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The SEC and the BCS

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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby fundamentals » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:16 am

pup wrote:
fundamentals wrote:Let's say LSU wins against Georgia and then loses a close BCS title game to Alabama. Who is the champion then? :thud:


The team that won in the National Championship Game.

Just like if the Steelers beat the Ravens in the AFC Championship Game.


I was hoping someone would say Houston. :pigs:
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:29 am

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
jb wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:The BCS actually costs most schools money. They're required to buy tickets, they're required to stay at certain hotels.



Well that dos it.

Time to occupy Pat O'Briens with a hurricaine in each hand. And protest. Yeah, that's it. Protest the BCS.


A hurricane? is that some kind of poofter drink? If it doesn't have "beer" or "bourbon" on the label, I probably won't drink it.



It is poofer. I was just trying to be topical.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby fundamentals » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:40 am

pup wrote:Just like if the Steelers beat the Ravens in the AFC Championship Game.


I know nothing, especially about BCS numbers, but couldn't LSU make an argument if they were to lose to Bama in a close game that they should be co-champs rather no champs? The politicking has been fun. Anyone see Saban's duds yesterday?
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby pup » Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:00 pm

fundamentals wrote:
pup wrote:Just like if the Steelers beat the Ravens in the AFC Championship Game.


I know nothing, especially about BCS numbers, but couldn't LSU make an argument if they were to lose to Bama in a close game that they should be co-champs rather no champs? The politicking has been fun. Anyone see Saban's duds yesterday?


No they could not. Because they lost the game the decides the National Champion.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby hiko » Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:50 pm

Bayou Tribe wrote:
hiko wrote:
swerb wrote:I don't know ... to me, it's never been more clear who the best two teams are. And the two best teams should play for the title. Or the title isn't a real title.


It's not a real title anyway, and won't be as long as the BCS hoax is in place.



Some years, I agree, but if LSU wins the next two games they play I'd love to hear your argument as to why they aren't the real national champs.

And I'm turning down the homerism here, I'm even aknowledging the split in 03 and the absolute cluster-fuck in 07.


There probably isn't one - this year. Far too often it's a popularity contest, and the illegitamacy of the game on a regular basis doesn't justify it just because an undefeated LSU team won it this season.

The simple solution is to go to 4 16-18 team superconferences, 2 divisions each. You win your division, you go to the conference championship. You win that, you go to one of the 2 Playoff bowl games. You win that, you go to the Plus One game, which is a real National Championship, not a fake one. And you only have to add one game to make this happen.

Regular season still matters since you need to win your division. Alabama could attest to that since in this scenario they don't even go to a Playoff Bowl.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby mattvan1 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:11 pm

fundamentals wrote:
pup wrote:Just like if the Steelers beat the Ravens in the AFC Championship Game.


I know nothing, especially about BCS numbers, but couldn't LSU make an argument if they were to lose to Bama in a close game that they should be co-champs rather no champs? The politicking has been fun. Anyone see Saban's duds yesterday?


'Bama is comming up through the Loser's Bracket, so they would need to beat LSU twice.

BTW, and not to be really podantic, but this is not the "National Championship". There is no such thing. This is the "BCS Championship", which has almost as much value as winning the "TCF Championship"
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Triple-S » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:21 pm

Kinda had something like in mind hiko:

ACC

North South
Pitt West Virginia
PSU Virginia Tech
Cincy Virginia
Syracuse Maryland
UConn UNC
Boston College Duke
Rutgers NC State
Miami (Fl.) Wake Forrest

SEC

East West
Clemson Alabama
South Carolina Auburn
Florida Ole Miss
Florida St. Miss St.
Georgia Tech Kentucky
UGA Louisville
South Florida Tennessee
Central Florida Vanderbilt

BIG

East West
Ohio St. Wisconsin
Michigan Minnesota
Michigan St. Iowa
Notre Dame Iowa St.
Indiana Nebraska
Purdue Kansas
Illinois Kansas St.
Northwestern Missouri

SWC

South North
LSU Oklahoma
Arkansas Oklahoma St.
Tulane Tulsa
Louisana Tech UTEP
Houston SMU
Rice TCU
Texas Texas Tech
Texas A&M Baylor

PAC 16

Mountain Pacific
Colorado UCLA
Air Force USC
Boise St. Cal
Utah Stanford
BYU Oregon
Hawai'i Oregon St.
Arizona Washington
Arizona St. Washington St.

CUSA, WAC, MAC, Mountain West and Sun Belt left overs all form their own conferences.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:45 pm

Swerbs post at the front says it all.

Anyone who watches football, and isn't a God Damned moron, could tell you who the two best teams in the country are.

You match them up in the championship game, and that's that.

