McCoy Era Over with Browns

[peeker643]

Read between the lines in Heckert press conference:

We want Dawson back.
We want D'Qwell back.
We'll evaluate Colt at end of year.
Do you have enough to evaluate him w/o receivers and OL- Yes.

So you can evaluate him but won't say you want him back?

And Holmgren hasn't spoken to the QB?

Gone.

Unofficially official.

[Hikohadon]

Read between the lines in Heckert press conference:

We want Dawson back.
We want D'Qwell back.
We'll evaluate Colt at end of year.
Do you have enough to evaluate him w/o receivers and OL- Yes.

And Holmgren hasn't spoken to the QB?

Gone.

Unofficially official.

Totally untrue.

Colt will be back next year. He'll just be the backup.

[peeker643]

Negative. Seneca will be the backup. Especially after he acquits himself as such the next 3 weeks where McCoy won't play.

[e0y2e3]

I can't wait to see who the next QB the Browns draft that signs some shitty endorsement deal because they were adorkable in college and then washes out is.

[Lubber]

Harrison did us all a big favor by knocking out Colt. Now we can go after RG3 and use the reasoning, "Colt has not been the same since his concussion"

[e0y2e3]

Seriously, did Chuckles have any endorsement deals?

Because if he did, him + Quinn + McCoy has to be a unprecedented level of suck getting paid advertising $$$$.

[Hikohadon]

Negative. Seneca will be the backup. Especially after he acquits himself as such the next 3 weeks where McCoy won't play.

Yeah, maybe. If he can't even beat out Seneca, then what use is he?

I guess they could get a 6th rounder for him, maybe.

Can't wait for the Brad McCoy public meltdown if that happens.

The track record for QB's that the Browns gave up on isn't very good. It's like a career death sentence.

Which doesn't mean that there won't be some yahoo that will be telling us how the Browns are making a huge mistake and he hopes that Colt goes to another team and kicks the Browns' ass because he wasn't treated fairly. Wah.

[Hikohadon]

Seriously, did Chuckles have any endorsement deals?

Because if he did, him + Quinn + McCoy has to be a unprecedented level of suck getting paid advertising $$$$.

Don't forget Kelly Holcomb and his line of sauce products.

[Prosecutor]

Dawson is in his 13th season with the Browns and is still going strong, having kicked 4-5 field goals over 50 yards. Jackson has played 62 games with the Browns and has 125 tackles and 3.5 sacks this year. It's not too hard to figure out that these guys are productive.

McCoy is in his first season as the full-time starting QB. He's working with a new offense that relies heavily on timing and his receivers lead the league in dropped passes. I don't think it's a done deal that the McCoy era is "over".

But I agree it's not looking good when Holmgren says that Shurmur will definitely be back but McCoy will be evaluated at the end of the season.

[GodHatesClevelandSport]

Read between the lines in Heckert press conference:


Do you have enough to evaluate him w/o receivers and OL- Yes.

This is the most telling line. I agree he's done. No way they don't draft a QB or pick up one in free agency (Flynn?).

Anyone know who the third-string QB is? After Seneca inevitably gets hurt, he'll be in the last couple of games.

[Sea Foam Green]

Don't you think it's just political posturing so he doesn't back himself into a corner on the draft? I mean, it is a pretty deep year for QB's. Maybe he wants to wait and see if he'll have a shot at Luck or RG3. Maybe he likes one of the 2nd tier guys and wants to do a little more research.

Point is, now he can draft a QB and say they didn't like Colt's evaluation, or they can not draft a QB and say Colt's evaluation was sterling. If he says, right now, that he is or isn't going with Colt, one of those doors closes.

[Hikohadon]

Dawson is in his 13th season with the Browns and is still going strong, having kicked 4-5 field goals over 50 yards. Jackson has played 62 games with the Browns and has 125 tackles and 3.5 sacks this year. It's not too hard to figure out that these guys are productive.

