McCoy Era Over with Browns

[peeker643]

They're slow out there but they are finally getting around to it:

http://bit.ly/ufijkw

Concussion + Brad McCoy reaction + Heckert Press Conference + Walrus Not Even Calling = Finito

BEREA - It's becoming apparent that Browns quarterback Colt McCoy has played his final down of the season.

Coach Pat Shurmur wouldn't rule out McCoy for Saturday's game against the Baltimore Ravens, but he said "it's likely, for sure" that Seneca Wallace will start for a second straight game.

McCoy was at the team facility Tuesday morning to attend meetings but was sent home before noon. He's still suffering concussion-like symptoms from his helmet-to-helmet collision with Pittsburgh Steelers linebacker James Harrison.

Shurmur said McCoy hasn't been advised to shut it down for the season, but with one game remaining after Saturday's contest it's doubtful the team will risk further injury to him in a meaningless season finale against the Pittsburgh Steelers.

"He went through the treatment process today," Shurmur said.

McCoy has made some progress. Last week he wasn't able to attend meetings.

[Hikohadon]

They're slow out there but they are finally getting around to it:

http://bit.ly/ufijkw

Concussion + Brad McCoy reaction + Heckert Press Conference + Walrus Not Even Calling = Finito

BEREA - It's becoming apparent that Browns quarterback Colt McCoy has played his final down as a Cleveland Brown.

Coach Pat Shurmur wouldn't rule out McCoy for Saturday's game against the Baltimore Ravens, but he said "it's likely, for sure" that Seneca Wallace will start for a second straight game.

McCoy was at the team facility Tuesday morning to attend meetings but was sent home before noon. He's still suffering concussion-like symptoms from his helmet-to-helmet collision with Pittsburgh Steelers linebacker James Harrison.

Shurmur said McCoy hasn't been advised to shut it down for the season, but with one game remaining after Saturday's contest it's doubtful the team will risk further injury to him in a meaningless season finale against the Pittsburgh Steelers.

"He went through the treatment process today," Shurmur said.

McCoy has made some progress. Last week he wasn't able to attend meetings.

Fixed.

Didn't take Heckgren long to see Quinn was useless, same thing happens with Colt.

Brad McCoy made it easier on them.

[peeker643]

Agreed. It seems relatively obvious but I highly doubt the media will consider it much until... well... I'm not sure. Depends just how old and lazy they happen to be.

[Doc]

I had forgotten, but Seneca inked a 3 year deal in March. That leaves him 2 more years. With Barkley going back to school (heard on radio), that leaves RG3 or bust, right? Also, do you trade/cut Colt regardless of the draft results? If we were to get RG3, is he a guy that starts from Day 1 then? Open competition? Just thinking out loud. When I heard Barkley say he was going back...well, either we trade up and get our QB, or we don't get a can't miss QB this draft. Luck and RG3 won't be there at 4, not with Barkley out. RG3 is your newest hot commodity. And there's about a 5% chance he's available at 4.

At least now you know what you're up against. They've got 4 months to decide if they want to pony up to guarantee him at 2.

[Hikohadon]

I had forgotten, but Seneca inked a 3 year deal in March. That leaves him 2 more years. With Barkley going back to school (heard on radio), that leaves RG3 or bust, right? Also, do you trade/cut Colt regardless of the draft results? If we were to get RG3, is he a guy that starts from Day 1 then? Open competition? Just thinking out loud. When I heard Barkley say he was going back...well, either we trade up and get our QB, or we don't get a can't miss QB this draft. Luck and RG3 won't be there at 4, not with Barkley out. RG3 is your newest hot commodity. And there's about a 5% chance he's available at 4.

At least now you know what you're up against. They've got 4 months to decide if they want to pony up to guarantee him at 2.

If RG3 is gone by #4/don't trade up, then the Browns are fucked. All the good FA QB's will be gone by the time the draft rolls around, so you're stuck with another year of Seneca/Colt (and maybe praying that Thaddeus Lewis develops).

Barkley is indeed screwing shit up. I would say a few things about my hopes for his future, but they would be immature and invite bad karma.

At least the Browns won't be drafting that mama's boy.

I think I might be changing boats... if the #2 slot can be had for our 2 first rounders, I do that deal. Probably take more than that, though.

[Hikohadon]

Urg, it's happening again.

What's wrong with this picture?

[Hikohadon]

"This is the Round I'll be picked in for 2013 after a disappointing 2012! Wheeeeee!"

[Fire Marshall Bill]

FTR, I don't see Minny or St Loo being interested in RG or trading down

It just Browns Fan nature to think the worst

We just need to finish at 4, IMO

Prognostications are actually silly unless available FA's are factored in

Yes or no?

[Hikohadon]

Prognostications are actually silly unless available FA's are factored in

Yes or no?

True.

That being said, with Barkley gone then the gap between RG3 and the #3 prospect (Landry Jones/Tannehill) becomes huge. STL or MIN might get an offer they can't refuse b/c Washington or Miami are desperate.

It's not hard to imagine that scenario.

Heckert needs to start talking up Colt pronto. Probably already too late.

This makes us more of a potential buyer for Flynn, imho.

[JCoz]

Whatever you think about Barkleys pro potential, saying he going to have a dissapointing season next year and or not at least be the #3 QB taken next year is doing so with little facts backing them up. Hiko, no effing way he's a 2nd rounder unless he shreds his knee.

[Erie Warrior]

Hiko, no effing way he's a 2nd rounder unless his throwing arm falls off

Repaired knees are a dime a dozen.

[jta1975]

Before the year started I started a post that asked what McCoy needed to do for this season to be considered a good year.....looking back at it I don't think he met any of the posters requirements.

