Holmgren Speaks, Kinda

[swerb]

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.s ... en_12.html

[Hikohadon]

I listened to it earlier, and I think it really gave me a sense of peace. Probably because it made my eyes heavy and caused me to fall into a nice slumber where I dreamed of Asian women carrying steaks.

I think I'll listen to it again tonight if I'm having trouble sleeping.

[swerb]

He said "stay the course" so many times I was waiting for him to bust out the "thousand points of light" line the first Bush kept using in his failed re-election campaign against Bubba Clinton.

[HoodooMan]

Heckert is asked about a QB in free agency?

"That's probably not the way we'll go about it. You never know. There are a few guys in the league who have started and will be free agents. We're going to look at them. We'll evaluate all of them."

Sounds like no Flynn.

[swerb]

Heckert is asked about a QB in free agency?

"That's probably not the way we'll go about it. You never know. There are a few guys in the league who have started and will be free agents. We're going to look at them. We'll evaluate all of them."

Sounds like no Flynn.

Yeah, the impression I strongly got, was no Flynn. And that they'll very seriously consider QB at #4, but seemed unlikely they'd trade up to get one if needbe.

[JCoz]

On McCoy's future: Holmgren says "he can be (the guy), but I'm not ready to say that yet. He played young at times. Was I pleased? Yeah, at a lot of the stuff he did. My opinion of Colt has not changed. He has a lot of the intangibles. Ultimately though the quarterback is judged on how well your team did. I'm not ready to anoint Colt yet. Do I love him? Yes I do. We have three good quarterbacks on our team now."

Translation: Not done with McCoy

"It's hard to judge this season because our offense just wasn't good enough. The quarterback's a big piece of it, but, shoot, you've got to throw it to somebody, they have to block. The quarterback is only part of it."

Translation: Not done with McCoy

"We'll probably bring in a new quarterback every year. This year will be no different."

Translation: Not done with McCoy; will draft late round bum, no RG3, no Luck trade.

Holmgren, on free agency: "We have a philosophy of how to build the team. Our record was poor. So the natural reaction is go crazy and spend millions of dollars. If that was the right thing to do in our opinion, we will do that. But that's not our philosophy for how to build this for the long term. You see teams do that every year. Does it guarantee anything? Absolutely not. So how do you build the team?

"I've got a lot of faith in (Heckert). He's good at what he does. We have a good coach and a good coaching staff and good young players. We are not opposed to doing anything, but we are going to stay the course."

Translation: Free agency will be about as frustrating for fans as last season.

How far away from winning Super Bowl?

Holmgren: "It's like trying to find a ceiling of a player, how good can a player be? In Green Bay it took us five years, but we found the quarterback in the first yeear. In Seattle, we were in the Super Bowl in seven years and didn't find the quarterback until Year 3."

Translation:Takes 4-5 Years after finding the QB to win a SB; clock hasn't started yet.

About combining picks to trade up for "the guy," Holmgren says philosophically "we'd like to use our picks," but that would not prevent them "from wheeling and dealing in the draft. But we need the picks to fill in our roster."

Heckert says, "That's the reason we made the trade (last year) -- to get players. We'd like to add nine good football players and hopefully more if we get some compensatory picks."

Translation: We're more likely to trade down that up.

[Gradysmanldy]

Mostly just mumbling the same rote, but there's nothing there i'd disagree with. I'd LIKE for them to use all the picks they have, too. I'd just like for one of them to be to upgrade the QB situation with THE guy. (And btw, Mike, the QB you got in year 3 wouldn't get you a ring these days)

[Hikohadon]

Heckert is asked about a QB in free agency?

"That's probably not the way we'll go about it. You never know. There are a few guys in the league who have started and will be free agents. We're going to look at them. We'll evaluate all of them."

Sounds like no Flynn.

Good. I have serious doubts he's a long-term answer.

[swerb]

Shurmur is smart! I knew his uncle, trust me! We need no infidel free agents! We coulda been 8-8 this year!

[Hikohadon]

I agree for the most part on their stance RE: Free Agents.

They're Free Agents for a reason.

They are nice to supplement your roster depth, though. Last year was way too little action on the FA front. Hopefully we can chalk that up to the week-long offseason.

