Good God Almighty

[Lubber]

Nope, sorry, I've watched four Tebow games now and he's a shitty passer that is getting away with running around and dumping off shitty passes that are being broken for long gains.

He has no touch, his accuracy is feh, he's a bad QB on the whole.

A bad QB who is THREE DEFENSIVE TOUCHDOWNS away from THREE LOSES. His defense has played much better since he took over, Willis is going off and he has literally been bailed out three times.

This isn't the Packers winning by 28 instead of 21, this is you and every other idiot screaming about wins being all that matters when he has been gifted those wins.

Cam is a real quarterback, Tebow is a fasination that is dated.

If he were a good QB I'd have no problem admitting as such, I don't hate him because he's some Geezes Fanboi, I don't like being told how awesome he is every single freaking week when I watch the games and he just isn't.

It's one of the biggest utilizations of smoke and mirrors I've ever seen in sports.

Isn't the point of the game to score more points than your opponent, to win in anyway legally possible? I was not away there were style points given.

Actually two of the games in which Green Bay scored defensive touchdowns would of been losses without those INTs. I really wish you would examine the facts before spewing your propaganda.

[Lubber]

And Flacco's name doesn't deserve being anywhere near any of the other elite QBs. He's as meh as they come.

Put Tebow on the Ravens with their running game and defense? Super Bowl Contender for sure.

With the Stillers in their division?

They are a contender now with Flacco playing Jekyll and Hyde every week. At least Tebow would not turn the ball over as much.

[mattvan1]

If he were a good QB I'd have no problem admitting as such, I don't hate him because he's some Geezes Fanboi, I don't like being told how awesome he is every single freaking week when I watch the games and he just isn't.

Bingo.

The one thing, and only one thing I find interesting is the momentum/positive belief effect - by the entire team - not just in Tebow, but in themselves. The mental aspect is so overlooked - a few come from behinds and soon you begin to believe that there is no way you won't win. What we're seeing in the Broncos may have been started by one guy, but it's way more than just Tebow at this point.

BTW, how does a first round pick suddenly become this slapdick POS destined to fail? That's the thing I don't understand - this whole story is so out of control as if Tebow rose from the slums of Calcutta and despite his withered arm went on to become the first blind QB to play in the NFL. He is being persected just like my savior Jesus Christ!!!!!

BTW II, Joe Kapp was Tim Teebow about 40 years ago.

[Lubber]

I like Lubber too. Nothing I say to him is personal at all. I just disagree with his ridiculous argument that Tebow is a "winner" and can lead the Broncos to the Super Bowl.

If Tebow ever does that I'll admit that I was wrong and if I see Lubber at the bar i'll tell him so and buy him a beer. Then I'll kick him in the nuts. But that's just because

tnwerjkl;
thejwklt

Super Bowl is a stretch - at least for this year. But I do believe he can lead them to the playoffs, and if Dirty Sanchez can take a team twice within a whisker of the Super Bowl, I see no reason why Tebow cannot with a similar style team (although the Jets defense is much better). We will see how they match up against the Patriots in a week and a half. That will be a good barometer. Mother - where would you rank the Broncos right now in the AFC. I would say Patriots, Ravens (only if Lewis comes back), Steelers, Denver/Houston (Houston could move up depending on the QB), Jets/Raiders.

I be sure to have my cup on when you buy me that Corona Light

[e0y2e3]

Nope, sorry, I've watched four Tebow games now and he's a shitty passer that is getting away with running around and dumping off shitty passes that are being broken for long gains.

He has no touch, his accuracy is feh, he's a bad QB on the whole.

A bad QB who is THREE DEFENSIVE TOUCHDOWNS away from THREE LOSES. His defense has played much better since he took over, Willis is going off and he has literally been bailed out three times.

This isn't the Packers winning by 28 instead of 21, this is you and every other idiot screaming about wins being all that matters when he has been gifted those wins.

Cam is a real quarterback, Tebow is a fasination that is dated.