Jesus H. Christ, Alabama doesn't deserve another shot because they lost to the best team in the country, so lets give a team that couldn't beat the Cylones a shot. And no, I have no desire to see Case Keenum mauled cause he isn't playing Wyoming.

And every year with the "down with the BCS" bullshit. Good God, does anyone here remember what the hell went on before the BCS? You wanna go back to the President of the United States picking the Champion? And the playoff situation is like many other things in this country nowadays - people in high places are filling their pockets with the way it is now. Dream up all the scenarios you want, until you come up with one that fills those exact same pockets you are wasting your time.

This year, make no mistake about it, the two best teams in the country will play. We may not like the rematch, we may not like the styles, and most certainly there's a ton of people with bugs up their asses cause of which conference they come from, but God Damn, a championship game with the best two teams....there's a hell of a lot going on worse than that.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Triple-S » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:22 pm

leadpipe wrote:Anyone who watches football, and isn't a God Damned moron, could tell you who the two best teams in the country are.


Agreed.

leadpipe wrote:Jesus H. Christ, Alabama doesn't deserve another shot because they lost to the best team in the country, so lets give a team that couldn't beat the Cylones a shot. And no, I have no desire to see Case Keenum mauled cause he isn't playing Wyoming.


Disagree. 'Bama didn't take care of business at home, and don't deserve it. They didn't win their conference, didn't beat LSU the first go around. They should not be in the title game. No matter how ok state maybe, if they win their conference, they should be in this game. That should be one of the requirements for being in this game if you're going to have this in this current format. Couldn't get it done in conference? tough. '02 Nebraska shouldn't have been in it, nor should '03 Oklahoma. If the same logic was used on '06 scUM on a rematch against the Bucks, then again, exceptions should not be made.

leadpipe wrote:And every year with the "down with the BCS" bullshit. Good God, does anyone here remember what the hell went on before the BCS? You wanna go back to the President of the United States picking the Champion? And the playoff situation is like many other things in this country nowadays - people in high places are filling their pockets with the way it is now. Dream up all the scenarios you want, until you come up with one that fills those exact same pockets you are wasting your time.


Yup. Did you see the matchups herm posted?

Rose: Oregon vs. Wisconsin

Orange: Oklahoma State vs. Alabama

Cotton: Houston vs. Michigan State

Fiesta: Arkansas vs. Virginia Tech

Sugar: LSU vs. Clemson


All on New Years day? Football nirvana! Again, entertainment.At the very least this system allows some kind of arument to be made on the field. 'Bama has to beat Ok. State and pray LSU goes down. If they wanted a guaranteed shot at number 1 they would have had to win that game back in October, as it stands they're stuck praying Clemson can pull off the upset of the century. Ok State? They're still in it. And Clemson would get a shot at being able to increase their stock as a program with a possible upset of LSU. Cougs? Let's see how they do against B1G.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:43 am

Triple-S wrote:
leadpipe wrote:Anyone who watches football, and isn't a God Damned moron, could tell you who the two best teams in the country are.


Agreed.

leadpipe wrote:Jesus H. Christ, Alabama doesn't deserve another shot because they lost to the best team in the country, so lets give a team that couldn't beat the Cylones a shot. And no, I have no desire to see Case Keenum mauled cause he isn't playing Wyoming.


Disagree. 'Bama didn't take care of business at home, and don't deserve it. They didn't win their conference, didn't beat LSU the first go around. They should not be in the title game. No matter how ok state maybe, if they win their conference, they should be in this game. That should be one of the requirements for being in this game if you're going to have this in this current format. Couldn't get it done in conference? tough. '02 Nebraska shouldn't have been in it, nor should '03 Oklahoma. If the same logic was used on '06 scUM on a rematch against the Bucks, then again, exceptions should not be made.

leadpipe wrote:And every year with the "down with the BCS" bullshit. Good God, does anyone here remember what the hell went on before the BCS? You wanna go back to the President of the United States picking the Champion? And the playoff situation is like many other things in this country nowadays - people in high places are filling their pockets with the way it is now. Dream up all the scenarios you want, until you come up with one that fills those exact same pockets you are wasting your time.


Yup. Did you see the matchups herm posted?

Rose: Oregon vs. Wisconsin

Orange: Oklahoma State vs. Alabama

Cotton: Houston vs. Michigan State

Fiesta: Arkansas vs. Virginia Tech

Sugar: LSU vs. Clemson


All on New Years day? Football nirvana! Again, entertainment.At the very least this system allows some kind of arument to be made on the field. 'Bama has to beat Ok. State and pray LSU goes down. If they wanted a guaranteed shot at number 1 they would have had to win that game back in October, as it stands they're stuck praying Clemson can pull off the upset of the century. Ok State? They're still in it. And Clemson would get a shot at being able to increase their stock as a program with a possible upset of LSU. Cougs? Let's see how they do against B1G.


