Cleveland Browns & The NFL

by **Fire Marshall Bill** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:05 pm

Let the drama begin....

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... nfl-draft/

by **Triple-S** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:17 pm

Alright

I don't care what you have to do.

You get him or Luck.

That is the entire goal of this offseason.

Everything else is bonus.

No "Backups" who might be good.

No Veteran FA's on their last standing legs

No QB's in the 2nd thru 7th round and praying they end up Montana/Brady II.

This is it. You settle this quandry for the first time since 89, or you stay irrelevant. Your Choice.

by **Orenthal** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:36 pm

First time since 1999.

by **Triple-S** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:58 pm

Orenthal wrote:First time since 1999.

my bad on that.

though to be fair, looking at the list of Browns QB's post-Kosar...ouch. It's what I was kind of implying.

by **Orenthal** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:18 pm

I understand what you were gettin at, but RG3 hasn't done shit on this level so very well may end up like 1999 or worse then vet/2-7 guy.

While I prefer RG3 as an investment in the most important position on an NFL roster I don't want to see more valuable assets (picks to move up) exchanged for a question mark. BPA or opportunistic trade. Let some other team overpay, while protecting and using "all" your assets.

by **Rat_Tail** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:19 pm

Questionable move for a guy who knows he's going to either the Browns or Skins. RG3 kinda reminds me of Quincy Carter or what he could've been. And no that's not a diss.

by **LakeErieWarriors** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:35 pm

Rat_Tail wrote:Questionable move for a guy who knows he's going to either the Browns or Skins. RG3 kinda reminds me of Quincy Carter or what he could've been. And no that's not a diss.

Apparently he didn't feel like waiting around for the Pats/Steelers/Packers/Saints/etc. to get a first overall. What would you advise him to do next year when similar teams are up top? P.S. Quincy Carter would even laugh at that comparison.

by **SoulDawg74** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:15 pm

Rat_Tail wrote:Questionable move for a guy who knows he's going to either the Browns or Skins. RG3 kinda reminds me of Quincy Carter or what he could've been. And no that's not a diss.

SD:

The move you have to question is Barkleys punk ass going back to school afraid he come in third between Luck and RG3 in the QB race .

The only question on R3 is where your brain is at comparing him to Quincy Carter , who didn't have enough brain power to move his fingers and toes and still be able to speak.

SoulDawg

by **Fire Marshall Bill** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:24 pm

LMFAO

Quincy "Master of the 20 yd Loss" Carter aka Erratic Slug....

Anyways, I'm thinking of opening up a book to take 'RG to the Browns' bets...

My opening line is

+ 500

by **LakeErieWarriors** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:48 pm

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Just don't think the Browns have a choice here, for the sake of all that is holy, they gotta make big moves, and they gotta make them now. The more I think about it, the more indifferent towards which QB (Luck or RGIII) that I would rather have. Therefore, I think they should pick up whichever QB (probably RGIII) that costs the least. If they don't come through on all fronts this draft (QB, WR, OL, LB), I see a lot of empty seats by home game #4.

by **Rat_Tail** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:03 pm

Similar size and playing styles.

Quincy could've brokeout in '04 if he stayed away from cocaine. Even after the Jets gave him a second chance he still went back to it. RG3 is more mentally sound.

LakeErieWarriors wrote:Desperate times call for desperate measures. Just don't think the Browns have a choice here, for the sake of all that is holy, they gotta make big moves, and they gotta make them now.

Browns fans already have their hearts set on RG3. Anything but him at #2 or #4 is going to piss the majority of the fan base off. Don't really see what Holmgren/Heckert have to lose.

by **LakeErieWarriors** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:17 pm

Similar size and playing styles.

Quincy could've brokeout in '04 if he stayed away from cocaine. Even after the Jets gave him a second chance he still went back to it. RG3 is more mentally sound.

Len Bias could've had a breakout year in '86 if he stayed away from the booger sugar too; but he didn't.

by **pup** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:39 pm

Christ. Quincy Flippin Carter?