If he were a good QB I'd have no problem admitting as such, I don't hate him because he's some Geezes Fanboi, I don't like being told how awesome he is every single freaking week when I watch the games and he just isn't.

It's one of the biggest utilizations of smoke and mirrors I've ever seen in sports.

Isn't the point of the game to score more points than your opponent, to win in anyway legally possible? I was not away there were style points given.

Actually two of the games in which Green Bay scored defensive touchdowns would of been losses without those INTs. I really wish you would examine the facts before spewing your propaganda.

~50% of Tim Tebows wins are thanks to a defensive TD.

A WEE LITTLE BIT OF A BIGGER DEAL THAN ROGERS AND HIS TWO GAMES SWAYED!!!

And can we investigate average PPG scored by Rogers versus TEEBOOOW in those games with the defensive TDs? It won't tell a pretty story for you.

[motherscratcher]

Isn't the point of the game to score more points than your opponent, to win in anyway legally possible? I was not away there were style points given.

Actually two of the games in which Green Bay scored defensive touchdowns would of been losses without those INTs. I really wish you would examine the facts before spewing your propaganda.

Ha Ha Ha You dumb bastard.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Here's where you fail logically Lubber.

A follows B...therefore B caused A
A = Broncos win
B = Tebow

Sure, the Broncos have won games, but it is false to say that it is because of Tebow. Especially if you've actually watched him play. He is inacurate and the type of offense that the Broncos run (necessarily because it's the only type of Offense he CAN run) is a long term losing proposition.

[Lubber]

~50% of Tim Tebows wins are thanks to a defensive TD.

A WEE LITTLE BIT OF A BIGGER DEAL THAN ROGERS AND HIS TWO GAMES SWAYED!!!

And can we investigate average PPG scored by Rogers versus TEEBOOOW in those games with the defensive TDs? It won't tell a pretty story for you.

You are comparing him to the best QB in the game. Nobody is going to match up to him. I never claimed Tebow was as good as Rodgers.

Lastly 2 games out of 6 wins = 33%, not quite the 50% your propagate. If 17% is your defintion of ~, then it is not "A WEE LITTLE BIT OF A BIGGER DEAL THAN ROGERS AND HIS TWO GAMES SWAYED!!!", it is only a ~ bit since there 16% difference in games swayed between Denver and Green Bay. Once again, please do just a little bit of fact finding before spreading faslehoods. It might just be easier to say "Tebow sucks because I don't like him", signed e0y2e3.

[Lubber]

Isn't the point of the game to score more points than your opponent, to win in anyway legally possible? I was not away there were style points given.

Actually two of the games in which Green Bay scored defensive touchdowns would of been losses without those INTs. I really wish you would examine the facts before spewing your propaganda.

Here's where you fail logically Lubber.

A follows B...therefore B caused A
A = Broncos win
B = Tebow

Sure, the Broncos have won games, but it is false to say that it is because of Tebow. Especially if you've actually watched him play. He is inacurate and the type of offense that the Broncos run (necessarily because it's the only type of Offense he CAN run) is a long term losing proposition.

BT (Before Tebow) - 1-4
AT (After Tebow) - 6-1

Simple logic.

[motherscratcher]

BT (Before Tebow) - 1-4
AT (After Tebow) - 6-1

Simple logic.

Take a logic class.

As my prof used to say: "You can't just willy nilly turn everything in the universe into a cow."

[motherscratcher]

Mother - where would you rank the Broncos right now in the AFC. I would say Patriots, Ravens (only if Lewis comes back), Steelers, Denver/Houston (Houston could move up depending on the QB), Jets/Raiders.

I be sure to have my cup on when you buy me that Corona Light

I would put them behind NE, Pitt, Baltimore, Cinci, Tennessee, the Jets, and Houston is a toss up (can't see them overcoming the QB problem). Possibly even the Chargers based on how they looked last night. Too little too late for the Chargers though.

Carona Light? I'll buy you a better beer than that dude.

[FUDU]

I'm going to say this before I shower, Lee is right and said it in a way that hasn't been said on this board yet, to my knowledge.

