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Concussed Colt

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Concussed Colt

Unread postby aclayman » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:40 pm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ear ... early-lead

Sometimes, when the anger subsides, you have to marvel at just how many new ways the Browns find to embarrass themselves year in and year out. Helmet tossing, motorcycle crashes, botched snap streaks, strep throat controversies, etc. The expansion Browns are Wyle E. Coyote trying out an endless supply of shitty ACME products. And it's even better when there is a stark contrast to put them up against. Ex: Big Ben is injured, returns to field, guts it out and eventually throws game-sealing TD pass... vs... Colt is injured, returns to field, looks like a startled doe on a bad acid trip, turns a 1st and Goal at the Steeler 5 yard-line into negative 10 yards and a game-sealing INT. Then his dad yells at the team. It's so perfect it's almost poetry.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:47 pm

Despicable handling of the situation.

Seriously, it's one thing to be bad.

It's one thing to be the league laughingstock 10 of the 12 years you're back.

But it's a completely different thing to have the team in the hands of a 'leader' who is so incompetent that he's actually putting the health and well being of the players in serious jeopardy.

It's inexcusable and it's dangerous.

Reporter after reporter today talking about how McCoy was glassy eyed and completely out of it in the locker room. Yet the crack coaching and medical staff couldn't see it on the sidelines? Was this the first ever delayed concussion in medical history?

What a fucking joke.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby bac5665 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:52 pm

Fire Shurmer?

Please?
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby swerb » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:53 pm

Ready, aim ...

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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby aclayman » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:55 pm

In fairness, Shurmur generally looks glassy eyed and completely out of it himself. So he probably saw nothing out of the ordinary in the Coltster.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Triple-S » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:57 pm

Everytime I see your avatar, I always wondered if, yes, Indeed Jim Brown could take on an entire martian invading fleet. :).
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby FUDU » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:58 pm

Who has the final say on a players health in this situation, coach or trainers/medical staff?

Just sayin.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Triple-S » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:59 pm

FUDU wrote:Who has the final say on a players health in this situation, coach or trainers/medical staff?

Just sayin.


If you're a coach, and could see McCoy was fucked up like that, you don't keep him in there.

anyone with common sense knows that.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby bac5665 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:01 pm

See here's the thing. Shurmer has to have violated an NFL rule to put Colt back out there. Didn't the NFL make it basically impossible to not know if someone has a concussion now with a bunch of medical professionals trained specifically to detect them? Shurmer has to have known that Colt was concussed or close enough to trigger then NFL rules. The only way he doesn't know is if he's not putting the required medical staff on the field.

One way or another, Shurmer fucked up. About the #1 NFL PR issue of the day.

Gods but I hope this is enough to get rid of him.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby FUDU » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:03 pm

Triple-S wrote:
FUDU wrote:Who has the final say on a players health in this situation, coach or trainers/medical staff?

Just sayin.


If you're a coach, and could see McCoy was fucked up like that, you don't keep him in there.

anyone with common sense knows that.

I agree, but does Shurmur get that info from his gut or from staff. Not like Shurmur spent 5 minutes diagnosing Colt's condition, he had an offense to over see at that point.

Believe me putting Colt back in wasn't the give away the Shurmur might be an idiot.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:07 pm

Listen, I want Shurmur gone as much as you do, but if the medical staff evaluates him and says he's OK and he tells you he's OK, then I don't see why you don't put him back in. It's not like Shurmur was the one sitting there and evaluating him.

Like I said, I don't like the guy as a coach either, but let's not go overboard with the propaganda.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:14 pm

Hikohadon wrote:Listen, I want Shurmur gone as much as you do, but if the medical staff evaluates him and says he's OK and he tells you he's OK, then I don't see why you don't put him back in. It's not like Shurmur was the one sitting there and evaluating him.

Like I said, I don't like the guy as a coach either, but let's not go overboard with the propaganda.


