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OSU vs. KU

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OSU vs. KU

Unread postby furls » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:20 pm

Sucks the buckeyes will get their first loss, but Buckeye fans can take heart that they played KU close on the road without Sullinger. Sullinger is definitely a 10pt. upgrade over Williams and Ravenel. That said, I do like Williams individual skills on D. He will be a good defensive presence in the middle for tOSU in the coming years.
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Re: OSU vs. KU

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:42 pm

5/17 from 3-point range and Buford's career encapsulated in one game.

All I can say is, "Get well soon, Jared Sullinger".

Sullinger's obviously a huge, huge part of their game plan. But I have to tell ya, Kansas does not impress me. The point being without Sullinger, or against teams that can neutralize him with their own personnel as opposed to his absence, the Buckeyes can't rely on an outside game from anyone to pile up points. They can occasionally get those games from someone with a hot hand, but they can't rely on it.

And that could be a problem.
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Re: OSU vs. KU

Unread postby furls » Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:26 pm

Sullinger is one of the 3 or 4 best college basketball players (I am not postulating that he will be a good pro), you have to expect that when you go on the road against a decent team without your Naismith Finalist things will probably not go well.

Obviously the perimeter shooting is not as good as it was, but this team is much more athletic than last year's and it really isn't close. If you put a shooter on this team they are a legit final 4 team, without a shooter they will need breaks to get there.
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Re: OSU vs. KU

Unread postby furls » Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:28 pm

Hoosiers just took down Kentucky.
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Re: OSU vs. KU

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:47 pm

OSU is not a great team. At All.

Peeks is dead fucking on.
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Re: OSU vs. KU

Unread postby furls » Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:30 pm

Who is great this year? Who is that team? The UK team that just lost to an average Indiana team? The UNC team that took a bad loss earlier this year? The Duke team that OSU beat by 22?

There are no great teams this year, just like there were no great teams last year. There are some great players on good teams, but every team has warts. This OSU team looks promising in a year or two, lots of youth and some pretty good young players. None appear to be one and done. Only guy I can see leaving this year is Sullinger. Looks like a pretty wide open year to me.
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Re: OSU vs. KU

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:39 pm

WHY IN THE FUCK DO I HAVE TO LOG IN THREE OR FOUR TIMES BEFORE I CAN POST, ALWAYS, THIS FUCKING BOARD SUCKS

That said, all of college hoops sucks, you are dead on Furls. I just want to dampen expectations. This team could easily lose to about 10 other teams out there in the stupid tourney and I wouldn't be surprised.

I'm not asking to compare them to anyone, just asking for peeps to be ready for let down..... because it's coming.
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Re: OSU vs. KU

Unread postby FUDU » Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:26 pm

I won't disagree the let down could easily come, but I do think they could become a very very good team by the time March comes.

As good as Craft is I think he is a tad over rated if only in one respect, he doesn't break down his defender as much as you'd think he would with his quickness. Maybe I'm nitpicking, yeah I am but as much as you hear broadcasters/media/ourselves talk about his quickness he doesn't get to the hole as often as you'd think. Unless he does and I'm always missing it by grabbing another beer.

:shrug

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Re: OSU vs. KU

Unread postby Squints » Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:47 pm

Can't be surprised at all that the Bucks lost their first game on the road to a good team in a tough place to play without their best player.

However, did anyone else see the small tribute to Brent Darby's passing? First I heard of that. RIP Brent, you were one of the good ones.
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Re: OSU vs. KU

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:53 am

e0y2e3 wrote:WHY IN THE FUCK DO I HAVE TO LOG IN THREE OR FOUR TIMES BEFORE I CAN POST, ALWAYS, THIS FUCKING BOARD SUCKS


Clear your cookies.

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Re: OSU vs. KU

Unread postby furls » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:33 am

Unless your team is truly elite, you really cannot EXPECT anything better than sweet 16. A good team (1-2 seed) should be able to beat an 8-9 seed to win a sweet 16. After that, it becomes much less clear.

I would go once step further Lee and say that this tOSU team could lose to probably 25 teams in the tournament based match ups. There are some pretty obvious problems on this team. I would say that the blue print to beating this tOSU team is different than last years, but they are still equally vulnerable.

