Moderators: peeker643, jb, swerb, pup
by noles1 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:01 pm
by Hikohadon » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:10 pm
HoodooMan wrote:1. You're confusing 2011 Eli Manning with 2007 Eli Manning. 2007 Eli Manning was kind of garbage. That isn't playing with numbers; it's troof.2. To your "safe bet" stance in your previous post, Peyton Manning appears to be dead, Tom Brady is 34, Drew Brees is 32. To me, that doesn't add up to a safe bet going forward.3. But maybe you're right, and the way the NFL is right now is the way it's going to be for the next decade+. Just probably not.
by e0y2e3 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:11 pm
by Hikohadon » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:16 pm
e0y2e3 wrote:DooDoo thinks the NFL is cyclical and that the QB trend is nothing more than the Ravens and Bucs D trend of yesteryear.I think, due to rule changes and how the game is officiated this new NFL is here to stay, for good.
by e0y2e3 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:16 pm
by noles1 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:18 pm
by HoodooMan » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:27 pm
e0y2e3 wrote:DooDoo thinks the NFL is cyclical and that the QB trend is nothing more than the Ravens and Bucs D trend of yesteryear.
by HoodooMan » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:30 pm
noles1 wrote:SF is about to prove out whether there is the possibility for a Baltimore or Bucs type team winning again.
by e0y2e3 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:36 pm
by HoodooMan » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:37 pm
Hikohadon wrote:I guess I'm just not getting your point here... is it that Colt McCoy might be good enough to win a Lombardi?
by e0y2e3 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:39 pm
by FUDU » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:57 pm
by Hikohadon » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:57 pm
HoodooMan wrote:Hikohadon wrote:I guess I'm just not getting your point here... is it that Colt McCoy might be good enough to win a Lombardi?My only point to start with was that one piece of your post on the last page was wrong. And it is!Big picture point: just try to be really good at something, anything, and maybe you'll have a chance to define the next five years instead of chasing the last five.
by Hikohadon » Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:37 pm
FUDU wrote:Hiko I think you discount the poor play of our Oline way too much. Colt has had to run the moment he has received the snap way too many times this year. Does he account for a number of his sacks by holding on to the ball to long, sure he does. But watching teams like NE and GB you can easily see that they have more time in the pocket from start to finish of every game, it is ridiculous how obvious it is. When they get rushed are they better than Colt, well of course, but that is not what we're talking about here in terms of pressure. Colt consistently has less time than they do to set up and make a read.My biggest contention is that if Colt was consistently given more time, with just slightly better WRS he would look significantly better. Good enough to label franchise elite SB winning QB to build around, IMO no, but good enough to not risk a whole draft on another guy when we have the state of the team we have now.As I've said before this whole elite SB winning QB status has gotten out of hand b/c what comes first the SB or the elite status? Eli Manning is a good example b/c he is not upper echelon in this league. Yet he has that SB ring right in the middle of the elite QB dominant era. If Brees and Rogers didn't have a ring right now are they elite or are they just good enough to get you close but not good enough to win a ring, since they wouldn't have one?Anyway the OP I am replying to has gotten lost in all this, in RE: to Luck stepping in this week.If it is necessary to spin my thoughts as a defense of Colt being the man feel free (not necessarily you Hiko), but I've never stated that one time.
by noles1 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:59 pm
by Gradysmanldy » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:24 pm
by e0y2e3 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:27 pm
Gradysmanldy wrote:WTF do you mean, Brees has a gap? He may be doing it differently, but there is little to no difference between him and Rodgers this year, IMO.
by noles1 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:36 pm
by Gradysmanldy » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:42 pm
by Gradysmanldy » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:44 pm
by peeker643 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:46 pm
by Hikohadon » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:46 pm
noles1 wrote:What is the definition of elite?I would consider 3 guys elite right now. Rodgers, Brady and Brees.Even there, Brees has a gap.The group right behind that. Eli Manning is in with Roethlisberger and definitely in the Top 10. Watch the last 2 minutes of a game or half. Why the hell is he being degrading by even being compared to Colt McCoy or being critiqued? This argument is a nuisance to the actual discussion.