Enough with the horseshit about winning the conference.

You want the winner of a shiity conference or do you want the two best teams?

Again, there is one team better then Alabama. And all the other teams you want to move ahead of them HAD MUCH EASIER PATHS TO GET THERE, and they shit themselves. But you wanna penalize Alabama for losing to the best team in the country, and give the others a mulligan for losing to teams they were favored by double digits over.

Don't understand why the scrappin' for ways to reinvent the wheel here. IT IS CRYSTAL CLEAR WHO THE TWO BEST TEAMS ARE.

It makes perfect sense they play.

And they will.

And it's as it should be.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:09 am

LSU beat Alabama on their own field, that would be rendered irrelevant if Alabama beats LSU on a neutral field under the hilarious guise of "it's the National Title game, dood!". That's the BCS in a nutshell..... "the regular season is the playoffs until it's not".

Awesome. This is the best case to dump this laughable system.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:51 am

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:LSU beat Alabama on their own field, that would be rendered irrelevant if Alabama beats LSU on a neutral field under the hilarious guise of "it's the National Title game, dood!". That's the BCS in a nutshell..... "the regular season is the playoffs until it's not".

Awesome. This is the best case to dump this laughable system.


Yep. Either the regular season is the playoffs, or its not.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Sea Foam Green » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:21 am

leadpipe wrote: And all the other teams you want to move ahead of them HAD MUCH EASIER PATHS TO GET THERE, and they shit themselves.


Gonna have to disagree there. Alabama's path to get there was beat LSU. That was it. Their best win is Arkansas. There 2nd best win is Penn State. Penn State! I know they've got a decent record, but is anyone here honestly that impressed with a win over Moxie U? They do not have a 3rd good win.

You want to call them the best, that's fine, I don't see it but we can agree to disagree. You want to call them the most deserving, and there are facts and figures to dispute that.

Interesting link regarding who is the most deserving: http://eye-on-collegefootball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/24156338/33566427
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:51 am

Sea Foam Green wrote:
leadpipe wrote: And all the other teams you want to move ahead of them HAD MUCH EASIER PATHS TO GET THERE, and they shit themselves.


Gonna have to disagree there. Alabama's path to get there was beat LSU. That was it. Their best win is Arkansas. There 2nd best win is Penn State. Penn State! I know they've got a decent record, but is anyone here honestly that impressed with a win over Moxie U? They do not have a 3rd good win.

You want to call them the best, that's fine, I don't see it but we can agree to disagree. You want to call them the most deserving, and there are facts and figures to dispute that.

Interesting link regarding who is the most deserving: http://eye-on-collegefootball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/24156338/33566427



I would assume you could concoct a formula that could make every team in the top ten worthy of number two.

Or you could watch the games and understand football, and make a logical choice.

The BCS has them as the top two by far. The Vegas poll (which I've said 1,000 times is the one to pay attention to, cause nobody is tracking every game like these guys - and their livelyhood deopends on it) has them top two by far, and again, everyone watching the game with a pulse has them top two.

And we can talk signature wins for Alabama, and how they might not be stellar, but let's not ignore total weeks off for those other teams, weeks in which they could rest playrs, and instill a game plan for three weeks down the road when they have to play someone they actually have to stay awake for. Or how those weeks off help the other nonsense, like margin of victory. Not only would OK State lose games in the SEC, for example, but how do you think their "winning margin" would be effected in a conference where teams actually put 10 minutes worth of work on the defensive side of the ball.

Alabama favored over every team in the country save one on a neutral field.

Fact.

With that line or "opinion" being set by those that know far more about each and every college team then we do.

So if you wanna tell all those guys who deserves to be ranked ahead of them, have at it.

Or, better yet, you can put down all the calculators and watch the games.

Nothing left to say here. At the beginning of the year if I told you the best two teams would play, we'd all agree it's fair. Now, every legitimate ranking has them one and two, by a large margin, and it's an apeshit fest.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Sea Foam Green » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:18 am

Kind of like that week off Alabama had right before the LSU game?

All I'm saying is that I think there can be a difference between the best teams and the most deserving teams. Alabama may be one of the best teams, hell I agree with you 100% on the vegas poll, so they are one of the two best teams. Fine. Still I don't think that makes them more deserving than other teams with more quality wins.

And this is a concept we apply all the time in college football. Whenever TCU or Boise State is undefeated, the argument isn't that they aren't the best team, it's that they don't deserve it because they play a cupcake schedule. I don't see why we can't apply that same type of logic to Alabama. The fact is, if this were TCU and not Alabama, everyone would be fine with saying 'they already had their shot and they lost' but since it's Alabama, and we thought they were the best team before the season started, it's now a big deal.