[peeker643]

I don't recall what our other bet was for jcoz (aside from the stakes) , but I'm betting 2bl or nothing that they're done with McCoy. As in, doesn't see another starting snap done.

[Hikohadon]

I don't recall what our other bet was for jcoz (aside from the stakes) , but I'm betting 2bl or nothing that they're done with McCoy. As in, doesn't see another starting snap done.

Agree. As in Holmgren's responses about Colt are just like what he said about Quinn before shipping him out of town. McCoy will be someone else's backup next year.

[swerb]

I don't recall what our other bet was for jcoz (aside from the stakes) , but I'm betting 2bl or nothing that they're done with McCoy. As in, doesn't see another starting snap done.

Agree. As in Holmgren's responses about Colt are just like what he said about Quinn before shipping him out of town. McCoy will be someone else's backup next year.

Agreed. What does he yield in a trade? Not the 3rd rounder we used on him I don't think. A 5th? 6th?

[JCoz]

I don't recall what our other bet was for jcoz (aside from the stakes) , but I'm betting 2bl or nothing that they're done with McCoy. As in, doesn't see another starting snap done.

No thanks, I'm just saying what I see in those quotes. Disregarding that quote you've got plenty of logic backing you up on Colt being gone. For me the waters on that start to get awful murky if they don't grab Flynn via trade or Draft a 1st or 2nd round quarterback.

I'd be very interested in seeing quotes like that out of Holmgren regarding Quinn if they exist.

[JCoz]

I don't recall what our other bet was for jcoz (aside from the stakes) , but I'm betting 2bl or nothing that they're done with McCoy. As in, doesn't see another starting snap done.

Agree. As in Holmgren's responses about Colt are just like what he said about Quinn before shipping him out of town. McCoy will be someone else's backup next year.

Agreed. What does he yield in a trade? Not the 3rd rounder we used on him I don't think. A 5th? 6th?

Quinn drew a player and a couple 6ths, so that offers at least a baseline for that question IYAM.

[jb]

Paraphrased: I'll do what I want, when I want, how I want, if it is even me doing it, AND YOU'LL LIKE IT!

Cause ur a bunch of addicts.

Now hush and be patient.

[jb]

I don't recall what our other bet was for jcoz (aside from the stakes) , but I'm betting 2bl or nothing that they're done with McCoy. As in, doesn't see another starting snap done.

Agree. As in Holmgren's responses about Colt are just like what he said about Quinn before shipping him out of town. McCoy will be someone else's backup next year.

Agreed. What does he yield in a trade? Not the 3rd rounder we used on him I don't think. A 5th? 6th?

Is Jerruh involved?

[JCoz]

I don't recall what our other bet was for jcoz (aside from the stakes) , but I'm betting 2bl or nothing that they're done with McCoy. As in, doesn't see another starting snap done.

No thanks, I'm just saying what I see in those quotes. Disregarding that quote you've got plenty of logic backing you up on Colt being gone. For me the waters on that start to get awful murky if they don't grab Flynn via trade or Draft a 1st or 2nd round quarterback.

I'd be very interested in seeing quotes like that out of Holmgren regarding Quinn if they exist.

To clarify, what I mean is that I dont see them starting a 3rd rounder or below as a rookie, and I dont see them going into the season with the intention of starting someone they KNOW is a career backup in Wallace.

So if they dont get Flynn or draft a big time QB prospect, their only options are sticking with Colt, starting Wallace, or starting late round lottery ticket QB.

[Hikohadon]

Quinn drew a player and a couple 6ths, so that offers at least a baseline for that question IYAM.

That's about exactly what you could expect. As with Quinn, people have seen Colt play now and no one had their socks knocked off.

[Hikohadon]

Paraphrased: I'll do what I want, when I want, how I want, if it is even me doing it, AND YOU'LL LIKE IT!

Cause ur a bunch of addicts.

Now hush and be patient.

Troof.

[peeker643]

[Triple-S]

For those pining and thinking that we'll be able to go and get someone like a Dwayne Bowe in FA?

....it's not going to happen.

For one..Free Agents are not going to come to Berea to have their careers destroyed and to play with a team that's "Rebuilding" for the next year or so. This place is a hell hole at the moment.

