College Sports Arena

by **e0y2e3** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:30 pm

The strength coach plays a vital role in establishing that new mentality, especially when 6AMs are the first establishing of that base, that is all Furls and I are saying.

by **JCoz** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:47 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:The strength coach plays a vital role in establishing that new mentality, especially when 6AMs are the first establishing of that base, that is all Furls and I are saying.

And I understand that E0, and acknowledge it.

But there are countless examples crazy intense in your face offseason programs and S&C staffs that dont amount to a damn thing on Saturdays because of the coaching staff attitude and aptitude. Along with talent on the team.

And that's what I'm pointing out. Barwis was a great example, I doubt very much that our offseason will be dramatically more intense then RR's first year in AA. That amounted to squat.

Every single team on every level of football has S&C coaches. You can bet good money that ours will not be unique in thier delivery or program. I don't believe for a minute that we will have some S&C edge over every team in the country. All I'm saying is its a good hire, the change itself will be good and we will improve, but in the end, it just isnt a big deal. The mentality that you are going out there everyweek to destroy your oppoants is what the big difference is.

Its Meyer, its the assistants, at practice and on gameday.

Let me put this another way, lets say, Tress was here, fired Lichter and Hired Marotti.....what do you think the end result is?

In my opinion, its ends up the same damn way Lichter did, initial boost, and thats about it, because the assistants and HC are still coaching in the same way, with the same mentality towards gameplanning and play calling.

What we can do is correct some of the stale atmosphere that has been here the last couple seasons. And that is an extra little bit of improvement and I'll take every sliver we can get.

by **e0y2e3** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:52 pm

When a program getting stale and players becoming lax is the problem it makes a HUGE difference.

And who gives a fuck about a team coached by RR and the single worst defensive coordinator in the history of college football?

You are making facts that fit the national rule for universities. I'm talking distinctly about a singular instance, that Tressel Ball created a lax program and the S & C coach is the first line in changing that.

The rest of your argument is just fodder.

I'm not calling S & C coaches the end all be all, but in this singular instance he is a vital hire.

Not sure why you are trying to expand my point beyond exactly what it is.

by **JCoz** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:55 pm

So in your opinion would Marotti + Tressball = No difference?

by **e0y2e3** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:56 pm

In my opinion Tressel would want nothing to do with a intense and culture changing type S & C and that argument is stupid.

Again, I'm talking about this hire being vital BECAUSE OF THIS SITUATION.

Don't give a fuck about anything else.

by **JCoz** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:30 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:In my opinion Tressel would want nothing to do with a intense and culture changing type S & C and that argument is stupid.

Again, I'm talking about this hire being vital BECAUSE OF THIS SITUATION.

Don't give a fuck about anything else.

When I read about the last S&C hire Tres made, there is nothing to me that said he did that because he was not looking for culture changing S&C. Sounded the opposite way really.

No sense in continuing this if you are going to take your ball and go home instead of answering a simple question. You are talking about our specific situation and I'm saying its par for the course when you have a new staff coming into a talented but complacent roster that just came off horrendously dissappointing season.

I've yet to see a team focussed and determined to play or practice at or above thier heads with an interim HC.

6-6. I'm not sure there is one single part of this team that will not be dramatically improved by next season. The new S&C staff will be a part of it. This SPECIFIC S&C staff however, IMO is not as important as just having a new staff with a matched mindset of the new HC.

by **JCoz** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:34 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:He's been extremely quiet and shady about this entire staff hiring process.

Nothing was decided on Fickel for ages and then he randomly says "he's calling plays" without ever calling him DC.

And I didn't listen to that interview so I don't know if it was actually true. That aside, there is some super secrecy surrounding this entire staff building that is strange to say the least.

He was never obtuse about the fact that Fickell was on the staff though. And thats what he is saying with Vrabel, that he isn't even committing to hiring him.

by **e0y2e3** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:38 pm

JCoz wrote:IMO is not as important as just having a new staff with a matched mindset of the new HC.

I don't understand where you are missing the simple point that this guy is responsible for the first taste these kids are getting going from one of the most laid back coaches and programs in the NCAA to one of the most intense. These kids have a TON of adapting to do and he is the first to lay it down.

