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They're Back!

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They're Back!

Unread postby Orenthal » Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:06 pm

It's Basketball time at the Q!

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/1624 ... e-schedule

Losing games will be the battle cry, and they likely outcome. A matter of how many is key, need another high pick in this deep draft.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby Orenthal » Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:16 pm

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... -a-new-cba

TrueHoop's Michael Berryman :thumb up: with an early look at the winners and losers of the deal. Real early as details and B-issues still have to be worked out...
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby dmiles » Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:21 pm

Thank god. I need some background noise while surfing 'da web, and putting non-OSU college games on is just killing me.

Anyone read deeply enough to see if the draft pick situation is going to be ok for the Cavs? Have they released those details?
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby Orenthal » Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:44 pm

I would assume given a 66 game season it will be standard draft lottery. I can't remember, and google couldn't clarify, if they used any other methodology for the 1999 lottery.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:58 pm

Orenthal wrote:I would assume given a 66 game season it will be standard draft lottery. I can't remember, and google couldn't clarify, if they used any other methodology for the 1999 lottery.


From the stuff I've read OJ is all over it. Nothing changes in terms of draft. Cavs can't afford to get off to start like last season. Sustained suck will win the day ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby scott » Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:05 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Orenthal wrote:I would assume given a 66 game season it will be standard draft lottery. I can't remember, and google couldn't clarify, if they used any other methodology for the 1999 lottery.


From the stuff I've read OJ is all over it. Nothing changes in terms of draft. Cavs can't afford to get off to start like last season. Sustained suck will win the day ;-) ;) :wink:


This team is capable. Especially after they amnesty Baron.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby hiko » Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:25 pm

I'm glad the Cavs are back.

The rest of the league can stay on lockout though. Which, for me, it will (unless the team happens to be playing Cleveland).
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby Orenthal » Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:56 pm

"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby Orenthal » Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:12 pm

I'm not sure it really makes any sense for the Cavaliers to amnesty Baron. Only if you think he is going to be a cancer or cause us to win too many games because cap space means nothing to mid-market Cleveland. Especially when the rumoured amnesty allows those contracts to come off the salary cap. There is also the chance he winds up in Miami* after being cut since teams close to (4 million) can still use the full MLE and Tax teams still get a (3 million) MLE. This would be on top of (or pro-rated) the 13 and 14 million he would get from the Cavaliers.

He may have more value even as a cancer?

*Most of the rumoured info is just that and things can still change/new infor revealed. If waiving him was somehow beneficial to the Cavaliers I would hope his going to Miami wouldn't matter. If/by the time the Cavaliers are ready to challenge he'll be done.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby OldDawg » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:08 pm

Three words for me: PING. PONG. BALLS.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby Cleveland Matt » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:08 pm

I would keep Davis on this roster for this year.

He will be gone after this season anyways

I don't want him to go to the Heat

I think the Cavs should use him at SG because well we don't have one, just let him do what he does best score.

Cassip is probably not going to be ready to start the season because of his injury overseas. Still can't believe we gave up JJ for this guy
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby swerb » Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:22 am

Baron Davis needs to go. His history clearly shows a guy that gets fat and malcontent every time he's not playing for a new deal. The Clippers wanted him away from their young players so bad, they dealt a lottery pick to get rid of him.

Keep him the F away from Kyrie. Don't taint something that pure. And don't let the "nice Baron" from the last couple months of last year fool you.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby RedDawg53 » Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:27 am

swerb wrote:Baron Davis needs to go. His history clearly shows a guy that gets fat and malcontent every time he's not playing for a new deal. The Clippers wanted him away from their young players so bad, they dealt a lottery pick to get rid of him.

Keep him the F away from Kyrie. Don't taint something that pure. And don't let the "nice Baron" from the last couple months of last year fool you.


Swerb, you want to help get rid of Baron? Put him on TCF mount Rushmore. Worked for everyone else in a Cavs uniform. Can't hurt.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby googleeph2 » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:43 am

ouch babe
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby motherscratcher » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:58 am

Cleveland Matt wrote:I would keep Davis on this roster for this year.