by Hikohadon » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:51 pm
peeker643 wrote:Anyone see Flacco and Ryan in a similar vein as E Manning? Personally, I do. Meaning they're not consistently elite but any of the three can probably carry a team for three games at a time should they get into the playoffs.I know that destroys some theories on having to have an uber-elite QB to win (and FTR I put Ben in the elite class or so close he can see it from where he is) but...ahh..eff it... the Browns need a QB at least in the vicinity of those guys.
by Hikohadon » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:52 pm
Gradysmanldy wrote:They've all played at such a ridiculously high level this year that to argue the merits of why one is better than the other is like trying to argue why you'd rather have Mila Kunis, Emannuelle Chiqri, or Jessica Alba. They're all SO MUCH better than any option we have on a weekly basis that i'm just lumping them in one big pile of sexy quarterbacking.
by e0y2e3 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:53 pm
by FUDU » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:05 pm
Hiko wrote:This is a good question and maybe will help define what I'm trying to say.Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Peyton Manning when healthy - those guys are the super elite.But there are a whole bunch of guys that I think are just behind them, franchise guys, certainly good enough to win the Super Bowl, guys like Eli and POS and Rivers. Then there are a bunch of guys that we could argue about, but are definitely their team's franchise QB and are talented enough to maybe take their team all the way if they play good ball at the right time and have some decent talent around them, like Matt Ryan, Stafford, Newton, etc.
by e0y2e3 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:06 pm
by FUDU » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:08 pm
by e0y2e3 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:08 pm
by FUDU » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:11 pm
by e0y2e3 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:14 pm
by Hikohadon » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:16 pm
by FUDU » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:18 pm
Fact, I've stated dozens of times I give the Browns a shot at the begining of the year until they fall flat on their faces and are no longer worth watching (gave them four games this year).Fact, I was in Ohio for Thanksgiving and watched with my family.Fact, they recently played on a Thursday night where I had a vested interest in Antonio Brown's performance.Fact, I also watched the Texans game where I had a vested interest in Arian Foster's performance.I watch football for fantasy reasons and to make money. It is what it is. Not my fault you just said one of the dumbest things you've ever come up with re: Colt.
by noles1 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:27 pm
by e0y2e3 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:39 pm
by pup » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:19 pm
by swerb » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:34 pm
by leadpipe » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:29 am
swerb wrote:Browns OL is far from one of the worst in the league. Pro Bowler LT that is one of the best pass blockers in recent NFL history. Pro Bowl caliber C. Two most important spots on the line.Its an average OL. Made to look shitty by a skittish smallish QB with a popcorn arm, a running game crippled by injuries to our only legit RB, and CFL WRs that can't get open.
by Lubber » Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:13 am
e0y2e3 wrote:Grady, Brady gets the lifetime achievement award, if he throws more picks than Brees this year I don't care.And Brees has a career of being turnover heavy. I wouldn't put a gap, but I clearly see Rogers - Brady - Brees in that order.Plus christ, Brady is playing on a team with pretty much one actual WR on the roster.
by JCoz » Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:42 am
by FUDU » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:07 am
by Hikohadon » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:36 am
by e0y2e3 » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:45 am
by JCoz » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:58 am
by Lubber » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:22 am
by Hikohadon » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:44 pm
JCoz wrote:Hiko, yeah that's a bit of an oversimplification or exaggeration, but again, forget about colt. Has nothin to do with him. I'm all for replacing colt. But that right side has been awful, not subpar. The line has not been average is my point. If we had Rodgers or Brady we'd still be talking about how shitty the right side is. You don't have to be defending colt to point that out.
by Hikohadon » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:52 pm
by JCoz » Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:08 pm
by FUDU » Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:35 pm
by Hikohadon » Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:57 pm
FUDU wrote:BTW Hiko I'm not trying to paint your stance into the corner of extreme.
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