This teams worst nightmare is a team with a big thug on the inside (see UK in the tourney last year) that can play a disciplined zone. Play the 2-3 or Box and one and make this team beat you at the arc. Last year, UK was this team's worst possible match up... big thug on the outside and enough athleticism to aggressively guard the perimeter.

This year's team doesn't have the shooters to kill you at the perimeter, but the team is more athletic. Craft, as much as I like him, is not a good shooter and does not really have the bounce to make teams pay in a zone.
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Re: OSU vs. KU

Unread postby pup » Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:13 pm

Let's see what Mr. Ross brings to the perimeter before we throw the dirt on this squad.
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Re: OSU vs. KU

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:33 pm

If Sullinger played, OSU would win in a walk. Kansas would not have gotten so many second chance points, they would've had to double team him down low. Are they perfect? No, no at all, but they're clearly one of the best 4 teams in the country.
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Re: OSU vs. KU

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:57 pm

Christ. I'll just not mention any potential weaknesses. I should really fucking know better than to point out deficiencies with La Familia.

I didn't say they weren't one of the top five or six teams in the country.

I didn't say they were doomed.

I don't recall heaping dirt on their grave.

I didn't say it's not a different game with Sullinger against a mediocre Kansas team.

I said they don't have a knock-down three point threat that would make defenses pay for collapsing on Sullinger and shutting off Craft's penetration.

If Thomas...if Ross...if Buford....

That's the whole fucking point.

They DID have all of that last year and still shit the bed. They're missing an important component to the college game. It's not fatal against shit teams but it could be against the very best.

If you're not fluffing this school's crank around here people get amusingly pissy.

And BTW, I already wrote about this element of the Buckeyes game in tWW. So don't blow an aorta or cry about it if you read it there? It was written last night.
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Re: OSU vs. KU

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:11 pm

Oh wow.

Angry bald man is angry.

None of what I said was even directed at you. Just my opinion on what I saw.

Now dance for me.
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Re: OSU vs. KU

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:03 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Oh wow.

Angry bald man is angry.

None of what I said was even directed at you. Just my opinion on what I saw.

Now dance for me.


I'm not angry. I forgot temporarily that an honest critique/opinion is grounds for defensive ramblings and excuses.

Then I remembered the institution I was talking about.
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Re: OSU vs. KU

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:07 pm

Ok yeah that's great. Now get in your truck and drive down here and have some Woodford Reserve. Pussy.
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Re: OSU vs. KU

Unread postby furls » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:33 pm

peeker643 wrote:Christ. I'll just not mention any potential weaknesses. I should really fucking know better than to point out deficiencies with La Familia.

I didn't say they weren't one of the top five or six teams in the country.

I didn't say they were doomed.

I don't recall heaping dirt on their grave.

I didn't say it's not a different game with Sullinger against a mediocre Kansas team.

I said they don't have a knock-down three point threat that would make defenses pay for collapsing on Sullinger and shutting off Craft's penetration.

If Thomas...if Ross...if Buford....

That's the whole fucking point.

They DID have all of that last year and still shit the bed. They're missing an important component to the college game. It's not fatal against shit teams but it could be against the very best.

If you're not fluffing this school's crank around here people get amusingly pissy.

And BTW, I already wrote about this element of the Buckeyes game in tWW. So don't blow an aorta or cry about it if you read it there? It was written last night.


Butt hurt much? Holy christ. Not one person disagreed with you. No one said you were out to lunch, no one is under the illusion that this team is the second coming of the 1992 UNLV Runnin' Rebs.

tOSU is still a good team in a year with no great teams. That has been the gist of every post I have read thus far. You pointed to the great 3 point shooting last year, but you left out what really cost this team.... no athletes on nthe perimeter and that is still a problem. Buford is the only guy on the perimeter that can create his own shot.

Last year, against UK, tOSU paid because they did not have players that could D up on UK superior athletes. They have that this year, they don't have shooters this year. If they had shooters who could D up, they would already be in the league and that is the problem with the one and done NCAA.
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Re: OSU vs. KU

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:57 pm

No athletes on the perimeter is not the problem. Craft, Buford and Thomas are all athletic. Extremely athletic.