McCoy is in his first season as the full-time starting QB. He's working with a new offense that relies heavily on timing and his receivers lead the league in dropped passes. I don't think it's a done deal that the McCoy era is "over".

But I agree it's not looking good when Holmgren says that Shurmur will definitely be back but McCoy will be evaluated at the end of the season.

I remember before the Steelers game that one of the NFL Network reporters talked to Holmgren on the sidelines about McCoy and that he said something along the lines of "We HOPE he's the guy, but if he isn't you keep taking QB's until you get the guy."

Which I agree with, and I think that was a lukewarm endorsement from Holmgren, kind of along the lines of Elway's endorsements of the Chosen One.

[jerryroche]

What is it about Holmgren that makes everyone think he could admit he was wrong about McCoy but will not admit being wrong about Shurmur?

I think McCoy sticks. If the Browns have the opportunity to take one of the Big Three collegiate QBs with their high first-round choice, they'll grab him. But packaging numerous picks to take one of the Big Three is just not very smart, given glaring needs elsewhere. (Of course, how many times can we say that the front office has been "smart" in the past 13 years?)

Admittedly, this is a talent-rich draft in QBs. But that doesn't mean that it won't necessarily be talent-rich at that position in Year 3 or 4 of the "rebuild." If the Browns continue to stock-pile future draft picks as they have the last couple of years, they could put themselves in great position to eventually get their man—if they even think they need him after Colt's rating goes up to 90+ with some talent around him next season!

[Hikohadon]

What is it about Holmgren that makes everyone think he could admit he was wrong about McCoy but will not admit being wrong about Shurmur?

I think McCoy sticks. If the Browns have the opportunity to take one of the Big Three collegiate QBs with their high first-round choice, they'll grab him. But packaging numerous picks to take one of the Big Three is just not very smart, given glaring needs elsewhere. (Of course, how many times can we say that the front office has been "smart" in the past 13 years?)

Admittedly, this is a talent-rich draft in QBs. But that doesn't mean that it won't necessarily be talent-rich at that position in Year 3 or 4 of the "rebuild." If the Browns continue to stock-pile future draft picks as they have the last couple of years, they could put themselves in great position to eventually get their man—if they even think they need him after Colt's rating goes up to 90+ with some talent around him next season!

I don't think he thinks he was "wrong" about McCoy. McCoy was a late 3rd Rounder, the odds are against a QB picked that low ending up a franchise-type guy. If McCoy did end up being "the guy" then Holmgren is a genius. If he's not, well, it's to be expected.

Shurmur on the other hand was his hand-picked guy. There's no draft in coaching searches. If the coach you choose goes to shit, it reflects MUCH more poorly on you then a late 3rd rd QB that didn't cut it.

Thus, Holmgren's ego will not allow that admission.

[JCoz]

Well I think Holmgren always seemed to have several QB's competing on the roster.

Before or right after Favre got the starting gig, they had Brunell (and even Warner for a cup of coffee) and there was a split among the coaches as to whether Brunell should get the starting job.

Putting your hand down and forcing a 3rd round pick for McCoy doesn't exactly belong in the same type of catagory as the guy you picked and handed a HC job to. That is a decision he had to get right. I think Holmrgen is well aware that some third round pick he fully intended to hand a clipboard to for at least his first year here wasn't probably going to be the only one he drafted to compete for franchise QB of the Browns.

[jerryroche]

Thanks for reminding me that Colt was no first-rounder, Hiko and JCoz. I get your rationale now. Good point.

[Govbarney]

I predict Colt still starts next year with either Barkley or RG3 breathing down his neck as the back up.

[Ziner]

Seriously, did Chuckles have any endorsement deals?

Because if he did, him + Quinn + McCoy has to be a unprecedented level of suck getting paid advertising $$$$.

http://www.bonelady.com/downloads.php

Don't know how to post a quicktime video.... but I am sure you would love this mcdonalds commericial. Big Dawg, Bonelady, Braylon and....Frye.