Yes. Most media members are much more dialed in than the coach that deals with his QB on an every day basis. Had to have been damn near impossible for Shurmur to tell Colt was a bit vacant when Darrell Ruiter noticed it right away on the radio report.

And there are a variety of people who have to sign off on a player suspected of having a concussion returning to the field. The team's medical staff and an independent doctor being two of them.

No, Shurmur isn't the authority on it. But if he couldn't tell and the medical staff couldn't tell then there are even more assholes affiliated with this team than we thought a week ago.

Good God, if I get hit by a car and am lying in a street I hope it doesn't take a physician getting there and keeping me from getting back in my car and driving home. I'd hope even Pat Shurmur showing up might recognize that it wasn't a good idea to slide me back behind the wheel and back into traffic.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby FUDU » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:17 pm

Well there was a Cleveland Clinic sign where they evaluated Colt.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Triple-S » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:17 pm

James Harrison is trying to argue he had made a clean hit.

I have no words.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:59 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Listen, I want Shurmur gone as much as you do, but if the medical staff evaluates him and says he's OK and he tells you he's OK, then I don't see why you don't put him back in. It's not like Shurmur was the one sitting there and evaluating him.

Like I said, I don't like the guy as a coach either, but let's not go overboard with the propaganda.


Yes. Most media members are much more dialed in than the coach that deals with his QB on an every day basis. Had to have been damn near impossible for Shurmur to tell Colt was a bit vacant when Darrell Ruiter noticed it right away on the radio report.

And there are a variety of people who have to sign off on a player suspected of having a concussion returning to the field. The team's medical staff and an independent doctor being two of them.

No, Shurmur isn't the authority on it. But if he couldn't tell and the medical staff couldn't tell then there are even more assholes affiliated with this team than we thought a week ago.

Good God, if I get hit by a car and am lying in a street I hope it doesn't take a physician getting there and keeping me from getting back in my car and driving home. I'd hope even Pat Shurmur showing up might recognize that it wasn't a good idea to slide me back behind the wheel and back into traffic.


A scenario.

You're standing on the sidelines, watching the play on the field, trying to figure out which of your 6 plays to call next, when Colt trots up with his helmet on and says "Ready to go in, Coach".

You know the medical staff evaluated him, and you know they had to have given him a clean bill of health. Sure, maybe a member of the media that was staring at him during the evaluation (with his helmet off) might notice something, but he's had a few moments to compose himself and he's got a helmet on and you don't have very long between plays to stare deep into his eyes and determine the depth of his brain bruising.

I'll gladly eviscerate him for everything from his demeanor to his press conferences to his play calling to his game day handling of personnel packages... but I'm just not overly pissed at HIM about this.

The evaluation staff... well, that's another matter.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:11 pm

You said, "trying to figure out which of your 6 plays to call next"

Six plays.

That's funny because the two I know are throw real short and run ineffectively. ;-) ;) :wink:

Anyhow, dude was down on the field, there was a TV timeout, etc. I'm saying he should have known. Maybe I'm overstating it because he does have numerous other responsibilities that he's busy being derelict on, but I don't think it's unreasonable to be talking to the kid and seeing he's fucked up.

Probably just my disgust for the whole season and system.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby municipalmutt » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:14 pm

FUDU wrote:Who has the final say on a players health in this situation, coach or trainers/medical staff?

Just sayin.


A)Sorry but that's the same convoluted logic that Joe Pa used to distance himself from Sandusky. "Well I told the AD about Uncle Feely Hands." The head coach has the final say about personnel decisions and he botched it whether he was cleared by the medics or not. End of story.

Personal responsibility seems to be a long lost virtue these days.

OR

B)If Shurmur is incompetent enough that he didn't know whether his starting QB is in La-La land, then that's just another reason he must go.
Last edited by municipalmutt on Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:19 pm

municipalmutt wrote:
FUDU wrote:Who has the final say on a players health in this situation, coach or trainers/medical staff?

Just sayin.