Paging e0y...

by **e0y2e3** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:04 am

Even I don't have dealing with this one in me.

I'm just unable to muster anything more than a sad shaking head and the knowledge that every-time I call Rat Fuck a racist for the rest of eternity I'll be right.

by **pup** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:31 am

^^^^^^^^^ Boooooo

He said Quincy Carter. Compared Robert Griffin III to Quincy Carter. A guy who completed about 55% of his collegiate passes with almost 1:1 TD:INT. Who couldn't spell political science major if you spotted him political science maj. Who still may not have graduated high school, let alone graduate high school and college early. That is the guy who reminds this clueless tard of RGIII.

by **e0y2e3** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:00 am

To be fair to myself, how does Rat's post here surprise anyone? He exposed himself as a racist ranting about black QBs, did anyone actually think he was going to mature at some point?

by **Hikohadon** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:41 am

LakeErieWarriors wrote:
Rat_Tail wrote:Questionable move for a guy who knows he's going to either the Browns or Skins. RG3 kinda reminds me of Quincy Carter or what he could've been. And no that's not a diss.

Apparently he didn't feel like waiting around for the Pats/Steelers/Packers/Saints/etc. to get a first overall. What would you advise him to do next year when similar teams are up top? P.S. Quincy Carter would even laugh at that comparison.

+2.

Dumb take, Rat. Most good teams already have a QB anyway. Even some bad teams - like Dallas - have decent QB's.

by **motherscratcher** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:20 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
LakeErieWarriors wrote:
Rat_Tail wrote:Questionable move for a guy who knows he's going to either the Browns or Skins. RG3 kinda reminds me of Quincy Carter or what he could've been. And no that's not a diss.

Apparently he didn't feel like waiting around for the Pats/Steelers/Packers/Saints/etc. to get a first overall. What would you advise him to do next year when similar teams are up top? P.S. Quincy Carter would even laugh at that comparison.

+2.

Dumb take, Rat. Most good teams already have a QB anyway. Even some bad teams - like Dallas - have decent QB's.

Agree. And I'd like to point out how awesome it is that the Quincy Carter comp was the most reasonable and well thought out part of that post.

by **Rat_Tail** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:10 pm

Coming from the same guys who hailed McCoy as "the real deal" I'm just going to laugh. I'm sure all you thought Luck would be packing his bags for Indy too.

by **Hikohadon** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:16 pm

Rat_Tail wrote:Coming from the same guys who hailed McCoy as "the real deal" I'm just going to laugh. I'm sure all you thought Luck would be packing his bags for Indy too.

These are really solid points.

::doh::

by **peeker643** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:21 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
Rat_Tail wrote:Coming from the same guys who hailed McCoy as "the real deal" I'm just going to laugh. I'm sure all you thought Luck would be packing his bags for Indy too.

These are really solid points.

Yeah... with as little as he brings to the table and as infrequently as he posts, I'm not sure why we shouldn't exterminate rat_tail.

There's no entertainment value, no shock value, no educational value, there's no.... value.

Then add to that his paper-thin veiling of the race issue and.... Jesus.

by **pup** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:56 pm

Rat_Tail wrote:Coming from the same guys who hailed McCoy as "the real deal" I'm just going to laugh. I'm sure all you thought Luck would be packing his bags for Indy too.

How bout them Cowboys.

Of all the people to be run from this place, you will be, by far, the most pointless and least remembered. So you got that going for you.

Chin up buttercup. There is always Tony Romo highlights to fall back on. Like remember the time he dropped that snap to cost you going to the playoffs? That one was excellent.

by **Larvell Blanks** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:41 pm

Rat is sitting back in his Landry Fedora, chewing on some Garrison Skoal, watching highlights from the championship years when D. Thomas didn't talk to the media, Doomsday was the NFC equivalent to the Curtain, Pearson and Hill were stretching secondaries, and Dorsett was running as wild as he could w/ conservative Landry.

