Cleveland Browns & The NFL

by **motherscratcher** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:34 pm

McCoy is looking more done as the Browns QB every day. This leaves a few options going forward. The options in the draft have been discussed ad nauseum. Luck is out. Barkley is (IMO) an underwhelming option. RG3 seems pretty high on everyone's list but is looking more and more unobtainable.

The most likely options as I see them:

1. Stick with McCoy
2. Trade up to draft RG3
3. Draft Barkley
4. Hope that RG3 falls to you and sign a FA if he doesn't.

That FA is almost always begins and ends with Matt Flynn.

Matt Flynn went to LSU, was drafted in the 7th round, and has spent 4 seasons backing up Aaron Rogers. That is the totality of everything I know about the guy.

But, with RG3 screaming up draft boards, maybe it's time to get to know a little more.

So, WHY is this guy considered such a hot commodity? What has he done that is so impressive?

by **FUDU** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:44 pm

motherscratcher wrote:McCoy is looking more done as the Browns QB every day. This leaves a few options going forward. The options in the draft have been discussed ad nauseum. Luck is out. Barkley is (IMO) an underwhelming option. RG3 seems pretty high on everyone's list but is looking more and more unobtainable.

The most likely options as I see them:

1. Stick with McCoy
2. Trade up to draft RG3
3. Draft Barkley
4. Hope that RG3 falls to you and sign a FA if he doesn't.

That FA is almost always begins and ends with Matt Flynn.

Matt Flynn went to LSU, was drafted in the 7th round, and has spent 4 seasons backing up Aaron Rogers. That is the totality of everything I know about the guy.

But, with RG3 screaming up draft boards, maybe it's time to get to know a little more.

So, WHY is this guy considered such a hot commodity? What has he done that is so impressive?

Nothing. But in today's world that is all it takes I guess.

Seriously, why Matt Flynn (not directed at you Mo) but the guy is a nobody, totally meh bleh feh.

I'd rather keep Colt, we know what he can and most likely can't do.

by **motherscratcher** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:46 pm

Yeah, that's what I'm wondering. He gets mentioned all of the time but I have no idea why.

by **FUDU** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:47 pm

Only thing I can think of is his LSU days and the NC he won and how relevant that is in the NFL, or the fact that he is the back up to the best QB in the game (which to some must mean he can play or something).

Personally I think he sold me a washer or dryer once.

:shrug

by **mistero** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:51 pm

He's not very big, 6'2 225lbs age 26.

Preseason stats:
2011 22/40 ,55% completion, 2TD/1INT 86.6 rating
2010 50/85, 58.8%,2 td/2INT 77.7 rating
2009 6/8 ,75.0%,0 td/0Int, 97.4 rating
2008 27/42, 64.3%, 3TD/0INT, 100.2 Rating

Knows the offense, moves well, mediocre arm.

I don't see starter potential.

by **JCoz** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:00 pm

Why is Barkley unattractive to many on this board?

by **motherscratcher** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:40 pm

JCoz wrote:Why is Barkley unattractive to many on this board?

Truthfully, I have no good reason. Just a gut feeling, which I understand is (and should be) worth less than half a shit. I'm ready to be convinced on him.

by **FUDU** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:52 pm

JCoz wrote:Why is Barkley unattractive to many on this board?

B/C the board is most male?

Seriously though I'd rather draft him than try to get Flynn in FA.

by **e0y2e3** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:10 pm

JCoz wrote:Why is Barkley unattractive to many on this board?

Accuracy, especially on deep balls is the biggest issue.

I don't think he'd be the end of the world, but I don't know if he is a top ten pick or a franchise changer.

Sign a cheap fuckstick like Flynn rather than drafting Brady Quinn II.

by **e0y2e3** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:10 pm

mistero, you are officially the last football fan in America obsessed with QB height.

by **e0y2e3** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:21 pm

*and I will admit, I am damn torn on Barkley.

by **Madre Hill, Superstar** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:01 pm

motherscratcher wrote:So, WHY is this guy considered such a hot commodity? What has he done that is so impressive?

He didn't Hanie the place up the once or twice he filled in for Rodgers, which likely makes him the best free agent QB available next year.

by **Hikohadon** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:58 pm

I saw him play exactly one game (against NE last year) and he was pretty good in that.

