Text Size

College Sports Arena

The SEC and the BCS

Talk Buckeye football and hoops, Viking hoops, as well as all other discussion on college sports in here.

Moderators: peeker643, swerb, danwismar, furls

The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Triple-S » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:25 pm

Since it's looking more and more like it's going to be an LSU-'BAMA NCG, unless some obscure BCS rule intervenes. May I ask two questions to the board about this:

1.) Is there anyway of any conference competing with or overtaking the SEC in terms of ruling college football? If so, how?

2.) Are you disappointed that College Football has perhaps the worst way to decide it's champion, where it's found a way to make 35 post-season match-ups seemingly pointless?
Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.


Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.
User avatar
Triple-S
All-time leader in moral victories
 
Posts: 6379
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:26 pm
Location: Kent-Green, Ohio
Favorite Player: Yuengling
Least Favorite Player: Nati Light.

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby swerb » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:34 pm

The SEC is the best conference. LSU and Alabama are the best two teams this year.

The whining is getting old.
"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

http://www.twitter.com/theclevelandfan
User avatar
swerb
JoBu's bee-yotch
 
Posts: 17918
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:04 pm
Location: Twinsburg, OH
Favorite Player: Mango Hab
Least Favorite Player: Bob LaMonte

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Triple-S » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:36 pm

swerb wrote:The SEC is the best conference. LSU and Alabama are the best two teams this year.

The whining is getting old.


It's not to whine. I'm not denying the SEC is the best atm.

Just, was wondering what would it take for a non-SEC school now-a-days to knock off the juggernauts? or are we stuck with the Big XII/Ten/East/ACC/PAC being cannon fodder?
Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.


Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.
User avatar
Triple-S
All-time leader in moral victories
 
Posts: 6379
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:26 pm
Location: Kent-Green, Ohio
Favorite Player: Yuengling
Least Favorite Player: Nati Light.

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby pup » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:51 pm

You want to play with the SEC?

Hope Hoke is great.
Hope Dantonio can keep it up.
Hope PSU can be saved.
Give Bo some xanax.

That will give you 6 legit teams in the B10ish. Fitzgerald makes his 1 out of 5 years count. Someone wake up Purdue. Tell Illinois to go hire Mike Leach.

Other than that...???
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12020
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Triple-S » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:56 pm

pup wrote:You want to play with the SEC?

Hope Hoke is great.
Hope Dantonio can keep it up.
Hope PSU can be saved.
Give Bo some xanax.

That will give you 6 legit teams in the B10ish. Fitzgerald makes his 1 out of 5 years count. Someone wake up Purdue. Tell Illinois to go hire Mike Leach.

Other than that...???


Great post pup. Kind of what I was looking for in this. Real question, can BIG get the athletes to match up wit the SEC?

my biggest fear again, is that college football becomes in effect a 4 team sport year in and year out, which it almost has seemingly become.
Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.


Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.
User avatar
Triple-S
All-time leader in moral victories
 
Posts: 6379
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:26 pm
Location: Kent-Green, Ohio
Favorite Player: Yuengling
Least Favorite Player: Nati Light.

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby hiko » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:11 am

swerb wrote:The SEC is the best conference. LSU and Alabama are the best two teams this year.

The whining is getting old.


Totally valid. Won't prevent me from looking forward to that Championship Game like a vasectomy without anesthesia. The SEC is the best conference, no doubt, but I don't give a shit about any of them and they put me to sleep.

The only reason to watch is to see the draftable players.
User avatar
hiko
 
Posts: 1052
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:13 am
Favorite Player: Gray
Least Favorite Player: Black and White

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:18 am

Not sure I understand SSS. You admit that the 2 best teams will be playing for the championship while also saying that the BCS is the worst way to determine a Championship? If the 2 best teams are playing, isn't that what you want?

What do you think happened more often?
1. The 2 best football teams play in the NCAA championship
2. The 2 best basketball teams play in the NCAA championship

Personally, Id love an 8 team football playoff. But that's just because I think it would be entertaining as hell. But I don't think it would get us any closer to a "true" champion (whatever that is) than we get right now.

Now, how does a conference compete with the SEC? Pretty much what Pup said. The B1G has it in 'em IMO. We just need a few teams to come together in the same year and not choke.
According to my sources CDT farts in the tub and bites the bubbles.
User avatar
motherscratcher
Little Larry Sellers
 
Posts: 7748
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:14 pm
Location: La La Land
Favorite Player: Ernie Camacho
Least Favorite Player: Jose Mesa

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Triple-S » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:31 am

@mscratcher.

Damn, thats a good argument.

often times with a playoff system, it's not always the best teams, but often the ones that catch heat when it matters most.

I think what it boils down is like you said, entertainment value. Few want to see a game like happened a few weeks a go between 'Bama and LSU play itself out again. They maybe the two best in the country, but it's not entertaining. And that's our only shot at have a meaningful CFB game. With a plus one? you've tripled the amount of meaningful games. 8? 7 meaningful games.

As a football fan, I don't want to see games like the '04, '06, 07 National title games. I think maybe that's my main issue. CFB has the best regular season in all of sports, and we're given often times with a disappointing post season
Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.


Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.
User avatar
Triple-S
All-time leader in moral victories
 
Posts: 6379
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:26 pm
Location: Kent-Green, Ohio
Favorite Player: Yuengling
Least Favorite Player: Nati Light.

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:48 am

swerb wrote:The SEC is the best conference. LSU and Alabama are the best two teams this year.


"You come at the king, you best not miss." 'Bama had their shot, so there's no need for the Field Goal Kicking Competition of the Century Part II. At least there'd be some intrigue with Stanford or Oklahoma State, even if an LSU romp is a foregone conclusion.
"The fucking Who...... If I want to watch old people run around ill go set fire to a nursing home." - CDT
User avatar
Madre Hill, Superstar
Eternal Optimist
 
Posts: 4656
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:06 am
Location: Parma, OH
Favorite Player: The Playa
Least Favorite Player: The Game

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby dmiles » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:53 am

At the height of USC's power years, they seemed to never match up. You had to wonder about some of those power-running USC teams, we might have at least seen an SEC BCS title game loss. Still USC never seemed to take care of business to get into the game with them and the couple of times they went, the SEC was beating up on each other.
On Twitter @DaBashers
User avatar
dmiles
 
Posts: 1110
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:36 am
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby gnati » Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:04 am

This isnt gnew is sports and isnt specific to college football or the SEC. You have seen similar runs in virtually every sport by individual teams and/or conferences...

And in virtually every case, over time, the dominance ends for any number of reasons (coaches leave, miss on draft picks, miss on recruits, miss on free agents, other teams innovate styles, etc.)

The only time it doesn't end is when there is a structural imbalance in the system that creates an unfair advantage for teams. This exists currently in college sports on all levels but people dont really care about it (Ohio State and Akron aren't playing the same game here, the system is rigged for OSU to dominate). The problem with what we are seeing here is that now most of the haves are being dominated by a small and select group of schools. Now I suppose that the state of Alabama just has more good football players than anywhere else in the country, or I suppose that Les Miles is just better than your average bear or I suppose that SEC West schools just gknow what they are doing more than everyone else...

Or it could be that their willingness to cut players based on performance when nobody else is doing that gives them an advantage that other schools dont have making it much easier to do what they are doing...and unless or until this is addressed, we are looking at the gnew normal. The practice of oversigning is the equivalent of the Yankees being able to spend $300 million and other teams not sniffing $100 million. It doesnt guarantee success, just makes it a ton more likely.

I'm just sayin.
gnati
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:16 pm
Location: Butler County Dirt
Favorite Player: .
Least Favorite Player: .

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby jb » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:30 pm

swerb wrote:The SEC is the best conference. LSU and Alabama are the best two teams this year.

The whining is getting old.



Not whining, but saying that game has been played and decided. Alabama lost at home.

NC rematchs suck IMO.
jb
 
Posts: 17730
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:08 pm
Location: Defend Youngstown
Favorite Player: Daddy Rich / Carwa$h
Least Favorite Player: Hines Ward

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby jb » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:36 pm

gnati wrote:
Or it could be that their willingness to cut players based on performance when nobody else is doing that gives them an advantage that other schools dont have making it much easier to do what they are doing...and unless or until this is addressed, we are looking at the gnew normal. The practice of oversigning is the equivalent of the Yankees being able to spend $300 million and other teams not sniffing $100 million. It doesnt guarantee success, just makes it a ton more likely.

I'm just sayin.



Can you speak more to this? I am not familiar and would like to gnow more.

I also recall when everyone said the State of Florida should be broken up.... we'll look at them now.
jb
 
Posts: 17730
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:08 pm
Location: Defend Youngstown
Favorite Player: Daddy Rich / Carwa$h
Least Favorite Player: Hines Ward

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby gnati » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:50 pm

http://oversigning.com/testing/index.ph ... g-numbers/

That site gives all the details, but in a nutshell, even though scholarships are year to year, every school not in the SEC West has been operating in recent years as though they are four year deals. What Alabama, LSU, Arkansas, etc. is doing is basically looking at a kid and if he isnt as good as they thought he was going to be, they cut him...more or less. He comes up with a phantom injury, suddenly finds himself without a scholarship, etc. In practice, if Alabama has, say, 16 scholarships to give they may still sign 25 guys but they just need to be down to 16 by fall...so over the next 6 months, they just happen to have 9 guys leave the program...it allows for them to make up for mistakes and build the kind of depth you see. Similar to if the Yanks sign a $70 Million bust, they just go sign someone else...Milwaukee doesnt have that luxury, they are fucked with that contract on the books until it expires.
gnati
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:16 pm
Location: Butler County Dirt
Favorite Player: .
Least Favorite Player: .

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Triple-S » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:52 pm

^BIG has rules set up specifically against that from what I can recall. Scholarships have to be 4 years.
Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.


Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.
User avatar
Triple-S
All-time leader in moral victories
 
Posts: 6379
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:26 pm
Location: Kent-Green, Ohio
Favorite Player: Yuengling
Least Favorite Player: Nati Light.