Wait, what, he don't know any Cowboy player from before the Aikman/Smith Irvin era?

at least he knows QB's ::doh::

by **Triple-S** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:02 pm

Larvell Blanks wrote:Rat is sitting back in his Landry Fedora, chewing on some Garrison Skoal, watching highlights from the championship years when D. Thomas didn't talk to the media, Doomsday was the NFC equivalent to the Curtain, Pearson and Hill were stretching secondaries, and Dorsett was running as wild as he could w/ conservative Landry.

Wait, what, he don't know any Cowboy player from before the Aikman/Smith Irvin era?

at least he knows QB's

IMO, Super XIII was the best nfl films ever made.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRA8nKxxBcY

The intro of it reminds me of some really bad 70's made for tv movie about stopping a terrorist attack for at the Super Bowl.

....I'm a sucker for old nfl films highlights. sue me.

by **CleSportsTruth** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:32 pm

I think we in Browns Nation need to be realistic. RGIII is not coming here, period. I think Mike and Tom see a guy like him (and Cam Newton and even Jesus Tebow) and chuckle to themselves. They don't see guys like that as "NFL quarterbacks" in the long-run b/c, to their thinking, you cannot adjust a system to a player (not radically, anyhow).

We're going to drive ourselves nuts over a fantasy that isn't happening. Time to move on.

by **LakeErieWarriors** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:43 pm

CleSportsTruth wrote:I think we in Browns Nation need to be realistic. RGIII is not coming here, period. I think Mike and Tom see a guy like him (and Cam Newton and even Jesus Tebow) and chuckle to themselves. They don't see guys like that as "NFL quarterbacks" in the long-run b/c, to their thinking, you cannot adjust a system to a player (not radically, anyhow).

We're going to drive ourselves nuts over a fantasy that isn't happening. Time to move on.

The Cam / Tebow comparison just doesn't hold water in my eyes at all. RGIII has everything those 2 have + the things they don't (i.e. in the case of Tebow, accuracy; throwing ability). He is also much faster. Downside: more prone to injury but not a huge risk. IMO, Walrus and Heckert see more in RGIII than you think they do.

by **motherscratcher** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:48 pm

I can only speak for me, but I'm not going to pretend to have the first damn clue what Holmgren and Heckert think about RG3.

by **Gradysmanldy** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:52 am

MS with the dagger, here. With limited time and exposure, we cant definitively say, "this is H+H type of guy" so we get to twiddle our thumbs and guess.

Im looking forward to the combines to see who this years Raplesburger and Flacco are. Small school guys who we may not have heard about that have the package.

by **Fire Marshall Bill** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:45 am

motherscratcher wrote:I can only speak for me, but I'm not going to pretend to have the first damn clue what Holmgren and Heckert think about RG3.

This must be why I can't get anyone to take my 5-1 odds ^^^^^^^

by **mattvan1** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:59 am

CleSportsTruth wrote:I think we in Browns Nation need to be realistic. RGIII is not coming here, period. I think Mike and Tom see a guy like him (and Cam Newton and even Jesus Tebow) and chuckle to themselves. They don't see guys like that as "NFL quarterbacks" in the long-run b/c, to their thinking, you cannot adjust a system to a player (not radically, anyhow).

We're going to drive ourselves nuts over a fantasy that isn't happening. Time to move on.

Great advice, and unfortunately I fear you are correct, albeit for different reasons. My fear is not that H&H look at RGIII and say "Doesn't fit the system" but rather "too much risk at #4 overall when we can draft a less talented guy in round 2 who can operate in our system because our system is so superior it does not take an elite QB to be successful in it."

by **e0y2e3** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:11 pm

Michael Vick, who is a far worse system fit than RGIII, is playing in a Walrus hand-me-down West Coast Offense.

The only systematic reason I could see them passing is what matt points out, the belief that they can find their own AJ Feeley or Kevin Kolb.

by **e0y2e3** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:14 pm

Also, D-Mac and Bradford were drafted highly for WCO's.

BUT HEY, WHO NEEDS HISTORIC DATA!