That is extremely important.

In the end is he going to be more important that the DC, no, but I'm not fucking saying that and you keep pretending like I am.

This team is about to have a real off-season and real Spring Football for the first time ever. The guy in charge of starting that shift is the S & C coach. That makes his role vital.

The fact that Tress hired essentially a for hire personal trainer fits into his mantra and the players got complacent with all of it (even in 2006, where they spent all winter getting fat before getting shit on).

I don't understand why you can't just accept that in this simple instance I'm making a simple fucking point about the next six months being vital and being the guy that gets the first crack and changing this culture is really fucking important.

by **JCoz** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:04 pm

Let me ask you one more question:What if Meyer couldn't get Marotti out of UF? Meyer couldn't get Marotti to come with him to Utah and UF is a great job, so its not totally out of the question.

Would you think that this offseason would be any less hellatious and brutal under Meyers 2nd choice? I think it would not. If you agree then we are debating nothing.

I agree its important, its vital, and it will make a big difference for next season. No arguments there.

What I'm saying however is that "Marotti" personally and specifically is not. We haven't just hired a magician who is one in a million, best S&C conditioning coach ever, will-squeeze-5% more-out-of-your-guys-than-anyone-in-the-country type superhire.

This is not neccessarily what YOU are saying, but it is a very popular mantra for new hires that you see all the time and you WILL see it soon here. In the spring there will be reports and thread after thread with Joe-OSU fan talking about how our new S&C guy is going to take us to the top of the mountain and beyond! .....and when OSU hires thier next S&C guy we will say Marotti was ok but check out this new shiny coach!

Remember that I didn't comment on what you said in this thread (on this specific topic), you commented on what I was saying. So I'm not trying at all to put words into your mouth.

by **e0y2e3** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:07 pm

No it wouldn't have been the end of the world.

But Meyer, getting his first choice and someone he has a relationship with, to kick off the evolution to his system is pretty awesome.

I don't understand your need to try and nitpick this simple fact.

You're arguing, literally, about nonsense.

Winter conditioning this year is going to be huge and Meyer got his hand picked guy, a guy that knows him and what he wants to do it.

If he had to pick someone else it wouldn't have been the end of the world. Just like him not landing his first choice at DC isn't the end of the world.

Good lord why are you even trying to argue in circles around this stupidly simple factual observation that relates to this exact situation.

by **e0y2e3** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:25 pm

On a less silly argument side:

http://twitter.com/#!/markpantoni

by **JCoz** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:53 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:No it wouldn't have been the end of the world.

But Meyer, getting his first choice and someone he has a relationship with, to kick off the evolution to his system is pretty awesome.

I don't understand your need to try and nitpick this simple fact.

You're arguing, literally, about nonsense.

Winter conditioning this year is going to be huge and Meyer got his hand picked guy, a guy that knows him and what he wants to do it.

If he had to pick someone else it wouldn't have been the end of the world. Just like him not landing his first choice at DC isn't the end of the world.

Good lord why are you even trying to argue in circles around this stupidly simple factual observation that relates to this exact situation.

I made a simple point, that this is a good hire for sure, but S&C coach/staff changes are overated and its a story that repeats itself over and over in coaching changes in CFB. And there is nothing you have said that changes my mind about that.

We are both being equally nitpicky about something inconsequential, and neither of us likes to give up the last word. Reread the exchange, if you aren't being just as stubborn as me then I can't read. Not sure why both of us not letting go of our point is me = arguing about nonesense and you = slapping down cold hard truths.

Forget about it. :dead:

Crack a beer, it is friday and all. I ain't mad, we both agree on whats about to happen this offseason, a wake up call and a foundation being laid for next spring and fall.

When we are kicking ass next season you can spread the credit around any way you like.

by **e0y2e3** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:50 pm

Fickel supposedly has a big Pitt offer, $10MM for 5.

by **JCoz** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:55 pm

They got desperate after ISU's guy stayed put. Wow though.

by **JCoz** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:15 pm

What do you guys think?

Honestly, I dont see how OSU will not be successful under Meyer and I think other opportunities will come. You won't ever get the chance to be an apprentice to Meyer again. I can't say what he should do, but if I were in his shoes I'd think I would stay for another year or two, learn from Meyer, expand my knowledge base beyond Tresselball and develop my HCing strategy for the next couple seasons.

