They're Back!

[Orenthal]

It's Basketball time at the Q!

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/1624 ... e-schedule

Losing games will be the battle cry, and they likely outcome. A matter of how many is key, need another high pick in this deep draft.

[Orenthal]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... -a-new-cba

TrueHoop's Michael Berryman with an early look at the winners and losers of the deal. Real early as details and B-issues still have to be worked out...

[dmiles]

Thank god. I need some background noise while surfing 'da web, and putting non-OSU college games on is just killing me.

Anyone read deeply enough to see if the draft pick situation is going to be ok for the Cavs? Have they released those details?

[Orenthal]

I would assume given a 66 game season it will be standard draft lottery. I can't remember, and google couldn't clarify, if they used any other methodology for the 1999 lottery.

[peeker643]

I would assume given a 66 game season it will be standard draft lottery. I can't remember, and google couldn't clarify, if they used any other methodology for the 1999 lottery.

From the stuff I've read OJ is all over it. Nothing changes in terms of draft. Cavs can't afford to get off to start like last season. Sustained suck will win the day

[scott]

I would assume given a 66 game season it will be standard draft lottery. I can't remember, and google couldn't clarify, if they used any other methodology for the 1999 lottery.

From the stuff I've read OJ is all over it. Nothing changes in terms of draft. Cavs can't afford to get off to start like last season. Sustained suck will win the day

This team is capable. Especially after they amnesty Baron.

[hiko]

I'm glad the Cavs are back.

The rest of the league can stay on lockout though. Which, for me, it will (unless the team happens to be playing Cleveland).

[Orenthal]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/72830 ... key-issues

[Orenthal]

I'm not sure it really makes any sense for the Cavaliers to amnesty Baron. Only if you think he is going to be a cancer or cause us to win too many games because cap space means nothing to mid-market Cleveland. Especially when the rumoured amnesty allows those contracts to come off the salary cap. There is also the chance he winds up in Miami* after being cut since teams close to (4 million) can still use the full MLE and Tax teams still get a (3 million) MLE. This would be on top of (or pro-rated) the 13 and 14 million he would get from the Cavaliers.

He may have more value even as a cancer?

*Most of the rumoured info is just that and things can still change/new infor revealed. If waiving him was somehow beneficial to the Cavaliers I would hope his going to Miami wouldn't matter. If/by the time the Cavaliers are ready to challenge he'll be done.

[OldDawg]

Three words for me: PING. PONG. BALLS.

[Cleveland Matt]

I would keep Davis on this roster for this year.

He will be gone after this season anyways

I don't want him to go to the Heat

I think the Cavs should use him at SG because well we don't have one, just let him do what he does best score.

Cassip is probably not going to be ready to start the season because of his injury overseas. Still can't believe we gave up JJ for this guy

[swerb]

Baron Davis needs to go. His history clearly shows a guy that gets fat and malcontent every time he's not playing for a new deal. The Clippers wanted him away from their young players so bad, they dealt a lottery pick to get rid of him.

Keep him the F away from Kyrie. Don't taint something that pure. And don't let the "nice Baron" from the last couple months of last year fool you.

[RedDawg53]

Baron Davis needs to go. His history clearly shows a guy that gets fat and malcontent every time he's not playing for a new deal. The Clippers wanted him away from their young players so bad, they dealt a lottery pick to get rid of him.

Keep him the F away from Kyrie. Don't taint something that pure. And don't let the "nice Baron" from the last couple months of last year fool you.

Swerb, you want to help get rid of Baron? Put him on TCF mount Rushmore. Worked for everyone else in a Cavs uniform. Can't hurt.

[googleeph2]

ouch babe

[motherscratcher]

I would keep Davis on this roster for this year.

He will be gone after this season anyways

I don't want him to go to the Heat

I think the Cavs should use him at SG because well we don't have one, just let him do what he does best score.

Cassip is probably not going to be ready to start the season because of his injury overseas. Still can't believe we gave up JJ for this guy

If I'm not mistaken, I think Davis has 2 years left on his contract. I amnesty him.

Although, before I did that, I would see what I could get for Sessions. If there is a good deal in place for Sessions I would move on it and keep Irving, Gibson, and Davis.

Also, the last thing I'm worried about is Davis ending up on the Heat. Who gives a shit about the Heat? fuck 'em, I'm worried about making the right moves for the Cavs. We can't be worried about that shit. Besides, I'm pretty sure Windy wrote that the Heat are likely to use the Mid level on a center like Dalembert.

[StewieG]

Davis would likely go to the Lakers if he's amnistied.

[Orenthal]

What exactly do the Cavaliers do with cap space?

[Cleveland Matt]

Davis has a ETO for next season where he would be making $14850,000 I am pretty sure he is not going to opt out of that contract. He will never make that much again. I agree after seeing his contract Davis needs to be gone, but I am not sure Gilbert will do that because I am sure he thinks the Cavs can make the playoffs with this current team.