Bad record
Didn't meet statistical benchmarks
Wasn't a difference maker
Zero Wow Factor
No game that sticks out as a "he is our future" game.
He struggled with the one statistic (comp%) other than wins he was elite in college at


McCoy's concussion only helped put and end to it early, he failed to impress and without a doubt the QB depth chart will be much different in 2012 but I wouldn't get my heart set on the starter coming from our first pick in the draft.... but if the Browns stay in the 4th spot that will be the pressure point for anyone needing a QB after Luck and that should make for a fun draft.

[Hikohadon]

Whatever you think about Barkleys pro potential, saying he going to have a dissapointing season next year and or not at least be the #3 QB taken next year is doing so with little facts backing them up. Hiko, no effing way he's a 2nd rounder unless he shreds his knee.

Or he suffers a different injury and other guys pass him and not a lot of teams have a QB need.

I was mostly being facetious, but ya never know what a difference a year makes.

PS - Fact backing them up? There are facts in predicting 2013 draft slots?

[FUDU]

Whatever you think about Barkleys pro potential, saying he going to have a dissapointing season next year and or not at least be the #3 QB taken next year is doing so with little facts backing them up. Hiko, no effing way he's a 2nd rounder unless he shreds his knee.

Or he suffers a different injury and other guys pass him and not a lot of teams have a QB need.

I was mostly being facetious, but ya never know what a difference a year makes.

PS - Fact backing them up? There are facts in predicting 2013 draft slots?

The Browns will be picking in the top 10, and need 1 of everything.

Duh.

[pup]

Minnesota and St. Louis would both be happy with the Kalil or Claoiborne. Both of which will be available at 4 if they trade down.

Starting to come together boys. Luck is in sights. Griffin is just over his shoulder.

Get one. AT ALL COSTS.

[JCoz]

Whatever you think about Barkleys pro potential, saying he going to have a dissapointing season next year and or not at least be the #3 QB taken next year is doing so with little facts backing them up. Hiko, no effing way he's a 2nd rounder unless he shreds his knee.

Or he suffers a different injury and other guys pass him and not a lot of teams have a QB need.

I was mostly being facetious, but ya never know what a difference a year makes.

PS - Fact backing them up? There are facts in predicting 2013 draft slots?

True, facts might not have been the right word exactly, I was meaning the Jr QB class going into the year (RG3 was not a total surprise Peeks, not akin to Cam at all really) And USC's returning team and the Pacten in general.

All of those things would point to him having a good year and at least being in an equal position for next years draft. None of it would support seeing him have a disappointing Sr season.

HOWEVER, the one non-injury related thing that could make or break him would be a NC game vs an LSU/Bama type defense.

He Brady Quinn it and get dropped into the bottom of the 1st or worse, or he could play well and play his way to #1.

[peeker643]

RGIII was more on the radar than Cam. I didn't say he wasn't. But he was unknown to 98% of the people in these threads who suddenly must have him at all costs

And there will be another one of these guys next year, and the next and the next. I see very little risk in Luck. I see a bit more 'flameout' potential in RGIII although I also see more upside.

In Barkley I see Colt McCoy. Sorry.

I know that's sacrilege, but their situations and physical skills are eerily similar IMO.

Whatever you think about Barkleys pro potential, saying he going to have a dissapointing season next year and or not at least be the #3 QB taken next year is doing so with little facts backing them up. Hiko, no effing way he's a 2nd rounder unless he shreds his knee.

Or he suffers a different injury and other guys pass him and not a lot of teams have a QB need.

I was mostly being facetious, but ya never know what a difference a year makes.

PS - Fact backing them up? There are facts in predicting 2013 draft slots?

True, facts might not have been the right word exactly, I was meaning the Jr QB class going into the year (RG3 was not a total surprise Peeks, not akin to Cam at all really) And USC's returning team and the Pacten in general.

All of those things would point to him having a good year and at least being in an equal position for next years draft. None of it would support seeing him have a disappointing Sr season.

HOWEVER, the one non-injury related thing that could make or break him would be a NC game vs an LSU/Bama type defense.

He Brady Quinn it and get dropped into the bottom of the 1st or worse, or he could play well and play his way to #1.

[Hikohadon]

I think the ceiling is certainly lower in Barkley than RG3. But it's higher than McCoy's.

Barkley is nice, steady... but not a "wow" player.

[e0y2e3]

I see a lot of Quinn in Barkley, not nearly as much Mr. Adorkable.

[JCoz]

RGIII was more on the radar than Cam. I didn't say he wasn't. But he was unknown to 98% of the people in these threads who suddenly must have him at all costs

And there will be another one of these guys next year, and the next and the next. I see very little risk in Luck. I see a bit more 'flameout' potential in RGIII although I also see more upside.

In Barkley I see Colt McCoy. Sorry.

I know that's sacrilege, but their situations and physical skills are eerily similar IMO.

What I mean is that if you made a list of the top QB prospects going into this season, RG3 would have undoubtably been on it, while Cam didn't exist before his senior year. No offense to any on this board, but I dont know that it should be the benchmark for known QB prospects in college. I think those here that are interested in such things all knew about RG3.

Anyways its not an important point, and no need to apologize Peek, I am not repping Barkley. I haven't seen much of him, all I know is that he is a very good college QB and regardless of how much Colt or Quinn people here see, its not going to stop the NFL from drafting him in the 1st round.

If you see my posts on Barkley (all 6-7 of them, lol) not one of them says I want the Browns to get him or that I think hes going to be successful in the NFL. Its more inquisitive on why he wouldn't be a guy the Browns should look at him. I have no skin in the game, you dont hurt my feelings by saying he'll bust in the NFL, lol. What I was saying to Hiko has nothing to do with what he'll do once he gets there.