Course, I'm not in Lukes shoes. JMO.

by **pup** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:44 pm

At no point does it make sense to turn down $10M for 5 years to be the head man at a BCS school.

I think it is a bad offer by Pitt, but if that is really the offer he has to go.

by **furls** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:45 pm

Tough call. Pitt is a pretty decent shot for Luke.

Downside is that I don't think you can really be successful there. Bear with me here, but I think a MAC job may be better based on expectations. I am not sure you can win enough games there and Pitt recruiting is tough although with the PSU troubles it may be easier.

Quick, name the last successful Pitt coach..... thought so.

by **pup** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:48 pm

furls wrote:Tough call. Pitt is a pretty decent shot for Luke.

Downside is that I don't think you can really be successful there. Bear with me here, but I think a MAC job may be better based on expectations. I am not sure you can win enough games there and Pitt recruiting is tough although with the PSU troubles it may be easier.

Quick, name the last successful Pitt coach..... thought so.

Hiring shitty coaches make it hard to be successful.

by **StewieG** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:03 am

God I hope Pitt hires Fat Urkel.

by **JCoz** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:54 am

furls wrote:Tough call. Pitt is a pretty decent shot for Luke.

Downside is that I don't think you can really be successful there. Bear with me here, but I think a MAC job may be better based on expectations. I am not sure you can win enough games there and Pitt recruiting is tough although with the PSU troubles it may be easier.

Quick, name the last successful Pitt coach..... thought so.

Agree Furls, and that's the bitch, he HAS to be successful to be worth it. Of you think he will be successfull, yah he should go, but if not its a bad move.

by **e0y2e3** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:20 am

This guy posted this on Scout before any actual reporters had broken the offer, so take his info for what you will, but that gives him at least some credence.

WinchesterBUCK wrote: Here are some bullet points:

- Luke has been offered the Pitt job and he has until tomorrow to accept (money is good)
- Luke does not get the warm and fuzzy feeling from Meyer, thinks Meyer is 'slick'
- Meyer has not told Luke his specific role on the coaching staff, even though Meyer said on the radio that Luke would call the defensive plays and be co-DC
- Luke's wife will play a big role in this. Going forward as a head coach: is she his wife or just the mother of his children
- Some people he has talked to think he stays because of the family thing, but this is going to be very close

IMHO, Luke is having a hard time accepting the fact he was not chosen as the HC and tOSU went with Meyer. I'm not sure they are going to work out as a 'team' if Luke can't get over this. I think he stays for now, but if he takes Pitt job, I would not be surprised at all. I got it 60/40 he stays, and only for family reasons.

by **e0y2e3** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:31 am

And my biggest worry in losing Luke relates to this recruiting class, where he is playing a huge role. Well, that and the fact that Vrable and Taver Johnson could very well follow him out, leaving us w/... no longer a full defensive staff.

by **pup** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:25 am

Luke leaving could open the door to Stoops as DC?

by **e0y2e3** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:39 pm

Stoops turned down OSU, not vice versa. Gotta think its because his kids are out west and he can get a job out there.

by **Triple-S** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:52 pm

StewieG wrote:God I hope Pitt hires Fat Urkel.

+1

I also hope that Gary Danielson gets taken from CBS and put back with musburger.

by **furls** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:25 am

Paul Cryst, Wisconsin OC, rumored to be taking the job. Word is that Fickell never even interviewed for the job.

by **e0y2e3** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:51 pm

Fickel denied interviewing to the Post Gazette but admitted he would and interest.

quotes actually read directly like Urban from a month ago.

The Gazette also said Cyst would interview, not that he took the job.

Still, five or six media people insisting Fickel was offered and has the weekend to decide.

by **JCoz** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:50 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Stoops turned down OSU, not vice versa. Gotta think its because his kids are out west and he can get a job out there.