Sorry but that's the same convoluted logic that Joe Pa used to distance himself from Sandusky. "Well I told the AD about Uncle Feely Hands." The head coach has the final say about personnel decisions and he botched it whether he was cleared by the medics or not. End of story.

Personal responsibility seems to be a long lost virtue these days.


Oh fer fuck sake, if you think that these two situations are even remotely the same in any respect whatsoever, I don't know what to tell you.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby municipalmutt » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:25 pm

They are both a matter of someone taking personal responsibility to do what's right for fuck's sake. No one is responsible anymore. Everyone wants to pass the buck. If you think it's a bad analogy well then too bad.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby FUDU » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:26 pm

Yeah really muni?

...and FTR I was really asking a question.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Leasure » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:30 pm

im sorry but if the fans at home can see that he is glassy eyed,cant focus, and just plain not right through a tv screen than so should a medical staff. if they cleared him they need to be replaced. big ben came back out with a bum ankle its differnt with a screwed up brain. Its not showing toughness its showing the staffs despretness(cant spell) to win at all costs. which actually cost the game for colt. when he doesnt even remember throwing the pick his bell was rung and probably is still ringing. (inlove) (closest thing to bird around the head)
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby FUDU » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:51 pm

municipalmutt wrote:They are both a matter of someone taking personal responsibility to do what's right for fuck's sake. No one is responsible anymore. Everyone wants to pass the buck. If you think it's a bad analogy well then too bad.
Sorry but I think there is at least a little difference in just any Joe knowing child molestation needs to be reported and monitored as opposed to just any Joe having half a clue if someone else is in a concussed state.

Sandusky is going to jail to die, Shurmur is just going to get shit canned.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby bucknutz94 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:09 pm

turned the game off prior to the hit. I saw the replay this morning and then caught the controversy about putting the kid back in. This whole thing lends credence to the argument that Shurmur is in over his head.

Say what you want about McCoy but he is one tough sonofabitch. This, and the Texans game when he was getting drilled on every play prove that the Coach couldn't care less about the kid.

I would not be surprised if at some point this year McCoy's dad takes a swing at Shurmur. I would if he was my kid.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:11 pm

peeker643 wrote:You said, "trying to figure out which of your 6 plays to call next"

Six plays.

That's funny because the two I know are throw real short and run ineffectively. ;-) ;) :wink:

Anyhow, dude was down on the field, there was a TV timeout, etc. I'm saying he should have known. Maybe I'm overstating it because he does have numerous other responsibilities that he's busy being derelict on, but I don't think it's unreasonable to be talking to the kid and seeing he's fucked up.

Probably just my disgust for the whole season and system.


Hey, if this gets him fired, go ahead and pin it on him.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby pup » Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:59 am

This is now the second time, IMO, that Colt has directly made a quote to the media to show he wants no part of this Pat Shurmur QB guru.

He made the comment about not being able to audible out of the Alex Smith handoff and now he tells anyone that will listen...I got knocked the fuck out and this clown send me back on the field.

Not good.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:07 am

municipalmutt wrote:
FUDU wrote:Who has the final say on a players health in this situation, coach or trainers/medical staff?

Just sayin.


A)Sorry but that's the same convoluted logic that Joe Pa used to distance himself from Sandusky. "Well I told the AD about Uncle Feely Hands." The head coach has the final say about personnel decisions and he botched it whether he was cleared by the medics or not. End of story.

Personal responsibility seems to be a long lost virtue these days.

OR

B)If Shurmur is incompetent enough that he didn't know whether his starting QB is in La-La land, then that's just another reason he must go.


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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby leadpipe » Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:33 am

I would call the Browns a punchline, but someone's gotta give a shit to listen to the joke.

Fact of the matter is, the Cleveland Browns just don't count.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby swerb » Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:50 am

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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby General » Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:04 am

leadpipe wrote:I would call the Browns a punchline, but someone's gotta give a shit to listen to the joke.

Fact of the matter is, the Cleveland Browns just don't count.