HE'S BLACK THEREFOR HE, LIKE CAM AND VICK, CANNOT PLAY IN A WCO

by **Hikohadon** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:27 pm

CleSportsTruth wrote:I think we in Browns Nation need to be realistic. RGIII is not coming here, period. I think Mike and Tom see a guy like him (and Cam Newton and even Jesus Tebow) and chuckle to themselves. They don't see guys like that as "NFL quarterbacks" in the long-run b/c, to their thinking, you cannot adjust a system to a player (not radically, anyhow).

We're going to drive ourselves nuts over a fantasy that isn't happening. Time to move on.

We don't know any such thing.

by **Triple-S** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:29 pm

We have no f--king clue what Heckert is going to do.

remember when Holmgren came out before the draft last year and claimed we were drafting "home run" hitters for the offense.

How'd that turn out?

I have faith that Heckert will pull the trigger and hopefully realize that a guy like RGIII is an immediate upgrade, and puts us on the right path.

by **CleSportsTruth** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:34 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Michael Vick, who is a far worse system fit than RGIII, is playing in a Walrus hand-me-down West Coast Offense.

The only systematic reason I could see them passing is what matt points out, the belief that they can find their own AJ Feeley or Kevin Kolb.

See, I think (and yes, mea culpa, we don't know what H+H think) Mike in particular sees Mike Vick and asks, "How many titles has he won again? Oh yeah, none."

Yes, people point to McNabb, but for the most part, he adapted to the WCO. Yes, they used his mobility, but ala Steve Young, always within the perameters of the WCO. My hunch is they think it would take too much to adapt RGIII to it.

by **e0y2e3** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:44 pm

I love the title argument around Vick, a guy who spent his prime thus far in jail and since (also during his first run with a real coach) has had one amazing season and a meh season where his #1 WR has admitted to quitting and his D blew ass.

Fucking christ, stop talking about how many titles "Vick" has won people. It's a ridiculously stupid argument.

by **e0y2e3** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:46 pm

BTW: RGIII SPENT MOST OF FUCKING TIME THROWING FROM THE POCKET AND IS GOING TO BE EASIER TO ADAPT THAN MCNABB EVEN WAS, JUST BECAUSE HE IS BLACK DOESN'T MEAN HE IS FUCKING MICHAEL VICK, CAM, OR QUINCY CARTER DUMBASS FUCKING FUCKS.

by **pup** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:52 pm

But he doesn't take snaps from center. How do we know if he can?

:lmfao:

by **e0y2e3** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:53 pm

I just can't do it anymore. Every day it's someone else......

I... just...

fuck me.

by **Fire Marshall Bill** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:54 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:BTW: RGIII SPENT MOST OF FUCKING TIME THROWING FROM THE POCKET AND IS GOING TO BE EASIER TO ADAPT THAN MCNABB EVEN WAS, JUST BECAUSE HE IS BLACK DOESN'T MEAN HE IS FUCKING MICHAEL VICK, CAM, OR QUINCY CARTER DUMBASS FUCKING FUCKS.

Well, to be fair to Vick and Cam, Cater only ran in circles...usually 20 yds behind the LOS

I'd compare RG to Randall before Vick or Newton albiet Randall was taller...

by **CleSportsTruth** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:06 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:I love the title argument around Vick, a guy who spent his prime thus far in jail and since (also during his first run with a real coach) has had one amazing season and a meh season where his #1 WR has admitted to quitting and his D blew ass.

Fucking christ, stop talking about how many titles "Vick" has won people. It's a ridiculously stupid argument.

To be clear, I'm not positively making this argument. I WANT RGIII over anyone elae at #4. I'm just trying to get into the heads of H+H and their thinking. That doesn't mean I agree with them. I don't.

by **Ziner** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:06 pm

I think he comps well to Leftwich

by **e0y2e3** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:16 pm

^ lulz

by **JCoz** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:31 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:BTW: RGIII SPENT MOST OF FUCKING TIME THROWING FROM THE POCKET AND IS GOING TO BE EASIER TO ADAPT THAN MCNABB EVEN WAS, JUST BECAUSE HE IS BLACK DOESN'T MEAN HE IS FUCKING MICHAEL VICK, CAM, OR QUINCY CARTER DUMBASS FUCKING FUCKS.