Not enough shooters on the perimeter is the problem.

That's a different animal.

And Knight, Lamb and Jones were a combined 8/25 shooting that night.

The Buckeyes got waxed because Buford was abysmal from the floor and because Josh Harrelson abused OSU inside.
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Re: OSU vs. KU

Unread postby noles1 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:01 pm

By tourney time, I would suspect the UK is going to be a nightmare for whomever is on their side of the bracket.

Still this year could very well be all about who's playing their best bball at the time and what type of matchups get lined up.

OSU definitely has holes as does basically every team. To be honest, I don't think any team in the Top 10 has wowed me with perimeter shooting. Then again, it's early and a lot of these teams will be much different by February.
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Re: OSU vs. KU

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:17 pm

To be clear, I think OSU has as good a shot as anyone. And I think they'll be much more settled in 2 months than they are today as well.

And I agree there is nothing dominant out there.

I'm saying there is going to come a time in March when they and we will regret that they have no zone buster. Only a couple teams out there can get the Buckeyes to that point (with Sullinger healthy).

I'm also saying in this forum, when you bring up criticisms of the Buckeyes in any regard, you get people making excuses and stammering like you just offended their mothers. ;-) ;) :wink:

It's an immediate (and what appears to be an involuntary) reaction in most cases.
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Re: OSU vs. KU

Unread postby noles1 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:49 pm

Agree, I think you're spot on. My only devil's advocate counter would be that their while Bucks do have that major flaw, they may be fortunate enough not to have to be confronted with it. Unfortunately thing is, the Big 10 is not going to be a league this year that can pull their weaknesses out (much like last year), therefore all our expectations are likely to be increasing high the further we get thru the year.

And the Sweet 16 comments are spot on. With the parity throughout college bball once you get thru there anything can happen. See VCU and Butler.

Buford in the first half yesterday was about as bad as senior could be. When he went into the post I was intrigued but when he did, it meant zero outside shooter. At this point I think when you look at Jordan Sibert you can't help but be incredibly disappointed. Bucks really needed him to be that guy. Maybe the Ross kid fills that void but I am always skeptical of practice guys and mid-season adds. I need to see it first.
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Re: OSU vs. KU

Unread postby furls » Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:29 am

peeker643 wrote:No athletes on the perimeter is not the problem. Craft, Buford and Thomas are all athletic. Extremely athletic.

Not enough shooters on the perimeter is the problem.

That's a different animal.

And Knight, Lamb and Jones were a combined 8/25 shooting that night.

The Buckeyes got waxed because Buford was abysmal from the floor and because Josh Harrelson abused OSU inside.


Thomas is neither on the perimeter nor athletic. He pops a lot of 3's, but he is not a wing player. Aaron Craft cannot make his own shot partly because he cannot shoot, partly because he doesn't have that kind of bounce. He gets to the rim, but he is not a guy that is going to be an awful match up for other teams because of his bounce.

Buford was epically bad against UK last year, if he has a decent day shooting the ball, they win. The perimeter shooting that you are championing did not save tOSU last year. So the big differences between last year's team and this year's team....

Diebler is gone. No more 50% 3pt shooter from the perimeter. Diebler was a below average passer, poor ball handler, barely a rebounder and a defensive liability. Great guy to have on the team, seriously... he is instant offense, but it came at a cost.

Lighty is gone. Probably a bigger loss than Diebler. Great defender, good athlete, decent scorer. Could check just about anyone in the ball park of his size. Decent 3pt shooter too.

Lauderdale is gone. Ravennel is an upgrade.

Thomas is a starter. Good rebounder, better scorer than Lighty. Poor defender, low motor guy.

Still no established 2 to replace Diebler, but it is either Smith, Sibert or Ross. The only thing that all three don't do better than Diebler is knock down 3's.

OSU is shooting .328 from 3 this year; Last year's final 4 teams:
UConn shot .329
Butler shot .352
VCU shot .370
UK shot .397

Not one team over 40%. You don't have to shoot .423% (tOSU's number for last year).


Remember, this team is young and will improve through the season. Buford is the only veteran. The rest are sophomores at best.
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