I dont think so(RE:the reasoning), and I think he will prove it by taking an OOS job regardless. A plane ride away is a plane ride away.

by **e0y2e3** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:15 pm

No, a 2/3 hour plane ride is no more a 5 or 6 hour plane ride than a forty five minute car ride is a three hour car ride.

by **pup** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:12 am

RT @@sekrah From Laschout: Penn State D Line coach Larry Johnson has an offer from Urban Meyer to be OSU D Line coach if LJ leaves PSU.

by **e0y2e3** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:15 am

Yeah, saw that. WTF is Laschout.org? Seems rather fishy to say the least.

LJ Sr is one of my favorite coaches ever though. I used to camp at PSU every year in high school just for the chance to spend time with him and around him, he also has been PSU's best recruiter for years.

That said, he's well known for really, really, really being a negative recruiter, especially against OSU.

by **JCoz** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:09 am

Yah I'm not buying that source. Good coach, I've disliked him for years because of the way he recruits.

by **JCoz** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:40 am

e0y2e3 wrote:No, a 2/3 hour plane ride is no more a 5 or 6 hour plane ride than a forty five minute car ride is a three hour car ride.

As far as I'm concerned, once you are outside of an hour or two car ride, or and hour/hour and a half flight, its all the same. Thats from my experience traveling.

Columbus to Pheonix is 4.5 hours non-stop, that the plane ride could be 2.5 hours to Oklahoma city doesn't really make you much closer to your kids. Not like you could go pick them up from school because you are in Oklahoma City or Lincoln vs Columbus.

You are out of town so you clearly have your own travel experience to lean on.

Lincoln, Ok City and Columbus are all at least 900 miles away from Pheonix.

If he is an hour plane ride away in Cali, I'll buy that being closer to his kids was a factor, but not if he takes any of the jobs that are currently being talked about that I'm aware of.

by **e0y2e3** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:52 am

You're right Coz, in reality 5 hours is the same as three hours.

This is why when I need a weekend away instead of flying to DC or NYC I fly to Chicago often.

But whatever, I'm not arguing with you about something as fucking stupid as 5 hours being the same as 3 hours. Those four hours round trip certainly don't matter in the real world, especially for a quick two day trip.

by **JCoz** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:18 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:You're right Coz, in reality 5 hours is the same as three hours.

This is why when I need a weekend away instead of flying to DC or NYC I fly to Chicago often.

But whatever, I'm not arguing with you about something as fucking stupid as 5 hours being the same as 3 hours. Those four hours round trip certainly don't matter in the real world, especially for a quick two day trip.

I never said its the same amount of time, I essentially said it was the same hassle and requires all the same planning and I agree I'm not aguing over something this stupid. I haven't lived in Ohio for 12 years but I come home a lot, and that's my opinion when it comes to flights and being different distances from family. That's fine that you disagree. Christ almighty E0 chill the fuck out.

by **e0y2e3** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:20 pm

Meyer had a meeting this AM with a few media members. Confirms Johnson, Fickel and Drayton staying and officially that Vrable is being evaluated. Which is still really weird to me.

Also dropped this guy:

"** Said Mickey Marotti was "most important hire in athletic department" because Marotti will handle so many facets of program from players issues to motivation to preparation to strength and weight training. "I don't want to say I couldn't do this without him," Meyer said, "but it would be hard."

by **e0y2e3** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:22 pm

And this guy was good to:

** Said he is taking a hands-off approach toward bowl preparation. Said he will not travel to Jacksonville and might not even watch the game.

** Wants to reserve all opinions until he gets the players into his system. "We want to put them into situations where we can evaluate them," he said. "And I'm not talking about bench presses." Said when his staff is in place, "We want to be a hurricane when we hit."

(quotes and work done by Mak Rae w/ BSB)

by **JCoz** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:25 pm

Yeah I was actually about to post that, including the "most important hire" part. I'm sure he is someone very important to Meyer and will do a great job for us.

What was also in there was a confirmation that Fickel interviewed with Pitt, for those that were looking for something confirming that it actually happened. Obviously the offer is still unconfirmed and its likely soon going to be moot, however I would like to know whether or not he had an offer.

by **e0y2e3** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:30 pm

I doubt we ever know to be honest. Even if the offer was there, if he turned it down (supposedly he had only the weekend) I expect him, Urban and Pitt to bury it.