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby skatingtripods » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:59 pm

If we take Oklahoma State, Stanford, VA Tech, Houston, Boise, Arkansas, Oregon, and Oklahoma...which of these teams beat LSU or Alabama on a neutral field?

The correct answer: None of them.

Sucks that it's a rematch, but they're the two best teams in the country.

There will be plenty of good bowl matchups in the other games. Make other plans for the BCS Title game.
A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe
User avatar
skatingtripods
Sloth Duncan
 
Posts: 14346
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 12:27 pm
Location: Cleveland
Favorite Player: Mike Aviles
Least Favorite Player: Every Detroit Tiger

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:08 pm

skatingtripods wrote:If we take Oklahoma State, Stanford, VA Tech, Houston, Boise, Arkansas, Oregon, and Oklahoma...which of these teams beat LSU or Alabama on a neutral field?


Won't know if they won't play, will we?
"The fucking Who...... If I want to watch old people run around ill go set fire to a nursing home." - CDT
User avatar
Madre Hill, Superstar
Eternal Optimist
 
Posts: 4656
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:06 am
Location: Parma, OH
Favorite Player: The Playa
Least Favorite Player: The Game

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby skatingtripods » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:09 pm

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:Won't know if they won't play, will we?


Well, they aren't going to.

But none of them beat either team on a neutral field.
A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe
User avatar
skatingtripods
Sloth Duncan
 
Posts: 14346
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 12:27 pm
Location: Cleveland
Favorite Player: Mike Aviles
Least Favorite Player: Every Detroit Tiger

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:10 pm

My absolute favorite part of this year is the fact that the sea parted for those fuckstains from Boise and they blew it.

I never want to hear them bitch again.
“Irony is wasted on the stupid” - Oscar Wilde
User avatar
e0y2e3
Et Tu, Brute?
 
Posts: 13982
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:41 pm
Favorite Player: Prosecutor
Least Favorite Player: motherscratcher

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby swerb » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:51 pm

I don't know ... to me, it's never been more clear who the best two teams are. And the two best teams should play for the title. Or the title isn't a real title.

LSU would be laying 15 points to Okie St, Stanford, or Beamer's goiter.
"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

http://www.twitter.com/theclevelandfan
User avatar
swerb
JoBu's bee-yotch
 
Posts: 17918
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:04 pm
Location: Twinsburg, OH
Favorite Player: Mango Hab
Least Favorite Player: Bob LaMonte

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Sea Foam Green » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:16 pm

gnati wrote:http://oversigning.com/testing/index.php/recruiting-numbers/

That site gives all the details, but in a nutshell, even though scholarships are year to year, every school not in the SEC West has been operating in recent years as though they are four year deals. What Alabama, LSU, Arkansas, etc. is doing is basically looking at a kid and if he isnt as good as they thought he was going to be, they cut him...more or less. He comes up with a phantom injury, suddenly finds himself without a scholarship, etc. In practice, if Alabama has, say, 16 scholarships to give they may still sign 25 guys but they just need to be down to 16 by fall...so over the next 6 months, they just happen to have 9 guys leave the program...it allows for them to make up for mistakes and build the kind of depth you see. Similar to if the Yanks sign a $70 Million bust, they just go sign someone else...Milwaukee doesnt have that luxury, they are fucked with that contract on the books until it expires.


Why do Mississippi State and Iowa State still suck? I get what you're saying, and I understand the logic, but looking at that list I see as many terrible teams oversigning as I do good teams. Now shitty teams/programs probably naturally have a higher attrition rate, I dunno maybe.

I just don't know if it is a valid reason, or if we'd just like it to be a valid reason.
Sea Foam Green
 
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:10 am
Favorite Player: 1st Round Draft Pick
Least Favorite Player: Hines Ward

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby jb » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:32 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:Won't know if they won't play, will we?


Well, they aren't going to.

But none of them beat either team on a neutral field.



And that is why in March the seedings hold true 100% of the time.
jb
 
Posts: 17730
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:08 pm
Location: Defend Youngstown
Favorite Player: Daddy Rich / Carwa$h
Least Favorite Player: Hines Ward

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby jb » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:38 pm

swerb wrote:I don't know ... to me, it's never been more clear who the best two teams are.



If this is true then we should just go back to the pure polls, go back to good old days of the the historic inter-regional pagentry, and forget this nonsense.

The so-called two best teams played. LSU Beat Alabama in Tuscaloosa.

The problem is everyone else self-inflicted so much they can't make a strong case.

The BCS is a complete waste of time.
jb
 
Posts: 17730
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:08 pm
Location: Defend Youngstown
Favorite Player: Daddy Rich / Carwa$h
Least Favorite Player: Hines Ward

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:22 pm

Oh, hey guys. What's going on in here? :pop:



Two sides of the argument presented by Swerb and JB, I'm not sure where I stand. Do you run the risk or ruining your biggest selling point (the reg season is a 12 week playoff)? Has that argument already been disproven, so screw it, let's just have what we feel are the 2 best teams play again? What if LSU loses Jefferson or Mathieu this weekend against Georgia? Would they have been better losing that game in Tuscaloosa afterall?

I don't know. I'm just glad that after '03 (split with USC) and '07 (2 loss champ), we can finally be the team that definitely deserves to be in the game. Let the other guys figure out who deserves to come to the Dome. I'm just hoping this thread doesn't jinx LSU come Saturday night.
"Dammit you piss me off. I f#ckin hate you and I hope you f#cking get killed by a rabid polar bear you douche bag."

-- TIMMAH to CDT
User avatar
Bayou Tribe
"Rickey wants to play baseball"
 
Posts: 2817
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:47 pm
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Favorite Player: Drew Brees
Least Favorite Player: Steve Smith

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby swerb » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:31 pm

Bayou Tribe wrote:Oh, hey guys. What's going on in here? :pop:



Two sides of the argument presented by Swerb and JB, I'm not sure where I stand. Do you run the risk or ruining your biggest selling point (the reg season is a 12 week playoff)? Has that argument already been disproven, so screw it, let's just have what we feel are the 2 best teams play again? What if LSU loses Jefferson or Mathieu this weekend against Georgia? Would they have been better losing that game in Tuscaloosa afterall?

I don't know. I'm just glad that after '03 (split with USC) and '07 (2 loss champ), we can finally be the team that definitely deserves to be in the game. Let the other guys figure out who deserves to come to the Dome. I'm just hoping this thread doesn't jinx LSU come Saturday night.

Even if they lose, they're still in the BCS title game, right?

Even if they lose to UGA in ATL, they will still have the best resume in the country. Wins over BCS #3, #8, and #9.

Just amazing to me that a four or eight team two or three week tournament has not yet bene instituted.
"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

http://www.twitter.com/theclevelandfan
User avatar
swerb
JoBu's bee-yotch
 
Posts: 17918
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:04 pm
Location: Twinsburg, OH
Favorite Player: Mango Hab
Least Favorite Player: Bob LaMonte

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:40 pm

swerb wrote:Even if they lose, they're still in the BCS title game, right?
Sure, you just have to hope you don't have any injuries. That's more in line with what I was referring to in terms of "risk"

Even if they lose to UGA in ATL, they will still have the best resume in the country. Wins over BCS #3, #8, and #9.

Just amazing to me that a four or eight team two or three week tournament has not yet bene instituted.
Seems way too easy not to happen. And I don't buy the bowl sponsor/money argument. There's ways to make sure everyone gets paid.
"Dammit you piss me off. I f#ckin hate you and I hope you f#cking get killed by a rabid polar bear you douche bag."

-- TIMMAH to CDT
User avatar
Bayou Tribe
"Rickey wants to play baseball"
 
Posts: 2817
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:47 pm
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Favorite Player: Drew Brees
Least Favorite Player: Steve Smith

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby smalls1129 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:26 pm

They have 6 common opponents. I cannot say hands down they are the best 2 in the country. Half of their wins are over the SAME opponent. So basically because the SEC started the year out as the presumed best this was bound to happen. It did not play out but there was even talk that Stanford would not leap frog Alabama even if it went undefeated.
"Strangers passing in the street, by chances two separate glances meet and I am you and what I see his me."
User avatar
smalls1129
 
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 1:02 pm
Favorite Player: A-Cab
Least Favorite Player: Squire James

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:34 pm

Bayou Tribe wrote:Oh, hey guys. What's going on in here? :pop:


Just $$$$.

The goal of the BCS is to make shit piles of $$$$ for all involved. Including the insanely powerful Bowl Committees and their sponsors. And along the way to try and match up two of the better teams, as long as they come from power conferences.

The goal of the networks is to make shit piles of $$$$ for all involved by selling advertisng dollars (supporting the sponsors) throughout the year and making sure as manay as people as possible watch all of the games. That's the reason you end up with assinine marketing slogans such as "EVERY GAME IS A PLAYOFF GAME!!!!!" when if that were in fact accurate, LSU would be playing Houston.

Which would never happen, mainly because Tostitos or FedEx or Citi or Allstate would never sponsor a championship game with a non AQ school playing.

I guess these playoffs must be double elimination, and 'Bama wins the losers bracket. Doesn't that mean they need to beat LSU twice to be National Champs?
I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever.
- CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team
User avatar
mattvan1
 
Posts: 3686
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:41 pm
Location: Houston

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:45 pm

Bayou Tribe wrote:Even if they lose, they're still in the BCS title game, right?


A BCS title game in which neither team won their conference.
"The fucking Who...... If I want to watch old people run around ill go set fire to a nursing home." - CDT
User avatar
Madre Hill, Superstar
Eternal Optimist
 
Posts: 4656
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:06 am
Location: Parma, OH
Favorite Player: The Playa
Least Favorite Player: The Game

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby FUDU » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:50 pm

^ Exactly.
Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect.
"I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

2011 TCF Stratomatic Champ
User avatar
FUDU
 
Posts: 13356
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:02 am
Favorite Player: Me
Least Favorite Player: You

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby furls » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:21 pm

I actually just wrote this PM to FUDU about 10mins ago and I think it speaks to why the SEC is so dominant right now.

Here are some of the biggest issues ranked in order of importance IMO:

1. Oversigning. It is rampant in the SEC. I read somewhere that Auburn has signed 34 more players than tOSU in the last 4 years. Think about it, what if tOSU signed as many players as they wanted and then cut the ones that weren't working out. These guys cut people under the guise of medical issues and it is a big BIG deal that offers a pretty significant advantage. Think about it, tOSU would have Bell (RB from MSU) on the roster right now if they weren't accountable for schollies (there are lots of others).

2. Lower Academic Standards: tOSU does not have impossible standards, but they are much higher than they are in the SEC. We routinely see guys that just don't make the grade end up in the SEC or at schools like Cincy (think Latwan Anderson). Anderson ended up at Miami, but he was a 5* that could not qualify at tOSU.

3. Regional Importance: HS football is played at a very high level across the entire south. FL gets all the press but GA, LA, AL and MS all have very good HS football yielding lots of solid prospects. In B1G country the only good football states are OH and PA. Other than that, the rest of the states are pretty bad. MI football is terrible. IL is OK, IN is OK, but not at elite production levels. A lot of that goes back to coaching and culture.

4. Weather: (but not how you guys think). It is a lot easier for sunny florida teams to cherry pick the Illini's prospects than it is for the Illini to cherry pick kids out of Miami. Teenage kids that want to move away from home want to go to nice weather (Los Angeles, Miami, etc.). Not many kids in Miami are saying, "Man, I really like those Indiana weathers." Kids like tOSU, PSU and scUM will get big out of staters, but MSU, Iowa, Wisco etc, are not as likely.

5. Coaching: B1G coaching has really sucked for about 15 years. Tressel was good. Carr was average (at best). DickRod was awful. Paterno has been in a coma for 30 years. Zook is awful. Let's not talk about the shitstreaks that have been running MN, IN, and prior to D'Antonio MSU. Things are looking up now with Meyer at tOSU, Hoke at scUM and Paterno finally being forced out, but all in all the coaches are below average and that makes a huge difference.

6. The Media: If you listened to the media, you would swear there are 2 different species of football players, SEC and others. Brandon Saine was one of the fastest football players in the country last year, but you would never know it because of the way NCAAF is covered. This does affect the way that recruits look at teams. If they think the north is inferior (because they have been told that by the media enough times) elite recruits are less likely to come up. There is a ton of speed in the B1G, the speed difference is really a misnomer. Watch how many of these slow B1G players go on to be NFL starters.

7. Build: The teams in the north are built different. You have to be able to go to Champagne Urbana and win in the 30MPH winds. You have to be able to win in the snow in Madison in November. You cannot do that if you are optimized to throw the ball and run 5 wide. So B1G teams that are built to win their conference struggle in the optimal conditions presented in bowl games.

This year the B1G was just bad football.
Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

-Kingpin74
User avatar
furls
Buckeye Insider
 
Posts: 6426
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Chic Harley
Least Favorite Player: Desmond Howard

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby gnati » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:14 pm

Sea Foam Green wrote:Why do Mississippi State and Iowa State still suck? I get what you're saying, and I understand the logic, but looking at that list I see as many terrible teams oversigning as I do good teams. Now shitty teams/programs probably naturally have a higher attrition rate, I dunno maybe.

I just don't know if it is a valid reason, or if we'd just like it to be a valid reason.


I think its a fair question and I would answer it like this...

If you go to a shitty restaurant and bitch that the food sucks and they offer to make it better by giving you free food...is that going to make you happy?

Mississippi State and Iowa State, etc., have shitty facilities and attract marginal players, getting more shitty players when you have to play against schools that dont have shitty facilities, pay their coaches, and dont attract shitty players...etc...isn't exactly a recipe for success.
gnati
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:16 pm
Location: Butler County Dirt
Favorite Player: .
Least Favorite Player: .

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:22 pm

furls wrote:I actually just wrote this PM to FUDU about 10mins ago and I think it speaks to why the SEC is so dominant right now.

Here are some of the biggest issues ranked in order of importance IMO:

1. Oversigning. It is rampant in the SEC. I read somewhere that Auburn has signed 34 more players than tOSU in the last 4 years. Think about it, what if tOSU signed as many players as they wanted and then cut the ones that weren't working out. These guys cut people under the guise of medical issues and it is a big BIG deal that offers a pretty significant advantage. Think about it, tOSU would have Bell (RB from MSU) on the roster right now if they weren't accountable for schollies (there are lots of others).

2. Lower Academic Standards: tOSU does not have impossible standards, but they are much higher than they are in the SEC. We routinely see guys that just don't make the grade end up in the SEC or at schools like Cincy (think Latwan Anderson). Anderson ended up at Miami, but he was a 5* that could not qualify at tOSU.

3. Regional Importance: HS football is played at a very high level across the entire south. FL gets all the press but GA, LA, AL and MS all have very good HS football yielding lots of solid prospects. In B1G country the only good football states are OH and PA. Other than that, the rest of the states are pretty bad. MI football is terrible. IL is OK, IN is OK, but not at elite production levels. A lot of that goes back to coaching and culture.

4. Weather: (but not how you guys think). It is a lot easier for sunny florida teams to cherry pick the Illini's prospects than it is for the Illini to cherry pick kids out of Miami. Teenage kids that want to move away from home want to go to nice weather (Los Angeles, Miami, etc.). Not many kids in Miami are saying, "Man, I really like those Indiana weathers." Kids like tOSU, PSU and scUM will get big out of staters, but MSU, Iowa, Wisco etc, are not as likely.

5. Coaching: B1G coaching has really sucked for about 15 years. Tressel was good. Carr was average (at best). DickRod was awful. Paterno has been in a coma for 30 years. Zook is awful. Let's not talk about the shitstreaks that have been running MN, IN, and prior to D'Antonio MSU. Things are looking up now with Meyer at tOSU, Hoke at scUM and Paterno finally being forced out, but all in all the coaches are below average and that makes a huge difference.

6. The Media: If you listened to the media, you would swear there are 2 different species of football players, SEC and others. Brandon Saine was one of the fastest football players in the country last year, but you would never know it because of the way NCAAF is covered. This does affect the way that recruits look at teams. If they think the north is inferior (because they have been told that by the media enough times) elite recruits are less likely to come up. There is a ton of speed in the B1G, the speed difference is really a misnomer. Watch how many of these slow B1G players go on to be NFL starters.

7. Build: The teams in the north are built different. You have to be able to go to Champagne Urbana and win in the 30MPH winds. You have to be able to win in the snow in Madison in November. You cannot do that if you are optimized to throw the ball and run 5 wide. So B1G teams that are built to win their conference struggle in the optimal conditions presented in bowl games.

This year the B1G was just bad football.


As usual, Mike, another excellent post.

The fact that you and Donny PM is very disturbing, however. :hide:
I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever.
- CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team
User avatar
mattvan1
 
Posts: 3686
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:41 pm
Location: Houston

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby danwismar » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:34 pm

furls wrote:5. Coaching: B1G coaching has really sucked for about 15 years. Tressel was good. Carr was average (at best). DickRod was awful. Paterno has been in a coma for 30 years. Zook is awful. Let's not talk about the shitstreaks that have been running MN, IN, and prior to D'Antonio MSU. Things are looking up now with Meyer at tOSU, Hoke at scUM and Paterno finally being forced out, but all in all the coaches are below average and that makes a huge difference.


A great post, Furls...but IMO this No. 5 should be higher on your list. Look up and down the Big Ten coaches list and ask yourself if you were a big-time BCS conference program (or one wanting to become big-time in a hurry) who among current Big Ten coaches would you want to entice away from his current job? Before Meyer arrived, I'm thinking maybe Fitzgerald...maybe...and that's pretty much it. I think this is a much bigger factor than most people think it is.

BTW, I heard one of Scout's regional recruiting guys (not Bill Greene) today saying that he rates the WR from Lakeland that OSU landed today (name escapes me) as the #75 overall player in the state of FL...but the thing that amazed me was he said there are 175 seniors in FL this year that are worthy of scholarships to BCS programs. Note: not D-1 programs...BCS conference programs. That blew my mind. Ohio must have...what..guessing...30?...20? Maybe?
"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

Dan's OSU Links - http://bit.ly/1o9DwFo
danwismar
 
Posts: 2550
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:05 pm

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby furls » Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:41 pm

I think FL is generally overrated (and OH underrated) as far as annual numbers and stars are concerned, but your point is not lost on me. As for Southward, I hate to sound like a homer, but the kid is probably underrated. He looks like the best WR prospect in tOSU's 2012 class now. I don't know where he ranks in the state overall, but he is rated pretty highly by everyone but scout. His recruiting was starting to pick up steam.

I would be more excited if he were a camp offer.
Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

-Kingpin74
User avatar
furls
Buckeye Insider
 
Posts: 6426
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Chic Harley
Least Favorite Player: Desmond Howard

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby furls » Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:42 pm

danwismar wrote:
furls wrote:5. Coaching: B1G coaching has really sucked for about 15 years. Tressel was good. Carr was average (at best). DickRod was awful. Paterno has been in a coma for 30 years. Zook is awful. Let's not talk about the shitstreaks that have been running MN, IN, and prior to D'Antonio MSU. Things are looking up now with Meyer at tOSU, Hoke at scUM and Paterno finally being forced out, but all in all the coaches are below average and that makes a huge difference.


A great post, Furls...but IMO this No. 5 should be higher on your list. Look up and down the Big Ten coaches list and ask yourself if you were a big-time BCS conference program (or one wanting to become big-time in a hurry) who among current Big Ten coaches would you want to entice away from his current job? Before Meyer arrived, I'm thinking maybe Fitzgerald...maybe...and that's pretty much it. I think this is a much bigger factor than most people think it is.

BTW, I heard one of Scout's regional recruiting guys (not Bill Greene) today saying that he rates the WR from Lakeland that OSU landed today (name escapes me) as the #75 overall player in the state of FL...but the thing that amazed me was he said there are 175 seniors in FL this year that are worthy of scholarships to BCS programs. Note: not D-1 programs...BCS conference programs. That blew my mind. Ohio must have...what..guessing...30?...20? Maybe?


In reading it again, I think you are right... the coaching should have been #2 or 3. I still think the oversigning is a bigger advantage.
Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

-Kingpin74
User avatar
furls
Buckeye Insider
 
Posts: 6426
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Chic Harley
Least Favorite Player: Desmond Howard

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:24 am

I think #3 and #4 are huge. Oversigning, which has obviously been a huge problem, will drop down on that list eventually. With the new rules that the SEC passed in regards to capping signing classes at 25, you'll start to see some improvement there in the coming year. Good thing Houston Nutt is leaving the conference, he wouldn't know how to operate without being able to ink 30 guys a year.
"Dammit you piss me off. I f#ckin hate you and I hope you f#cking get killed by a rabid polar bear you douche bag."

-- TIMMAH to CDT
User avatar
Bayou Tribe
"Rickey wants to play baseball"
 
Posts: 2817
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:47 pm
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Favorite Player: Drew Brees
Least Favorite Player: Steve Smith

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby hiko » Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:16 am

swerb wrote:I don't know ... to me, it's never been more clear who the best two teams are. And the two best teams should play for the title. Or the title isn't a real title.


It's not a real title anyway, and won't be as long as the BCS hoax is in place. It's a glorified Bowl Game that means slightly more than the rest of the completely meaningless Bowl Games.

I just can't fathom how the guys responsible for the Big Cash Grab don't see the monetary gains that could be had with even a Plus One. But if Penn State has taught us anything, it is how much college football is insulated from common sense and perspective.
User avatar
hiko
 
Posts: 1052
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:13 am
Favorite Player: Gray
Least Favorite Player: Black and White

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:43 am

hiko wrote:
swerb wrote:I don't know ... to me, it's never been more clear who the best two teams are. And the two best teams should play for the title. Or the title isn't a real title.


It's not a real title anyway, and won't be as long as the BCS hoax is in place.



Some years, I agree, but if LSU wins the next two games they play I'd love to hear your argument as to why they aren't the real national champs.

And I'm turning down the homerism here, I'm even aknowledging the split in 03 and the absolute cluster-fuck in 07.
"Dammit you piss me off. I f#ckin hate you and I hope you f#cking get killed by a rabid polar bear you douche bag."

-- TIMMAH to CDT
User avatar
Bayou Tribe
"Rickey wants to play baseball"
 
Posts: 2817
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:47 pm
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Favorite Player: Drew Brees
Least Favorite Player: Steve Smith

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Sea Foam Green » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:06 am

gnati wrote:
Mississippi State and Iowa State, etc., have shitty facilities and attract marginal players, getting more shitty players when you have to play against schools that dont have shitty facilities, pay their coaches, and dont attract shitty players...etc...isn't exactly a recipe for success.


True enough. I suppose the converse is also true; Alabama isn't competing with Iowa State for players. They're taking 25 guys off the top rung of the ladder, whereas ISU is taking 25 2 and 3 star players.

So the comparison, why isn't Iowa State as good as Alabama, really isn't fair. The comparison should be, why is Iowa State so much better than Indiana.....which no one would ever care about.

I'll buy that.
Sea Foam Green
 
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:10 am
Favorite Player: 1st Round Draft Pick
Least Favorite Player: Hines Ward

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Sea Foam Green » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:13 am

Bayou Tribe wrote:
hiko wrote:
swerb wrote:I don't know ... to me, it's never been more clear who the best two teams are. And the two best teams should play for the title. Or the title isn't a real title.


It's not a real title anyway, and won't be as long as the BCS hoax is in place.



Some years, I agree, but if LSU wins the next two games they play I'd love to hear your argument as to why they aren't the real national champs.

And I'm turning down the homerism here, I'm even aknowledging the split in 03 and the absolute cluster-fuck in 07.


Thing is, no method is always going to give you the 'real' champion. Remember a couple years ago when the Patriots went undefeated and beat the shit out of everyone and then lost the super bowl? You honestly want to tell me they weren't the best team in the league that year.

The BCS isn't always fair, but a playoff in CFB this year wouldn't be fair to LSU either. Fact is, and JB mentioned it above, the most fair thing this year would be the old system where we just proclaim LSU the champs after their bowl game, regardless of who it's against.

They are clearly the best team, and are by far the most deserving.
Sea Foam Green
 
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:10 am
Favorite Player: 1st Round Draft Pick
Least Favorite Player: Hines Ward

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Triple-S » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:13 am

Bayou Tribe wrote:Some years, I agree, but if LSU wins the next two games they play I'd love to hear your argument as to why they aren't the real national champs.

And I'm turning down the homerism here, I'm even aknowledging the split in 03 and the absolute cluster-fuck in 07.


There really isn't.

Maybe if say, Houston knocks off (and big time knocks off, like..Utah over 'Bama in 08) -insert quality BCS opponent here,- I could maybe see a small shot of an argument. But I doubt that. Houston seems to be a one trick pony and they really play some inferior competition.

You guys beat WVU, Oregon, 'Bama and Arkansas. And each but one handily at that. 3 on the road. They're also the only major program left in college football that's undefeated.

I see no problem with having LSU as National Champion. I think my beef is just primarily aimed at college football limiting the ability to see some possibly great games in even the smallest form of a playoff.
Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.


Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.
User avatar
Triple-S
All-time leader in moral victories
 
Posts: 6379
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:26 pm
Location: Kent-Green, Ohio
Favorite Player: Yuengling
Least Favorite Player: Nati Light.

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby fundamentals » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:46 am

LSU can lose against Georgia in SEC title game and they still deserve to play in BCS title game. I still hope they win against Georgia and that Oklahoma State wins and can somehow leapfrog the Tide. I don't think Oklahoma State is the second best team but would still like to see how their passing attack would fare against LSU's defense.
I saw the Bama/LSU show once, don't want to see it again, but that's me. The whole thing still is a dumpster fire without a playoff, just my opinion.
"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

"We had a great time together."
fundamentals
Goodwill Ambassador
 
Posts: 2915
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:59 pm
Favorite Player: Mariano Rivera
Least Favorite Player: Rex Ryan

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:14 am

fundamentals wrote:LSU can lose against Georgia in SEC title game and they still deserve to play in BCS title game. I still hope they win against Georgia and that Oklahoma State wins and can somehow leapfrog the Tide. I don't think Oklahoma State is the second best team but would still like to see how their passing attack would fare against LSU's defense.
I saw the Bama/LSU show once, don't want to see it again, but that's me. The whole thing still is a dumpster fire without a playoff, just my opinion.



We're in the same boat here, however I don't think we'll get out way. It's Ok St's fault in the end though. F'n Iowa State, man. You gotta squash teams like that if you want a claim at the end of the season. That was dissapointing.
"Dammit you piss me off. I f#ckin hate you and I hope you f#cking get killed by a rabid polar bear you douche bag."

-- TIMMAH to CDT
User avatar
Bayou Tribe
"Rickey wants to play baseball"
 
Posts: 2817
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:47 pm
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Favorite Player: Drew Brees
Least Favorite Player: Steve Smith

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby fundamentals » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:21 am

Let's say LSU wins against Georgia and then loses a close BCS title game to Alabama. Who is the champion then? :thud:
"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

"We had a great time together."
fundamentals
Goodwill Ambassador
 
Posts: 2915
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:59 pm
Favorite Player: Mariano Rivera
Least Favorite Player: Rex Ryan

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:22 am

mattvan1 wrote:
Bayou Tribe wrote:Oh, hey guys. What's going on in here? :pop:


Just $$$$.

The goal of the BCS is to make shit piles of $$$$ for all involved.



Except that it doesn't.

Every study done shows a men's basketbll type tourney makes much more money.

What it does is keep the money in the pockets of a few.

Time for "Occupoy Bourbon Street". I'm definately in for that! ;-)
jb
 
Posts: 17730
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:08 pm
Location: Defend Youngstown
Favorite Player: Daddy Rich / Carwa$h
Least Favorite Player: Hines Ward

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:53 am

The BCS actually costs most schools money. They're required to buy tickets, they're required to stay at certain hotels.
"Our name is Legion, for we are many."
User avatar
Cerebral_DownTime
Go f#%k yourself
 
Posts: 14422
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:31 am
Location: Galloway Ohio
Favorite Player: Fenrir
Least Favorite Player: Walt Flannigan's dog

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:57 am

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:The BCS actually costs most schools money. They're required to buy tickets, they're required to stay at certain hotels.



Well that dos it.

Time to occupy Pat O'Briens with a hurricaine in each hand. And protest. Yeah, that's it. Protest the BCS.
jb
 
Posts: 17730
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:08 pm
Location: Defend Youngstown
Favorite Player: Daddy Rich / Carwa$h
Least Favorite Player: Hines Ward

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:01 am

jb wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:The BCS actually costs most schools money. They're required to buy tickets, they're required to stay at certain hotels.



Well that dos it.

Time to occupy Pat O'Briens with a hurricaine in each hand. And protest. Yeah, that's it. Protest the BCS.


A hurricane? is that some kind of poofter drink? If it doesn't have "beer" or "bourbon" on the label, I probably won't drink it.
"Our name is Legion, for we are many."
User avatar
Cerebral_DownTime
Go f#%k yourself
 
Posts: 14422
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:31 am
Location: Galloway Ohio
Favorite Player: Fenrir
Least Favorite Player: Walt Flannigan's dog

Re: The SEC and the BCS

Unread postby pup » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:11 am

fundamentals wrote:Let's say LSU wins against Georgia and then loses a close BCS title game to Alabama. Who is the champion then? :thud:


The team that won in the National Championship Game.

Just like if the Steelers beat the Ravens in the AFC Championship Game.
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12020
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Next

Return to College Sports Arena

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 2 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 181 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:50 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests