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Sizemore's knee and the future

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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby rigs » Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:22 pm

I can't help but reiterate that right now, we have the same crappy team (second worst in AL after May 15th), plus Lowe. There better be SEVERAL more moves to come. Look forward to matchup lefties going 7, 8, and 9 against our lineup of 7 lefties, and two switch hitters that hit better left handed. Have never seen anything like it at this level, and it is going to happen a 2nd year.
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:51 pm

Well, don't forget that we have a full year of Kipnis and a healthy Choo. Those are two huge additions.

They aren't done, though. They can't be. Not after what the Ubaldo trade announced about our window of contention.
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby TonyIPI » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:27 pm

rigs wrote:I can't help but reiterate that right now, we have the same crappy team (second worst in AL after May 15th), plus Lowe. There better be SEVERAL more moves to come. Look forward to matchup lefties going 7, 8, and 9 against our lineup of 7 lefties, and two switch hitters that hit better left handed. Have never seen anything like it at this level, and it is going to happen a 2nd year.


I hear you Rigs.

I do not like the Sizemore signing at all. It was all setup to just move on after they declined the option, but like some relationships you just can't stay away and just get back together even though no matter what in a year's time you guys are parting. I guess enjoy Sizemore for one more season as he is gone after 2012 no matter what happens. Just pray he has an incredible year to resurrect his value, because if he does the Indians will benefit next year.

There is a long way to go this offseason, so I need to see where things stand once pitchers and catchers report. Several people have told me they need to add a power bat at 1B. But I am having a hard time figuring out who the hell that ends up being considering who is available and how much money they have to spend. If this offseason ends up being them picking up a 5th starter, resigning Sizemore, and adding Derrek Lee/Carlos Pena consider me EXTREMELY underwhelmed.

The only thing I as well as many others are hopeful here is that Antonetti has a trick up his sleeve. Will be interesting to see what he does because he doesn't have much from the minors to pick up anyone of impact unless he is getting salary dumps like Lowe (Carlos Lee?). But even guys like that are minimal impact guys. His best play is to trade some of his big league bullpen arms for a bat.
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby swerb » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:10 am

All you gotta do is read Pluto's Sunday column from a couple weeks back, which is fed to him right from the Indians front office.

Said they have 3 mill left to spend. Maybe a little more for the right player/scenario.

That's it. It is what it is.

That means no DLee. No Pena. No Cuddyer. No "impact bat" is gonna come here for 3-5 mill per, and it's more likely that $ is split up on a couple Casey Blake types.

They had about 15 mill to spend this off-season. Lowe got 5. Grady got 5-9. They got 3-5 mill left. Antonetti's gotta figure out the best way to maximize that cash.
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:13 am

I just threw up in my mouth a bit.
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby swerb » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:20 am

Here's the link. "Here's what I am hearing" = "What Antonetti just told me".

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/ind ... he_43.html

8. The real question is "Are the Indians done spending?" It's hard to get a direct answer, but here is what I am hearing -- they may have an extra $3 million or so in the budget to spend. They also can create some more money with trades.

9. They know they need a right-handed hitter. They would love that hitter to be an outfielder, who can also play some first base. They doubt that player is available in free agency ... they don't have the $30 million over three years that they expect Michael Cuddyer to receive. So they are working on trades.
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby Kingpin74 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:08 pm

swerb wrote:All you gotta do is read Pluto's Sunday column from a couple weeks back, which is fed to him right from the Indians front office.

Said they have 3 mill left to spend. Maybe a little more for the right player/scenario.

That's it. It is what it is.

That means no DLee. No Pena. No Cuddyer. No "impact bat" is gonna come here for 3-5 mill per, and it's more likely that $ is split up on a couple Casey Blake types.

They had about 15 mill to spend this off-season. Lowe got 5. Grady got 5-9. They got 3-5 mill left. Antonetti's gotta figure out the best way to maximize that cash.