I agree totally, I have been saying that the Browns are irrelevant to the NFL. The entire "rebirth" has been an awfully botched experiment like a low grade Pet Semetary remake.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:16 am

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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby swerb » Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:03 pm

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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby OldDawg » Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:13 pm

I am sorry. This is on the team doctors. Come on. DOCTORS!! You can be ticked at the coaches, but this is on the doctors. That is their job. C'mon, the game is going on, there are a million things going on that coaches are involved in. You have team doctors so coaches don't have to make decisions like this.

Sure, maybe a member of the coaching staff could/might have noticed something was amiss. However, if DOCTORS really did take the time to evaluate Colt for a period of time and really did think he was fine,
a) How would a coach see anything different,
b) That is what the DOCTORS are for.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby OldDawg » Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:18 pm

Now as far as Shurmer goes, he is on Holmgren.

Holmgren wanted to implement the west coast offense so bad, that his main criteria in selecting a head coach was just that... someone to put in the west coast offense. He forgot a million other factors that are critical in selecting a head coach. Namely leadership. Shurmer appears ro me to be the worst leader the Browns have had in my lifetime. And I am on Old Dawg.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby swerb » Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:22 pm

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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby FUDU » Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:27 pm

You had your son draw that didn't you?
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby swerb » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:13 am

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.s ... nduct.html

Browns didn't conduct the concussion test until the next day.

The uglier this gets, the better this gets for the Browns. This is Holmgren's out. To get rid of this bumbling idiot Shurmur, using this as the reason. Or at least a part of it. Helps him save face on the whole "this is the last coach I'm ever hiring" comment.

Lerner should make himself useful for once and exert his connections at the Cleveland Clinic to have them cook up some paperwork making this even worse for Shurmur.

There are two proven coaches out there with local ties and Super Bowl trophies: Jon Gruden and Bill Cowher.

Hire one of those two guys. Get your QB in the draft. Then we're cooking with gas.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Spin » Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:43 am

swerb wrote:http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/12/cleveland_browns_didnt_conduct.html

Browns didn't conduct the concussion test until the next day.


Oh no, this needs addressed from Walrus on down to the trainer. And the hospital they contract to have docs out there. That is the most rediculous thing I have heard in a long long time.

I'm an EMT, and play "trainer" for a college hockey team. Just from what an EMT knows, I do a much better evaluation on players than these jack-offs do. WTF?

I wanted something more concrete, in case a visiting coach or a parent/girlfriend questioned why I yanked a player (our coach never questions that) and in 2 seconds of searching the internet found this: http://www.cces.ca/files/pdfs/SCAT2[1].pdf (hav to copy and paste, the brackets screw up the link). Every coach should have this.

Endorsed and used by docs, trainers, coaches. What the fuck are these idiots doing waiting around til the next day to evaluate a player, let alone sending him back into the game????? Incredible. Yes you valuate them the next day too, but that's not the FIRST TIME YOU EVALUATE THEM. That's if the first test (during the game) was negative. JHC.

Hey Holmgren, the 70's called and they want their neanderthal procedures back.

These ass holes have seen the cumulative effects of concussions on retired players, they have seen the stories on TV about players and awareness (hell maybe they haven't). It's the fuckin buzz word in sports today. My 2 year old grand daughter could tell Colt was fucked up in the post game presser.

I want to find out what hospital system they contract with. I'm guessing CCF.

What a bunch on incompetent fucks.
Last edited by Spin on Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby swerb » Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:46 am

Screw all that. Find a way to pin it on Shurmur. Manufacture evidence if you must.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Spin » Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:49 am

swerb wrote:Screw all that. Find a way to pin it on Shurmur. Manufacture evidence if you must.


Nothing needs manufactured. He's as much at fault as anybody and needs to go.

But the whole thing shows how incompetent the whole "organization" is. And that IMO starts with Walrus.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby mistero » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:01 am

Is this story getting any play nationally? I haven't heard a peep about the Browns blowing the concussion test, Harrison getting suspended, or anything??

Seems like the media are sitting this one out.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby swerb » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:09 am

Spin wrote:
swerb wrote:Screw all that. Find a way to pin it on Shurmur. Manufacture evidence if you must.