I mean Fickel tried to deny even having the damned interview.

by **e0y2e3** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:38 pm

Here is a link that isn't behind a paywall (peedee) to the details of the Meyer Morning Meeting:

http://bit.ly/u9GUHt

by **furls** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:50 pm

furls wrote:
danwismar wrote:The hire of Mickey Marotti as OSU strength and conditioning coach was made official today:

http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/sports ... 11aaa.html

In fact, the title he was given is "Assistant Athletic Director for Football Sports Performance"

Classy.

There's some more stuff on Marotti linked in my latest article on front page today.

I LOVE THIS HIRE! IMO this is the second best hire tOSU has done since the season ended. The players just did not look that athletic (in general) under Lichter, hell I wrote earlier this year that I though the LBs looked a little umm..... "unchiseled;" they did not look like elite athletes in their prime. The OL has been getting soft too.

Mariotti has a track record of proven performance and I expect to see some players get reborn through the offseason (I also expect that some will not survive the offseason).

Wow, it is almost like Meyer read my post. Maybe I should charge him a premium membership fee to know my opinions re: OSU football (Ill give him the basketball stuff for free).

by **JCoz** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:19 pm

http://www.sectalk.com/board/topic/82305-urban-meyer-on-florida-the-program-is-broken/

Looking for the Bull Gator booster/Meyer issues, I came across this thread, its interesting to read some things on the other side of the fence, they had some things in there about Marotti.

All grain of salt type stuff, realizing that these fans are pretty bitter over meyer.

by **e0y2e3** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:57 pm

Urban finally admits to hiring Vrable and Withers.

by **e0y2e3** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:31 pm

Most interesting aspect.... Withers is assistant HC.

by **peeker643** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:30 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Most interesting aspect.... Withers is assistant HC.

Well, we kind of figured Fickell's role was as much honorary as it is legitimate. He got a two year, $750k 'Thank You' and guarantee which, I believe, was the right thing for them to do.

I personally never saw him being a long term fix with OSU and Meyer but he now does have an opportunity to interview elsewhere, make big bucks AND potentially burrow his way into Meyer's heart (so to speak).

My bet is still that he leaves but if he had an offer at Pitt and refused... well, he was either scarred or scared by his OSU HC experience. Not sure the iron will ever be as hot for him at a 'major' program.

by **e0y2e3** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:33 pm

You're forgetting the family issue. All reports out of C-Bus are that his wife played a HUGE role in him staying with Meyer and in the Pitt thing if it was what it was.

She's really, really, really happy there.

by **JCoz** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:55 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Urban finally admits to hiring Vrabel and Withers.

So you still really think he was always sold on Vrabel?

I kind of think that he was at LEAST hedging his bets if he went other directions with Withers spot (meaning if withers got a HC gig really) and it didn't make sense to keep Vrabel on.

Withers is a Secondary guy, I definitely think there were scenarios in play where Vrabel ended up a casualty.

Not that it matters. I still like the idea of Vrabel as LBer coach, but I definitely still on the fence as to whether he'll actually be a good coach at the college level.

by **gnati** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:14 am

JCoz wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Urban finally admits to hiring Vrabel and Withers.

So you still really think he was always sold on Vrabel?

absofreakinglutly.

i said it before, it made less than zero sense to have vrabel on point the way he was in the recruiting process these last few weeks if he wasnt sticking around. why in gods green earth would you have him as point of contact for a recruit you want if you either thought or gknew he was leaving makes no freaking sense what so ever...

put another way, haven't seen any of the other coaches that arent staying around doing any recruiting what so ever.

but that is just me.

I

by **e0y2e3** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:47 am

Yep, been trying to tell Coz that for ages.

by **JCoz** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:04 am

Well what no even comes close to making a good point toward is why the charade JUST for Vrabs, none of the other coaches?

No one else was being evaluated, either you were never in consideration (Most offensive coaches, Heacock, Haynes), definitely had a spot (Fickel, Drayton, Johnson) or......."we're still thinking about it"

Meyer treated all questions toward Vrabel completely and totally differently from all other coaches. He announced new hires i Herman, that certain coaches would stay on....and here is Vrabs being singled out as "maybe"...

Again, I really dont care, its just not that important, but no has anything other than the fact that he was still recruiting. Ok, fine, so why not just say he was being retained from the start?

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