[Hikohadon]

Don't you think it's just political posturing so he doesn't back himself into a corner on the draft? I mean, it is a pretty deep year for QB's. Maybe he wants to wait and see if he'll have a shot at Luck or RG3. Maybe he likes one of the 2nd tier guys and wants to do a little more research.

Point is, now he can draft a QB and say they didn't like Colt's evaluation, or they can not draft a QB and say Colt's evaluation was sterling. If he says, right now, that he is or isn't going with Colt, one of those doors closes.

Personally, I'd be saying how much I think Colt has grown and how much we like Colt, etc. etc., everything short of guaranteeing him the starting job next year.

This would be done to maybe keep QB needy teams from trading up ahead of me to steal RG3/Barkley. If they think I'm married to Colt, they might be more apt to wait.

[JCoz]

Hasn't Holmgren been pretty frank with these draft type ?'s though? For better or worse....

[Spin]

It's simple. If Career Backup Wallace is better than Colt, the Browns really need to draft a QB.

[motherscratcher]

Don't you think it's just political posturing so he doesn't back himself into a corner on the draft? I mean, it is a pretty deep year for QB's. Maybe he wants to wait and see if he'll have a shot at Luck or RG3. Maybe he likes one of the 2nd tier guys and wants to do a little more research.

Point is, now he can draft a QB and say they didn't like Colt's evaluation, or they can not draft a QB and say Colt's evaluation was sterling. If he says, right now, that he is or isn't going with Colt, one of those doors closes.

Personally, I'd be saying how much I think Colt has grown and how much we like Colt, etc. etc., everything short of guaranteeing him the starting job next year.

This would be done to maybe keep QB needy teams from trading up ahead of me to steal RG3/Barkley. If they think I'm married to Colt, they might be more apt to wait.

Or maybe, Holmgren knows that the other GMs know that Holmgren would say he likes Colt if he wanted to draft a QB. But, if the other GMs know that Holmgren knows that they know what he would say, then they wouldnt be fooled by his ruse and trade up to steal RG3. But I thnk Holmgren is smarter than that. Which leads to only 1 obvious conclusion...

[Hikohadon]

It's simple. If Career Backup Wallace is better than Colt, the Browns really need to draft a QB.

I'd say they probably need to draft a QB regardless, but, yeah, if Wallace is better then that clinches it.

Please don't win, Seneca! Lose by 2, 38-36. That would debunk the McCoy myth while still providing the necessary draft position.

Course, then people would be saying we don't need a QB, Wallace is good enough, you don't really know what you have in him until you get him some WR's and a RT... some people will do almost anything to get out of picking a QB high.

[JCoz]

Or maybe, Holmgren knows that the other GMs know that Holmgren would say he likes Colt if he wanted to draft a QB. But, if the other GMs know that Holmgren knows that they know what he would say, then they wouldnt be fooled by his ruse and trade up to steal RG3. But I thnk Holmgren is smarter than that. Which leads to only 1 obvious conclusion...

Inconceivable!

[Hikohadon]

Or maybe, Holmgren knows that the other GMs know that Holmgren would say he likes Colt if he wanted to draft a QB. But, if the other GMs know that Holmgren knows that they know what he would say, then they wouldnt be fooled by his ruse and trade up to steal RG3. But I thnk Holmgren is smarter than that. Which leads to only 1 obvious conclusion...

The Killing was an atrocious show?

[FUDU]

Or maybe, Holmgren knows that the other GMs know that Holmgren would say he likes Colt if he wanted to draft a QB. But, if the other GMs know that Holmgren knows that they know what he would say, then they wouldnt be fooled by his ruse and trade up to steal RG3. But I thnk Holmgren is smarter than that. Which leads to only 1 obvious conclusion...

It's like Ralph telling Norton that he knows that Norton knows that Ralph knows that Norton wants to fuck Ralph up the ass.