I'll go with what Grandpa Simpson said in the Simpsons back when that show was actually funny:

Grampa: Oh, Son, don't overreach!
Go for the DENTED car,
the DEAD-END job,
the LESS ATTRACTIVE girl.

And that's going to be our Free Agency this season. Not the all-pros, "difference makers", but guys who can at least maybe plug a gaping hole or two.

Just got to hope that we can land a guy like RG3 or Luck, pray that they turn out to look like Cam Newton/Matt Ryan this season...and then, and ONLY THEN can we start talking up those awesome free agents that can be the major difference maker between "meh" and Playoff Contender.

[Hikohadon]

Again, All Pros don't make it to FA. The few really good FA's get massively overpaid, the rest are filler. It's a good tool, but vastly secondary to the draft when it comes to team building - in this much I agree with Heckgren.

[HoodooMan]

Except guards.

Couple really good ones in Nicks & Grubbs likely to be available this year, and it'd be really nice to sign one to replace Steinbach.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

What he said could just as easily mean RG3 and Kendall Wright in the 1st round so, don't ledge yet, eh?

I mean fukin-aye!

Aye?

[Triple-S]

Again, All Pros don't make it to FA. The few really good FA's get massively overpaid, the rest are filler. It's a good tool, but vastly secondary to the draft when it comes to team building - in this much I agree with Heckgren.

It's only really best used when you're on the verge of being a Super Bowl contender.

..and for the Browns to be even remotely considered that, they need a franchise QB.

That should be the entire goal this off-season. Get one or die trying. (and a RT tackle too...for the love of god).

[jb]

Except guards.

Couple really good ones in Nicks & Grubbs likely to be available this year, and it'd be really nice to sign one to replace Steinbach.

If the rats are retarded enough to let Grubbs walk for nada (and Ozzie isn't) and the Zombie Browns don't make him spit at Hutchinson's stack in contempt, I swear I will go Ashbey Leach, except this time I'd make it happen.

[HoodooMan]

Except guards.

Couple really good ones in Nicks & Grubbs likely to be available this year, and it'd be really nice to sign one to replace Steinbach.

If the rats are retarded enough to let Grubbs walk for nada (and Ozzie isn't) and the Zombie Browns don't make him spit at Hutchinson's stack in contempt, I swear I will go Ashley Leach, except this time I'd make it happen.

No one tags guards, because they're lumped in with OTs for the tag number. That's why the really good ones consistently hit the open market.

Ozzie's going to be busy with Ray Rice anyway.

[JCoz]

What he said could just as easily mean RG3 and Kendall Wright in the 1st round so, don't ledge yet, eh?

I mean fukin-aye!

Aye?

Yah I dont see that.

Whatever happens with Colt, one thing I'm definitley taking away from this is that based on today they wont be making a play for or drafting RG3/Luck.

I'll check in again with them after the combine. Hopefully I'm dead wrong in that.

[HoodooMan]

Heckert is asked about a QB in free agency?

"That's probably not the way we'll go about it. You never know. There are a few guys in the league who have started and will be free agents. We're going to look at them. We'll evaluate all of them."

Sounds like no Flynn.

Good. I have serious doubts he's a long-term answer.

Me too, but it'd be fun to hope for a steal.

[HoodooMan]

Heckert is asked about a QB in free agency?

"That's probably not the way we'll go about it. You never know. There are a few guys in the league who have started and will be free agents. We're going to look at them. We'll evaluate all of them."

Sounds like no Flynn.

Yeah, the impression I strongly got, was no Flynn. And that they'll very seriously consider QB at #4, but seemed unlikely they'd trade up to get one if needbe.

Well, maybe Washington goes after Flynn and a trade up isn't necessary.

:fingerscrossed

[JCoz]

More likely Manning I would imagine

[Hikohadon]

Heckert is asked about a QB in free agency?

"That's probably not the way we'll go about it. You never know. There are a few guys in the league who have started and will be free agents. We're going to look at them. We'll evaluate all of them."

Sounds like no Flynn.

Yeah, the impression I strongly got, was no Flynn. And that they'll very seriously consider QB at #4, but seemed unlikely they'd trade up to get one if needbe.

Well, maybe Washington goes after Flynn and a trade up isn't necessary.

:fingerscrossed

Somebody's gonna go after Flynn, especially if GB doesn't tag him.