BCS championship is never the two best teams, it's the two most deserving. I just think all evaluations should be made on that basis. And IMO, if Oklahoma State beats OU, that leaves out Alabama, 2nd best team or not.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:36 am

Sea Foam Green wrote:Kind of like that week off Alabama had right before the LSU game?

All I'm saying is that I think there can be a difference between the best teams and the most deserving teams. Alabama may be one of the best teams, hell I agree with you 100% on the vegas poll, so they are one of the two best teams. Fine. Still I don't think that makes them more deserving than other teams with more quality wins.

And this is a concept we apply all the time in college football. Whenever TCU or Boise State is undefeated, the argument isn't that they aren't the best team, it's that they don't deserve it because they play a cupcake schedule. I don't see why we can't apply that same type of logic to Alabama. The fact is, if this were TCU and not Alabama, everyone would be fine with saying 'they already had their shot and they lost' but since it's Alabama, and we thought they were the best team before the season started, it's now a big deal.

BCS championship is never the two best teams, it's the two most deserving. I just think all evaluations should be made on that basis. And IMO, if Oklahoma State beats OU, that leaves out Alabama, 2nd best team or not.


This is one of those times when I like to quote William Muny, killer of women and children.

"deserve's got nothing to do with it."

The system is set up to put the 2 best teams on the field against each other. It works more often than not, and more often than people like to admit. what is this "deserve" crap. "Deserve" is just some guy's opinion. You're an tOSU fan. What if the Buckeyes went through their schedule with one loss. That loss happened to be to the only undefeated team in the country. Everyone agreed that you were one of the best 2 teams in the country. But they all decided that you don't get to play in the game that is designed to pit the 2 best teams against each other because they thought a team that everyone thinks is worse than you deserves it more? I'd be pissed.

The system ain't perfect, but it worked perfectly this year.

I just don't understand the idea that the 2 best teams shouldn't be allowed to play each other for the NC because they had the misfortune of having tonplay each other earlier.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby jb » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:56 am

leadpipe wrote:Swerbs post at the front says it all.

Anyone who watches football, and isn't a God Damned moron, could tell you who the two best teams in the country are.

You match them up in the championship game, and that's that.

Jesus H. Christ, Alabama doesn't deserve another shot because they lost to the best team in the country, so lets give a team that couldn't beat the Cylones a shot. And no, I have no desire to see Case Keenum mauled cause he isn't playing Wyoming.

And every year with the "down with the BCS" bullshit. Good God, does anyone here remember what the hell went on before the BCS? You wanna go back to the President of the United States picking the Champion? And the playoff situation is like many other things in this country nowadays - people in high places are filling their pockets with the way it is now. Dream up all the scenarios you want, until you come up with one that fills those exact same pockets you are wasting your time.

This year, make no mistake about it, the two best teams in the country will play. We may not like the rematch, we may not like the styles, and most certainly there's a ton of people with bugs up their asses cause of which conference they come from, but God Damn, a championship game with the best two teams....there's a hell of a lot going on worse than that.



Which again, is why Nebraska beat Miami in 83. And why Miami pounded Penn State in 86. It's why UNLV went undefeated wire to wire and won the crown inn 91 in hoops. It's also why the Patriots blew out the Giants in the SB a couple years ago.

F it.

Why even play ANY games? Just let the recruiting-niks tell you who the BCS winner is in August.

I actually liked it better when there was a system in pllace that crowned BYU in 1984.

These are all allegedly BCS teams. They can't dictate how goo stheir schedule is on any given year given advanced planning. All they can do is play the games.

We know for a fact that LSU is better than Alabama as the game is defined. Been there, done that.

We don't know for a fact they are better than the Cowboy OSU and that style of ball.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby fundamentals » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:02 am

I still disagree with the fact that if Bama plays LSU and wins, then Bama is the BCS champ. I guess I am stupid for that thought, but so be it. LSU beat Bama on its home field, don't care about Bama's kicker missing nineteen field goals and the defense domination by Saban's squad. They got beat on their home field. Now, should there be a rematch, can't exactly say that the site is "neutral" given the fact there stands to be the whole state of Louisiana there that night in the Superdome. Nonetheless, Bama wins and they are the BCS champs? Both they and LSU have one loss, so blow up LSU's body of work for the season and pin it on that game. How about a third game at Cleveland Browns Stadium, winner take all? :hide:
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:18 am

fundamentals wrote:I still disagree with the fact that if Bama plays LSU and wins, then Bama is the BCS champ. I guess I am stupid for that thought, but so be it. LSU beat Bama on its home field, don't care about Bama's kicker missing nineteen field goals and the defense domination by Saban's squad. They got beat on their home field. Now, should there be a rematch, can't exactly say that the site is "neutral" given the fact there stands to be the whole state of Louisiana there that night in the Superdome. Nonetheless, Bama wins and they are the BCS champs? Both they and LSU have one loss, so blow up LSU's body of work for the season and pin it on that game. How about a third game at Cleveland Browns Stadium, winner take all? :hide:


So what are you saying? If OSU played LSU and beat them, then Iowa State would be the national champs?
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Sea Foam Green » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:21 am

motherscratcher wrote:This is one of those times when I like to quote William Muny, killer of women and children.

"deserve's got nothing to do with it."


I mean best in the sense that if LSU lost a game this season, they would still be the best team in college football. Even with one loss on there docket, I'm picking that team to beat anybody. Most talent, best execution. Some years that loss would knock them out of the title hunt. Doesn't mean they aren't still the best team.

If we simply picked best teams each year, we'd just use our eyes [like lead said] and pick the 2 teams with the greatest chance to win any given Saturday, regardless of what their record is....but that's not how the system works, we look at consistency and difficulty too. [Much like figure skating judges]

In 2007 OSU wasn't the best team in the country, not even close imo, but at the end of the season, after all the games had been played, they had the best resume, so they got their ticket punched for the BCS. That's the way this works. Most times the best/most deserving teams will co-incide. Not all the time.

And when it comes to focusing on resumes, I choose to focus on the wins rather than the loses. That's all.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:22 am

JB - that all makes sense. I'm not so black and white on this as much as I'm in a grey area. Truthfully, id rather watch Ok St play than Bama. But I can't help but think that this is the closest we will get to the 2 best teams. Like it or not.

Who do you THINK are the 2 best teams?
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby fundamentals » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:25 am

motherscratcher wrote:
fundamentals wrote:I still disagree with the fact that if Bama plays LSU and wins, then Bama is the BCS champ. I guess I am stupid for that thought, but so be it. LSU beat Bama on its home field, don't care about Bama's kicker missing nineteen field goals and the defense domination by Saban's squad. They got beat on their home field. Now, should there be a rematch, can't exactly say that the site is "neutral" given the fact there stands to be the whole state of Louisiana there that night in the Superdome. Nonetheless, Bama wins and they are the BCS champs? Both they and LSU have one loss, so blow up LSU's body of work for the season and pin it on that game. How about a third game at Cleveland Browns Stadium, winner take all? :hide:


So what are you saying? If OSU played LSU and beat them, then Iowa State would be the national champs?


I want a playoff.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:29 am

The more I think about it the more a rematch of Bama & LSU is trash, regardless of what we/some people see on the field every Saturday. Bama lost to LSU already, move on. Besides every freakin game for the SEC, especially this time of year, is a home field advantage.

I mean fuck if Bama and LSU have clearly been the best two teams all season long then institute a flex schedule in the NCAA and just have them play each other the final 8 weeks of the season. Have them tour the nation if we want "neutral" sites.


Randomize all big time OOC schedules, institute playoff, or bust.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:36 am

I get it now, the regular season is not a playoff. You have assistant to the assistant coaches and Hoynsie/Pluto mediots as judges, the major conferences get bonus points for scoring, the SEC gets bonus points on top of that, and the BCS Committee is there at the end to sing 'Here she comes, Miss National Champion'. I get it all now.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby jb » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:56 am

motherscratcher wrote:JB - that all makes sense. I'm not so black and white on this as much as I'm in a grey area. Truthfully, id rather watch Ok St play than Bama. But I can't help but think that this is the closest we will get to the 2 best teams. Like it or not.

Who do you THINK are the 2 best teams?



I think Bama and LSU.

But in reality IDK.

I thought Maimi was better that tOSU in 2002 as well. I think I'm just dug in that I think playing gmes actually matters.

First snow flurries of the season going on, BTW.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:17 pm

jb wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:JB - that all makes sense. I'm not so black and white on this as much as I'm in a grey area. Truthfully, id rather watch Ok St play than Bama. But I can't help but think that this is the closest we will get to the 2 best teams. Like it or not.

Who do you THINK are the 2 best teams?



I think Bama and LSU.

But in reality IDK.

I thought Maimi was better that tOSU in 2002 as well. I think I'm just dug in that I think playing gmes actually matters.

First snow flurries of the season going on, BTW.


In reality nobody knows. And Miami probably was better. Just like tOSU was probably better than Mich St in '98 or whenever, and (huge homer alert coming) tOSU was better than Florida in '06.*

Playing the games does matter. But why does Bamas game against LSU matter more than OK STs game against ISU? They are both losses. In college football, when the schedule doesn't permit all of the match ups we'd like to see, I have a hard time yelling "no do-overs". The only "fair" way to really do it is have everybody play everybody, which is ridiculous obviously. I guess we have to answer, is the NC game about getting as close to a true champ as we think we can get? Or is it about getting us a matchup we haven't seen yet?

I no longer have any idea what the fuck I'm trying to say. I give up. Incoherent.

*that's right, the Buckeyes were better than the Gators that year and no one will ever convince me otherwise. That team we saw in the NC game was not the same team I'd been watching all season.

**snow flurries are great. My kid woke me up today excited as hell looking out the window watching the snow fall.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:28 pm

*
**

* agreed, will take that POV to my grave.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby jb » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:28 pm

motherscratcher wrote: But why does Bamas game against LSU matter more than OK STs game against ISU?



Becasue LSU is the opponant (assumption) .

To me it is matter of been there, done that, decided.

See also, scUM not replaying tOSU in 06.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby fundamentals » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:29 pm

motherscratcher wrote:I give up. Incoherent.


I echo that same sentiment. :dead:
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Triple-S » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:39 pm

I hate scUM, but isn't this the argument that Danielson said against a rematch against the Bucks/scUM in 06?

“It wouldn't have been fair for Michigan to have to play them again..

Winning it on the field is all that matters.

There was only one team in college football that had the opportunity to play their way into that game against Ohio. Michigan had a shot.”


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If that's the case, why are we making this exception for 'Bama? Cannot have it both ways.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby hiko » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:40 pm

leadpipe wrote:And every year with the "down with the BCS" bullshit. Good God, does anyone here remember what the hell went on before the BCS? You wanna go back to the President of the United States picking the Champion?


Ah, it's the ol' "At least Derek Anderson is better than Spurgeon Wynn" argument.

Why look for a good system when at least this system isn't as bad as the previous system?

leadpipe wrote:And the playoff situation is like many other things in this country nowadays - people in high places are filling their pockets with the way it is now. Dream up all the scenarios you want, until you come up with one that fills those exact same pockets you are wasting your time.


Can you - or anyone - give me one damn reason that the people making money hand-over-fist wouldn't make just as much, if not more, in a playoff system? It's not like they have to do away with the meaningless Bowls - you can still have Purdue vs. UNLV in the Taco Bell Chalupa Bowl.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby hiko » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:43 pm

Triple-S wrote:I hate scUM, but isn't this the argument that Danielson said against a rematch against the Bucks/scUM in 06?

“It wouldn't have been fair for Michigan to have to play them again..

Winning it on the field is all that matters.

There was only one team in college football that had the opportunity to play their way into that game against Ohio. Michigan had a shot.”


http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showth ... 268e9e8e0e

If that's the case, why are we making this exception for 'Bama? Cannot have it both ways.


If you're Danielson you can, since he works for CBS and is a hopeless shill for the SEC. I'm sure he's backtracking so fast that the NFL combine scouts are shooting him up their boards.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby pup » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:43 pm

Hiko - If they would make more $. And the fans would be happier. Why don't they do it?

Just like everything else in the world, if the payoff is higher, it will get done. Whatever "research" they have done has shown someone is losing money in the deal. And that is why it won't happen.

I can't believe it myself, but there is a reason.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby hiko » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:08 pm

pup wrote:Hiko - If they would make more $. And the fans would be happier. Why don't they do it?

Just like everything else in the world, if the payoff is higher, it will get done. Whatever "research" they have done has shown someone is losing money in the deal. And that is why it won't happen.

I can't believe it myself, but there is a reason.


My only answer is "Like most intellectuals, they are colossally stupid". Because no other logical answer has been presented to me.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:21 pm

leadpipe wrote:Enough with the horseshit about winning the conference.

You want the winner of a shiity conference or do you want the two best teams?

Again, there is one team better then Alabama. And all the other teams you want to move ahead of them HAD MUCH EASIER PATHS TO GET THERE, and they shit themselves. But you wanna penalize Alabama for losing to the best team in the country, and give the others a mulligan for losing to teams they were favored by double digits over.

Don't understand why the scrappin' for ways to reinvent the wheel here. IT IS CRYSTAL CLEAR WHO THE TWO BEST TEAMS ARE.

It makes perfect sense they play.

And they will.

And it's as it should be.


This x1,000,000.

Had Oklahoma State beaten Iowa State and Oklahoma, we probably aren't having this discussion. But they didn't even beat Iowa State. So fuck 'em. That's why they aren't in the title game.

Maybe we should put Houston in there because they're 13-0. Playing in Conference USA. Houston plays one ranked team. And it's debatable if Southern Miss should even be ranked.

Let's let Oregon in who lost to a USC team at home who had nothing to play for because they can't go to a bowl.

The Pac 12 sucks, so Stanford doesn't deserve to go. They lost their one real game by 23. At home. Where they gave up 53.

I got it. Virginia Tech. Who managed 3 points at home against Clemson, who then got clubbed late in the year by North Carolina State and lost by 2 TD to a mediocre Georgia Tech team.