That, of course, means absolutely nothing long term, since every schmoe we've had in here has looked good for one NFL game. Some for two.

The fact that he's had 4 years to learn the system is a big plus, though.

by **JCoz** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:47 pm

Too many people could qualify under those couple points to break the bank on Flynn. What's the market going to be like on him?

by **FUDU** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:57 pm

Hikohadon wrote:I saw him play exactly one game (against NE last year) and he was pretty good in that.

That, of course, means absolutely nothing long term, since every schmoe we've had in here has looked good for one NFL game. Some for two.

The fact that he's had 4 years to learn the system is a big plus, though.

But what does that mean really? Nothing, b/c he has a fairly complete offense around him so he should look decent at least?

Plus, Colt looked good against NE last year as well.

by **peeker643** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:00 pm

FUDU wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:I saw him play exactly one game (against NE last year) and he was pretty good in that.

That, of course, means absolutely nothing long term, since every schmoe we've had in here has looked good for one NFL game. Some for two.

The fact that he's had 4 years to learn the system is a big plus, though.

But what does that mean really? Nothing, b/c he has a fairly complete offense around him so he should look decent at least?

Plus, Colt looked good against NE last year as well.

Didn't Hiko say exactly that in his very next effing sentence?

by **FUDU** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:05 pm

I read that as Hiko specifying NE as if they were some sort of litmus test.

BTW CDT is looking for you in NHB, chop chop.

by **pup** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:35 pm

Because GB seems to be a hell of a lot better at evaluating QB than we are, so whoever they took > whoever we would?

by **Hikohadon** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:19 am

FUDU wrote:I read that as Hiko specifying NE as if they were some sort of litmus test.

BTW CDT is looking for you in NHB, chop chop.

Nah, that was just throwing out there which game I'd seen. The Pats don't/didn't have a pass D of note.

by **e0y2e3** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:26 am

No, right now I struggle to not put Barkley ahead of Jones in terms of intelligence but not far ahead of Quinn. That is second tier to me. That said I am 100% torn on the kid as a prospect and will trust whatever Heckert decides (not what Walrus does).

by **e0y2e3** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:28 am

Oh and I only support Flynn as a stop gap, not an elite end all be all QB. I'd almost say (if we don't think Barkley is elite) to just throw whoever out there and suck again.

by **FUDU** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:00 pm

I'm down with Flynn as ONLY a stop gap, even though they are not allowed nor never will openly admit that. However at that point just use Seneca if that is the plan. I'd say use Colt (and I believe that will be what ultimately happens) but then they run the risk of what if they are half way decent, how do they spin that?

Pup has a point though.

Just lose baby!

by **mitch** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:57 pm

FUDU wrote:I'm down with Flynn as ONLY a stop gap, even though they are not allowed nor never will openly admit that. However at that point just use Seneca if that is the plan. I'd say use Colt (and I believe that will be what ultimately happens) but then they run the risk of what if they are half way decent, how do they spin that?

Pup has a point though.

Just lose baby!

So if you're OK with Flynn as a stop-gap...why not go with a more "proven" FA such as Orton, Jason Campbell, or Matt Moore (who I THINK is a FA at the end of the year)?

I just don't know if there is enough knowledge about Flynn to say that he'd be better than any of these three...but Walrus may know more as he was able to identify Favre and Hasselbeck as bench warmers who could become 'the man'.

We might know more in two weeks. I think the Pack will sit Rodgers for the entire Lions game if they can somehow beat the Caleb Heine led Bears this week (snark intended), so we'll see Flynn for the whole game against the Lions.

by **FUDU** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:50 pm

I'd be OK with Orton b/c IMO Orton can win some games for you, even though the risk of him losing some is there as well.

But at that point IMO we might be better served with Colt as a stop gap if the FO/staff feel the team is behind Colt. My thing is this, if we're still going to be in search of THE QB to lead this team to the ultimate level of success then why not maintain some stability in the process until we find that guy.

If we cannot get one of the top two QBs in this draft IMO we scrap the idea of a QB upgrade this season and draft defense and pick up a WR & RB in FA to at least improve the offense a little bit in hopes that Colt can work with that talent.

by **Hikohadon** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:05 pm

Anyone have any thoughts on Joe Webb?

by **e0y2e3** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:12 pm

Can we just keep Colt, sacrifice him for another year and draft in the top five again if we don't get a QB?

by **Triple-S** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:15 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Can we just keep Colt, sacrifice him for another year and draft in the top five again if we don't get a QB?