Teams that need QB's:

Cleveland
Miami
Washington
Seattle
Indy (if Manning doesn't stay, and then it would be Luck)
Zona?
Denver? (I don't buy Elway bettin' the farm on Tebow)
Jets? (only if a home run like Manning is available)

[peeker643]

I don't recall what our other bet was for jcoz (aside from the stakes) , but I'm betting 2bl or nothing that they're done with McCoy. As in, doesn't see another starting snap done.

Agree. As in Holmgren's responses about Colt are just like what he said about Quinn before shipping him out of town. McCoy will be someone else's backup next year.

He's going to play this shitty hand and bluff at the pot until he can't go any further with it. Then he'll lay it down.

But yes, it'll be another 3rd round pick or higher that they turn into a 5th rounder or lower.

[Hikohadon]

I don't recall what our other bet was for jcoz (aside from the stakes) , but I'm betting 2bl or nothing that they're done with McCoy. As in, doesn't see another starting snap done.

Agree. As in Holmgren's responses about Colt are just like what he said about Quinn before shipping him out of town. McCoy will be someone else's backup next year.

He's going to play this shitty hand and bluff at the pot until he can't go any further with it. Then he'll lay it down.

But yes, it'll be another 3rd round pick or higher that they turn into a 5th rounder or lower.

Maybe that'll convince Holmgren to stay out of the draft room, since Colt is the only guy that was clearly "his" pick.

[SoulDawg74]

I don't recall what our other bet was for jcoz (aside from the stakes) , but I'm betting 2bl or nothing that they're done with McCoy. As in, doesn't see another starting snap done.

Agree. As in Holmgren's responses about Colt are just like what he said about Quinn before shipping him out of town. McCoy will be someone else's backup next year.

He's going to play this shitty hand and bluff at the pot until he can't go any further with it. Then he'll lay it down.

But yes, it'll be another 3rd round pick or higher that they turn into a 5th rounder or lower.

SD:

Doesn't do in January to speak on anybody .

He can't devalue that mutt with fleas signal caller he gifted a job like he was a franchise pick , nor can he start panting over Flynn without first dropping his pants and assumming the position bent over a rail sans vaseline , and if he comes out and says he's got the hots for RG3 before he's got a deal in place with the Lambs , I'll split that worthless fat fuck my damn self.


SoulDawg

[peeker643]

I don't recall what our other bet was for jcoz (aside from the stakes) , but I'm betting 2bl or nothing that they're done with McCoy. As in, doesn't see another starting snap done.

Agree. As in Holmgren's responses about Colt are just like what he said about Quinn before shipping him out of town. McCoy will be someone else's backup next year.

He's going to play this shitty hand and bluff at the pot until he can't go any further with it. Then he'll lay it down.

But yes, it'll be another 3rd round pick or higher that they turn into a 5th rounder or lower.

SD:

Doesn't do in January to speak on anybody .

He can't devalue that mutt with fleas signal caller he gifted a job like he was a franchise pick , nor can he start panting over Flynn without first dropping his pants and assumming the position bent over a rail sans vaseline , and if he comes out and says he's got the hots for RG3 before he's got a deal in place with the Lambs , I'll split that worthless fat fuck my damn self.


SoulDawg

Exactly. Speak highly of your own and don't speak about what you covet. His actions in Feb-April will tell you what he was thinking from November-January.

Maybe they get lucky again and the next Josh McDaniels is willing to give up Hillis 2.0 for McCoy

And forget about him staying out of the draft room. He fancies himself as all-knowing and your best bet in keeping him out of the draft room is setting up the food spread on a different floor.

[JCoz]

You guys keep saying that, because it is tried and true predraft proceedure, but Holmgren hasn't walked that way.

He was honest about wanting Bradford and honest about not wanting Jimmy Clausen in these exact same situations, games be damned.

Had that not been the case I'd agree 100%.

[Hikohadon]

And forget about him staying out of the draft room. He fancies himself as all-knowing and your best bet in keeping him out of the draft room is setting up the food spread on a different floor.

I see no reason that doesn't work.

Right before each pick, have the catering guy/girl come in and announce another round of crab-stuffed mushrooms.

[JCoz]

BTW, I just searched for anything with Quinn and Holmgren in print, I cant find anything similair to what he said today on Colt.