Nothing needs manufactured. He's as much at fault as anybody and needs to go.

But the whole thing shows how incompetent the whole "organization" is. And that IMO starts with Walrus.

Just to be sure, I'd doctor up an audio tape that has McCoy saying "I can't play, I'm seeing triple!" With Shurmur's voice saying "I know you're concussed and I don't care. Get out there!"
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:14 am

Had a few tweets on my feed from guys who got hit, thought they were fine, only for the concussion to set in a while later. It still doesn't look good for the coaches or medical staff, but, uh, I see I'll be keeping my Kamp Krusty flag raised high again.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Spin » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:32 am

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:Had a few tweets on my feed from guys who got hit, thought they were fine, only for the concussion to set in a while later. It still doesn't look good for the coaches or medical staff, but, uh, I see I'll be keeping my Kamp Krusty flag raised high again.


True sometimes it's the next day before symptoms present. Which is why you retest the next day of your first test is negative.

In this case, he was unconscious, slurring and stammering and repeating in the presser, and IMO his play fell off a great deal after the hit. Either of the first two is a game ender.

Maybe the referees need to step in. Loss of consciousness, thinking they are on Neptune, can't finish a sentence, GAME OVER. Don't leave it up to the teams.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Spin » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:34 am

mistero wrote:Is this story getting any play nationally? I haven't heard a peep about the Browns blowing the concussion test, Harrison getting suspended, or anything??

Seems like the media are sitting this one out.


From what I heard on the radio this morning, it was brought up. Especially after Colt's paw went to the media. How much further it goes, we'll have to see.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:39 am

Dude was laid out on the field for a minute. Had to be walked off. Does not remember the hit or the play.

This was not a delayed reaction. This was the medical staff seeing him hold his left hand, assume it was a hand injury and not even consider the concussion. They may not have been willfully and wantonly negligent, but they were grossly negligent.

It's their fucking job. And they failed to do it.

Not gonna cry for McCoy. But the kid has gotten nothing but buckets full of shit from this organization. In almost every way imaginable.

Players notice that. The players here, the players in the league and the college players too. This entire organization is minor league.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:52 am

I'm not a doctor..... but it doesn't take one to realize the kid got his bell rung. Him laying there like a turtle on it's back was enough to suggest he probably shouldn't go back in.

This is a stupid organization from top to bottom, and given the choice between doing the right thing and wrong thing, they will pick the latter every goddamn time.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:01 pm

mistero wrote:Is this story getting any play nationally? I haven't heard a peep about the Browns blowing the concussion test, Harrison getting suspended, or anything??

Seems like the media are sitting this one out.


Wait till they find out Colt, in his concussed state, got a couple of free tats in exchange for his protective cup. The pressure from ESPN will be relentless. Mark May may get into the mix. It will be big. Really big.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby Spin » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:07 pm

mistero wrote:Is this story getting any play nationally? I haven't heard a peep about the Browns blowing the concussion test, Harrison getting suspended, or anything??

Seems like the media are sitting this one out.


Short answer, yeah.

Long answer,

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/73362 ... concussion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VASrGGsC234

http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... handling/1

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... oncussion/

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/footb ... e-1.989355

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdo ... fl-wp13586
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:16 pm

Yeah... Spin hits some of the pertinent links and I heard about this all day yesterday on radio and TV.

To be fair, almost everything is prefaced with how the Browns have been lauded for their adherence to the guidelines and typically have been proactive. I think Watson and Marecic were removed in the Pittsburgh game and didn't return. That's what makes it even more odd.

McCoy might just be Schleprock or a living embodiment of Murphy's Law where the Browns are concerned.
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Re: Concussed Colt

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:23 pm

Interesting perspective from someone who read my last couple articles in that he believes this probably doesn't happen (the McCoy concussion fiasco) if Shurmur isn't overwhelmed by his responsibilities as head coach AND offensive coordinator.
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