I also agree with Rich in that it is much like the Tiger Woods effect in golf, if you neither rooted for or against Tiger. However Tiger was exceptional at what he did, even when he didn't win. That is why myself and IMO most of America could get behind him.

Tebow deserves credit for the Broncos season, he does not deserve being over credited.

[Lubber]

Mother - where would you rank the Broncos right now in the AFC. I would say Patriots, Ravens (only if Lewis comes back), Steelers, Denver/Houston (Houston could move up depending on the QB), Jets/Raiders.

I be sure to have my cup on when you buy me that Corona Light

I would put them behind NE, Pitt, Baltimore, Cinci, Tennessee, the Jets, and Houston is a toss up (can't see them overcoming the QB problem). Possibly even the Chargers based on how they looked last night. Too little too late for the Chargers though.

Carona Light? I'll buy you a better beer than that dude.

They already beat the Jets. You like Tennessee that high huh? The Chargers has probably the best overall talent (at least on offense), but they cannot seem to put it together, and Rivers turns the ball over too much. I would put the Chargers in 4th, but they will not be able to make the playoffs as you said, too little to late. I was on the Cincy bandwagon early, but I think you got them a bit high. 2-3 in last five games, and should of lost to the Brownies.

[FUDU]

In addition, Denver's defense is 25th in allowing points, 13 spots worse than the Brownies. That argument does not hold any water.

Forget who brought up the point of Denver's D being over rated or something, but using these team unit rankings and team stats is not always useful or even that accurate in making comparisons or arguments as we have here. There are just way too many circumstances from game to game that lead to stats being over inflated or skewed in some way shape or form.

[motherscratcher]

I wasn't ranking them, just listing the teams I think are better than Denver.

[FUDU]

I wasn't ranking them, just listing the teams I think are better than Denver.

My post wasn't referring to you for FTR.

[motherscratcher]

I wasn't ranking them, just listing the teams I think are better than Denver.

My post wasn't referring to you for FTR.

I know, I was responding to Lubber there.

[FUDU]

OK we could do this all day.

[scrambler]

~50% of Tim Tebows wins are thanks to a defensive TD.

A WEE LITTLE BIT OF A BIGGER DEAL THAN ROGERS AND HIS TWO GAMES SWAYED!!!

And can we investigate average PPG scored by Rogers versus TEEBOOOW in those games with the defensive TDs? It won't tell a pretty story for you.

You know, I just can't see how last week you credit only the defensive TD for the win. I would say the main reason they won is 3 times they got down 8 points and 3 times Tebow led them down the field to pull within 1 or tie it and then led them to tie it down 3 again. All you saw was the defensive TD?? He's not a great passer overall, but he's made quite a few great passes this year late game situations. The 3rd and long pass to Decker against SD was perfection and put in the only spot the guy could make the catch. I can't really credit him for the multitude of wide open deep balls to Thomas last week, but his best pass was the incomplete before the game tying field goal...3rd and long, drilled on a blitz and he put it right in his hands...perfection.

He's not Aaron Rodgers and I'm not sure anyone said he is. He's not even close. But to compare him to the best quarterback in the game is pretty silly. Drew Brees isn't as good as Aaron Rodgers either, neither is Tom Brady. YOu got everyone there, Tebow isn't as good as Rodgers (or Brees or Brady!!).

He made three starts in McDanels high volume passing offense last year and perfromed admirably in that too.

[scrambler]

In addition, Denver's defense is 25th in allowing points, 13 spots worse than the Brownies. That argument does not hold any water.

Forget who brought up the point of Denver's D being over rated or something, but using these team unit rankings and team stats is not always useful or even that accurate in making comparisons or arguments as we have here. There are just way too many circumstances from game to game that lead to stats being over inflated or skewed in some way shape or form.

I did that and you are 100 percent correct...but Denver's D is simply not a great defense I believe. I was using them to try to argue TEbow has been a good quarterback this year.

[FUDU]

In addition, Denver's defense is 25th in allowing points, 13 spots worse than the Brownies. That argument does not hold any water.