Goddamn fucking fucktard pieces of shit.

by **Gradysmanldy** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:41 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:I just can't do it anymore. Every day it's someone else......

I... just...

fuck me.

This reminds me of the Louis CK skit where he's describing a 3 year old repeatedly asking "But why?" to every question until his mother is like "JUST EAT YOUR FUCKING FRENCH FRIES"

by **Gradysmanldy** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:50 pm

Seriously, I don't understand why Colt Mccoy, a qb that spend most of his time in a spread offense, is a guy that they are willing to give the keys to the kingdom to, and RGIII is not.

FOR FUCK SAKE:

Colt Mccoy Rushing attempts his last 2 years:
136 for 561
129 for 348

RGIII his last 2 years:
179 for 699 yds
149 for 635 yds

And one of Colts greatest STRENGTHS coming out of college was his accuracy and mobility. So, somehow, somefuckingway, H+H are not interested in RGIII because (a) he ran the ball 20-40 times more a SEASON than a guy they DID draft, or because b) he's MORE accurate than the guy they DID draft or c) because he's actually capable of doing the one thing that the guy they DID draft couldn't, throw the ball deep?

If you want to argue that they wont draft him because they feel they can find "their" guy in a later round or FA or hiding in the CFL, i'll buy that, hook line and sinker. They've got a track record for it.

Saying they wont draft him because he's not "their type of qb" is going to make me go insane.

by **Hikohadon** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:55 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:Seriously, I don't understand why Colt Mccoy, a qb that spend most of his time in a spread offense,

FOR FUCK SAKE:

Colt Mccoy Rushing attempts his last 2 years:
136 for 561
129 for 348

RGIII his last 2 years:
179 for 699 yds
149 for 635 yds

And one of Colts greatest STRENGTHS coming out of college was his accuracy and mobility. So, somehow, somefuckingway, H+H are not interested in RGIII because (a) he ran the ball 20-40 times more a SEASON than a guy they DID draft, or because b) he's MORE accurate than the guy they DID draft or c) because he's actually capable of doing the one thing that the guy they DID draft couldn't, throw the ball deep?

If you want to argue that they wont draft him because they feel they can find "their" guy in a later round or FA or hiding in the CFL, i'll buy that, hook line and sinker. They've got a track record for it.

Saying they wont draft him because he's not "their type of qb" is going to make me go insane.

by **pup** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:30 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
Gradysmanldy wrote:Seriously, I don't understand why Colt Mccoy, a qb that spend most of his time in a spread offense,

FOR FUCK SAKE:

Colt Mccoy Rushing attempts his last 2 years:
136 for 561
129 for 348

RGIII his last 2 years:
179 for 699 yds
149 for 635 yds

And one of Colts greatest STRENGTHS coming out of college was his accuracy and mobility. So, somehow, somefuckingway, H+H are not interested in RGIII because (a) he ran the ball 20-40 times more a SEASON than a guy they DID draft, or because b) he's MORE accurate than the guy they DID draft or c) because he's actually capable of doing the one thing that the guy they DID draft couldn't, throw the ball deep?

If you want to argue that they wont draft him because they feel they can find "their" guy in a later round or FA or hiding in the CFL, i'll buy that, hook line and sinker. They've got a track record for it.

Saying they wont draft him because he's not "their type of qb" is going to make me go insane.

by **e0y2e3** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:41 pm

I applaud your effort Grady, but it doesn't matter.

Hiko broke down pocket attempts earlier this year, like twice.

People have plead with morons to watch RGIII play, they waited until the bowl game.

People have explained his closest stylistic comp being Young, no one cares.

Instead we get a new fucking fuck here every third day dropping comps to Vick and Cam.

It's just effing sad at this point.

by **Ziner** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:50 pm

Vince Young is much taller and not nearly as well spoken, bad comp.

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