As far as FA go, I can't see the Cavs signing anyone who will make a real impact. The only player I see who I really like and he fits a need for the Cavs is Arron Afflalo he is a restricted FA for the Nuggets. He can start for the Cavs at SG he can score and play good D on the better SG's in the league. Plus he is young and can grow with the young player on this team.

Here is a list of the FA for this year and next

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/stor ... ents-11-12

[e0y2e3]

I'm in Ohio and it fucking sucks here.

I want to cry myself to sleep.

No wonder all you dumbasses get married at twenty.

Anyhow, I called to state that yall need to start figuring out what a salary cap floor is and how bad it is going to fuck up the Cavs rebuilding plans. Because it is a reality and it directly impacts amnestying Baron.

Welcome to the NHL's hell.

This is why two NHL teams have gone bankrupt since the last CBA and more have moved.

We HAVE to spend money next year.

Star calculating this into your genius roster evaluations.

Dicks.

[Triple-S]

I'm in Ohio and it fucking sucks here.

I want to cry myself to sleep.

I don't want to go "Angry Cleveland Fan" here, but that's kind of a douchey thing to say.

I can see why you've out-grown ohio, and don't fault you for it. But the whole elitist thing is lame. We get it. Boston is great for 20-somethings with a lot of extra income in their pocket. Ohio is dying economically and has shitty sports teams. Ain't nothing new.

The take is boring, and not even all that original. Again, not faulting you for finding happiness somewhere else. Good for you, and I mean that in the most sincere and honest way possible.

[e0y2e3]

I'm going to write something on this trip in the next few weeks.

This has nothing to do with Boston or what is great there, or the death here. It has to do with so, so, so much more.

Not trying to be a hater and some of you are very happy (MOST ALL OF WHOM HAVE FAMILIES!!!!!), but this trip was very eye opening and I had no intention coming into it to feel that way.

Calling a take tired is tired (even though I lazily threw a burn out there and shouldn't have), just sayin'

And I should clarify Ohio by stating "where I grew up and where JB lives"

I have no recent Cleveland experiences and I enjoy C-Bus.

/sorry

[e0y2e3]

Also, using the word elitist is hyper lame.

Understanding flaws does not mean that one considers themselves better than anyone else. Warts are warts, I have mine and you have yours.

The warts here are just louder and prouder.

[Triple-S]

I have no recent Cleveland experiences and I enjoy C-Bus.

/sorry

Ah. So you're perspective is Y-Town? Have only just barely touched upon actually being there, and those were only with the areas of Boardman and Fitch for short periods of time.

My perspective has been N.Canton/Akron area all my life. C-Bus can be cool agreed on that.

[e0y2e3]

Akron is Y-town's big brother.

Cleveland is their rich relative that inherited some money and has no idea how to handle it.

C-Bus is the smart kid in the family.

And this fucking natural gas Shale Money coming into this region of the country is the scariest thing I have ever seen. Amazing no one has started a thread on it in NHB. Nothing better than making morons rich.

/END THREAD HIJACK

Study up on the cap floor moroons.

[Triple-S]

And this fucking natural gas Shale Money coming into this region of the country is the scariest thing I have ever seen. Amazing no one has started a thread on it in NHB. Nothing better than making morons rich.

Yeah Chesapeake Energy seems to be setting up camp right by the Kent/Field area.

And I guess it can end with that.

[Orenthal]

From what I see the floor is going from 45 to 49 million. 85% of the cap in the first two years and 90% afterward.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketba ... 51428032/1

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

This is why two NHL teams have gone bankrupt since the last CBA and more have moved.

Which is why I'm curious as to what NBA revenue sharing will look like in the coming years.

[Prosecutor]

I'm thinking the compressed schedule might work to the Cavs advantage. There will be instances where teams play on three consecutive nights and I assume plenty of back-to-backs. They'll play five games a week from what I've heard.

This is going to be hell for aging teams like the Celtics, with core players like Ray Allen (15 years in the league), Garnett (16 years), Jermaine O'Neal (15) and Paul Pierce (13). Young teams like the Cavs, who only have two players older than 30 (Davis and Jamison), should be better able to handle this kind of schedule. They have no impact players but waves of young legs with Irving, Boobie, Sessions, Eyenga, TT, Gee, Casspi, Erden, Harangoty, et al. Even AV at 29 can still outrun most 5's.

The 30-something stars like KG with aching knees already will need to take some games off, especially with having to play, get on a plane, and play the next night and sometimes the next. The bench will be a bigger factor than usual, and young teams that play an uptempo game might be able to steal some wins they wouldn't normally get, especially on the back end.

I'll be interested to see if this plays out like I think it will.