Forget who brought up the point of Denver's D being over rated or something, but using these team unit rankings and team stats is not always useful or even that accurate in making comparisons or arguments as we have here. There are just way too many circumstances from game to game that lead to stats being over inflated or skewed in some way shape or form.

I did that and you are 100 percent correct...but Denver's D is simply not a great defense I believe. I was using them to try to argue TEbow has been a good quarterback this year.

If you're going to give Tebow credit for some late game play making, and the guy does deserve some of that credit, than you also have to acknowledge the reason Denver has trailed so often in games Tebow started is b/c in part due to Tebow's play prior to the 4th quarter.

Personally I take issue with comparing a team like Denver's D to Cleveland's D to make the point that the former isn't all that. I mean have you even seen our D against legit offenses this year?

[scrambler]

/quote]

I did that and you are 100 percent correct...but Denver's D is simply not a great defense I believe. I was using them to try to argue TEbow has been a good quarterback this year.

If you're going to give Tebow credit for some late game play making, and the guy does deserve some of that credit, than you also have to acknowledge the reason Denver has trailed so often in games Tebow started is b/c in part due to Tebow's play prior to the 4th quarter.

Personally I take issue with comparing a team like Denver's D to Cleveland's D to make the point that the former isn't all that. I mean have you even seen our D against legit offenses this year?

These are all good points that I really can't argue with. I do think Tebow's played pretty wll all things considered this year and does deserve some credit for the team's success as does the defense and running game etc. The only sad thing is the most interesting thing about the Browns season is talking about Tim Tebow!!

[e0y2e3]

I had a long reply here and these shitty boards ate it.

I'll leave you with this, without three defensive touchdowns three comeback drives never happen, three losses happen and I don't have to read people telling me on a message board that Tim Tebow (a guy whose quality NFL throws can be counted on one hand) is a gawd damn good quarterback.

Tavarious Jackson is having a better year.

[Lubber]

I had a long reply here and these shitty boards ate it.

I'll leave you with this, without three defensive touchdowns three comeback drives never happen, three losses happen and I don't have to read people telling me on a message board that Tim Tebow (a guy whose quality NFL throws can be counted on one hand) is a gawd damn good quarterback.

Tavarious Jackson is having a better year.

e0y2e3, once again I implore you to check your facts before posting. Was your long reply filled with more half-truths?

One of the games they scored a D-TD in was a loss.

You could do all kinds of IF scenarios for many teams. Point is, they are 6-1 since he took over. Like it or not that is the facts!

TJ a better QB? 10 TDs to 12 INTS? Compared to 10TDs and 1 INTS? 5-5 compared to 6-1?

Keep trying. Sooner or later you will post something fully true.

[e0y2e3]

Watch. The. Games.

I do, I implore you to.

And TD - Int stats don't matter if you are willing your team to victory, right?!

[e0y2e3]

BTW, why wasn't anyone calling Kyle Orton Geezes when he had a shitty Denver team at 6-0 with smoke and mirrors last year?

Because he doesn't wear bible versus on his eyeblack? Because that's really the only difference. Both were winning games they shouldn't by the skin of their teeth in a manor that will not hold up.

[Lubber]

Watch. The. Games.

I do, I implore you to.

And TD - Int stats don't matter if you are willing your team to victory, right?!

I keep watching, and I keep seeing a guy who seems to make the big plays in the 4th quarter and OT. Isn't that how a good player is separated from the so-so players? It is one of the main reasons Flacco has not led Ravens to the promised land. Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Ben, and now Tebow have that 4th quarter magic.

TD-int stats are key! This has been the main reason Tebow has thrived. He does not turn the ball over. His will to turn off all the naysayers leads him to do well, so they actually go hand in hand.

[e0y2e3]

7 game sample sizes (with some wee little turnover problems last game) certainly dictate a guy as good at protecting the ball.

He doesn't have INTs because he can't generate enough offense to generate a high number of throws/picks. Fucking eh, dump off... dump off... dump off... it never ends.

I'm glad a good drive a game has you sold.

He's a shitty QB.

And you are the one claiming that what you do at the end of the game is all that matters. By that logic you cannot argue about picks and TDs. ALL THAT MATTERS IS BEING A CLOSER!!@$!!

I'm out. You and scrambler can return to your rebellion against reality.

KYLE ORTON - 2010 - 4 LIFE

[Lubber]

7 game sample sizes (with some wee little turnover problems last game) certainly dictate a guy as good at protecting the ball.

He doesn't have INTs because he can't generate enough offense to generate a high number of throws/picks. Fucking eh, dump off... dump off... dump off... it never ends.

I'm glad a good drive a game has you sold.

He's a shitty QB.

And you are the one claiming that what you do at the end of the game is all that matters. By that logic you cannot argue about picks and TDs. ALL THAT MATTERS IS BEING A CLOSER!!@$!!

I'm out. You and scrambler can return to your rebellion against reality.

KYLE ORTON - 2010 - 4 LIFE

Good riddens. See you later. You are welcome back when you present some facts and do not twist words arounds. Never said the end of game is ALL that matter. I said it is what separates the good ones from the average players.

Your boy Orton generated the same number of throws this year, but somehow threw 7 more of them to the other team. You are smart to get out while you can.

[hiko]

Lead was right... I got sucked back in...

Critics should just blame the media. It's a storyline and his 15 minutes of fame has lasted longer than anyone could have imagined. As stated, if they don't like it or him, don't watch the Broncos play.

I do blame the media. I don't watch the Broncos play. Like the Steelers and LeBron James, I don't watch things that annoy me. Tebow himself doesn't annoy me, but watching him throw the ball and run that style of "offense" does. It's ugly to behold and makes me shake my head in wonderment about how it is working. The Tebow Media Circus also annoys me, so the channel goes off the second they bring Tebow up.

Guy I know who is an atheist said to me "why doesn't he make reference of the Easter Bunny or Santa every time he is on tv, those are made up characters as well". That is his opinion just as Tebow has his. If people are offended by Tebow talking about his relationship with Jesus Christ, that's their problem.

I'm an atheist, and I couldn't give 2 fucks about his beliefs. Like most atheists, I too feel that God/Christ/Allah/Vishnu is the equivalent of Santa for adults. But that's just my lowly opinion; I don't begrudge anyone their beliefs - it's not like anyone can prove that anyone else is wrong. I know how Tebow feels about Christ, he has every right to feel that way and I don't care if he falls to his knees in prayer after every play. I'm surprised more Christians - if they truly believe what they say they believe - don't do the same. I do get pissed off when people try to ram their beliefs down other people's throats, but that's not what he's doing. He's giving thanks to his god, not handing out literature door-to-door.

Pundits feel Tebow is destined to fail both in the league and eventually, in life.

Wha...? How is failing in the NFL failing in life? You can fail in both, one, or neither. They are not synonymous.

There are many who don't like his ability to be genuine. They want scandal and idiocy. Those are the athletes we should applaud and hold in high esteem.

Here's where I tell you not to be a sucker.

His ability to be genuine? How do you know he's genuine? Because he seems genuine? How do you know this isn't all a great act (that's working quite well, by the way)? How do you know he's not a real dick in private?

It is likely that he IS genuine, but OJ seemed like a good guy 'til he killed his wife. Joe Pa seemed like a good guy 'til he let his buddy get away with child molestation. I betcha that girl in Georgia thought POS was a good guy 'til he raped her in the bathroom. Especially in this day and age, to latch onto a celebrity for who you think they are is incredibly naive.

We don't know any of these dudes, and I for one ain't gonna go "applauding" or "holding in high esteem" anyone I don't KNOW deserves it.

Probably shouldn't do it anyway. We're the dumb fucks that give these athletes the egos we hate so much.

[mattvan1]

You are welcome back when you present some facts and do not twist words arounds.

That is fucking rich coming from Macphisto's little brother whose last venture onto these boards was in defense of a rapist. Nicely done.

[Orenthal]

If he were a good QB I'd have no problem admitting as such, I don't hate him because he's some Geezes Fanboi, I don't like being told how awesome he is every single freaking week when I watch the games and he just isn't.

Bingo.

The one thing, and only one thing I find interesting is the momentum/positive belief effect - by the entire team - not just in Tebow, but in themselves. The mental aspect is so overlooked - a few come from behinds and soon you begin to believe that there is no way you won't win. What we're seeing in the Broncos may have been started by one guy, but it's way more than just Tebow at this point.

Yep those Broncos are the new Crusaders. With God on your side how can you lose...

[Orenthal]

BT (Before Tebow) - 1-4
AT (After Tebow) - 6-1

Simple logic.

Take a logic class.

As my prof used to say: "You can't just willy nilly turn everything in the universe into a cow."

No this makes sense. Everytime I take a shit the seat is cold. My ass and legs must be making the seat cold. It's never cold when I'm not taking a shit...

[Orenthal]

Remember when Derek Anderson was a good QB.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Remember when Derek Anderson was a good QB.

Yeah....that was a great day

[Triple-S]

Remember when Derek Anderson was a good QB.

1 game away from being division champs and hosting a playoff game.

Why did they not run the ball in Cincy that afternoon? :(.

[leadpipe]

Lead was right... I got sucked back in...

Critics should just blame the media. It's a storyline and his 15 minutes of fame has lasted longer than anyone could have imagined. As stated, if they don't like it or him, don't watch the Broncos play.

I do blame the media. I don't watch the Broncos play. Like the Steelers and LeBron James, I don't watch things that annoy me. Tebow himself doesn't annoy me, but watching him throw the ball and run that style of "offense" does. It's ugly to behold and makes me shake my head in wonderment about how it is working. The Tebow Media Circus also annoys me, so the channel goes off the second they bring Tebow up.

Guy I know who is an atheist said to me "why doesn't he make reference of the Easter Bunny or Santa every time he is on tv, those are made up characters as well". That is his opinion just as Tebow has his. If people are offended by Tebow talking about his relationship with Jesus Christ, that's their problem.

I'm an atheist, and I couldn't give 2 fucks about his beliefs. Like most atheists, I too feel that God/Christ/Allah/Vishnu is the equivalent of Santa for adults. But that's just my lowly opinion; I don't begrudge anyone their beliefs - it's not like anyone can prove that anyone else is wrong. I know how Tebow feels about Christ, he has every right to feel that way and I don't care if he falls to his knees in prayer after every play. I'm surprised more Christians - if they truly believe what they say they believe - don't do the same. I do get pissed off when people try to ram their beliefs down other people's throats, but that's not what he's doing. He's giving thanks to his god, not handing out literature door-to-door.

Pundits feel Tebow is destined to fail both in the league and eventually, in life.

Wha...? How is failing in the NFL failing in life? You can fail in both, one, or neither. They are not synonymous.

There are many who don't like his ability to be genuine. They want scandal and idiocy. Those are the athletes we should applaud and hold in high esteem.

Here's where I tell you not to be a sucker.

His ability to be genuine? How do you know he's genuine? Because he seems genuine? How do you know this isn't all a great act (that's working quite well, by the way)? How do you know he's not a real dick in private?

It is likely that he IS genuine, but OJ seemed like a good guy 'til he killed his wife. Joe Pa seemed like a good guy 'til he let his buddy get away with child molestation. I betcha that girl in Georgia thought POS was a good guy 'til he raped her in the bathroom. Especially in this day and age, to latch onto a celebrity for who you think they are is incredibly naive.

We don't know any of these dudes, and I for one ain't gonna go "applauding" or "holding in high esteem" anyone I don't KNOW deserves it.

Probably shouldn't do it anyway. We're the dumb fucks that give these athletes the egos we hate so much.

He got you Hiko.

It is useless.

You could have the physical and mental strength of a hundred men, and still you would be overpowered by the great disciple.

[e0y2e3]

Bomani Jones has been going after Teabow on Around The Horn all year.

You should see the emails and tweets he gets sent he was far calling a spade a spade on the field. I mean he's getting hundreds and hundreds of hate mails a day.

It's the damnest thing I've ever seen in sports.

I mean even dumb ass Browns Fans just hoped to trade DA for a first round pick, nothing remotely like this.

[leadpipe]

Bomani Jones has been going after Teabow on Around The Horn all year.

You should see the emails and tweets he gets sent he was far calling a spade a spade on the field. I mean he's getting hundreds and hundreds of hate mails a day.

It's the damnest thing I've ever seen in sports.

I mean even dumb ass Browns Fans just hoped to trade DA for a first round pick, nothing remotely like this.

This is part of the fascination on my part with this whole thing.

There's just so few in the middle.

I've told my feelings upthread - that I have significant doubts about any sustained success, however, I really like the guy and hope he does well.

But even just this thread, there's nobody saying, "He's doing some nice things, but I'm not sure about the future." Instead, "Fucking guys lucking out with onside kicks or he wouldn't win shit."

or

There's no "Tebow seems to have that something at the end of games, but I'd like to see a few more tangible qualities if that is to continue. Instead it's "The Tebow magic! All the guy does is win games!!"

And it's not just stupid fans, I love the guys like Jones and Cris Carter, who seem more defiant about this than any subject they've ever commented on. And really, in regard to on field play, I agree with the doubts of a big future, but it just seems like it would KILL those guys to even say something harmless like, "well, he passed the ball a little better this week - still aways to go...." Aslmost get the feeling these guys are sweating Bronco games just to wait for the shoe to drop.

Klosterman's article on Grantland was pretty interesting I thought, mainly because it was coming from a viewpoint I'm expressing here - not passing judgement on him on the field or off, just commenting on how this whole Tebow thing is running rampant. Anyone ho bothers to read this thread should check it out.

And by the way, it's ALL media. Tebow is religious, but as Hiko says, he's not shoving it down throats. The media is. He's not promoting the savior shit. The media is. He's not putting himself on the national telecast....and on and on.

[hiko]

Just watched this commercial again...



Oh, AND he's saving his virginity for marriage...



I find it so hard to buy this guy. Nigh impossible. Just a cynic, I guess.

[e0y2e3]

Honestly, if people could just admit that to date he is a pretty shitty QB I wouldn't even notice the whole thing.

And you are correct he had his best game ever throwing the ball this week. It also happened to be against the worst defense back field the league will see for a single game this year and involved more run around, ten yard dump off, pray D Thomas runs...

But yeah, I agree lead. Tebow has officially taken the world over and is one of the damndest things I have ever seen.

[Orenthal]

Eh, I think many start in that middle ground. Guy is winning games, or team is winning games, either way they are winning and Fox tailored the game to his QB. It is most likely not sustainable and prolly won't make noise in the playoffs. Though weirder shit has happened and the aura could develop for a run.

I think people* go hyper partisan after the media blitz, and that eccentuates their lean pos/neg.

*most

[Lubber]

And it's not just stupid fans, I love the guys like Jones and Cris Carter, who seem more defiant about this than any subject they've ever commented on. And really, in regard to on field play, I agree with the doubts of a big future, but it just seems like it would KILL those guys to even say something harmless like, "well, he passed the ball a little better this week - still aways to go...." Aslmost get the feeling these guys are sweating Bronco games just to wait for the shoe to drop..

Watching Carter the last couple of weeks has been very entertaining Lead. Usually he is one of the first to bandwagon a player's success in the league, but he seem so stubborn to not give Tebow any props at all.

With regards to being a shitty QB, I guess that depends on your defintion of QB. To me, it is soomebody who is in control of the offense and makes plays and helps puts his teammates in the best position to make plays. Others may define it as a guy who can throw a ball through the goalposts from 70 yards. If that is how you define a QB, then yes, Tim is shitty. Montana was not your prototypical QB (and I am not comparing Tebow to Joe, merely pointing out that there is more than one way to be a good QB in the league)

[Ziner]

Tebow is what he is. No one knows what he will develop in to. Not really sure it is worth all this fuss. Just sit back and either hate or enjoy. I find it highly entertaining, much more so than the Browns. I can barely watch the Browns for more than a quarter, but Tebow and the Broncos have become can't miss TV for me for the ups and downs of Tebow... Von Miller going beast mode doesnt hurt the entertainment value either.