What was with the "Do I love him? Yes I do." ?? I tuned in after this so I didnt see/hear him say this. I'm guessing it reads different than it sounded or looked like.

But those things, that he was pleased with alot of what colt did and he loves him.....I saw nothing like that regarding Quinn and DA. Almost every quote was pretty cold. Couldn't find any compliments.

[LakeErieWarriors]

This is my take on what Wally said: If the Browns don't take a QB high up in the draft, as Walrus sees it, they are making decisions based on success in the long run. Filling in the spots needed most and not taking any QB's is a way to put the best possible team out there for one final run with little Colty. It's no secret that the Browns are more than just a real good quarterback away from being a real good team. Maybe Walrus is making the quarterback position the final piece of the puzzle. Hell I want Luck or RGIII almost as bad as I want a hummer from Brooklyn Decker, but I also like the way I think he's thinking.

[JCoz]

He will acquire a QB though. Absolutely. Every year, even after we get THE Qb.....

[LakeErieWarriors]

^^^^^^ haha my bad, forgot about that one, too bad there's a limit....

[pod2dawg]

[quote

"We'll probably bring in a new quarterback every year. This year will be no different."[/quote]

Translation: Not done with McCoy; will draft late round bum, no RG3, no Luck trade.

Holmgren, on free agency: "We have a philosophy of how to build the team. Our record was poor. So the natural reaction is go crazy and spend millions of dollars. If that was the right thing to do in our opinion, we will do that. But that's not our philosophy for how to build this for the long term. You see teams do that every year. Does it guarantee anything? Absolutely not. So how do you build the team?

"I've got a lot of faith in (Heckert). He's good at what he does. We have a good coach and a good coaching staff and good young players. We are not opposed to doing anything, but we are going to stay the course."

Translation: Free agency will be about as frustrating for fans as last season.

[/quote]

^^^^^ That.

[Hikohadon]

"We'll probably bring in a new quarterback every year. This year will be no different."

Translation: Not done with McCoy; will draft late round bum, no RG3, no Luck trade.

Holmgren, on free agency: "We have a philosophy of how to build the team. Our record was poor. So the natural reaction is go crazy and spend millions of dollars. If that was the right thing to do in our opinion, we will do that. But that's not our philosophy for how to build this for the long term. You see teams do that every year. Does it guarantee anything? Absolutely not. So how do you build the team?

"I've got a lot of faith in (Heckert). He's good at what he does. We have a good coach and a good coaching staff and good young players. We are not opposed to doing anything, but we are going to stay the course."

Translation: Free agency will be about as frustrating for fans as last season.

^^^^^ That.[/quote]

If Colt isn't gone, who is?

Seneca Wallace, the backup supreme, who's under contract for another couple years?

Thaddeus Lewis, who everyone seems to be super-high on as a prospect?

I think they will acquire a QB, but Colt'll be the one to vamoose.

[JCoz]

Fine Hiko, so who's starting then? The aquired QB?

[Hikohadon]

Fine Hiko, so who's starting then? The aquired QB?

God, I hope so.

If it's Colt/Seneca/some low round QB, then that = QB competition and I'd probably put my money on Wallace winning that. So it's either gonna be Seneca or some acquired QB.

[JCoz]

I just can't see any scenario where Seneca is the starter for the season.

[Hikohadon]

I just can't see any scenario where Seneca is the starter for the season.

Did even Holmgren not say there would be competition?

You think Colt beats Seneca out in that?

I don't.

Personally, I don't see any scenario where Colt is the starter for next season. The love is gone.

[JCoz]

At the end of this season? Yah, no way Colt wins that.

But lets not forget that Seneca has been in the WCO his entire career, and Colt hasn't even had an offseason practicing it. And Seneca wasn't much better as it was.

We are splitting ass hairs anyways, just saying that it is likely Colt gets a bit more comfortable in this offense by next season and it is very, very unlikely Seneca does.

Seneca, is not starting next season. If anyone (Peeks) wants to bet on that, I'll gladly take the field.

I'm with you and Peeks and Swerb and basically everyone regarding Colts future with the Browns right up until Pick #4.

If after Pick #4 RG3 and Luck are not on this team and Colt is, then Colt is your 2012 starting QB.