[SoulDawg74]

Before the year started I started a post that asked what McCoy needed to do for this season to be considered a good year.....looking back at it I don't think he met any of the posters requirements.

Bad record
Didn't meet statistical benchmarks
Wasn't a difference maker
Zero Wow Factor
No game that sticks out as a "he is our future" game.
He struggled with the one statistic (comp%) other than wins he was elite in college at


McCoy's concussion only helped put and end to it early, he failed to impress and without a doubt the QB depth chart will be much different in 2012 but I wouldn't get my heart set on the starter coming from our first pick in the draft.... but if the Browns stay in the 4th spot that will be the pressure point for anyone needing a QB after Luck and that should make for a fun draft.

SD:

JTA while I respect most of your takes and agree Colt failed in all categories after the fact grade wise.

I feel it was a useless experiment from the start to trot out an undersized weak armed Mutt and treat him as a franchise pick in the first place.

Ignorant arrogant hubris on Holmgrens part .

My criticisms were met by the children as personal hatred of Cot , while nothing could be further from the truth .

I liked the kid , hated the prospect , we bypassed far better talent in last years drfat where I advocated we should have made our move then so as not to be stuck in this position now.

and

Well it might be that we can't outbid Washington for the second pick which will now be at auction , I feel we would be nothing short of head up the ass fuckin fools if we don't come out of that top five spot with RG3 or Luck.

Our decline as a franchise can be directly linked to the point we have no face of our franchise and that face is your QB .

Until we mount a threat under center capable of whupping any team at any venue , we will remain a joke.

and one more thing ,

While Luck is the consensus can't miss pick IMO RG3 is the true elite star in this draft and will be the more sensational pro.

In back to back years the best athlete in the draft is a QB , and while we stoopidly sat on our hands and failed to make a move in regard to Newton , we should
not repeat such stoopidity in regards to Griffin.

SoulDawg

[SoulDawg74]

RGIII was more on the radar than Cam. I didn't say he wasn't. But he was unknown to 98% of the people in these threads who suddenly must have him at all costs

And there will be another one of these guys next year, and the next and the next. I see very little risk in Luck. I see a bit more 'flameout' potential in RGIII although I also see more upside.

In Barkley I see Colt McCoy. Sorry.

I know that's sacrilege, but their situations and physical skills are eerily similar IMO.

Whatever you think about Barkleys pro potential, saying he going to have a dissapointing season next year and or not at least be the #3 QB taken next year is doing so with little facts backing them up. Hiko, no effing way he's a 2nd rounder unless he shreds his knee.

Or he suffers a different injury and other guys pass him and not a lot of teams have a QB need.

I was mostly being facetious, but ya never know what a difference a year makes.

PS - Fact backing them up? There are facts in predicting 2013 draft slots?

True, facts might not have been the right word exactly, I was meaning the Jr QB class going into the year (RG3 was not a total surprise Peeks, not akin to Cam at all really) And USC's returning team and the Pacten in general.

All of those things would point to him having a good year and at least being in an equal position for next years draft. None of it would support seeing him have a disappointing Sr season.

HOWEVER, the one non-injury related thing that could make or break him would be a NC game vs an LSU/Bama type defense.

He Brady Quinn it and get dropped into the bottom of the 1st or worse, or he could play well and play his way to #1.

SD:

Barkley is a rich kid asshole , who'd rather chase College ass and remain a big fish in the small pond of school , rather than step up and be THE MAN.

Its a character flaw that afflicted Lienart and Palmer , and one that Sanchez escaped , when he stepped up ahead of Pete Carroll's claws .

On RG3 your all wet Peeks .

The kid is Warren Moon who wasn't forced to go to Canada and waste 30,000, yards of production and six Championships in a league the NFL doesn't recognize, only this version is taller smarter and faster with a release quicker than Marinos , and accuracy both short and deep , that would make a dart board Champ jealous.

If we fork over Multiple #1's it should be for him instead of Luck.

Better arm and better athlete.


SoulDawg

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I feel it was a useless experiment from the start to trot out an undersized weak armed Mutt and treat him as a franchise pick in the first place.


Ignorant take ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

McCoy was NEVER treated like a franchise pick

He was treated like a 3rd rounder who, due to injuries, played well enuff to take a serious look at while playing on an absolutely horrible fuking football team

[JCoz]

I feel it was a useless experiment from the start to trot out an undersized weak armed Mutt and treat him as a franchise pick in the first place.


Ignorant take ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

McCoy was NEVER treated like a franchise pick

He was treated like a 3rd rounder who, due to injuries, played well enuff to take a serious look at while playing on an absolutely horrible fuking football team

Completely and 100% correct. SD couldn't have been more offbase on that statement.

[motherscratcher]

Whatever you think about Barkleys pro potential, saying he going to have a dissapointing season next year and or not at least be the #3 QB taken next year is doing so with little facts backing them up. Hiko, no effing way he's a 2nd rounder unless he shreds his knee.

Or he suffers a different injury and other guys pass him and not a lot of teams have a QB need.

I was mostly being facetious, but ya never know what a difference a year makes.

PS - Fact backing them up? There are facts in predicting 2013 draft slots?

The Browns will be picking in the top 10, and need 1 of everything.

Duh.

Agree, that is definitely a fact.

[peeker643]

RGIII was more on the radar than Cam. I didn't say he wasn't. But he was unknown to 98% of the people in these threads who suddenly must have him at all costs

And there will be another one of these guys next year, and the next and the next. I see very little risk in Luck. I see a bit more 'flameout' potential in RGIII although I also see more upside.

In Barkley I see Colt McCoy. Sorry.

I know that's sacrilege, but their situations and physical skills are eerily similar IMO.