[peeker643]

Don't you think it's just political posturing so he doesn't back himself into a corner on the draft? I mean, it is a pretty deep year for QB's. Maybe he wants to wait and see if he'll have a shot at Luck or RG3. Maybe he likes one of the 2nd tier guys and wants to do a little more research.

Point is, now he can draft a QB and say they didn't like Colt's evaluation, or they can not draft a QB and say Colt's evaluation was sterling. If he says, right now, that he is or isn't going with Colt, one of those doors closes.

I don't, SFG.

Just reading the tea leaves and with the information they are giving us, I think dude is gone.

I'd be willing to bet he is.

I'd be willing to bet he doesn't play another game this year, I'd be willing to bet a wee part of it is Walrus sending a loud message to Brad McCoy (and the locker room) and I'd be willing to bet Colt is part of a draft day deal for whatever they can get for him.

Hopefully that's something. I still some value in a kid that's started 15-18 games and has played alright in a fucked up situation.

I also will not be shocked if McCoy has some success wherever he ends up and that's something I never said about guys like DA or Frye, etc.

Just how I see it. Obviously YMMV

[e0y2e3]

Drafting a second teir QB would be the most Browns thing ever.

[Erie Warrior]

Drafting a second teir QB would be the most Browns thing ever.

Yes. Barkley = McCoy.

If you can't get a guy with a better skill set, then why move to get him? The combine will send RG3 through the roof. Him and Luck go 1-2.

Browns need to look at the next best guys (which aren't bad).

I've said this for years, but how can the botch a draft when they need everything?

[Spin]

Drafting a second teir QB would be the most Browns thing ever.

Yes. Barkley = McCoy.

If you can't get a guy with a better skill set, then why move to get him? The combine will send RG3 through the roof. Him and Luck go 1-2.

Browns need to look at the next best guys (which aren't bad).

I've said this for years, but how can the botch a draft when they need everything?

This is the Browns we're talking about.

[motherscratcher]

McCoy has officially been ruled out for Sunday.

Somebody put some Valium or halcion in Seneca's Sunday morning coffee before he goes out and does something stupid.

It's not that I have faith in Wallace, it's that I have no faith in anything good happening here.

[Hikohadon]

I also will not be shocked if McCoy has some success wherever he ends up and that's something I never said about guys like DA or Frye, etc.

Yeesh, you'd better put that caveat in, since there have been people that have trumpeted the immenent success of the Browns Cutting Crew from Couch to Quinn. And we all know how much success ANY of the QB's that have left here have had.

I'm not trying to be down on Colt, I just don't know where he goes to get a starting job. There's not a huge market for undersized guys with below average arms.

[JCoz]

Drafting a second teir QB would be the most Browns thing ever.

Yes. Barkley = McCoy.

If you can't get a guy with a better skill set, then why move to get him? The combine will send RG3 through the roof. Him and Luck go 1-2.

Browns need to look at the next best guys (which aren't bad).

I've said this for years, but how can the botch a draft when they need everything?

No idea what you are saying here.

Are you saying that Barkley does not have a better skillset, or was only the first line sarcasm?

When talking 2nd tier, my guess is that E0 was reffering to another 3rd rounder ala McCoy/Chalie Fry,not Barkley (even though I know he considers RG3 far above Barkley), but maybe I am wrong.

[JCoz]

I also will not be shocked if McCoy has some success wherever he ends up and that's something I never said about guys like DA or Frye, etc.

Yeesh, you'd better put that caveat in, since there have been people that have trumpeted the immenent success of the Browns Cutting Crew from Couch to Quinn.

Dont forget Bray Bray.

[Hikohadon]

I also will not be shocked if McCoy has some success wherever he ends up and that's something I never said about guys like DA or Frye, etc.

Yeesh, you'd better put that caveat in, since there have been people that have trumpeted the immenent success of the Browns Cutting Crew from Couch to Quinn.

Dont forget Bray Bray.

Compared to the production of the QB's that have left here, Braylon is a Hall of Famer.

