were one game away from making the playoffs and a bid at the Super Bowl (unlikely), they didn't make it, thus we shouldn't have the NFL playoffs".
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby pup » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:36 am

jb wrote:
pup wrote:Here is what a playoff kills.

Money. Yes, the NC game would be epic.

But that round of 8? That is 4 bowl games being replaced. You think tOSU fans are traveling to see that round? And then the Football 4 round? Nobody is traveling to that, because they are anticipating the Finals. So 2 more bowl games that lose $.


So you are losing 6 bowl games worth of money to some stadium and sponsors. To jam pack a stadium for a game that is already jam packed.



So play them at the home seed stadium and the joint sells out.

Duh.


Sure. They are going to put a system in place that requires anyone from the South/West to travel to play a playoff game in Columbus/Ann Arbor/Madison. Keep waiting for that to happen.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:28 am

pup wrote:
jb wrote:
pup wrote:Here is what a playoff kills.

Money. Yes, the NC game would be epic.

But that round of 8? That is 4 bowl games being replaced. You think tOSU fans are traveling to see that round? And then the Football 4 round? Nobody is traveling to that, because they are anticipating the Finals. So 2 more bowl games that lose $.


So you are losing 6 bowl games worth of money to some stadium and sponsors. To jam pack a stadium for a game that is already jam packed.



So play them at the home seed stadium and the joint sells out.

Duh.


Sure. They are going to put a system in place that requires anyone from the South/West to travel to play a playoff game in Columbus/Ann Arbor/Madison. Keep waiting for that to happen.


If it's all about the money (and it always is) I'm not sure I understand why they wouldn't.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:30 am

motherscratcher wrote:
pup wrote:
jb wrote:
pup wrote:Here is what a playoff kills.

Money. Yes, the NC game would be epic.

But that round of 8? That is 4 bowl games being replaced. You think tOSU fans are traveling to see that round? And then the Football 4 round? Nobody is traveling to that, because they are anticipating the Finals. So 2 more bowl games that lose $.


So you are losing 6 bowl games worth of money to some stadium and sponsors. To jam pack a stadium for a game that is already jam packed.



So play them at the home seed stadium and the joint sells out.

Duh.


Sure. They are going to put a system in place that requires anyone from the South/West to travel to play a playoff game in Columbus/Ann Arbor/Madison. Keep waiting for that to happen.


If it's all about the money (and it always is) I'm not sure I understand why they wouldn't.


Exactly. If the dollars are there they will follow.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:47 am

Your best bet for change is that the BCS corruption finally boils over. That's it. Otherwise there's too much cake being made to incite change.

This ESPN article ( http://espn.go.com/college-football/sto ... n-magazine )talks about the attorneys dedicated to making the BCS really uncomfortable and it'll take a colossal scandal (IRS or otherwise) to move the money to another source.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby pup » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:11 am

JCoz wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:
pup wrote:
jb wrote:
pup wrote:Here is what a playoff kills.

Money. Yes, the NC game would be epic.

But that round of 8? That is 4 bowl games being replaced. You think tOSU fans are traveling to see that round? And then the Football 4 round? Nobody is traveling to that, because they are anticipating the Finals. So 2 more bowl games that lose $.


So you are losing 6 bowl games worth of money to some stadium and sponsors. To jam pack a stadium for a game that is already jam packed.



So play them at the home seed stadium and the joint sells out.

Duh.


Sure. They are going to put a system in place that requires anyone from the South/West to travel to play a playoff game in Columbus/Ann Arbor/Madison. Keep waiting for that to happen.


If it's all about the money (and it always is) I'm not sure I understand why they wouldn't.


Exactly. If the dollars are there they will follow.


Because they don't have to. They believe the system as it exists today makes more money through bowl games than it would without.

A playoff is either costing them money (boosters not traveling multiple times) or forcing them to do something they have absolutely no interest in doing (making their sugar babies travel to shitty climates) to make up for the boosters not traveling multiple times. And sure, the game will sell out in C-Bus. But not with the boosters that live anywhere else but C-Bus. Those are the people they want at these games, but a bunch of toms, dicks or harrys. And even the local crew, after the first few years of how cool a playoff is will stop attending first round games choosing to spend their cabbage by going to Phoenix for the semis. Or Pasadena for the Title.

You put the first round of games at home sites. What happens to the Sugar Bowl? Fiesta? Rose? Orange? Somebody is losing a game. A bowl committee is losing a game and a lot of money. That is not going to happen.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:27 am

Where one party loses another gains.

Unless the money itself dissappears, there are plenty of options.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby pup » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:49 am

JCoz wrote:Where one party loses another gains.

Unless the money itself dissappears, there are plenty of options.


I think it is pretty fair to say, obviously not. Or they would not continue to go forward with what 90% of informed people think is terrible.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:54 am

pup wrote:
JCoz wrote:Where one party loses another gains.

Unless the money itself dissappears, there are plenty of options.


I think it is pretty fair to say, obviously not. Or they would not continue to go forward with what 90% of informed people think is terrible.


Apparently you've never heard of Jim Delany?
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby pup » Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:00 pm

JCoz wrote:
pup wrote:
JCoz wrote:Where one party loses another gains.

Unless the money itself dissappears, there are plenty of options.


I think it is pretty fair to say, obviously not. Or they would not continue to go forward with what 90% of informed people think is terrible.


Apparently you've never heard of Jim Delany?


In what regard?
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:04 pm

Meaning that just because no other options have been taken, does not mean said options do not exist.

The right hands have yet to be greased, nothing more nothing less.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby Triple-S » Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:35 pm

Deadspin finally posted it:


We are not talking about wear and tear on the body. I'm not buying that. If I had all the NCAA commissioners in the room with truth serum I doubt this has anything to do with kids going to class?
"I don't think you heard what I said before. We think about the effect of this on the student athlete. It affects the student athletes in many ways. One is whole other series of football games. Another is conflicts with final exams. There's no conflict with basketball and final exams, but there would be with a big December tournament."


http://deadspin.com/5876034/bcs-head-sa ... miss-exams

I had a rant here, but I got rid of it. needless to say. I'm tired of this. Just say it's about the money and get on with it.

Don't toss out these stupid little arguments.

You want to show how you "care" about the student-athelete? get rid of this system and get rid of the ncaa itself.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:56 pm

Posnanski weighs in. Thinks a playoff is imminent.

http://joeposnanski.blogspot.com/2012/01/playoff-is-coming.html
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:56 pm

Well if Joe says so I'm sold.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby furls » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:19 am

JCoz wrote:Where one party loses another gains.

Unless the money itself dissappears, there are plenty of options.


The money actually does disappear because the bowls are about travel money too. It is about bringing some cash into the cities and the other BS that goes with the bowls. There are guys that make a NICE living running bowls, and not just the BCS variety. Bowl games are an industry in and of themselves.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby JCoz » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:31 am

furls wrote:
JCoz wrote:Where one party loses another gains.

Unless the money itself dissappears, there are plenty of options.


The money actually does disappear because the bowls are about travel money too. It is about bringing some cash into the cities and the other BS that goes with the bowls. There are guys that make a NICE living running bowls, and not just the BCS variety. Bowl games are an industry in and of themselves.


The money would not disappear, because that game would get played in another setting.

How would the money disappear if the game does not? You are replacing a game here with a game there. I dont think we are talking about the same things.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby jb » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:11 pm

The money would increase.

Who gets the money changes drastically . And that's what this is all about Deep throat was right. Follow the money.
Last edited by jb on Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby JCoz » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:34 pm

jb wrote:The money would increase.

Who gets the obey changes drastically . And that's what this is all about Deep throat was right. Follow the money.


Exactly what I'm saying...The current proposals simply dont have the "right" recipients of said cash.

Yet.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby furls » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:41 pm

JCoz wrote:
furls wrote:
JCoz wrote:Where one party loses another gains.

Unless the money itself dissappears, there are plenty of options.


The money actually does disappear because the bowls are about travel money too. It is about bringing some cash into the cities and the other BS that goes with the bowls. There are guys that make a NICE living running bowls, and not just the BCS variety. Bowl games are an industry in and of themselves.


The money would not disappear, because that game would get played in another setting.

How would the money disappear if the game does not? You are replacing a game here with a game there. I dont think we are talking about the same things.


The money disappears because when you move the games to home team locations, you get home crowds, therefore all the travel/tourism money goes away. You don't get the same hotel, airline and dining bump etc.

Bowls are much more than just the gate/concessions and game related revenues.
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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby furls » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:45 pm

furls wrote:
JCoz wrote:
furls wrote:
JCoz wrote:Where one party loses another gains.

Unless the money itself dissappears, there are plenty of options.


The money actually does disappear because the bowls are about travel money too. It is about bringing some cash into the cities and the other BS that goes with the bowls. There are guys that make a NICE living running bowls, and not just the BCS variety. Bowl games are an industry in and of themselves.


The money would not disappear, because that game would get played in another setting.

How would the money disappear if the game does not? You are replacing a game here with a game there. I dont think we are talking about the same things.


Gotta believe TV revenues would jump, but how do you split that up and if you do, who benefits from it. Do you switch to a format where TV revenues are split over 117 teams? That seems a bit convoluted. Who gets the gate from home playoff games?

I really don't care, I would rather see a playoff, but these are hard questions to answer. Do you split Gate revenue between the two teams? If you do then you could give a team 3 additional home games. At tOSU that equates to about 20-30MM more revenue (split in half yields 10-15MM). Do you split that somehow with the leagues?

Again, I have no dog in the fight. I don't get paid by a bowl committee, I would love to see a playoff, but I also realize that there is a lot more at stake than just gate revenue.
The money disappears because when you move the games to home team locations, you get home crowds, therefore all the travel/tourism money goes away. You don't get the same hotel, airline and dining bump etc.

Bowls are much more than just the gate/concessions and game related revenues.
Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

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Re: 'Bama Vs. LSU II

Unread postby JCoz » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:44 am

furls wrote:Bowls are much more than just the gate/concessions and game related revenues.


Only in a playoff model with home games.

Realistically, we are going to get a +1. Other discussion is pure fantasy. No home games in a plus one.

But even in a home game scenario, those local dollars are small compared to the increase in TV revenue I can imagine for an actual playoff game vs meaningless post season exhibition.
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