Whatever you think about Barkleys pro potential, saying he going to have a dissapointing season next year and or not at least be the #3 QB taken next year is doing so with little facts backing them up. Hiko, no effing way he's a 2nd rounder unless he shreds his knee.

Or he suffers a different injury and other guys pass him and not a lot of teams have a QB need.

I was mostly being facetious, but ya never know what a difference a year makes.

PS - Fact backing them up? There are facts in predicting 2013 draft slots?

True, facts might not have been the right word exactly, I was meaning the Jr QB class going into the year (RG3 was not a total surprise Peeks, not akin to Cam at all really) And USC's returning team and the Pacten in general.

All of those things would point to him having a good year and at least being in an equal position for next years draft. None of it would support seeing him have a disappointing Sr season.

HOWEVER, the one non-injury related thing that could make or break him would be a NC game vs an LSU/Bama type defense.

He Brady Quinn it and get dropped into the bottom of the 1st or worse, or he could play well and play his way to #1.

SD:

Barkley is a rich kid asshole , who'd rather chase College ass and remain a big fish in the small pond of school , rather than step up and be THE MAN.

Its a character flaw that afflicted Lienart and Palmer , and one that Sanchez escaped , when he stepped up ahead of Pete Carroll's claws .

On RG3 your all wet Peeks .

The kid is Warren Moon who wasn't forced to go to Canada and waste 30,000, yards of production and six Championships in a league the NFL doesn't recognize, only this version is taller smarter and faster with a release quicker than Marinos , and accuracy both short and deep , that would make a dart board Champ jealous.

If we fork over Multiple #1's it should be for him instead of Luck.

Better arm and better athlete.


SoulDawg

10 years down the road you may be right. I just don't have that 'Absolutely Can't Miss' feeling with RGIII that others do. It's not about the athleticism and the arm for me. It's not about the brains. It's a combination of the fact that he's smaller and doesn't have the length of a college career that Luck does. I don't know. I do believe his upside is higher than Luck's. I also think the floor is a lot lower.

But hey, I was waaaay wrong about Newton too, so I know nothing. It's just my opinion.

If I'm wrong I'm gonna be way wrong and I'd take him if he's there when they pick. Without a hesitation. But with all the holes to fill I won't be upset if they don't sell out everything to go up and get him.

[Govbarney]

Newton is 6' 5", 248 lbs who runs a 4.59 :40, played in the best conference in College Football, and won the national championship.

RG3 is 6' 1", 220 LBS and may have a faster :40 time if you look at his high school track statistics, and plays in arguably the third best conference in the nation in which his team has never placed higher then third.

Comparisons between the two are a stretch.

[Gradysmanldy]

As SD and Ey have pointed out Ad Naseum, for the 1000x.....Cam was MUCH more raw coming into the draft with only one year experience in a ZONE READ type offense. He ran regularly, as they were not sure coming into the draft if he could transition into a pro style offense where he had to throw the ball and make multiple reads.

RG3 runs a pro style offense and operates in the pocket FAR more than Cam ever did. (100 more attempts in the season that RGIII ran the most, this one) He has twice the attempts, and a lot more film for GM's to study.

If you watch the highlights/videos for each of them, you can see that they aren't remotely comparable.....and that's not a bad thing. He's as sure a thing as they come. (which isn't saying much)

Personally, im on the bandwagon. I'd be EQUALLY happy with either of them, but if they are both off the board, forget Landry or mid-tier.

[Hikohadon]

Newton is 6' 5", 248 lbs who runs a 4.59 :40, played in the best conference in College Football, and won the national championship.

RG3 is 6' 1", 220 LBS and may have a faster :40 time if you look at his high school track statistics, and plays in arguably the third best conference in the nation in which his team has never placed higher then third.

Comparisons between the two are a stretch.

I'd be interested to see you find me one outlet that lists him at 6'1.

Plus, you can add that RG3 comes out of college with markedly superior passing stats.

[Hikohadon]

As SD and Ey have pointed out Ad Naseum, for the 1000x.....Cam was MUCH more raw coming into the draft with only one year experience in a ZONE READ type offense. He ran regularly, as they were not sure coming into the draft if he could transition into a pro style offense where he had to throw the ball and make multiple reads.

RG3 runs a pro style offense and operates in the pocket FAR more than Cam ever did. (100 more attempts in the season that RGIII ran the most, this one) He has twice the attempts, and a lot more film for GM's to study.

If you watch the highlights/videos for each of them, you can see that they aren't remotely comparable.....and that's not a bad thing. He's as sure a thing as they come. (which isn't saying much)

Personally, im on the bandwagon. I'd be EQUALLY happy with either of them, but if they are both off the board, forget Landry or mid-tier.

Exactly. If they were both coming out this year, you wouldn't find a soul that wouldn't say that RG3 was a far superior passer.

[SoulDawg74]

I feel it was a useless experiment from the start to trot out an undersized weak armed Mutt and treat him as a franchise pick in the first place.


Ignorant take ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

McCoy was NEVER treated like a franchise pick

He was treated like a 3rd rounder who, due to injuries, played well enuff to take a serious look at while playing on an absolutely horrible fuking football team

SD:

As per your usual head up the ass response along with that putz who just cosigned
your reply , riddle me this jackass .

Why was Colt gifted a spot sans competition just like you would treat a franchise pick .

Its clear Wallace is better , yet the Browns made no effort when Colt struggled thru the year to replace him just train him and live with his bullshit , exactly like you would treat a $50 million dollar franchise investment .

The Browns made sure this kid played under pain of death, avoiding playing anybody else including not dressing the third stringer who is bigger and has a better arm than either Wallace or Colt with a full year in Shurmurs system , , so that the the dirty little secret which showed up at Zona wouldn't be evident to even the most unsophisticated assholes such as yourself .

Colt ain't shit he's Holmgrens experiment gone bad , trying to eclipse Walsh his mentor , by finding the next Joe Montana in the third the exact same round as Joe was picked , and thus how smart he is .

Colt never earned this shot , his shitty horrible play end of last year warranted drafting better , this was all orchestrated by Holmgren , to bypass all competition in the draft and free agency and we now suffer the result of not doing last year what we have to now again address this year. and Merry Christmas


SoulDawg

[SoulDawg74]

Newton is 6' 5", 248 lbs who runs a 4.59 :40, played in the best conference in College Football, and won the national championship.

RG3 is 6' 1", 220 LBS and may have a faster :40 time if you look at his high school track statistics, and plays in arguably the third best conference in the nation in which his team has never placed higher then third.

Comparisons between the two are a stretch.

I'd be interested to see you find me one outlet that lists him at 6'1.

Plus, you can add that RG3 comes out of college with markedly superior passing stats.

SD:

Just a heads up , when the meat market gets done , Griffin will be closer to a full 6'2' if not bigger and closer to 215 lbs than 220 IMO .

Dude has the best arm in the draft with the best accuracy , so I' have no clue where the Newton comparisons could be coming from except for guys who really didn't watch games on either guy.


SoulDawg

[peeker643]

Fwiw, when I speak of Newton and RGIII in the same sentence I'm speaking solely about the hype and buzz and publicity. Not about their games.

Also, when Cam came out, his year of running zone read was concerning to me. Not because he's not smart (dude was bright, engaging and all that in interviews during that 'Pops' shitstorm) but because that's typically what you run if your QB runs better than throws (see Tebow, Tim and the 2011 Denver Broncos).

As I also said before, I was wrong.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Just to stick a fork in the RG doesn't have enuff of a track record take, Michael Vick only had 220 attempts his entire college career

[peeker643]

Just to stick a fork in the RG doesn't have enuff of a track record take, Michael Vick only had 220 attempts his entire college career

And RGIII, in all likelihood, is more pro-ready and already better mechanically than Vick was by a good margin.

Like I said, I'm not a draft expert. I'm just knocking stuff around.

And another aspect not getting anywhere enough run, in my opinion, is that RGIII hasn't declared for the draft. If Barkley's decision caused a ripple of surprise (or more) then I wonder what RGIII staying in school does.

The Colts losing next week and RGIII staying in school might actually be the best thing that could happen to the Browns

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Thats why I'm glad Barkley is out of the equation

One less chance of screwing it up and a great reason to go D in the first and 2nd rd'

I want the Browns to start hurting teams.....I want a punishing defense

Coples and Burifict fit the bill

[trsteve1]

Why was Colt gifted a spot sans competition just like you would treat a franchise pick .

Its clear Wallace is better , yet the Browns made no effort when Colt struggled thru the year to replace him just train him and live with his bullshit , exactly like you would treat a $50 million dollar franchise investment .

Colt was gifted a spot because we know what we have/had in Wallace, and at this point in his career, he is no better than a spot starter/backup. The Browns were going to suck this year no matter who threw the football (unless perhaps Hillis remains healthy and doesn't show himself to be a prima donna and one-year wonder.. thus allowing us to dominate on the ground)..

If being a bad football team is a foregone conclusion, might as well go with the young guy. Besides, Wallace's games last season, were far from "inspiring"

Just to stick a fork in the RG doesn't have enuff of a track record take, Michael Vick only had 220 attempts his entire college career

And, fwiw, what has Vick done? Have ONE good season as a QB, and the rest of his career be a RB wearing the same jersey number as a QB, and take snaps..

Just sayin'

[mattvan1]

I feel it was a useless experiment from the start to trot out an undersized weak armed Mutt and treat him as a franchise pick in the first place.


Ignorant take ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

McCoy was NEVER treated like a franchise pick

He was treated like a 3rd rounder who, due to injuries, played well enuff to take a serious look at while playing on an absolutely horrible fuking football team

SD:

As per your usual head up the ass response along with that putz who just cosigned
your reply , riddle me this jackass .

Why was Colt gifted a spot sans competition just like you would treat a franchise pick .

Its clear Wallace is better , yet the Browns made no effort when Colt struggled thru the year to replace him just train him and live with his bullshit , exactly like you would treat a $50 million dollar franchise investment .

The Browns made sure this kid played under pain of death, avoiding playing anybody else including not dressing the third stringer who is bigger and has a better arm than either Wallace or Colt with a full year in Shurmurs system , , so that the the dirty little secret which showed up at Zona wouldn't be evident to even the most unsophisticated assholes such as yourself .

Colt ain't shit he's Holmgrens experiment gone bad , trying to eclipse Walsh his mentor , by finding the next Joe Montana in the third the exact same round as Joe was picked , and thus how smart he is .

Colt never earned this shot , his shitty horrible play end of last year warranted drafting better , this was all orchestrated by Holmgren , to bypass all competition in the draft and free agency and we now suffer the result of not doing last year what we have to now again address this year. and Merry Christmas


SoulDawg

Dude,
as often happens you have a solid take obfuscated by so much hyperbole it's difficult to take you seriously.

Once Newton, Dareus, Miller, Green and Petersen were off the board, H&H traded down and started filling needs. The only QB gem of 2011 was Cam, and no amount of revsionist history is going to convince anyone, especially me, that we should have traded up to get him.

So, we're left with Colt/Wallace, or drafting Locker, Mallet, or Dalton. Please don't tell me any one of those guys was The Chosen One - in the Luck mode. No way no how. No one knows, and the risk was way too great - toomany needs at other positions to take a flyer on anyone else in Round 1 or Round 2.

The McCoy "experiment" was the right thing to do - now it's run it's course and we continue the hunt for our Neo.

But please don't try and maintain the Locker or any of the other run of the mill QBs was worthy of being drafted by a team who needs everything and really did not know what it had with McCoy.

[leadpipe]

The Jake Locker stuff is classic.

I'm not sure if people don't realize, aren't paying attention or what - but the University of Washington upgraded that position this year - by a big margin.

Possibly one of the most overrated cats I've ever seen.

Has a lot of what people want - big arm, linebacker mentality and all that bullshit, but at some point ya just gotta be good.

As a rule, guys that aren't that good in college don't succeed in the pros.

Someone want to roll the dice on that extremely rare chance, go ahead and shoot, me, no thanks.

[SoulDawg74]

I feel it was a useless experiment from the start to trot out an undersized weak armed Mutt and treat him as a franchise pick in the first place.


Ignorant take ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

McCoy was NEVER treated like a franchise pick

He was treated like a 3rd rounder who, due to injuries, played well enuff to take a serious look at while playing on an absolutely horrible fuking football team

SD:

As per your usual head up the ass response along with that putz who just cosigned
your reply , riddle me this jackass .

Why was Colt gifted a spot sans competition just like you would treat a franchise pick .

Its clear Wallace is better , yet the Browns made no effort when Colt struggled thru the year to replace him just train him and live with his bullshit , exactly like you would treat a $50 million dollar franchise investment .

The Browns made sure this kid played under pain of death, avoiding playing anybody else including not dressing the third stringer who is bigger and has a better arm than either Wallace or Colt with a full year in Shurmurs system , , so that the the dirty little secret which showed up at Zona wouldn't be evident to even the most unsophisticated assholes such as yourself .

Colt ain't shit he's Holmgrens experiment gone bad , trying to eclipse Walsh his mentor , by finding the next Joe Montana in the third the exact same round as Joe was picked , and thus how smart he is .

Colt never earned this shot , his shitty horrible play end of last year warranted drafting better , this was all orchestrated by Holmgren , to bypass all competition in the draft and free agency and we now suffer the result of not doing last year what we have to now again address this year. and Merry Christmas


SoulDawg

Dude,
as often happens you have a solid take obfuscated by so much hyperbole it's difficult to take you seriously.

Once Newton, Dareus, Miller, Green and Petersen were off the board, H&H traded down and started filling needs. The only QB gem of 2011 was Cam, and no amount of revsionist history is going to convince anyone, especially me, that we should have traded up to get him.

So, we're left with Colt/Wallace, or drafting Locker, Mallet, or Dalton. Please don't tell me any one of those guys was The Chosen One - in the Luck mode. No way no how. No one knows, and the risk was way too great - toomany needs at other positions to take a flyer on anyone else in Round 1 or Round 2.

The McCoy "experiment" was the right thing to do - now it's run it's course and we continue the hunt for our Neo.

But please don't try and maintain the Locker or any of the other run of the mill QBs was worthy of being drafted by a team who needs everything and really did not know what it had with McCoy.

SD:

Well Matt the Bungals netting Dalton in the 2nd was just luck instead of them doing their due diligence and out scouting other teams who also needed QB like the Browns who bypassed three guys while trading down and still didn't capitalize from such a lofty position to secure a better more physically talented signal caller choosing to go with a weak armed baby who your sister can out throw in the toughest division in football , with evidence he was stomped while participating in said division.( if thats what you want to hear to assuage your angst)

So instead of solidly making an attempt to solidfy the position by signing competence in Hasselback along with a Locker we chose to punt while other teams addressed the position with more than a hope and a hunch ,while we blindly ignored evidence on film and in live action of Colts foibles end of last year which nullified this experiment from the outset end of last year for anybody paying attention.

Moreover Mallet and Tyrod Taylor as deep as the fourth round were both clear upgrades over Homlgrens pet Monkey .

There was no excuse the Browns in their position should have traded up for Newton and never considered the option and deliberately with purpose by passed all competition for Holmgrens pet .

Thats the facts as depicted to how this roster was constructed , totally weighting all options in Colts favor .

It was pure folly and its met its just demise with shit hitting the fan and sticking to everybody in an odoriferous haze of suck incapable and clinging like burning napalm to all the foolish colt groupies branding a scarlet letter of disqualification to even converse in this discussion .

Thus they should STFU and listen and save all the white noise which choked this board last year , so we can go forward this year without the clutter.

We have roster holes in other positions , but we have a big gaping maw the size of the grand Canyon in regard to the dogmeat we're trotting out at QB to compete in the toughest division in football.

All other considerations to fixing this position are mute , and of secondary importance.

This is business and has nothing to do with personal feelings , and never did.


SoulDawg

[SoulDawg74]

I see a lot of Quinn in Barkley, not nearly as much Mr. Adorkable.

SD:

Barkley's advisers told him he'd go third off the board behind Luck and RG3 and he chose to powder his nose.


SoulDawg

[SoulDawg74]

The Jake Locker stuff is classic.

I'm not sure if people don't realize, aren't paying attention or what - but the University of Washington upgraded that position this year - by a big margin.

Possibly one of the most overrated cats I've ever seen.

Has a lot of what people want - big arm, linebacker mentality and all that bullshit, but at some point ya just gotta be good.

As a rule, guys that aren't that good in college don't succeed in the pros.

Someone want to roll the dice on that extremely rare chance, go ahead and shoot, me, no thanks.

SD:

Locker hurt his stock when he returned to College with a new coach and new system plus the risk of injury , and the scouts raising the focus on the microscope to 100 X , same as Lienhart hurt himself and the same risk Luck took and Barkley now must weather..

Locker has the ability and is more accurate on the run than when he was in the pocket which denotes bad footwork and not bringing your body to bear thru your throws but instead using your arm without leverage , thus passes will sail or inexplicably dive for the dirt.

Jake is the type who needs lots of reps , but he has the physical extraordinaire skills of a superb athlete who can impact a defense ala a rottenberger on just his physical gifts when a play breaks down.

I emphasized the point if you draft him Hasselabck must also be signed , which would have provided a tutor to both Locker and Colt and a QB capable of winning the games we threw away this year , while installing this offense and developing a receiving corp.

Tennessee followed this exact blueprint with the exact same personnel I outlined.

SoulDawg

[Fire Marshall Bill]

There was no excuse the Browns in their position should have traded up for Newton and never considered the option and deliberately with purpose by passed all competition for Holmgrens pet .

Below is a response worthy of your take.........

[SoulDawg74]

Why was Colt gifted a spot sans competition just like you would treat a franchise pick .

Its clear Wallace is better , yet the Browns made no effort when Colt struggled thru the year to replace him just train him and live with his bullshit , exactly like you would treat a $50 million dollar franchise investment .

Colt was gifted a spot because we know what we have/had in Wallace, and at this point in his career, he is no better than a spot starter/backup. The Browns were going to suck this year no matter who threw the football (unless perhaps Hillis remains healthy and doesn't show himself to be a prima donna and one-year wonder.. thus allowing us to dominate on the ground)..

If being a bad football team is a foregone conclusion, might as well go with the young guy. Besides, Wallace's games last season, were far from "inspiring"

Just to stick a fork in the RG doesn't have enuff of a track record take, Michael Vick only had 220 attempts his entire college career

And, fwiw, what has Vick done? Have ONE good season as a QB, and the rest of his career be a RB wearing the same jersey number as a QB, and take snaps..

Just sayin'

SD:

Bullshit on all points , Its bad practice to gift spots in the first place , but teams who invest big dollars in a high draft picks have a predilection to do so no matter what tripe BS PR spiel they attest to otherwise, to treat a dogmeat third round flea bitten mutt who hadn't shown dick other than tossing interceptions like Candy end of last year was beyond the pale,and plain inexcusable ignorant hubris on Holmgrens part.

Mike Vick has been an All pro in both Atlanta and Philly , so pull your dumb ass head out of your tight puckered orifice and recognize what you are too stoopid to believe despite evidence to the contrary .

Moreover under Reid , he has become a superb passer and a threat thru the air which far exceeds his running ability , He and Aaron Rodgers throw 30 yard ropes like short passes, with touch timing panache and accuracy that ordinary talents like a McCoy can't execute with a man five yards in front of them uncovered in a seven on seven practice.

Holmgren is the architect of his clusterfuck along with Heckert who payed a hump like Cong balls instead of a productive force like Hillis , while bypassing true linebacker talent like Puz and Tulloch in the draft , causing locker room dissension to go along with inept play.

We are a tough team when Hillis plays , and no Heckert we don't have the best trio of linebackers in the league



SoulDawg

[SoulDawg74]

There was no excuse the Browns in their position should have traded up for Newton and never considered the option and deliberately with purpose by passed all competition for Holmgrens pet .

Below is a response worthy of your take.........

SD:

Colt groupies don't have takes , they make excuses.




SoulDawg

[leadpipe]

The Jake Locker stuff is classic.

I'm not sure if people don't realize, aren't paying attention or what - but the University of Washington upgraded that position this year - by a big margin.

Possibly one of the most overrated cats I've ever seen.

Has a lot of what people want - big arm, linebacker mentality and all that bullshit, but at some point ya just gotta be good.

As a rule, guys that aren't that good in college don't succeed in the pros.

Someone want to roll the dice on that extremely rare chance, go ahead and shoot, me, no thanks.

SD:

Locker hurt his stock when he returned to College with a new coach and new system plus the risk of injury , and the scouts raising the focus on the microscope to 100 X , same as Lienhart hurt himself and the same risk Luck took and Barkley now must weather..

Locker has the ability and is more accurate on the run than when he was in the pocket which denotes bad footwork and not bringing your body to bear thru your throws but instead using your arm without leverage , thus passes will sail or inexplicably dive for the dirt.

Jake is the type who needs lots of reps , but he has the physical extraordinaire skills of a superb athlete who can impact a defense ala a rottenberger on just his physical gifts when a play breaks down.

I emphasized the point if you draft him Hasselabck must also be signed , which would have provided a tutor to both Locker and Colt and a QB capable of winning the games we threw away this year , while installing this offense and developing a receiving corp.

Tennessee followed this exact blueprint with the exact same personnel I outlined.

SoulDawg

Jake Locker did not hurt himself by coming back for his senior season. He had the same GD mediocre year, like the ones before. Everyone looking to make excuses for the guy cause he's an A+ athlete - this went on his entire career. Hard to find someone to come out and say the guy just wasn't that good.

Price this season, was a FAR better quarterback for UW than Locker was for ANY of his time there. Showed in the stats AND the win column.

As far as the guy "needing a lot of reps"...how the hell many more you gonna get than 4 years worth?

Again, somethimes it is what it is. If he's Superman, get him the hell in a phone booth, cause he'll help more people there than on the gridiron.

Footwork....accuracy....it's not like the guys been under incompetent eyes. If your waitin' for these things to get fixed, don't hold your breath.

Look, not my goal to bash Jake Locker - just that if you're looking for a guy to prove a point on some sort of "missed boat" there's better guys to hang your hat on.

Again, maybe Jake Loker turns out to be good, but the list of quarerbacks that were pretty mediocre - and consistently lost games at the college level, than turned out to be excellent pros, is much shorter than the list of guys that were consistently excellent in college, and went on to be excellent pros.

The old quarterback adage, "If he's not winning with his guys, he's not gonna win with yours," is pretty damned accurate.

[SoulDawg74]

The Jake Locker stuff is classic.

I'm not sure if people don't realize, aren't paying attention or what - but the University of Washington upgraded that position this year - by a big margin.

Possibly one of the most overrated cats I've ever seen.

Has a lot of what people want - big arm, linebacker mentality and all that bullshit, but at some point ya just gotta be good.

As a rule, guys that aren't that good in college don't succeed in the pros.

Someone want to roll the dice on that extremely rare chance, go ahead and shoot, me, no thanks.

SD:

Locker hurt his stock when he returned to College with a new coach and new system plus the risk of injury , and the scouts raising the focus on the microscope to 100 X , same as Lienhart hurt himself and the same risk Luck took and Barkley now must weather..

Locker has the ability and is more accurate on the run than when he was in the pocket which denotes bad footwork and not bringing your body to bear thru your throws but instead using your arm without leverage , thus passes will sail or inexplicably dive for the dirt.

Jake is the type who needs lots of reps , but he has the physical extraordinaire skills of a superb athlete who can impact a defense ala a rottenberger on just his physical gifts when a play breaks down.

I emphasized the point if you draft him Hasselabck must also be signed , which would have provided a tutor to both Locker and Colt and a QB capable of winning the games we threw away this year , while installing this offense and developing a receiving corp.

Tennessee followed this exact blueprint with the exact same personnel I outlined.

SoulDawg

Jake Locker did not hurt himself by coming back for his senior season. He had the same GD mediocre year, like the ones before. Everyone looking to make excuses for the guy cause he's an A+ athlete - this went on his entire career. Hard to find someone to come out and say the guy just wasn't that good.

Price this season, was a FAR better quarterback for UW than Locker was for ANY of his time there. Showed in the stats AND the win column.

As far as the guy "needing a lot of reps"...how the hell many more you gonna get than 4 years worth?

Again, somethimes it is what it is. If he's Superman, get him the hell in a phone booth, cause he'll help more people there than on the gridiron.

Footwork....accuracy....it's not like the guys been under incompetent eyes. If your waitin' for these things to get fixed, don't hold your breath.

Look, not my goal to bash Jake Locker - just that if you're looking for a guy to prove a point on some sort of "missed boat" there's better guys to hang your hat on.

Again, maybe Jake Loker turns out to be good, but the list of quarerbacks that were pretty mediocre - and consistently lost games at the college level, than turned out to be excellent pros, is much shorter than the list of guys that were consistently excellent in college, and went on to be excellent pros.

The old quarterback adage, "If he's not winning with his guys, he's not gonna win with yours," is pretty damned accurate.

SD:

Under the new CBA , Jake Locker had tremendous value , I maintained that position before the draft and reiterate it now .

he fucked himself with a double fist up his butt when he went back to school , and cost himself $40 million in guaranteed cash as opposed to coming out last yaer and getting 420 million guanted on a five year deal .

That was stupid , i said it then and say it again now .

The Tits exercised their discretion and took the value choice and hedged their bet with a competent vet , just like when they drafted McNair and Young and sat them .

Jake will pay dividends for the return on their investment which is more than we've gotten from any of our #1 picks let alone QB since 99 .

You fix that position your in the game .

The Browns didn't properly address it or correctly attack the opportunity when it was available and we suck as a result and still must redress what we failed to do last year this year .

period end of story .

Missing on QB at #1 is no longer the financial albatross it once was , butt the Browns ignorantly act like they're dealing with the plague .

The stupidity involved at such a high level reeks of staggering incompetent pompous arrogant hubris coming from the top way outta Heckerts pay grade .

Holmgren is playing catch up , he's not setting trends , or even coping the success of others he using a world war I plan to fight world war II.

A $ 2o million dollar wasted salary so far., with no QB insight from Uber guru.

SoulDawg

[Fire Marshall Bill]

There was no excuse the Browns in their position should have traded up for Newton and never considered the option and deliberately with purpose by passed all competition for Holmgrens pet .

Below is a response worthy of your take.........

SD:

Colt groupies don't have takes , they make excuses.




SoulDawg

Pointing out you're a redundant ass does not make one a Colt Pimp

It does make one a master of the obvious tho

You're like a festering puss oozing boil wherever and whenever you post, here and at obr

[SoulDawg74]

There was no excuse the Browns in their position should have traded up for Newton and never considered the option and deliberately with purpose by passed all competition for Holmgrens pet .

Below is a response worthy of your take.........

SD:

Colt groupies don't have takes , they make excuses.




SoulDawg

Pointing out you're a redundant ass does not make one a Colt Pimp

It does make one a master of the obvious tho

You're like a festering puss oozing boil wherever and whenever you post, here and at obr

SD:

what i am or what you think I am is not a take Jackass.

You offer nothing on this topic accept noise and redundant ignorance.

Where is all your we don't need a QB weak as take bullshit now , you fuckin clown.

Stay ourt of my way asshole or author a take worthy of reading .

Nobody has time for your stupid shit.

Colt aint the answer and never was and never will be.

This chapter is closed.

You lost , you were not only wrong you were utterly and stupendously stupidly wrong.

SoulDawg

[peeker643]

All over but Brad McCoy's shouting.

And why is there a voice in my head telling me if the Browns were the Bengals and in the same position Cincy is in that McCoy would surely be 'cleared' to play this Sunday and, in all likelihood, would have probably played last Sunday?

http://es.pn/ta4UR1