There has to be some sort of team like the Rams who'd gladly take a pair of First Rounders for the right to Draft RG3 IMO.

I'd support that.

Just got to pray Minnesota and St. Louis think that Ponder and Bradford are guys to give another year with.

by **peeker643** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:31 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Can we just keep Colt, sacrifice him for another year and draft in the top five again if we don't get a QB?

Only if he becomes devout.

by **Gradysmanldy** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:31 pm

peeker643 wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Can we just keep Colt, sacrifice him for another year and draft in the top five again if we don't get a QB?

Only if he becomes devout.

Better idea: Tell him to bulk up about 25 pounds, give him a better set of pads, and have him run the zone-read. I hear that's the new thing in the NFL.

by **jta1975** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:22 am

Without a doubt Flynn is an explorable option if you believe in building a full roster....this year with a real free agency period you will begin to see a team's vision more clearly.

You don't get very many chances at getting 3 of the top 36 players in the draft. Imagine how the roster starts looking with another Joe Haden caliber of player(top 6 talent)..another Phil Taylor(about where ATL is slotted to pick)...and Jabaal Sheard (top of second round)...add Flynn and even if he is only "Matt Hasselback", the TEAM is heading in the right direction pretty quickly.

Skill wise Flynn is probably only slightly above average but the time in the WCO watching two great QBs do it is invaluable.

by **jta1975** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:26 am

I won't argue against the guys who insist on RG3...you can ask Peeker I had RG3 in my top 3 after the second week in the college season once I saw the improvement of his mechanics and touch.

by **peeker643** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:56 am

jta1975 wrote:I won't argue against the guys who insist on RG3...you can ask Peeker I had RG3 in my top 3 after the second week in the college season once I saw the improvement of his mechanics and touch.

Yep... I've mentioned that in a few threads.

Still, I'd rather have a Hasselbeck or Hasselbeck-lite next season and use those picks exactly as you noted. On BPA. You can can potentially get you another elite guy at 3/4 and exactly what you mentioned w/Atlanta pick.

I'm actually hoping Luck and RGIII are gone when the Browns pick so they can't mess something up or overthink. I wouldn't be pissed at all with QB at 4 but I'd almost rather use the 'elite' #4 pick on an unquestionably 'elite' player.

TFotM will be there next year as well at the QB position. RGIII reminds of the hot, new Christmas toy that everyone heard about in October and now can't live without. They'll shank their grandmother to get one knowing another comes out same time every year.

Whatev, I guess.

Just need to get appreciably better by the end of April. That's how I'll judge and criticize. I don't give a shit if people here don't like HOW they got better. If they get appreciably better I'm good.

by **Hikohadon** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:32 am

At the very least, the Chiefs did us a big favor last week by beating the Pack and making it much more likely that Flynn gets serious playing time (against 1st string D's, no less) in the last 2 games.

by **e0y2e3** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:39 am

I've been on the RGIII bandwagon all year Peeks, so eat me.

Week one I was posting in here and getting treated like I was talking out my asshole.

And week one after I posted on him you did bring up jta saying the same things as me.

If the Browns get RGIII they'll be relevant again. That's reason enought to take him.

And while you are right, there will be a bright new shiny toy next year, that combo of athleticism and passing ability is extremely rare.

by **motherscratcher** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:06 pm

peeker643 wrote:TFotM will be there next year as well at the QB position. RGIII reminds of the hot, new Christmas toy that everyone heard about in October and now can't live without. They'll shank their grandmother to get one knowing another comes out same time every year.

That's not the problem though. TFotM will be there every year, just like you said. The question is, will the Browns be in a position to take TFotM? With the #4 pick this year, and a second 1st rounder, we are in a strong position to get the guy that we want this year. I don't know when we are going to have this opportunity again.

by **Hikohadon** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:12 pm

motherscratcher wrote:That's not the problem though. TFotM will be there every year, just like you said. The question is, will the Browns be in a position to take TFotM? With the #4 pick this year, and a second 1st rounder, we are in a strong position to get the guy that we want this year. I don't know when we are going to have this opportunity again.