Gotta trade for someone like Smoak then. I don't care how little cash we have on hand, an supposed contender can't roll with Matt LaPorta at first. I'm in favor of trading Perez anyway (due to his salary increase and terrible residual numbers) but he would appear to make the most sense as our big chip to offer. When the Papelbons of the world are getting $12.5M on the open market, Perez at $4M should fetch someone decent.
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby skatingtripods » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:18 pm

3M left, eh? Makes the Grady base salary look even worse.

If the Twitter rumors are true that the Astros will eat all of Carlos Lee's salary, he looks like our best shot. Can play 1B, right handed stick.

All depends on the prospect cost.
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby pup » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:50 pm

Nothing better than passing on Carlos Lee when he could have made a difference because of the fear of the player he might become at the end of that contract then taking him on at the end of that contract.

But hey, the price is right.
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby paulcousineau » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:30 pm

Still think that a trade is how they add a bat (while clearing payroll in the process) and the destinations for Pujols, Prince, and Pena are going to shape the trade market. This team wasn't going to be a player on the FA market before re-signing Grady.

Oh, and the Marlins (who are spending like crazy) have re-set their sights on Albert:
Now that they've checked Reyes off their to-do list, the Miami Marlins have an even bigger name on their radar screen -- Albert Pujols.

Sources told ESPN.com on Sunday night that the Marlins plan to make an aggressive run at Pujols over the next two days.

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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby gotribe31 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:38 pm

swerb wrote:Here's the link. "Here's what I am hearing" = "What Antonetti just told me".

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/ind ... he_43.html

8. The real question is "Are the Indians done spending?" It's hard to get a direct answer, but here is what I am hearing -- they may have an extra $3 million or so in the budget to spend. They also can create some more money with trades.

9. They know they need a right-handed hitter. They would love that hitter to be an outfielder, who can also play some first base. They doubt that player is available in free agency ... they don't have the $30 million over three years that they expect Michael Cuddyer to receive. So they are working on trades.


Remember too that that $3 mil was before the new CBA raised the minimum salary by about 16%. Probably added a million to the payroll just from that.
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:16 pm

gotribe31 wrote:
swerb wrote:Here's the link. "Here's what I am hearing" = "What Antonetti just told me".

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/ind ... he_43.html

8. The real question is "Are the Indians done spending?" It's hard to get a direct answer, but here is what I am hearing -- they may have an extra $3 million or so in the budget to spend. They also can create some more money with trades.

9. They know they need a right-handed hitter. They would love that hitter to be an outfielder, who can also play some first base. They doubt that player is available in free agency ... they don't have the $30 million over three years that they expect Michael Cuddyer to receive. So they are working on trades.


Remember too that that $3 mil was before the new CBA raised the minimum salary by about 16%. Probably added a million to the payroll just from that.


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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:18 pm

pup wrote:Nothing better than passing on Carlos Lee when he could have made a difference because of the fear of the player he might become at the end of that contract then taking him on at the end of that contract.

But hey, the price is right.


I mentioned this as a possibility a month or so ago. I hate that this is now probably our BEST option.

We'd only be liable for him for one year and at a much reduced rate. That's the only reason I'd be willing to do it.

Still sucks, though.
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby Cleveland Matt » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:53 pm

Maybe if we all gave a dollar to Dolan he will finally spend some money to win
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:19 pm

Adverb Harry wrote:
pup wrote:Nothing better than passing on Carlos Lee when he could have made a difference because of the fear of the player he might become at the end of that contract then taking him on at the end of that contract.

But hey, the price is right.


I mentioned this as a possibility a month or so ago. I hate that this is now probably our BEST option.

We'd only be liable for him for one year and at a much reduced rate. That's the only reason I'd be willing to do it.

Still sucks, though.


http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Just read that Houston as of right now will only pay half of his 18.5 million salary....and they dont intend to have to eat any of Wandy Rodriguez's salary in a trade :lmfao:

So I guess Lee is out unless they decide to pay about 3/4 of his contract
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby TonyIPI » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:49 am

paulcousineau wrote:Still think that a trade is how they add a bat (while clearing payroll in the process) and the destinations for Pujols, Prince, and Pena are going to shape the trade market. This team wasn't going to be a player on the FA market before re-signing Grady.