[scrambler]

Honestly, if people could just admit that to date he is a pretty shitty QB I wouldn't even notice the whole thing.

And you are correct he had his best game ever throwing the ball this week. It also happened to be against the worst defense back field the league will see for a single game this year and involved more run around, ten yard dump off, pray D Thomas runs...

But yeah, I agree lead. Tebow has officially taken the world over and is one of the damndest things I have ever seen.

I don't think I've said anything other than he's been a good quarterback this year so far. I said no one on the face of the earth knows how his career will end up. This could certainly be the peak of his career as 2007 was for Derek Anderson. I think he has the 10th best qb rating in the league this year....Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Roethlisberger, Schaub, Smith, Manning, Romo, Stafford. Those are the ones higher than him. He's done what he's been asked to do. I think whether you are right or wrong about Tebow is 50-50 right now. I live in reality is all. That being said, I would not be shocked at all if the Broncos go 0-4 their last 4 games. Thus far, he's been a good quarterback for that team and at 1-4 and trading their best wideout, Brandon Lloyd before his first start I don't think anyone on the planet thought the Broncos would be 7-5 and in first place right now.

[hiko]

I'm not sure why people bother bringing up the trading of Brandon Lloyd as some sort of impediment when Tebow completes about 3 passes a game to wideouts, but whatever.

[scrambler]

I'm not sure why people bother bringing up the trading of Brandon Lloyd as some sort of impediment when Tebow completes about 3 passes a game to wideouts, but whatever.

I guess because he was their best wide receiver on the roster is all. I state it as nothing more than a simple fact...which in the case of Tebow--trading Lloyd may have had as much importance as stating grass is green. And then we're just back to debating "Tebow is so bad he doesn't need wide receivers to even throw to cause he can't throw" or "Tebow is so good he wins with bad wide receivers"

It's all meaningless.

[scrambler]

Although to be fair in 3 starts last year with Tebow, Lloyd caught 14 passes for 263 yards and 2 touchdowns. never let facts get in the way of a good story however. Silly me for bringing up the trade of Lloyd I guess.

[hiko]

Although to be fair in 3 starts last year with Tebow, Lloyd caught 14 passes for 263 yards and 2 touchdowns. never let facts get in the way of a good story however. Silly me for bringing up the trade of Lloyd I guess.

How wrong I was. If the Broncos still had Lloyd, Tebow'd probably be slinging it around the field like Aaron Rodgers. Obviously a further evil attempt by the Denver front office to undermine the Chosen One.

[leadpipe]

Although to be fair in 3 starts last year with Tebow, Lloyd caught 14 passes for 263 yards and 2 touchdowns. never let facts get in the way of a good story however. Silly me for bringing up the trade of Lloyd I guess.

How wrong I was. If the Broncos still had Lloyd, Tebow'd probably be slinging it around the field like Aaron Rodgers. Obviously a further evil attempt by the Denver front office to undermine the Chosen One.

The Great One still has a hold on you Hiko. And to makes matters worse he has sent an instigator, to draw you in even further.

You now find yourself in a web of aura of which there is no escape.

[hiko]

Although to be fair in 3 starts last year with Tebow, Lloyd caught 14 passes for 263 yards and 2 touchdowns. never let facts get in the way of a good story however. Silly me for bringing up the trade of Lloyd I guess.

How wrong I was. If the Broncos still had Lloyd, Tebow'd probably be slinging it around the field like Aaron Rodgers. Obviously a further evil attempt by the Denver front office to undermine the Chosen One.

The Great One still has a hold on you Hiko. And to makes matters worse he has sent an instigator, to draw you in even further.

You now find yourself in a web of aura of which there is no escape.

Yes, I need to heed my own advice from earlier in the thread.