[Ziner]

I dont see how any of that helps us get more ping pong balls

[Cleveland Matt]

The Blazers are probably going to cut Brandon Roy. THe Cavs should make a big play for this guy. He has a great character and I think would fit right in on this team as a young leader and a guy who can grow with this young team. We need a SG who can score and Roy would be our leading scorer for sure.

[fundamentals]

I dont see how any of that helps us get more ping pong balls

Probably been said by someone somewhere previously but had there been a lockout of the entire season than I believe next year's lottery would have been based on average number of wins over last 3 years, which would have put Los Cavaliers at a disadvantage because of the presence of MeBron, at least I thought that's how it would have transpired. Now, the Cavaliers can prove their sucktitude night in and night out on the court and get another solid lottery pick in 2012.

[StewieG]

The Blazers are probably going to cut Brandon Roy. THe Cavs should make a big play for this guy. He has a great character and I think would fit right in on this team as a young leader and a guy who can grow with this young team. We need a SG who can score and Roy would be our leading scorer for sure.

No. No no no no no. The guy has bone rubbing against bone in both knees. At best he'd be unreliable. It's not worth it for a team like the Cavs to waste space on someone like this. He should go to a contending team with other star players who can make up for his (almost assured) absence. New York or Chicago immediately come to mind.

[Ziner]

I dont see how any of that helps us get more ping pong balls

Probably been said by someone somewhere previously but had there been a lockout of the entire season than I believe next year's lottery would have been based on average number of wins over last 3 years, which would have put Los Cavaliers at a disadvantage because of the presence of MeBron, at least I thought that's how it would have transpired. Now, the Cavaliers can prove their sucktitude night in and night out on the court and get another solid lottery pick in 2012.

Sorry, should have used a ^. I was referring to Prosecutors optimistic view of how a shortened condensed season could play to our advantage because we have a young team. Maybe by advantage he meant disadvantage. I am on board with playing the season because I want a chance to show our sucktitude, I just don't like Prosector acting like we can or want to compete this year. Sorry for not making myself clear.

[Orenthal]

Remember my prediction from last year? It went something like LeBron was the key piece, but other guys talent may shine in his absence. Something about like 8ish seed... Remember that god awful, homer, uniformed take? Perhaps Pros is channeling that positive mojo. I have to admit I was feeling that post for a second...

FREE ENES!

[Prosecutor]

I dont see how any of that helps us get more ping pong balls

Sorry, should have used a ^. I was referring to Prosecutors optimistic view of how a shortened condensed season could play to our advantage because we have a young team. Maybe by advantage he meant disadvantage. I am on board with playing the season because I want a chance to show our sucktitude, I just don't like Prosector acting like we can or want to compete this year. Sorry for not making myself clear.

And just to be clear myself, I wasn't suggesting the Cavs can "compete" this year, if by compete you mean making a run at the playoffs. What I said was that the Cavs might be able to steal a few wins against mostly veteran teams who are playing their third game in three nights, or fifth game in seven days. So the Cavs might win a few more than if the games were spaced out like they normally are. Scott is going to have them pushing the pace and older players on opposing teams with aching knees will have to sit out or play limited minutes in some games.

On the other hand, you could argue that less off days means less practices, which would work to the advantage of veteran teams that are bringing back the same core of players and playing the same schemes they've been using for the last five years and can run in their sleep.

If the objective is to get a ping pong ball, I think we're OK there.

[Cleveland Matt]

The Blazers are probably going to cut Brandon Roy. THe Cavs should make a big play for this guy. He has a great character and I think would fit right in on this team as a young leader and a guy who can grow with this young team. We need a SG who can score and Roy would be our leading scorer for sure.

No. No no no no no. The guy has bone rubbing against bone in both knees. At best he'd be unreliable. It's not worth it for a team like the Cavs to waste space on someone like this. He should go to a contending team with other star players who can make up for his (almost assured) absence. New York or Chicago immediately come to mind.

I think he showed in the playoffs this year that he can still play and at a high level. Who else you got to play the SG spot. Sign Anthony Parker and let him score 2 points a game again. I don't expect the Cavs to make any big moves anyways but Roy or Aaron Affalo comes to mind as well to play SG.

[StewieG]

At best, Roy plays well, and we get a 6 seed, a 1st round exit, and entrench ourselves in mediocrity hell (again). The goal of this team should be to be as bad as possible, and get a shot at Drummond, Davis, Barnes, Lamb, or someone of that ilk. I'll agree that the chances of the Cavs making a big splash are almost zero.

[Prosecutor]

If the goal is to be as bad as possible, then Davis will be amnestied and Jamison and AV will be aggressively shopped. If the goal is to win games this year, they'll keep Davis and sign somebody like Anthony Parker. I guess we'll know very soon.

