Text Size

Cleveland Browns & The NFL

Concussed Colt

Talk Browns football and discuss the NFL here.

Moderators: peeker643, jb, swerb, pup

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby swerb » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:34 pm

peeker643 wrote:Interesting perspective from someone who read my last couple articles in that he believes this probably doesn't happen (the McCoy concussion fiasco) if Shurmur isn't overwhelmed by his responsibilities as head coach AND offensive coordinator.

I think Shurmur would be overwhelmed grocery shopping for his family.

Same thing happening in Dallas BTW. Another young dumb HC that insists on calling all the plays in addition to trying to run a football team and react real time to things that happen on Sundays.
"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

http://www.twitter.com/theclevelandfan
User avatar
swerb
JoBu's bee-yotch
 
Posts: 17918
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:04 pm
Location: Twinsburg, OH
Favorite Player: Mango Hab
Least Favorite Player: Bob LaMonte

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby fundamentals » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:53 pm

From Peter King's column, his take on the "concussed" Colt McCoy:


The Browns should build around Colt McCoy, not draft a quarterback in 2012 to replace him. I'd seen snippets of McCoy flailing around this year, but hadn't watched every throw of a game. And so I watched Thursday night to get some sense of the near- and long-term prospects of the former University of Texas quarterback. And I came away thinking the Browns should stick with him and use a rich 2012 draft to finally build the kind of offense around McCoy that any quarterback would need to succeed.

Mike Holmgren is a disciple of Bill Walsh. I remember when Walsh was shown a few plays of Charles Haley rushing the passer at James Madison; he told his scouts he really wanted him. "If we see him make a few plays like this, we can coach him to do it all the time,'' Walsh said, and he was proved a prophet -- Haley became a top NFL pass-rusher for San Francisco and Dallas.

Well, on Thursday night, I saw McCoy, with limited help from grade-D skill players, make enough plays to convince me he's not the problem. Now, I realize he made two or three idiotic throws in the second half -- and you're not going to win doing that consistently. But one of the bad throws came after he was concussed and should never have been put back in the game. And those throws have to be addressed.

But he did enough good things that I came away thinking: Use the three picks in the top 40 next April (Cleveland has its own first- and-second-round picks, plus Atlanta's first-rounder from the Julio Jones deal last April) to help McCoy, not replace him. Three plays showed a mature quarterback making good decisions:

1. On the first series of the game, using play-action, McCoy set up, looked over his options and found tight end Evan Moore down the left side on a crossing route with a step on linebacker Lawrence Timmons. The high-arcing pass settled into Moore's arms. Gain of 33.

2. Also on the first series, Josh Cribbs found a gap downfield in the left seam and McCoy made a great touch pass over cornerback Ike Taylor. Gain of 25.

3. In the third quarter, on third-and-eight, down 7-3, McCoy faced a five-man rush and moved up in the pocket. Feeling pressure, he threw the ball about five feet to the right of tight end Alex Smith, because that was the only window open to make the throw -- Troy Polamalu, Ryan Clark and William Gay converged on Smith and seemed ready to pancake him. But the throw was zipped in perfectly, Smith made a diving catch, and the Browns had a first down. Good judgment, great throw.

Of course, we wouldn't be talking about any of this if McCoy didn't make some brain-fart throws. But I believe he can be coached out of those -- it's what Bill Walsh would believe, watching him -- and I believe some of that stems from the fact that the Browns are a poor offensive team as a whole.

McCoy has holes. He also has a coach, Pat Shurmur, who can correct those, and is in an offense he's so well-suited to run. He's well-liked and respected in the locker room. If I'm Browns GM Tom Heckert, I'm looking for an offseason upgrade at wide receiver (the Browns need two), guard, running back and tight end ... before I even think about replacing the quarterback.
"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

"We had a great time together."
fundamentals
Goodwill Ambassador
 
Posts: 2915
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:59 pm
Favorite Player: Mariano Rivera
Least Favorite Player: Rex Ryan

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:18 pm

peeker643 wrote:Interesting perspective from someone who read my last couple articles in that he believes this probably doesn't happen (the McCoy concussion fiasco) if Shurmur isn't overwhelmed by his responsibilities as head coach AND offensive coordinator.


Yeah, that's interesting if "interesting" means "stupid".

But, again, I will in no way try to use reason or logic to save Shurmur. If y'all wanna burn him, torch away pal. Use whatever kindling, real or make-believe, you need to get the fire burning bright. Turn him into human jerky.
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4302
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby swerb » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:20 pm

Image
"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

http://www.twitter.com/theclevelandfan
User avatar
swerb
JoBu's bee-yotch
 
Posts: 17918
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:04 pm
Location: Twinsburg, OH
Favorite Player: Mango Hab
Least Favorite Player: Bob LaMonte

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:20 pm

The King comments are why I don't think they're taking QB next April.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I just believe what King believes.