He will be gone after this season anyways

I don't want him to go to the Heat

I think the Cavs should use him at SG because well we don't have one, just let him do what he does best score.

Cassip is probably not going to be ready to start the season because of his injury overseas. Still can't believe we gave up JJ for this guy


If I'm not mistaken, I think Davis has 2 years left on his contract. I amnesty him.

Although, before I did that, I would see what I could get for Sessions. If there is a good deal in place for Sessions I would move on it and keep Irving, Gibson, and Davis.

Also, the last thing I'm worried about is Davis ending up on the Heat. Who gives a shit about the Heat? fuck 'em, I'm worried about making the right moves for the Cavs. We can't be worried about that shit. Besides, I'm pretty sure Windy wrote that the Heat are likely to use the Mid level on a center like Dalembert.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby StewieG » Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:05 pm

Davis would likely go to the Lakers if he's amnistied.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby Orenthal » Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:22 pm

What exactly do the Cavaliers do with cap space?
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby Cleveland Matt » Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:47 pm

Davis has a ETO for next season where he would be making $14850,000 I am pretty sure he is not going to opt out of that contract. He will never make that much again. I agree after seeing his contract Davis needs to be gone, but I am not sure Gilbert will do that because I am sure he thinks the Cavs can make the playoffs with this current team.

As far as FA go, I can't see the Cavs signing anyone who will make a real impact. The only player I see who I really like and he fits a need for the Cavs is Arron Afflalo he is a restricted FA for the Nuggets. He can start for the Cavs at SG he can score and play good D on the better SG's in the league. Plus he is young and can grow with the young player on this team.

Here is a list of the FA for this year and next

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/stor ... ents-11-12
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:05 pm

I'm in Ohio and it fucking sucks here.

I want to cry myself to sleep.

No wonder all you dumbasses get married at twenty.

Anyhow, I called to state that yall need to start figuring out what a salary cap floor is and how bad it is going to fuck up the Cavs rebuilding plans. Because it is a reality and it directly impacts amnestying Baron.

Welcome to the NHL's hell.

This is why two NHL teams have gone bankrupt since the last CBA and more have moved.

We HAVE to spend money next year.

Star calculating this into your genius roster evaluations.

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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby Triple-S » Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:38 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:I'm in Ohio and it fucking sucks here.

I want to cry myself to sleep.


I don't want to go "Angry Cleveland Fan" here, but that's kind of a douchey thing to say.

I can see why you've out-grown ohio, and don't fault you for it. But the whole elitist thing is lame. We get it. Boston is great for 20-somethings with a lot of extra income in their pocket. Ohio is dying economically and has shitty sports teams. Ain't nothing new.

The take is boring, and not even all that original. Again, not faulting you for finding happiness somewhere else. Good for you, and I mean that in the most sincere and honest way possible.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:41 pm

I'm going to write something on this trip in the next few weeks.

This has nothing to do with Boston or what is great there, or the death here. It has to do with so, so, so much more.

Not trying to be a hater and some of you are very happy (MOST ALL OF WHOM HAVE FAMILIES!!!!!), but this trip was very eye opening and I had no intention coming into it to feel that way.

Calling a take tired is tired (even though I lazily threw a burn out there and shouldn't have), just sayin'

And I should clarify Ohio by stating "where I grew up and where JB lives"

I have no recent Cleveland experiences and I enjoy C-Bus.

/sorry
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:45 pm

Also, using the word elitist is hyper lame.

Understanding flaws does not mean that one considers themselves better than anyone else. Warts are warts, I have mine and you have yours.

The warts here are just louder and prouder.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby Triple-S » Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:50 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:I have no recent Cleveland experiences and I enjoy C-Bus.

/sorry


Ah. So you're perspective is Y-Town? Have only just barely touched upon actually being there, and those were only with the areas of Boardman and Fitch for short periods of time.

My perspective has been N.Canton/Akron area all my life. C-Bus can be cool agreed on that.
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Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:57 pm

Akron is Y-town's big brother.

Cleveland is their rich relative that inherited some money and has no idea how to handle it.

C-Bus is the smart kid in the family.

And this fucking natural gas Shale Money coming into this region of the country is the scariest thing I have ever seen. Amazing no one has started a thread on it in NHB. Nothing better than making morons rich.

/END THREAD HIJACK

Study up on the cap floor moroons.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby Triple-S » Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:00 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:And this fucking natural gas Shale Money coming into this region of the country is the scariest thing I have ever seen. Amazing no one has started a thread on it in NHB. Nothing better than making morons rich.


Yeah Chesapeake Energy seems to be setting up camp right by the Kent/Field area.

And I guess it can end with that.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby Orenthal » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:24 pm

From what I see the floor is going from 45 to 49 million. 85% of the cap in the first two years and 90% afterward.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketba ... 51428032/1
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:19 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:This is why two NHL teams have gone bankrupt since the last CBA and more have moved.


Which is why I'm curious as to what NBA revenue sharing will look like in the coming years.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby Prosecutor » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:00 am

I'm thinking the compressed schedule might work to the Cavs advantage. There will be instances where teams play on three consecutive nights and I assume plenty of back-to-backs. They'll play five games a week from what I've heard.

This is going to be hell for aging teams like the Celtics, with core players like Ray Allen (15 years in the league), Garnett (16 years), Jermaine O'Neal (15) and Paul Pierce (13). Young teams like the Cavs, who only have two players older than 30 (Davis and Jamison), should be better able to handle this kind of schedule. They have no impact players but waves of young legs with Irving, Boobie, Sessions, Eyenga, TT, Gee, Casspi, Erden, Harangoty, et al. Even AV at 29 can still outrun most 5's.

The 30-something stars like KG with aching knees already will need to take some games off, especially with having to play, get on a plane, and play the next night and sometimes the next. The bench will be a bigger factor than usual, and young teams that play an uptempo game might be able to steal some wins they wouldn't normally get, especially on the back end.

I'll be interested to see if this plays out like I think it will.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby Ziner » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:47 am

I dont see how any of that helps us get more ping pong balls
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby Cleveland Matt » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:07 am

The Blazers are probably going to cut Brandon Roy. THe Cavs should make a big play for this guy. He has a great character and I think would fit right in on this team as a young leader and a guy who can grow with this young team. We need a SG who can score and Roy would be our leading scorer for sure.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby fundamentals » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:50 am

Ziner wrote:I dont see how any of that helps us get more ping pong balls


Probably been said by someone somewhere previously but had there been a lockout of the entire season than I believe next year's lottery would have been based on average number of wins over last 3 years, which would have put Los Cavaliers at a disadvantage because of the presence of MeBron, at least I thought that's how it would have transpired. Now, the Cavaliers can prove their sucktitude night in and night out on the court and get another solid lottery pick in 2012. :clap:
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby StewieG » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:43 pm

Cleveland Matt wrote:The Blazers are probably going to cut Brandon Roy. THe Cavs should make a big play for this guy. He has a great character and I think would fit right in on this team as a young leader and a guy who can grow with this young team. We need a SG who can score and Roy would be our leading scorer for sure.


No. No no no no no. The guy has bone rubbing against bone in both knees. At best he'd be unreliable. It's not worth it for a team like the Cavs to waste space on someone like this. He should go to a contending team with other star players who can make up for his (almost assured) absence. New York or Chicago immediately come to mind.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby Ziner » Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:11 pm

fundamentals wrote:
Ziner wrote:I dont see how any of that helps us get more ping pong balls


Probably been said by someone somewhere previously but had there been a lockout of the entire season than I believe next year's lottery would have been based on average number of wins over last 3 years, which would have put Los Cavaliers at a disadvantage because of the presence of MeBron, at least I thought that's how it would have transpired. Now, the Cavaliers can prove their sucktitude night in and night out on the court and get another solid lottery pick in 2012. :clap:


Sorry, should have used a ^. I was referring to Prosecutors optimistic view of how a shortened condensed season could play to our advantage because we have a young team. Maybe by advantage he meant disadvantage. I am on board with playing the season because I want a chance to show our sucktitude, I just don't like Prosector acting like we can or want to compete this year. Sorry for not making myself clear.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby Orenthal » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:33 pm

Remember my prediction from last year? It went something like LeBron was the key piece, but other guys talent may shine in his absence. Something about like 8ish seed... Remember that god awful, homer, uniformed take? Perhaps Pros is channeling that positive mojo. I have to admit I was feeling that post for a second...

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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby Prosecutor » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:18 pm

Ziner wrote:
fundamentals wrote:
Ziner wrote:I dont see how any of that helps us get more ping pong balls




Sorry, should have used a ^. I was referring to Prosecutors optimistic view of how a shortened condensed season could play to our advantage because we have a young team. Maybe by advantage he meant disadvantage. I am on board with playing the season because I want a chance to show our sucktitude, I just don't like Prosector acting like we can or want to compete this year. Sorry for not making myself clear.


And just to be clear myself, I wasn't suggesting the Cavs can "compete" this year, if by compete you mean making a run at the playoffs. What I said was that the Cavs might be able to steal a few wins against mostly veteran teams who are playing their third game in three nights, or fifth game in seven days. So the Cavs might win a few more than if the games were spaced out like they normally are. Scott is going to have them pushing the pace and older players on opposing teams with aching knees will have to sit out or play limited minutes in some games.

On the other hand, you could argue that less off days means less practices, which would work to the advantage of veteran teams that are bringing back the same core of players and playing the same schemes they've been using for the last five years and can run in their sleep.

If the objective is to get a ping pong ball, I think we're OK there.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby Cleveland Matt » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:42 pm

StewieG wrote:
Cleveland Matt wrote:The Blazers are probably going to cut Brandon Roy. THe Cavs should make a big play for this guy. He has a great character and I think would fit right in on this team as a young leader and a guy who can grow with this young team. We need a SG who can score and Roy would be our leading scorer for sure.


No. No no no no no. The guy has bone rubbing against bone in both knees. At best he'd be unreliable. It's not worth it for a team like the Cavs to waste space on someone like this. He should go to a contending team with other star players who can make up for his (almost assured) absence. New York or Chicago immediately come to mind.



I think he showed in the playoffs this year that he can still play and at a high level. Who else you got to play the SG spot. Sign Anthony Parker and let him score 2 points a game again. I don't expect the Cavs to make any big moves anyways but Roy or Aaron Affalo comes to mind as well to play SG.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby StewieG » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:00 pm

At best, Roy plays well, and we get a 6 seed, a 1st round exit, and entrench ourselves in mediocrity hell (again). The goal of this team should be to be as bad as possible, and get a shot at Drummond, Davis, Barnes, Lamb, or someone of that ilk. I'll agree that the chances of the Cavs making a big splash are almost zero.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby Prosecutor » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:03 pm

If the goal is to be as bad as possible, then Davis will be amnestied and Jamison and AV will be aggressively shopped. If the goal is to win games this year, they'll keep Davis and sign somebody like Anthony Parker. I guess we'll know very soon.

The only downside of the trade with the Clippers which netted Kyrie Irving was that we had to take on Davis' contract. If he's amnestied that money won't count against the cap. How lucky can you get? First, that the Clippers' ping pong ball beat the odds and came up on top with only a 3% chance. Second, that we get out from under Davis' cap hit the first year and might not even have to pay him all the money if somebody else claims him.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby Orenthal » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:18 pm

The roster as it stands is good enough to lose a whole bunch of games.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby Prosecutor » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:32 pm

Orenthal wrote:The roster as it stands is good enough to lose a whole bunch of games.


Yeah, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby swerb » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:00 pm

They should try and resign Ricky Davis and Darius Miles. Smush Parker, Dajuan Wagner, and Chris Mihms still around?

It worked once. Just go with those same guys. Bring Paxson back on as a consultant.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:05 pm

Are we really sweating over the Cavs losing a bunch of games?

Christ, for the history of the franchise sans Lebron, it's been their specialty.

This is one thing Cleveland sports fans can rest easy about.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby bac5665 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:20 pm

And this is why I struggle with enjoying the NBA.

Any system where we want to lose is not a system that I'm interested in. Have to reward attempts at getting better rather than systematically rewarding tanking. It's a garbage system.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:45 pm

I'll watch the games on Christmas Day. I want to see how rusty these fools are. After that the NBA can sink back into the depths of shitty sports oblivion. Nothing worth seeing.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:02 pm

bac5665 wrote:And this is why I struggle with enjoying the NBA.

Any system where we want to lose is not a system that I'm interested in. Have to reward attempts at getting better rather than systematically rewarding tanking. It's a garbage system.


Well, then isn't the NFL and to a lesser extent MLB and NHL garbage systems as well?
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:05 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
bac5665 wrote:And this is why I struggle with enjoying the NBA.

Any system where we want to lose is not a system that I'm interested in. Have to reward attempts at getting better rather than systematically rewarding tanking. It's a garbage system.


Well, then isn't the NFL and to a lesser extent MLB and NHL garbage systems as well?


Yes. But I guess you could argue those drafts are deeper talent wise.

The NFL is the most overrated POS league on Earth.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby bac5665 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:29 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
bac5665 wrote:And this is why I struggle with enjoying the NBA.

Any system where we want to lose is not a system that I'm interested in. Have to reward attempts at getting better rather than systematically rewarding tanking. It's a garbage system.


Well, then isn't the NFL and to a lesser extent MLB and NHL garbage systems as well?


Neither the NFL or the MLB causes it's fans to root for their own teams to lose, at least not nearly as seriously or loudly as in the NBA. We all want Luck, but the fast majority of us are perfectly happy with trying to learn and improve and build a wining culture and Drafting the talent available through that process.

In this forum, anyone hoping for anything other than the Cavs being the worst team in Basketball is laughed off the boards. The Cavs HAVE TO suck or we are doomed. In every other sport, you can get better while winning. The NBA requires you to be the worst team out there for a few years in a row, or be Boston/LA or you cannot win.

The difference is so pronounced and it drives me nuts. I can't root for my team to lose. Can't do it. I know the Cavs need to lose, and I intellectually support that. But I can't watch the team and not root for it to win. If you can, good on you.

But that's why I hate the NBA.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:44 pm

bac5665 wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:
bac5665 wrote:And this is why I struggle with enjoying the NBA.

Any system where we want to lose is not a system that I'm interested in. Have to reward attempts at getting better rather than systematically rewarding tanking. It's a garbage system.


Well, then isn't the NFL and to a lesser extent MLB and NHL garbage systems as well?


Neither the NFL or the MLB causes it's fans to root for their own teams to lose, at least not nearly as seriously or loudly as in the NBA. We all want Luck, but the fast majority of us are perfectly happy with trying to learn and improve and build a wining culture and Drafting the talent available through that process.

In this forum, anyone hoping for anything other than the Cavs being the worst team in Basketball is laughed off the boards. The Cavs HAVE TO suck or we are doomed. In every other sport, you can get better while winning. The NBA requires you to be the worst team out there for a few years in a row, or be Boston/LA or you cannot win.

The difference is so pronounced and it drives me nuts. I can't root for my team to lose. Can't do it. I know the Cavs need to lose, and I intellectually support that. But I can't watch the team and not root for it to win. If you can, good on you.

But that's why I hate the NBA.


Yeah...well..there are four cities on earth where they disagree with you. The four that can win the NBA title in August. Or July... or late June. Whenever it ends. League's like a bowling league fer godsake. I think they have two weeks off after the championship series and then they're right back at it.
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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:11 pm

Sincerely,

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Re: They're Back!

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:22 pm

I don't have any idea how invoking another league where 5-6 teams only have a chance to win the whole thing makes what I said any less true.

None.

Although getting hot in the NCAA tourney and NFL at tourney time opens things up for those sports, baseball is somewhat volatile every year with a couple mid- market teams that get deep and hockey is....well... I don't really have any interest in hockey.

Sorry. I shouldn't shit in a thread that was intended for something else entirely.

;-) ;) :wink:
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