Agree Paul. Unfortunately, the options available in FA are slim. There is interest in Willingham, but he wants too much money and too many years at the moment. If that price comes down their interest may increase, but with so many teams involved it is doubtful.

I really think the key may lie in what happens with this Pujols-MArlins thing. If Miami does sign him, it may make Gaby Sanchez available. While not an All Star, he would still be a big upgrade over LaPorta and a solid 5-6 hitter for the lineup. I still think they will need one more bat in the OF, but we will see. The Indians have the pitching depth at ML/AAA to make a deal for a guy like Sanchez and give the Marlins the pitching they may want.
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby bookelly » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:06 am

TonyIPI wrote:
paulcousineau wrote:Still think that a trade is how they add a bat (while clearing payroll in the process) and the destinations for Pujols, Prince, and Pena are going to shape the trade market. This team wasn't going to be a player on the FA market before re-signing Grady.


Agree Paul. Unfortunately, the options available in FA are slim. There is interest in Willingham, but he wants too much money and too many years at the moment. If that price comes down their interest may increase, but with so many teams involved it is doubtful.

I really think the key may lie in what happens with this Pujols-MArlins thing. If Miami does sign him, it may make Gaby Sanchez available. While not an All Star, he would still be a big upgrade over LaPorta and a solid 5-6 hitter for the lineup. I still think they will need one more bat in the OF, but we will see. The Indians have the pitching depth at ML/AAA to make a deal for a guy like Sanchez and give the Marlins the pitching they may want.


Fielder may land in Toronto making Lind available. He's got pop, though LH'ed. He's under control for 5 more years @ $5M (next 2 yrs) and $7-8M Club Options for the next 3. He can DH so they may keep him and move Encarnacion.
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:25 am

Just thinking outside the box here.


Say the Marlins do land Albert Pujols and Mark Buerhle and or CJ Wilson.


How bout a deal centering around Shin Soo Choo for Gaby and Anibal Sanchez


Or heck maybe they should be shopping Choo anyways to try to pull off a 2 for 1.


Then we would have to fill an OF void, but hey maybe Ryan Garko is available. :thumb up:
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby TonyIPI » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:27 am

Dnthateonthepronk wrote:Just thinking outside the box here.


Say the Marlins do land Albert Pujols and Mark Buerhle and or CJ Wilson.


How bout a deal centering around Shin Soo Choo for Gaby and Anibal Sanchez


Or heck maybe they should be shopping Choo anyways to try to pull off a 2 for 1.


Then we would have to fill an OF void, but hey maybe Ryan Garko is available. :thumb up:


You would be selling low on Choo. His trade value took a big hit last year, so the best option for the Indians is probably to keep him as he is probably more valuable in what he can do in a healthy 2012 than what he could bring back in a trade now.
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:30 pm

TonyIPI wrote:
You would be selling low on Choo. His trade value took a big hit last year, so the best option for the Indians is probably to keep him as he is probably more valuable in what he can do in a healthy 2012 than what he could bring back in a trade now.



I mean of course you don't just give him away. If a team wont give you top value then you keep him. But all it takes is one team to really love him.
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby pup » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:35 pm

Asdrubal, Choo and Fausto

for

Hanley, Gaby and Morrison

If they sign Pujols
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby bookelly » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:00 pm

pup wrote:Asdrubal, Choo and Fausto

for

Hanley, Gaby and Morrison

If they sign Pujols


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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby TonyIPI » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:11 pm

Have heard if the Pujols deal to Miami goes through that Gaby Sanchez's most likely destination could be Tampa as they have the starting pitching the Marlins would want.
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby Rusty » Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:11 am

Grady hires a new hitting coach, puts up career year numbers in 2012, plays hurt, grinds, raises his stock, etc... :cheers:

Remember this message, because I am right. :hide:
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby TonyIPI » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:25 pm

Rusty wrote:Grady hires a new hitting coach, puts up career year numbers in 2012, plays hurt, grinds, raises his stock, etc... :cheers:

Remember this message, because I am right. :hide:


And leaves after the 2012 season. No matter what this is his goodbye season with the Indians. Let's hope it is a great year for him as it would be a win-win for everyone.
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:53 pm

If Marlins sign Pujols we call Florida. Just an Idea.

Kipnis , Putnam, Raffy Perez, and McAllister for Hanley. Also could expand talks to includ,e Choo, Fausto, and Chris Perez.
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:49 pm

Dnthateonthepronk wrote:If Marlins sign Pujols we call Florida. Just an Idea.

Kipnis , Putnam, Raffy Perez, and McAllister for Hanley. Also could expand talks to includ,e Choo, Fausto, and Chris Perez.


The Marlins would have hung up after Putnam. He had a bad year last year, but they aren't going to give him away. They'd probably start the bidding at Santana and Kipnis and go from there. If we still had Pomeranz and White, we could be players in a deal like that, but unless we're giving up someone on the roster, we don't have the depth in minors to pull off a massive deal like that.

Pujols is probably going back to St. Louis. Not sure if the Marlins are going after Fielder, though.

Great player, horrible attitude. I'm not sure I want that baggage at $15M a season for the next 2012-14.

Personally, signing a soon to be 32 year old to a 10 year contract at probably $23M per is insane, even for a stud like Pujols. They'd be better off paying him $40M a year for 5. They're probably not going to enjoy years 7, 8, 9 or 10.
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:52 pm

I don't want Hanley. Why would he come here to play 3B? Do we want to alienate Asdrubal by making him move positions and then have zero shot at signing him to an extension?

Plus, as Wisc said in a nicer way, Hanley's an asshole.
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby pup » Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:25 pm

skatingtripods wrote:I don't want Hanley. Why would he come here to play 3B? Do we want to alienate Asdrubal by making him move positions and then have zero shot at signing him to an extension?

Plus, as Wisc said in a nicer way, Hanley's an asshole.


Which is why you include Asdrubal and keep Kipnis.
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:45 pm

skatingtripods wrote:I don't want Hanley. Why would he come here to play 3B? Do we want to alienate Asdrubal by making him move positions and then have zero shot at signing him to an extension?

Plus, as Wisc said in a nicer way, Hanley's an asshole.



He is an asshole but he is a right handed impact bat.


You would put Hanley at short and move AC back to 2nd. I don't think it would alienate AC at all.
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:49 pm

[quote="WiscTribeFan"]

The Marlins would have hung up after Putnam. /quote]


Then I would call back and finish the list of players :dingle:
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:14 pm

pup wrote:Which is why you include Asdrubal and keep Kipnis.


As much as I'm a huge Asdrubal fan, I'd be on board with this.

From a cost perspective, Asdrubal, if he were to get an extension, would make what? Maybe 3/30, 4/38 or something? That might even be a little high.

Hanley's at 3/46.5.

Hard to believe Asdrubal hangs 25 and 90 ever again. If this offer is on the table, Antonetti would listen.

I'd be really afraid of Hanley being a bitch about everything. The cold. Undesirable location. Far from his home country.
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:16 pm

Again, a deal for HR would, most likely, start with Santana. You guys on board with dealing him along with A-Cab?

We'd have to give up too much of our current ML talent to make it viable. Our minors are too thin with impact talent to pull this off, IMHO.

Since they planned on moving him to 3b, Chisenhall probably also gets involved.
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Re: Sizemore's knee and the future

Unread postby TonyIPI » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:35 am

Hate to say it, but the biggest reason the Indians would not acquire Hanley Ramirez is the money. The Indians do not like any 3 year deals, especially for a guy making $15M+ per. They are just too gun shy about long term deals over 2 years for any player now after what happened with other big money signings of late (Hafner, Westbrook, Carmona, Wood, etc). It is also why they are now going more year-to-year with guys in arbitration and no longer doling out long-term deals to some of their younger players. They will still do it with a few, but they have found it no longer is as cost efficient as it once was as you really get tied to some big money on the backend. Back in the day of Belle, Ramirez, etc it was only $1-3M in that final year....now it is $7-10M or more for a lot of the guys.
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