BTW- why did the Browns just have Shurmur discussing concussions, medical issues and the McCoy situation again today? Are they that fucking dumb that they don't have the medical staff or PR department carrying the mail here?

He bumbled and stammered again for 10 minutes.

It's pathetic and embarrassing.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22664
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:23 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:Interesting perspective from someone who read my last couple articles in that he believes this probably doesn't happen (the McCoy concussion fiasco) if Shurmur isn't overwhelmed by his responsibilities as head coach AND offensive coordinator.


Yeah, that's interesting if "interesting" means "stupid".

But, again, I will in no way try to use reason or logic to save Shurmur. If y'all wanna burn him, torch away pal. Use whatever kindling, real or make-believe, you need to get the fire burning bright. Turn him into human jerky.


Oddly he's saying what you said: that it isn't Shurmur's responsibility and that if the medical staff clears McCoy to play Shurmur's not going to give a second consultation. He's running a football team (poorly ) and an offense (abysmally).
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22664
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:28 pm

peeker643 wrote:The King comments are why I don't think they're taking QB next April.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I just believe what King believes.

BTW- why did the Browns just have Shurmur discussing concussions, medical issues and the McCoy situation again today? Are they that fucking dumb that they don't have the medical staff or PR department carrying the mail here?

He bumbled and stammered again for 10 minutes.

It's pathetic and embarrassing.


Well, I know that I for one am excited about another year of Shurmur and McCoy, because another year just like this one is exactly what I need. The stress of watching my team in meaningful games is not good for my blood pressure, so it's probably best that we can annually start discussing the draft in November.

Best case scenario - Shurmur and McCoy lead the Browns to a 6-10 or 7-9 record in 2012, leading some to believe that all they need is yet another year of development, so we can get the same thing in 2013 too.

The importance of the QB position is overrated anyway.
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4302
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:49 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:The King comments are why I don't think they're taking QB next April.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I just believe what King believes.

BTW- why did the Browns just have Shurmur discussing concussions, medical issues and the McCoy situation again today? Are they that fucking dumb that they don't have the medical staff or PR department carrying the mail here?

He bumbled and stammered again for 10 minutes.

It's pathetic and embarrassing.


Well, I know that I for one am excited about another year of Shurmur and McCoy, because another year just like this one is exactly what I need. The stress of watching my team in meaningful games is not good for my blood pressure, so it's probably best that we can annually start discussing the draft in November.

Best case scenario - Shurmur and McCoy lead the Browns to a 6-10 or 7-9 record in 2012, leading some to believe that all they need is yet another year of development, so we can get the same thing in 2013 too.

The importance of the QB position is overrated anyway.


You're right. Be great to have a world class athlete here who might be a terrific player so that Shurmur and Holmgren can shape him into a perfect WCO QB.

You're blaming Shurmur and McCoy. I'm telling you Shurmur is clearly the puppet of Holmgren and that Holmgren ain't changing his MO. As long as Chubby is absently running this team they will hammer the parts to fit the holes. Not the other way around.

You want a #1-5 pick QB? Wait til Holmgren and Shurmur ultimately are gone. Otherwise you're just wasting your time.

And btw, I don't know who it is yet, but next year will also bring you another 'Once in a Lifetime' flavor of the month. If you don't think a really good NFL QB ultimately comes out of next year's draft, well, not much I can do (other than go back to every other single draft in history) to show you that.

You're wasting valuable picks taking the show ponies with this regime.

End of the day, neither of us probably know shit. I do tend to believe King watches all these games with actual experts and probably is influenced by their thoughts and opinions too.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22664
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby JCoz » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:06 pm

I agree with alot of that Peek.

I'll submit that though many here think passing on/not getting RG3/Barkley means a failed draft, I can see countless scenarios where our 1st four picks make this team quite a bit better, and fans happier post draft. And despite the typical browns doom and gloom everywhere, along with the rehashing of all the horrific front office decisions of the last decade both for coaches and in the draft room, the fact remains that Heckert has done an awfully solid job on draft day two years running, and I'd be very interested in seeing what Heckert brings home in a third year with the most and biggest bullets yet.
User avatar
JCoz
Donnie, you're out of your element
 
Posts: 4158
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:57 am
Favorite Player: Competency
Least Favorite Player: Gene Smith

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:08 pm

peeker643 wrote:You're blaming Shurmur and McCoy. I'm telling you Shurmur is clearly the puppet of Holmgren and that Holmgren ain't changing his MO. As long as Chubby is absently running this team they will hammer the parts to fit the holes. Not the other way around.