Like Lead, for better or worse, the two best teams in the country are playing to be the national champion. Just the way it should be.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:32 pm

How about this scenario:

Alabama's season remains unchanged. They are 11-1 and lost by 3 points to LSU.

LSU however lost 2 games. Say they lost to Florida and Arkansas. They are 10-2 and out of the NC picture.

Alabama would probably be #1 right now.

Are we supposed to say that Alabama would deserve to go to the NCG more if the only opponent that they did lose to was a little bit worse?

Makes no sense to keep them out.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:04 pm

Then scUM should have gotten a rematch in '06, since they lost to the #1 team on the road by 3. But ohh how people squawked about "they didn't win their conference!!!!".

The whole system is a farce.

I want Houston to go. I want anarchy.

But I know "they'll get stomped waaaaaaahhh!". Because we all know mid majors have never ever beaten one of the AQ schools in BCS bowl circuit.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby bac5665 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:12 pm

The problem this year is that LSU is already the National Champs. They won that title the second they beat Alabama. It's over, go home, nothing to see.

But God damn it, there's this exhibition game LSU has to play as some formality and they have to play someone. It cannot be Alabama because they already lost. We KNOW that LSU is better than Alabama AND we know that a rematch makes for a pretty boring exhibition game, so what's the point?

If Alabama plays against LSU, the BCS has failed catastrophically. Why play the games if you can just get a second chance if the media can just wish you back into the championship picture?

Let me put it this way. The purpose of the National Championship Game is NOT to play #1 against #2. It is to find out who #1 is. Usually, the best way to figure that out is to have #1 and #2 play. But this year, we've already done that. We already have that information. And #1 beat #2 AT #2'S HOME FIELD. So, in this weird year, it makes more sense to play #1 against #3, just to check, to make sure that #1 is really #1.

That or cancel the thing and hand LSU the trophy now. Which I'm actually all for because everyone here who's saying that OSU doesn't deserve a shot either is right to. There is no deserving sacrificial lamb for LSU. None. I really think that if LSU plays and loses to any team in the country in the NC game, that LSU is still the #1 team in the country. They proved that with their schedule. But if they have to play someone, make it #3, because LSU has earned the right to not have to play Alabama again.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:29 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Then scUM should have gotten a rematch in '06, since they lost to the #1 team on the road by 3. But ohh how people squawked about "they didn't win their conference!!!!".

The whole system is a farce.

I want Houston to go. I want anarchy.

But I know "they'll get stomped waaaaaaahhh!". Because we all know mid majors have never ever beaten one of the AQ schools in BCS bowl circuit.


You're right. scUM should have gone in '06. I'd be lying if I said that I thought that at the time. I honestly can't remember if I did or not.

You're also right that the system is a farce.

I wouldn't mind Houston going, although I think that 'Bama should go before them. Ultimately, someone has to go. I don't really give much of a shit one way or another because any team that get's there will be a good team with the potential to give us a good game to watch.

But, if I have to decide who has made the best case to go and who I think is the best team available to go...I think that team is Alabama. Just my opinion.

But, if Ok St, Standford, Houston, Oregon or Virginia Tech (well, maybe not Virginia Tech) go instead. Fine. Turn on the TV and get me a beer. May the best team win.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:33 pm

bac5665 wrote:The problem this year is that LSU is already the National Champs. They won that title the second they beat Alabama. It's over, go home, nothing to see.

But God damn it, there's this exhibition game LSU has to play as some formality and they have to play someone. It cannot be Alabama because they already lost. We KNOW that LSU is better than Alabama AND we know that a rematch makes for a pretty boring exhibition game, so what's the point?

If Alabama plays against LSU, the BCS has failed catastrophically. Why play the games if you can just get a second chance if the media can just wish you back into the championship picture?

Let me put it this way. The purpose of the National Championship Game is NOT to play #1 against #2. It is to find out who #1 is. Usually, the best way to figure that out is to have #1 and #2 play. But this year, we've already done that. We already have that information. And #1 beat #2 AT #2'S HOME FIELD. So, in this weird year, it makes more sense to play #1 against #3, just to check, to make sure that #1 is really #1.

That or cancel the thing and hand LSU the trophy now. Which I'm actually all for because everyone here who's saying that OSU doesn't deserve a shot either is right to. There is no deserving sacrificial lamb for LSU. None. I really think that if LSU plays and loses to any team in the country in the NC game, that LSU is still the #1 team in the country. They proved that with their schedule. But if they have to play someone, make it #3, because LSU has earned the right to not have to play Alabama again.


So, we know that LSU is better than Alabama because they beat them. But if someone else beats LSU, LSU is still better than who they lost to?
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby bac5665 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:37 pm

Fair enough, I went to far when I said I'd still call LSU NCs if they lost to Georgia or something.

But my point is this; it's not fair to LSU to have them play Alabama again. They beat them and therefore have earned the right to not have to play them again. Rematches should never happen in College Football. Not unless we have a real playoff.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:38 pm

Houston did what they're supposed to, they won all their games, Bama did not. So fuck them. Enjoy the Sugar Bowl.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Sea Foam Green » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:40 pm

skatingtripods wrote:Had Alabama beaten LSU and Georgia, we probably aren't having this discussion. But they didn't beat LSU. So fuck 'em. That's why they aren't in the title game.


Goes both ways. That's pretty much the point.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Sea Foam Green » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:48 pm

The way I see it, There are 2 teams you can still make a case for and it comes down to point of view for which one you choose. You can look at which team has beaten more quality opponents, or you can look at each team's lone loss and decide which is more 'justifiable'.

The latter option makes no sense to me. To me, a loss is a loss, I don't care if you played bad or just flat out got beat by a better team. A loss = a loss. I"m not going to equivocate. That considered, right now I think the two teams are about equal. OSU beats OU and I think it's pretty clear who's played and beaten more quality opponents. That would get them my vote.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:03 pm

Sea Foam Green wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:Had Alabama beaten LSU and Georgia, we probably aren't having this discussion. But they didn't beat LSU. So fuck 'em. That's why they aren't in the title game.


Goes both ways. That's pretty much the point.


Sure it goes both ways here - if you wanna substitute Iowa State for Georgia. and, if you are going to do that, then I could see why you've got a problem with it. Throw Houston in there by that logic.

And on the OSU/Michigan of a few years back, Michigan wasn't so far ahead of those behind them that a loss would not effect their position.

LSU and Alabama are so far superior to the competiton this year (not only my opinion, but by any poll) that the loss didn't hurt Bama - especially when the other teams dropped the ball. And this is a really big point here. You could make a stronger case for no rematch if you had a team even close to these two that you were shutting out. Again, the teams that could have overtook Alabama not only played cupcakes for the most part - more importantly the LOST TO ONE. Look at the loss Alabama had, and look at the contenders losses. I mean, not comparable. Bama lost BY 3 to the team that everyone here thinks should be the national champions even should they lose the rematch (an argument worth entertaining) meanwhile squads you want in there are losing to a bunch of humps and/or to one of the one or two halway decent teams on their schedule.

The two best teams DESERVE to play in that game.

And make no mistake about it, I dislike the bowl system and the BCS as much as anyone. Playoffs are at every other level.

BUT UNDER THIS SYSTEM THE TWO BEST TEAMS PLAYING IS AS IT SHOULD BE.

And please stop with the "rewarding" Oklahoma State. Good Christ. As much as I don't want to see another 9-6 game, it's more appropriate then seeing a team gifted the spot blown out.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:10 pm

I'm going with option B. The other actual undefeated team.

Put Houston in there and let the gnashing of teeth in Tuscaloosa be sweet sweet music to my ears.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:20 pm

Sea Foam Green wrote:Goes both ways. That's pretty much the point.


This isn't even close to the point.

In what universe is Iowa State half the team LSU is?

At least Alabama lost to the best team in the country.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:49 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
Sea Foam Green wrote:Goes both ways. That's pretty much the point.


This isn't even close to the point.

In what universe is Iowa State half the team LSU is?

At least Alabama lost to the best team in the country.


Right, so we already KNOW they are worse.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby smalls1129 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:30 pm

Lead, my only problem with your argument is that it hinges (the Polls at least) on the starting position of each team. If Alabama had started out #20 that one loss would have hurt them bad. But because they were perceived to be the best at the beginning of the season, before even playing one game, it did not. Again, you can talk all you want about how clearly it should be to anyone that they are the two best, but I can't get past the fact that they shared 6 opponents to make them the clear best. It does not seem to matter to anyone but me, and I can't even quite say why it matters so much, but I can't stomach the thought that it is just accepted the two best in the country proved it by beating the same 6 teams. I know that their out of conference opponents matter...but really aren't we saying that all the other conferences are weak as shit and that's why the don't deserve to be in the game. It just feels like a circular argument that is just serving a self fulfilling prophecy.
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Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Ziner wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:
Sea Foam Green wrote:Goes both ways. That's pretty much the point.


This isn't even close to the point.

In what universe is Iowa State half the team LSU is?

At least Alabama lost to the best team in the country.


Right, so we already KNOW they are worse.


Exactly. LSU already beat them, and that win should not be made irrelevant should Alabama beat LSU on a shitty neutral field. Clearly Bama does not deserve a rematch since LSU BEAT THEM ON THEIR OWN FUCKING FIELD. They had their chance and they blew it. Get over it.

I hope the Dawgs upset LSU and we have total mayhem. That would be the best thing since Bing Crosby tap-danced with Danny fucking Kaye.
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