Couch, 0 starts, out of league.
Holcomb, 11 starts, out of league.
Frye, 4 starts, out of league.
DA, 9 starts, 3rd string in Carolina.
Quinn, 0 starts, 2nd string in Denver.

[JCoz]

True Hiko. Nice Breakdown

Still there were tons on this board talking about how we were ripped off, and I'd say that deal stands as getting fair value at the minimum.No one expected those QB's to be stars that I can remember, but there were people talking about "future perrenial all-pro Edwards as soon as he gets out of this shit town"

[peeker643]

I also will not be shocked if McCoy has some success wherever he ends up and that's something I never said about guys like DA or Frye, etc.

Yeesh, you'd better put that caveat in, since there have been people that have trumpeted the immenent success of the Browns Cutting Crew from Couch to Quinn. And we all know how much success ANY of the QB's that have left here have had.

I'm not trying to be down on Colt, I just don't know where he goes to get a starting job. There's not a huge market for undersized guys with below average arms.

He doesn't go anywhere as a starter.

He'll go somewhere as a backup and move up when someone is hurt/ineffective. Dude needs some stability and time to learn a system. Wouldn't suck for him if he didn't have a coaching change/system change each season.

He needs help around him and all of the above. That's a lot to ask. But if he gets it he's going to be fine IMO.

[Erie Warrior]

Are you saying that Barkley does not have a better skillset

Mostly. More precisely would Barkley be a bigger upgrade over Colt vs. the next best college player and whatever stiff currently occupies that roster spot in Cleveland.

Particularly when you compare what the Browns have on OL/DL/WR/LB and what should be available.

Richardson vs Obi-wan
Blackmon vs Pure Awfulness

[JCoz]

Are you saying that Barkley does not have a better skillset

Mostly. More precisely would Barkley be a bigger upgrade over Colt vs. the next best college player and whatever stiff currently occupies that roster spot in Cleveland.

Particularly when you compare what the Browns have on OL/DL/WR/LB and what should be available.

Richardson vs Obi-wan
Blackmon vs Pure Awfulness

I dont know, at this point I'm not sure some are giving Barkley enough credit. Personally I'm starting to think the only thing I'm holding against him is Matt Lienart, which is not applicable or fair. He's got a better arm and better size than MCoy and has improved markedly every season.

No real arguments over Richardson even though usually I'm very against RB's this high. Not real high on taking blackmon, lots of good receivers later and that pick could be tradable for someone who overvalues him.

[Gradysmanldy]

Are you saying that Barkley does not have a better skillset

Mostly. More precisely would Barkley be a bigger upgrade over Colt vs. the next best college player and whatever stiff currently occupies that roster spot in Cleveland.

Particularly when you compare what the Browns have on OL/DL/WR/LB and what should be available.

Richardson vs Obi-wan
Blackmon vs Pure Awfulness

I think you're going to have to be more specific, Pure Awfulness plays multiple positions for the Browns.

[Cleveland Matt]

I think Holmgren has too big of an ego to draft a Qb with the Browns first round picks, especially in the top 5 or top 10 picks. Holmgren believes he is so good at finding talent at the Qb position. He can find someone later in the draft that will be just as good as the top QB's drafted.

Also Heck is the same way with the WR position. So I doubt they use either one of those two picks in the first on a WR.

Plus I believe he is willing to continue to build a team around McCoy or Wallace for one more year and let Shurmur be the walking dead coach that he is. Then after next season he will get a Qb in the draft and become the head coach of the Browns and we will be saved.

You all better not question the great and almight Holmgren or he will not print your playoff tickets for the 2014 season.


On a serious note. I hope the Browns get the #3 or #4 pick in the draft and then trade down and take the Dolphins or Redskins for all they got and then draft Trent Richardson.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Mostly. More precisely would Barkley be a bigger upgrade over Colt vs. the next best college player and whatever stiff currently occupies that roster spot in Cleveland.

QB is the most important position. If Heckgrin thinks Barkley is The Guy, then they better send his name to Roger Goodell when its our turn.

[Prosecutor]

I think Holmgren has too big of an ego to draft a Qb with the Browns first round picks, especially in the top 5 or top 10 picks. Holmgren believes he is so good at finding talent at the Qb position. He can find someone later in the draft that will be just as good as the top QB's drafted.

Also Heck is the same way with the WR position. So I doubt they use either one of those two picks in the first on a WR.

On a serious note. I hope the Browns get the #3 or #4 pick in the draft and then trade down and take the Dolphins or Redskins for all they got and then draft Trent Richardson.

Agree on no QB or WR with that first pick. I think Luck and RG3 go 1-2 and Barkley also goes before the Browns pick at 5 or 6, probably via a trade-up. So the Browns stand pat and take the top cornerback to replace Sheldon Brown. There are a lot of great receivers in the AFC North and the Browns need to consider that. They won't take a running back that high, not in the WCO. They'll go with a committee of Obi, Hardesty, and Brandon Jackson.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I think Holmgren has too big of an ego to draft a Qb with the Browns first round picks, especially in the top 5 or top 10 picks. Holmgren believes he is so good at finding talent at the Qb position. He can find someone later in the draft that will be just as good as the top QB's drafted.

Also Heck is the same way with the WR position. So I doubt they use either one of those two picks in the first on a WR.

On a serious note. I hope the Browns get the #3 or #4 pick in the draft and then trade down and take the Dolphins or Redskins for all they got and then draft Trent Richardson.

Agree on no QB or WR with that first pick. I think Luck and RG3 go 1-2 and Barkley also goes before the Browns pick at 5 or 6, probably via a trade-up. So the Browns stand pat and take the top cornerback to replace Sheldon Brown. There are a lot of great receivers in the AFC North and the Browns need to consider that. They won't take a running back that high, not in the WCO. They'll go with a committee of Obi, Hardesty, and Brandon Jackson.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ dis

I've been pimping Caliborne but no one wants to hear it

...or Coples @DE

[Cleveland Matt]

I have been looking at FA CB for next season there is one guy that really sticks out to me that I think could help change the way teams look at the Browns.

The one move I think they should try and do it sign Cortland Finnegan the writing is on the world for him and the Titans. This is the type of guy I would love to see on the other side of Haden. He is tough and a smart football player. He would bring a much needed attitude to the Browns and their D. He is only 27 and has a ton of experience that would continue to help Haden and Ward grow.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Not adorable Colt! He's the future!

[sonoranreptile]

Barkley IS Colt........dude has some of the best receivers and O-Line "money" can buy........wait until he gets to Cleveland.......lmao

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Barkley IS Colt........dude has some of the best receivers and O-Line "money" can buy........wait until he gets to Cleveland.......lmao

We need Kalil more than Barkley

[mitch]

I also will not be shocked if McCoy has some success wherever he ends up and that's something I never said about guys like DA or Frye, etc.

Yeesh, you'd better put that caveat in, since there have been people that have trumpeted the immenent success of the Browns Cutting Crew from Couch to Quinn.

Dont forget Bray Bray.

Compared to the production of the QB's that have left here, Braylon is a Hall of Famer.

Couch, 0 starts, out of league.
Holcomb, 11 starts, out of league.
Frye, 4 starts, out of league.
DA, 9 starts, 3rd string in Carolina.
Quinn, 0 starts, 2nd string in Denver.

Actually, DA is 2nd string for the Panthers, as Jimmy Clausen has been inactive in pretty much every game this year.

But he still sucks.

[Hikohadon]

Oh no the offensive line is so bad oh no there are no playmakers on the team oh no there is no running offense oh no Seneca only looked good because the Browns management hates Colt and is trying to betray him.

I don't even know what your personal problem is if you want to advocate Colt as a starting QB next year, but I invite you to take some pills.