If the chain of command truly means Holmgren = Shurmur and McCoy, then I want Holmgren gone too. I'm not totally convinced that Holmgren is married to these guys, we'll see in the offseason. I have a slight hope that Holmgren will pull the trigger on getting a QB, I do. But I agree we have at least Shurmur for another year.

peeker643 wrote:You want a #1-5 pick QB? Wait til Holmgren and Shurmur ultimately are gone. Otherwise you're just wasting your time.


Watching the Browns is a waste of time, period. Doesn't mean I don't do it.

peeker643 wrote:And btw, I don't know who it is yet, but next year will also bring you another 'Once in a Lifetime' flavor of the month. If you don't think a really good NFL QB ultimately comes out of next year's draft, well, not much I can do (other than go back to every other single draft in history) to show you that.


Of course next year will bring another good QB. And the year after that too. Until we get one, we're stuck in neutral, no matter who's the President/GM/Coach. I'd like one NOW so we can start progress in 2012 rather than 2014, but these are clearly just my wishes. I harbor few illusions that things will be done correctly - I'm just putting my opinion out there as to what I think they should do.

peeker643 wrote:You're wasting valuable picks taking the show ponies with this regime.


See again comment about Browns = Wasting Time.

peeker643 wrote:End of the day, neither of us probably know shit. I do tend to believe King watches all these games with actual experts and probably is influenced by their thoughts and opinions too.


I would tend to agree, but then I also realize that you and I have watched every Browns snap this season, while King readily admits that this is the first Browns game he has watched. I'd bet the same with those experts he watches with. Coming to a conclusion from watching one game might be incorrect, even for an expert. Have Peter King watch every Colt McCoy start from his first to the present and tell me if he doesn't say "Yeah, maybe I was wrong, I see no progress or development at all in this guy. You could always surround the guy with talent and hope that he gets significantly better, but the odds aren't good."

Were the Panthers right to write Jimmy Clausen after only a few starts?
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4302
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:10 pm

fundamentals wrote:From Peter King's column, his take on the "concussed" Colt McCoy:

I remember when Walsh was shown a few plays of Charles Haley rushing the passer at James Madison; he told his scouts he really wanted him. "If we see him make a few plays like this, we can coach him to do it all the time,'' Walsh said...


I believe Butch Davis said the same thing about Chaun Thompson.
I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever.
- CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team
User avatar
mattvan1
 
Posts: 3672
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:41 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:14 pm

JCoz wrote:I agree with alot of that Peek.

I'll submit that though many here think passing on/not getting RG3/Barkley means a failed draft, I can see countless scenarios where our 1st four picks make this team quite a bit better, and fans happier post draft. And despite the typical browns doom and gloom everywhere, along with the rehashing of all the horrific front office decisions of the last decade both for coaches and in the draft room, the fact remains that Heckert has done an awfully solid job on draft day two years running, and I'd be very interested in seeing what Heckert brings home in a third year with the most and biggest bullets yet.


There's little doubt that the 1st 4 picks make this team better, even if they aren't Luck or RG3. I just argue that it leaves the team inadequate at the most important position and just delays another year finally getting a franchise QB (which is not to say that Luck or RG3 are sure-fire franchise QB's, just that Colt definitely is not).

These elite QB prospects usually are Top 5 picks. When's the next time the Browns will be in the Top 5? Those 1st 4 picks might make them somewhat better and Colt might be slightly better, so we'll get to wallow around that 10-15 range for a couple years until the bottom falls out (again) and we get to start the process all over. Except it's 2015 and Cleveland Browns Stadium is emptier than a Kardashian soul.
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4302
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:17 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
fundamentals wrote:From Peter King's column, his take on the "concussed" Colt McCoy:

I remember when Walsh was shown a few plays of Charles Haley rushing the passer at James Madison; he told his scouts he really wanted him. "If we see him make a few plays like this, we can coach him to do it all the time,'' Walsh said...


I believe Butch Davis said the same thing about Chaun Thompson.


Had Butchie waited until the 4th round to take Thompson like Walsh waited to take Haley, I'd have had far fewer issues with that pick.

Not to mention Walsh had already demonstrated that he knew what the hell he was doing, won a couple Bowls and generally exhibited some knowledge in building his teams.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22664
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:26 pm

I guess that's the overriding issue for me: Heckert has been far more valuable than Shurmur and Holmgren. And he's doing the drafting.

I'm not willing to sacrifice a number of picks that he could turn into players on a team with as many holes as the Browns have.

Not for a QB that Shurmur and Holmgren will nueter. I still believe Bradford was nuetered by Shurmur's offense and has yet to recover (and he's been hurt, yes). He was a consensus #1 pick with all the tools as well.