We have a winner.

As bad as the Browns usually are, the league is filled with bad teams. It's difficult to be bad enough to get a Top 4 pick. If you're there and a franchise-type QB is available and you don't have one...

by **Fire Marshall Bill** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:42 pm

Sigh.....

Is there some kind of rule that says a quality QB needs to be drafted in the first 4 picks?

I mean, I get the Browns Fan Angst to grab RG but, in the end it all boils down to good scouting, yes?

FTR, I'm also in the camp that says neither Minny or St Looney are interested in RG...4th IS the majic number

Go Jags!....who, with a new actively involved owner, will not lay down for a draft spot vs Indy, who will

JMHO

::doh::

by **peeker643** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:38 pm

You're not the majority though, Lee. And thank Christ for that. :thumb up:

And if the Browns get RGIII they'll be relevant where? Nationally? Only for a year if he's just the TFotM and not more. They'll be relevant for a decade if they get the right guy, whomever that is. Whether they trade away everything they own for RGIII or whether they find an elite guy in the flow of the draft or next year is all dependent on the guy they get being 'the guy'.

They're always relevant (or least blindly supported) here, though. I know this because you bitch about it hourly ;-) ;) :wink:

I agree RGIII is a gifted athlete and extremely intriguing. No argument at all.

e0y2e3 wrote:I've been on the RGIII bandwagon all year Peeks, so eat me.

Week one I was posting in here and getting treated like I was talking out my asshole.

And week one after I posted on him you did bring up jta saying the same things as me.

If the Browns get RGIII they'll be relevant again. That's reason enought to take him.

And while you are right, there will be a bright new shiny toy next year, that combo of athleticism and passing ability is extremely rare.

by **e0y2e3** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:47 pm

It's not my fault Browns fans are the lemmings of the sports world.

by **Hikohadon** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:50 pm

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:Sigh.....

Is there some kind of rule that says a quality QB needs to be drafted in the first 4 picks?

I mean, I get the Browns Fan Angst to grab RG but, in the end it all boils down to good scouting, yes?

FTR, I'm also in the camp that says neither Minny or St Looney are interested in RG...4th IS the majic number

Go Jags!....who, with a new actively involved owner, will not lay down for a draft spot vs Indy, who will

JMHO

I think waiting around to the 3rd or 4th round and hoping that you are genius enough to see the awesome QB still out there that every other team missed results in you drafting... Colt McCoy. Again.

Are there examples of later round QB's turning out fantastic? Sure.

But the percentage of hits is WAY lower than misses.

If you want a QB with a real shot to be a franchise, your odds are much higher if you get one in the 1st (or top of the 2nd, at the very latest).

Almost the worst thing I can imagine is drafting Colt McCoy II this year and then waste another 2 years "figuring out" that he's just another meh.

There's no guarantee that a 1st round QB will be successful, and there's no guarantee that a 4th round QB will be a failure. But if you want a hooker without VD, is it a safer bet to look for one in Vegas or Bangkok?

by **Fire Marshall Bill** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:42 pm

I'm not saying 3rd or 4th round, I'm talking about the middle of the first, Flacco?, top of the 2nd, Dalton

by **pup** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:58 am

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:I'm not saying 3rd or 4th round, I'm talking about the middle of the first, Flacco?, top of the 2nd, Dalton

Exhibit A and B of good enough to get you close, but will never be good enough to get it done.

by **SoulDawg74** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 12:04 pm

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:I'm not saying 3rd or 4th round, I'm talking about the middle of the first, Flacco?, top of the 2nd, Dalton

SD:

Yeah your talking and saying nothing , just squawking the same white noise.

A top five pick is used to grab a franchise type player , if you have a QB you grab the next available franchise talent or move down if none is available .

If you have Charlie Mccoy imitating an NFL signal caller Seneca Nation , and a kid who has but preseason and practice reps incubating in the oven , you grab the Franchise QB and the most valuable piece off the board filling the most important position in football .

If your FMB , you keep insisting the World is flat , and uttering nonsense you can't support in any form or fashion with the same blissful ignorance.

SoulDawg

by **Fire Marshall Bill** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:03 pm

Yeah your talking and saying nothing , just squawking the same white noise

Never figured you for a racist little bitch but, its not the first time I've been wrong and won't be the last

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