The only downside of the trade with the Clippers which netted Kyrie Irving was that we had to take on Davis' contract. If he's amnestied that money won't count against the cap. How lucky can you get? First, that the Clippers' ping pong ball beat the odds and came up on top with only a 3% chance. Second, that we get out from under Davis' cap hit the first year and might not even have to pay him all the money if somebody else claims him.

[Orenthal]

The roster as it stands is good enough to lose a whole bunch of games.

[Prosecutor]

The roster as it stands is good enough to lose a whole bunch of games.

Yeah, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[swerb]

They should try and resign Ricky Davis and Darius Miles. Smush Parker, Dajuan Wagner, and Chris Mihms still around?

It worked once. Just go with those same guys. Bring Paxson back on as a consultant.

[leadpipe]

Are we really sweating over the Cavs losing a bunch of games?

Christ, for the history of the franchise sans Lebron, it's been their specialty.

This is one thing Cleveland sports fans can rest easy about.

[bac5665]

And this is why I struggle with enjoying the NBA.

Any system where we want to lose is not a system that I'm interested in. Have to reward attempts at getting better rather than systematically rewarding tanking. It's a garbage system.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

I'll watch the games on Christmas Day. I want to see how rusty these fools are. After that the NBA can sink back into the depths of shitty sports oblivion. Nothing worth seeing.

[motherscratcher]

And this is why I struggle with enjoying the NBA.

Any system where we want to lose is not a system that I'm interested in. Have to reward attempts at getting better rather than systematically rewarding tanking. It's a garbage system.

Well, then isn't the NFL and to a lesser extent MLB and NHL garbage systems as well?

[Cerebral_DownTime]

And this is why I struggle with enjoying the NBA.

Any system where we want to lose is not a system that I'm interested in. Have to reward attempts at getting better rather than systematically rewarding tanking. It's a garbage system.

Well, then isn't the NFL and to a lesser extent MLB and NHL garbage systems as well?

Yes. But I guess you could argue those drafts are deeper talent wise.

The NFL is the most overrated POS league on Earth.

[bac5665]

And this is why I struggle with enjoying the NBA.

Any system where we want to lose is not a system that I'm interested in. Have to reward attempts at getting better rather than systematically rewarding tanking. It's a garbage system.

Well, then isn't the NFL and to a lesser extent MLB and NHL garbage systems as well?

Neither the NFL or the MLB causes it's fans to root for their own teams to lose, at least not nearly as seriously or loudly as in the NBA. We all want Luck, but the fast majority of us are perfectly happy with trying to learn and improve and build a wining culture and Drafting the talent available through that process.

In this forum, anyone hoping for anything other than the Cavs being the worst team in Basketball is laughed off the boards. The Cavs HAVE TO suck or we are doomed. In every other sport, you can get better while winning. The NBA requires you to be the worst team out there for a few years in a row, or be Boston/LA or you cannot win.

The difference is so pronounced and it drives me nuts. I can't root for my team to lose. Can't do it. I know the Cavs need to lose, and I intellectually support that. But I can't watch the team and not root for it to win. If you can, good on you.

But that's why I hate the NBA.

[peeker643]

And this is why I struggle with enjoying the NBA.

Any system where we want to lose is not a system that I'm interested in. Have to reward attempts at getting better rather than systematically rewarding tanking. It's a garbage system.

Well, then isn't the NFL and to a lesser extent MLB and NHL garbage systems as well?

Neither the NFL or the MLB causes it's fans to root for their own teams to lose, at least not nearly as seriously or loudly as in the NBA. We all want Luck, but the fast majority of us are perfectly happy with trying to learn and improve and build a wining culture and Drafting the talent available through that process.

In this forum, anyone hoping for anything other than the Cavs being the worst team in Basketball is laughed off the boards. The Cavs HAVE TO suck or we are doomed. In every other sport, you can get better while winning. The NBA requires you to be the worst team out there for a few years in a row, or be Boston/LA or you cannot win.

The difference is so pronounced and it drives me nuts. I can't root for my team to lose. Can't do it. I know the Cavs need to lose, and I intellectually support that. But I can't watch the team and not root for it to win. If you can, good on you.

But that's why I hate the NBA.

Yeah...well..there are four cities on earth where they disagree with you. The four that can win the NBA title in August. Or July... or late June. Whenever it ends. League's like a bowling league fer godsake. I think they have two weeks off after the championship series and then they're right back at it.

[e0y2e3]

Sincerely,

The Indianapolis Colts Fanbase

[peeker643]

I don't have any idea how invoking another league where 5-6 teams only have a chance to win the whole thing makes what I said any less true.

None.

Although getting hot in the NCAA tourney and NFL at tourney time opens things up for those sports, baseball is somewhat volatile every year with a couple mid- market teams that get deep and hockey is....well... I don't really have any interest in hockey.

Sorry. I shouldn't shit in a thread that was intended for something else entirely.