I'd prefer to let Heckert make thse picks and fill in 3 or 4 gaping holes. Maybe he takes pick #2 in the first round and deals it for a 1st rounder next year a la the Patriots.

I don't know. I agree Colt isn't a franchise guy. Not with what we've seen. But reducing the number of swings Heckert gets to take, to me, is a bad idea. Especially when the player you'd be giving up so much for would be forced into WCO 101.

I understand YMMV and I understand why it would. But this team isn't close and I think it benefits from using those picks on talent upgrades across the field as opposed to giving anything up to get the QB this coming draft.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22664
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:31 pm

peeker643 wrote:I guess that's the overriding issue for me: Heckert has been far more valuable than Shurmur and Holmgren. And he's doing the drafting.

I'm not willing to sacrifice a number of picks that he could turn into players on a team with as many holes as the Browns have.

Not for a QB that Shurmur and Holmgren will nueter. I still believe Bradford was nuetered by Shurmur's offense and has yet to recover (and he's been hurt, yes). He was a consensus #1 pick with all the tools as well.

I'd prefer to let Heckert make thse picks and fill in 3 or 4 gaping holes. Maybe he takes pick #2 in the first round and deals it for a 1st rounder next year a la the Patriots.

I don't know. I agree Colt isn't a franchise guy. Not with what we've seen. But reducing the number of swings Heckert gets to take, to me, is a bad idea. Especially when the player you'd be giving up so much for would be forced into WCO 101.

I understand YMMV and I understand why it would. But this team isn't close and I think it benefits from using those picks on talent upgrades across the field as opposed to giving anything up to get the QB this coming draft.


I never said anything about giving up anything to get one of the QB's. I'm merely proposing taking one with the #4 pick (should they be there). I have mixed feelings about the trade-up scenario. I guess it would depend upon the price.

If RG3 is there at #4, they'd better take him. That's pretty much all I'm saying.
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4302
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby JCoz » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:34 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
JCoz wrote:I agree with alot of that Peek.

I'll submit that though many here think passing on/not getting RG3/Barkley means a failed draft, I can see countless scenarios where our 1st four picks make this team quite a bit better, and fans happier post draft. And despite the typical browns doom and gloom everywhere, along with the rehashing of all the horrific front office decisions of the last decade both for coaches and in the draft room, the fact remains that Heckert has done an awfully solid job on draft day two years running, and I'd be very interested in seeing what Heckert brings home in a third year with the most and biggest bullets yet.


There's little doubt that the 1st 4 picks make this team better, even if they aren't Luck or RG3. I just argue that it leaves the team inadequate at the most important position and just delays another year finally getting a franchise QB (which is not to say that Luck or RG3 are sure-fire franchise QB's, just that Colt definitely is not).

These elite QB prospects usually are Top 5 picks. When's the next time the Browns will be in the Top 5? Those 1st 4 picks might make them somewhat better and Colt might be slightly better, so we'll get to wallow around that 10-15 range for a couple years until the bottom falls out (again) and we get to start the process all over. Except it's 2015 and Cleveland Browns Stadium is emptier than a Kardashian soul.


Heckert is the only thing counter to the cycle the Browns have been in the last decade. If this years draft is like the last two, it will be by far the best 3-draft stretch in the new browns short history. And thats a big part of being a successful franchise. You can fire and hire a coach in one offseason, you can draft a new QB in any offseason.

But there is no quick-fix substitute for years spent making solid decisions on draft day. I'm not against drafting RG3 or even Barkley. I'm just not consolidating 2-4 extremely valuable picks to get them on this team right now.
User avatar
JCoz
Donnie, you're out of your element
 
Posts: 4158
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:57 am
Favorite Player: Competency
Least Favorite Player: Gene Smith

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby JCoz » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:35 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:I guess that's the overriding issue for me: Heckert has been far more valuable than Shurmur and Holmgren. And he's doing the drafting.

I'm not willing to sacrifice a number of picks that he could turn into players on a team with as many holes as the Browns have.

Not for a QB that Shurmur and Holmgren will nueter. I still believe Bradford was nuetered by Shurmur's offense and has yet to recover (and he's been hurt, yes). He was a consensus #1 pick with all the tools as well.

I'd prefer to let Heckert make thse picks and fill in 3 or 4 gaping holes. Maybe he takes pick #2 in the first round and deals it for a 1st rounder next year a la the Patriots.

I don't know. I agree Colt isn't a franchise guy. Not with what we've seen. But reducing the number of swings Heckert gets to take, to me, is a bad idea. Especially when the player you'd be giving up so much for would be forced into WCO 101.

I understand YMMV and I understand why it would. But this team isn't close and I think it benefits from using those picks on talent upgrades across the field as opposed to giving anything up to get the QB this coming draft.


I never said anything about giving up anything to get one of the QB's. I'm merely proposing taking one with the #4 pick (should they be there). I have mixed feelings about the trade-up scenario. I guess it would depend upon the price.

If RG3 is there at #4, they'd better take him. That's pretty much all I'm saying.


I'm not neccessarily on the exact same page, but I'm good with that.
User avatar
JCoz
Donnie, you're out of your element
 
Posts: 4158
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:57 am
Favorite Player: Competency
Least Favorite Player: Gene Smith

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:47 pm

I would tend to agree, but then I also realize that you and I have watched every Browns snap this season, while King readily admits that this is the first Browns game he has watched. I'd bet the same with those experts he watches with


This is why I also believe that the Browns will NOT draft a QB #1. I've seen all the snaps too and I lean towards Kings opinion....

How many yds and TDs have been left on the field due to drops?

What would the numbers look like if the drops were compared to the league avg and the yds gained sansa YAC, added to McCoy's stats

Take away 2 bad snaps and a couple dropped passes and the Browns could be 8-5, not to mention the Inbred fiasco

Throw away next yr now and prepare youselves.....

McCoy will be dog meat next yr to continue the build, IMO. Then they can ad a vet in FA or draft a QB

Would I like RG? Hell yeah

Will I be pissed if they pass him up?

No

What I want is for the Browns to go BPA BPA BPA or all in on one side of the ball or the other

Just make a fucking decision with some fucking conviction
Hope is a moment now long past
The Shadow of Death is the one I cast
Koo koo ka joob....I am the Walrus
User avatar
Fire Marshall Bill
 
Posts: 2691
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:00 pm
Favorite Player: Killer Bean
Least Favorite Player: Charcoal&Piss

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:33 pm

Fire Marshall Bill wrote: What I want is for the Browns to go BPA BPA BPA or all in on one side of the ball or the other


What if RG3 IS the BPA?
I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever.
- CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team
User avatar
mattvan1
 
Posts: 3672
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:41 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:41 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
Fire Marshall Bill wrote: What I want is for the Browns to go BPA BPA BPA or all in on one side of the ball or the other


What if RG3 IS the BPA?


If he's there and they take him in the flow of the draft and w/o giving up additional picks I'm fine with it.

I'll concede that much.

But I'm not giving up additional picks with this team.

Crissake, there's a huge difference between Scott Fujita and Kaiuka Maiva. And Fujita is toast. Too many holes to give up multiple potential improvements.


Best case: He's there and you take him, fill a few other holes in the next couple rounds and Colt McCoy morphs into Drew Brees while RG3 is Rivers.

That wouldn't blow ;-) ;) :wink:
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22664
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby JCoz » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:44 pm

RG3, Teo, Adams, Posey?

Yah I could live with that.
User avatar
JCoz
Donnie, you're out of your element
 
Posts: 4158
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:57 am
Favorite Player: Competency
Least Favorite Player: Gene Smith

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:47 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
Fire Marshall Bill wrote: What I want is for the Browns to go BPA BPA BPA or all in on one side of the ball or the other


What if RG3 IS the BPA?


Then I'd be happy, eh?

Like I just got finished saying...
Hope is a moment now long past
The Shadow of Death is the one I cast
Koo koo ka joob....I am the Walrus
User avatar
Fire Marshall Bill
 
Posts: 2691
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:00 pm
Favorite Player: Killer Bean
Least Favorite Player: Charcoal&Piss

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:13 pm

peeker643 wrote:Best case: He's there and you take him, fill a few other holes in the next couple rounds and Colt McCoy morphs into Drew Brees while RG3 is Rivers.

That wouldn't blow ;-) ;) :wink:


That WOULD be the best case scenario (although I would bet my life savings that Colt doesn't morph into anything close to Brees, even if he gets a mole surgically implanted on his face).

A much better scenario than giving Colt another year and finding out that he's already reached his ceiling and still this same fucking conversation at this same time next year about some other QB.
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4302
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Spin » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:13 pm

While on the topic of concussions (if we still are), Sidney Crosby is out indefinitely with concussion-like symptoms.

This shit is nothing to fuck around with.
User avatar
Spin
 
Posts: 2917
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:16 am
Location: the burbs of Akron
Favorite Player: Jack N. Coke
Least Favorite Player: 72 hour work weeks

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Leasure » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:11 pm

i would be happy to see kellen moore out of boise state. he has as good of numbers as rg3 and will fall to the late rounds
Leasure
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:27 pm
Favorite Player: tj ward
Least Favorite Player: rothlesburger

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:30 pm

Leasure wrote:i would be happy to see kellen moore out of boise state. he has as good of numbers as rg3 and will fall to the late rounds


We have Kellen Moore.

This thread could be titled "Concussed Kellen"
User avatar
leadpipe
The Reverend
 
Posts: 6583
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:58 am

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby That_Guy™ » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:48 pm

The whole thing with Durrrrmur's excuse boils down to 2 things, either:

He knowingly and purposely played someone who potentially had a concussion. A player who got knocked the fuck out before he even hit the ground and looked dazed to anyone watching on TV. Trained medical staff should be able to tell at a glance that he was a textbook example of someone who needs a proper evaluation for concussion.

Or:

He's just flat out fucking stupid. How can you believe for any instant that a player can be evaluated during the time it takes to run 2 FUCKING PLAYS. ::doh::

Either one should be a cause for termination. Get a real coach in here.
The first rule of Fight Club is: Don't tell Chuck Norris about Fight Club.
User avatar
That_Guy™
 
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:06 pm
Favorite Player: Leroy Jenkins
Least Favorite Player: Hines Ward

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby swerb » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:36 pm

Whuh oh.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=A ... ding_mccoy

Representatives of the NFL and the NFL Players Association are scheduled to meet today in Cleveland to discuss and determine whether the Browns followed proper protocol regarding checking quarterback Colt McCoy back into last Thursday's game after a helmet-to-helmet hit by Pittsburgh's James Harrison.

According to the Cleveland Plain Dealer, Browns coach Pat Shurmur said, the team's medical staff followed the correct procedure with McCoy who returned to the game shortly after having his hand examined. McCoy was not diagnosed with a concussion until the following day.

"We followed all the proper medical procedures," Shurmur said. "[There are] sideline procedures to determine whether the man can play. We followed them and I think that's what's important."

According to the newspaper, Shurmur did not answer when asked if a SCAT2 test was administered to McCoy on the sideline.

McCoy did not practice Monday and might not make his scheduled start against the Arizona Cardinals on Sunday.
"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

http://www.twitter.com/theclevelandfan
User avatar
swerb
JoBu's bee-yotch
 
Posts: 17918
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:04 pm
Location: Twinsburg, OH
Favorite Player: Mango Hab
Least Favorite Player: Bob LaMonte

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:41 pm

What are the consequences if they didn't follow the NFL's protocol?

Him not answering the question on the SCAT2 is almost damning evidence they didn't do what they should have.
"Our name is Legion, for we are many."
User avatar
Cerebral_DownTime
Go f#%k yourself
 
Posts: 14422
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:31 am
Location: Galloway Ohio
Favorite Player: Fenrir
Least Favorite Player: Walt Flannigan's dog

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:44 pm

If Colt can't go this Sunday, then I think it's too risky to play Seneca or that other 3rd string dude. What if they got concussed too? No, I think the smart play here is to throw Cribbs in at QB and see what happens. Maybe bring in Kevin Johnson as his backup.

And no, before you ask, this has nothing at all to do with draft picks or me being worried that Seneca might just come in and screw the whole thing up.
According to my sources CDT farts in the tub and bites the bubbles.
User avatar
motherscratcher
Little Larry Sellers
 
Posts: 7748
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:14 pm
Location: La La Land
Favorite Player: Ernie Camacho
Least Favorite Player: Jose Mesa

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby swerb » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:11 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:What are the consequences if they didn't follow the NFL's protocol?

Would lethal injection be asking for too much? Restraining order where Shurmur would never be allowed within 100 miles of Berea again as a fall back maybe?
"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

http://www.twitter.com/theclevelandfan
User avatar
swerb
JoBu's bee-yotch
 
Posts: 17918
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:04 pm
Location: Twinsburg, OH
Favorite Player: Mango Hab
Least Favorite Player: Bob LaMonte

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby swerb » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:15 pm

motherscratcher wrote:If Colt can't go this Sunday, then I think it's too risky to play Seneca or that other 3rd string dude. What if they got concussed too? No, I think the smart play here is to throw Cribbs in at QB and see what happens. Maybe bring in Kevin Johnson as his backup.

And no, before you ask, this has nothing at all to do with draft picks or me being worried that Seneca might just come in and screw the whole thing up.

I can totally see that. Seneca plays this week and blitzes the Cardinals for 275 yards and 3 TDs. Browns win fall down to about the #8 pick, below Washington and Miami. Just enough of a win to give enough false hope to not even entertain making SHUR MUR sleep with the fishes.

Would be classic Browns. Unload on em +7 this week.
"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

http://www.twitter.com/theclevelandfan
User avatar
swerb
JoBu's bee-yotch
 
Posts: 17918
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:04 pm
Location: Twinsburg, OH
Favorite Player: Mango Hab
Least Favorite Player: Bob LaMonte

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby pup » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:18 pm

If he was not showing symptoms of a concussion, which is what THEY want you to believe, then they did the proper testing to make sure his hand was ok.
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12020
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:07 am

swerb wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:If Colt can't go this Sunday, then I think it's too risky to play Seneca or that other 3rd string dude. What if they got concussed too? No, I think the smart play here is to throw Cribbs in at QB and see what happens. Maybe bring in Kevin Johnson as his backup.

And no, before you ask, this has nothing at all to do with draft picks or me being worried that Seneca might just come in and screw the whole thing up.

I can totally see that. Seneca plays this week and blitzes the Cardinals for 275 yards and 3 TDs. Browns win fall down to about the #8 pick, below Washington and Miami. Just enough of a win to give enough false hope to not even entertain making SHUR MUR sleep with the fishes.

Would be classic Browns. Unload on em +7 this week.


I too fear this. Seneca comes in and shows what competent QB-ing looks like, and then not only does the win F us out of RG3/Barkley, but we get a hornet's nest of Colt vs. Seneca mediocre QB controversy. Oh, and Shurmur looks briefly like he knows what he's doing b/c the Browns O looks good for one Sunday.

Please... Tebow-dammit... no...
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4302
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby That_Guy™ » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:44 am

Please don't take Tebow's name in vain. I'm sure he forgives you, but why take chances.
The first rule of Fight Club is: Don't tell Chuck Norris about Fight Club.
User avatar
That_Guy™
 
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:06 pm
Favorite Player: Leroy Jenkins
Least Favorite Player: Hines Ward

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:43 am

Our Tebow, who art in Denver. Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is on the gridiron. Give us this day our weekly comeback and forgive our penalties as we forgive those who commit penalties against us. Lead us not into temptation, and deliver us from losses. For the Broncos are thy kingdom, thy power, and thy glory forever. Amen.
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4302
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Spin » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:10 am

pup wrote:If he was not showing symptoms of a concussion, which is what THEY want you to believe, then they did the proper testing to make sure his hand was ok.


But "loss of consciousness" is a dead ringer. No pun intended.
User avatar
Spin
 
Posts: 2917
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:16 am
Location: the burbs of Akron
Favorite Player: Jack N. Coke
Least Favorite Player: 72 hour work weeks

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:50 am

Spin wrote:
pup wrote:If he was not showing symptoms of a concussion, which is what THEY want you to believe, then they did the proper testing to make sure his hand was ok.


But "loss of consciousness" is a dead ringer. No pun intended.


Honest question - Anyone say he lost consciousness except Daddy Dearest?
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4302
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:06 am

Here's a thought...

How about Walrus sees what happend on the field, gets informed that procedures weren't properly followed, is convinved that regardless of play on the field Schurmur is still culpable, so he lets him hang himself in the media as an excuse to fire his dumb ass?
Hope is a moment now long past
The Shadow of Death is the one I cast
Koo koo ka joob....I am the Walrus
User avatar
Fire Marshall Bill
 
Posts: 2691
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:00 pm
Favorite Player: Killer Bean
Least Favorite Player: Charcoal&Piss

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Spin » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:02 am

Hikohadon wrote:
Spin wrote:
pup wrote:If he was not showing symptoms of a concussion, which is what THEY want you to believe, then they did the proper testing to make sure his hand was ok.


But "loss of consciousness" is a dead ringer. No pun intended.


Honest question - Anyone say he lost consciousness except Daddy Dearest?


The team won't. They thought it was just a hand injury.

Players said it was a complete loss of consciousness. From the video it was certainly a decreased level of consciousness. And even in the presser he couldn't form sentences.

And even if it wasn't a complete LOC, the Browns had pulled two other players with concussions w/o LOC earlier in the game. That, in my mind, is the kicker. They can't plead ignorance of the most basic sports injuries when they already diagnosed two players earlier that night.

No excuse.
User avatar
Spin
 
Posts: 2917
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:16 am
Location: the burbs of Akron
Favorite Player: Jack N. Coke
Least Favorite Player: 72 hour work weeks

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby pup » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:12 am

THEY ARE SAYING HE SHOWED NO SIGNS OF A CONCUSSION ON THE FIELD OR ON THE SIDELINES. WHICH IS WHY HE WAS NOT TESTED.

They are either lying and thought it was worth sending him out to get himself killed.

Or they did not notice.

Or he was fine.

They now have offensive linemen saying he appeared no different in the huddle when he came back. So either they have them covering their ass for them, or Colt was "fine".

Myself, I think Colt is sick of Shurmur, worked up the balls to act like he was fine to return to the game, and then when the cameras showed up threw his coach under the bus. And got pops to throw some fuel on the next AM.
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12020
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:21 am

Pup = Oliver Stone
According to my sources CDT farts in the tub and bites the bubbles.
User avatar
motherscratcher
Little Larry Sellers
 
Posts: 7748
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:14 pm
Location: La La Land
Favorite Player: Ernie Camacho
Least Favorite Player: Jose Mesa

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:33 am

swerb wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:If Colt can't go this Sunday, then I think it's too risky to play Seneca or that other 3rd string dude. What if they got concussed too? No, I think the smart play here is to throw Cribbs in at QB and see what happens. Maybe bring in Kevin Johnson as his backup.

And no, before you ask, this has nothing at all to do with draft picks or me being worried that Seneca might just come in and screw the whole thing up.

I can totally see that. Seneca plays this week and blitzes the Cardinals for 275 yards and 3 TDs. Browns win fall down to about the #8 pick, below Washington and Miami. Just enough of a win to give enough false hope to not even entertain making SHUR MUR sleep with the fishes.

Would be classic Browns. Unload on em +7 this week.


100% sure this happens. Browns play a meh game, squeak by the Averagona Cardinals, everyone calls Rizzo and complains that Seneca is a better QB and should have played the whole year, he was so great when he started in 2010, and that if we use all those picks next year on WR and LB's we'll be playoff bounddddzzzz in 2012. (And since the options at that point with be Barkley or Landry, they might be right about the picks)

Meanwhile, Shurmur blames Colt for the anemic passing game, Walrus rolls his eyes and hires an OC to "help" him, and we go into 2012 with a 4th round project QB backing up the "battle" for first string with Seneca and Colt.

:hic: :hic: :hic:
Check me out at Dawgsbynature, where I write stuff, or @twitter as Josh Finney.
User avatar
Gradysmanldy
 
Posts: 1530
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:58 pm
Favorite Player: Melts Parmageddon
Least Favorite Player: The East Coast media

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:47 am

Gradysmanldy wrote:
100% sure this happens. Browns play a meh game, squeak by the Averagona Cardinals, everyone calls Rizzo and complains that Seneca is a better QB and should have played the whole year, he was so great when he started in 2010, and that if we use all those picks next year on WR and LB's we'll be playoff bounddddzzzz in 2012. (And since the options at that point with be Barkley or Landry, they might be right about the picks)

Meanwhile, Shurmur blames Colt for the anemic passing game, Walrus rolls his eyes and hires an OC to "help" him, and we go into 2012 with a 4th round project QB backing up the "battle" for first string with Seneca and Colt.

:hic: :hic: :hic:


This is way too much of a nightmare scenario for it not to happen exactly as you just described
According to my sources CDT farts in the tub and bites the bubbles.
User avatar
motherscratcher
Little Larry Sellers
 
Posts: 7748
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:14 pm
Location: La La Land
Favorite Player: Ernie Camacho
Least Favorite Player: Jose Mesa

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:05 pm

pup wrote:Myself, I think Colt is sick of Shurmur, worked up the balls to act like he was fine to return to the game, and then when the cameras showed up threw his coach under the bus. And got pops to throw some fuel on the next AM.


Given that Shurmur has shown as much trust in McCoy as David Stern has in Dell Demps, I'm voting this plausible.
"The fucking Who...... If I want to watch old people run around ill go set fire to a nursing home." - CDT
User avatar
Madre Hill, Superstar
Eternal Optimist
 
Posts: 4656
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:06 am
Location: Parma, OH
Favorite Player: The Playa
Least Favorite Player: The Game

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:28 pm

Moved to Walrus thread.
Last edited by Hikohadon on Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4302
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:31 pm

That puts any hope of Shurmur getting booted to bed, so I will now try to ignore all his gaffes and hope that he improves drastically all the way up to almost mediocre.
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4302
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:35 pm

Moved to Walrus thread.
Last edited by Hikohadon on Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4302
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby swerb » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:37 pm

What a mess, my God.
"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

http://www.twitter.com/theclevelandfan
User avatar
swerb
JoBu's bee-yotch
 
Posts: 17918
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:04 pm
Location: Twinsburg, OH
Favorite Player: Mango Hab
Least Favorite Player: Bob LaMonte

Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby fundamentals » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:53 pm

There has been a Holmgren sighting, allegedly, and McCoy was not given a concussion test before returning to the game:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/73523 ... t-sideline
"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

"We had a great time together."
fundamentals
Goodwill Ambassador
 
Posts: 2915
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:59 pm
Favorite Player: Mariano Rivera
Least Favorite Player: Rex Ryan

PreviousNext

Return to Cleveland Browns & The NFL

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Who is online

In total there are 3 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 3 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 181 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:50 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests