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Cleveland Browns & The NFL

QB lottery

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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:29 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:And seriously if this team drafts a WR or RB in the top ten Cleveland needs to just march to Berea and burn it down.

There is a lot of analysis I could do to prove that Super Bowl contenders don't draft RBs and WRs in the top ten, but instead I'll just say.... DON'T BE FUCKING STUPID.


Maybe so but, the Browns still aren't going to draft a QB with their 1st pick next yr...

Draft a Franchise QB until you have one.

As far as the Browns' FO is concerned, he is #12 and all the angst in the world isn't going to change that

McCoy can win in the 4th qtr............... and he had an awakening today in the 3rd QTR and its the reason OB ran for a buck plus.....believe it...or don't, and carry on with wasted conjecture
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby sonoranreptile » Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:42 pm

You can tell the offense/Colt had a good day. The game thread is the shortest it's been all year by a long shot. Nothing to whine or moan about. One more offensive lineman and a top receiver and we don't have to rely so much on the Franchise choker anymore......
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby Cleveland Matt » Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:28 pm

I think McCoy can win in this league if he is given the leash to lead this team. How great would it be if we coudl use those two first round picks on players to help build around McCoy. Instead of using one of them on another so called franchise Qb.

Also think about this Holmgren is a very stubborn old man and do you really think he will use a high first round pick on a QB, when he is supposed to be this Qb guru who can find talent lower in the draft. I think it would hurt Holmgren's ego to just draft a QB with that first or even the 2nd first round pick.


I have read a couple different times that the Cowboys would be a team that would liek to sign Hillis. They now have Murray and Hillis could be a nice pairing with him, plus Jerry Jones loves his razorbacks. Does anyone think this would be a crazy trade because I think it could happen and really help the Browns. Trade Hillis for Austin Miles straight up. I think that would help out McCoy and is another position that we would not have to use a draft pick in the draft on until later in the draft.

I would love to see the Browns build the D thought the drafts like they have been doing and use FA to help out the offensive side of the ball.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:50 am

sonoranreptile wrote:You can tell the offense/Colt had a good day. The game thread is the shortest it's been all year by a long shot. Nothing to whine or moan about. One more offensive lineman and a top receiver and we don't have to rely so much on the Franchise choker anymore......


I'm not a Colt basher - no need really, he's got the season to show that he deserves the job......that being said, he and the offense had a good day? By what standards? A good day in a battle between two teams playing the game a half yard at a time perhaps.

A good day compared to teams that REALLY have good days, and hang points?

Good Christ standards have dropped.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby hiko » Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:18 am

leadpipe wrote:
sonoranreptile wrote:You can tell the offense/Colt had a good day. The game thread is the shortest it's been all year by a long shot. Nothing to whine or moan about. One more offensive lineman and a top receiver and we don't have to rely so much on the Franchise choker anymore......


I'm not a Colt basher - no need really, he's got the season to show that he deserves the job......that being said, he and the offense had a good day? By what standards? A good day in a battle between two teams playing the game a half yard at a time perhaps.

A good day compared to teams that REALLY have good days, and hang points?

Good Christ standards have dropped.


I would have to think compared to what they have looked like?

It's hard to look at a guy that usually shoots 110 for 18 holes and call his 98 "progress", but progress it is nonetheless.

Doesn't mean he can ever shoot in the 70's, but you can't fault the guy for doing better.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby sonoranreptile » Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:35 pm

hiko wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
sonoranreptile wrote:You can tell the offense/Colt had a good day. The game thread is the shortest it's been all year by a long shot. Nothing to whine or moan about. One more offensive lineman and a top receiver and we don't have to rely so much on the Franchise choker anymore......


I'm not a Colt basher - no need really, he's got the season to show that he deserves the job......that being said, he and the offense had a good day? By what standards? A good day in a battle between two teams playing the game a half yard at a time perhaps.

A good day compared to teams that REALLY have good days, and hang points?

Good Christ standards have dropped.


I would have to think compared to what they have looked like?

It's hard to look at a guy that usually shoots 110 for 18 holes and call his 98 "progress", but progress it is nonetheless.

Doesn't mean he can ever shoot in the 70's, but you can't fault the guy for doing better.

Exactly what I was getting at. He is not Montana. He did lead the O and they came out with a win despite the horrific last drive by the Jags and out MVP shanking another FG. His QB rating was above 90 for the second game in a row (15pts above his season average), his yards per attempt is above 8 for the second game in a row (2 yards above his season average). He had more time to throw and he made throws. He made them on the run and ran the ball very effectively. Hell, he had 1 less tackle than Sheard. QBs aren't made in a season. Ask both Manning boys how their first seasons went.

Again...they had no off-season, a new offense, a new coach and Madden coverboy is gone as well as his backup. The O-line has been unhealthy all year.

Dude is a proven winner. Yes at the college level. Same as Luck, RGIII, Foles, etc. They all have top notch guys surrounding them. Can we really say the same for Colt at this point?
Last edited by sonoranreptile on Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:38 pm

"BGIIII"

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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby sonoranreptile » Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:45 pm

LOL......for some reason Bubba Gump game to mind...anyway....corrected.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:52 pm

RACIST
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:39 pm

sonoranreptile wrote:You can tell the offense/Colt had a good day. The game thread is the shortest it's been all year by a long shot. Nothing to whine or moan about. One more offensive lineman and a top receiver and we don't have to rely so much on the Franchise choker anymore......


The game thread was short because no one gives a shit anymore.

So, just to be clear, Colt is your guy? Season ends tomorrow, you're not drafting a QB?

And by Franchise Chocker, I assume you mean Randy?
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby yogi » Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:55 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
sonoranreptile wrote:You can tell the offense/Colt had a good day. The game thread is the shortest it's been all year by a long shot. Nothing to whine or moan about. One more offensive lineman and a top receiver and we don't have to rely so much on the Franchise choker anymore......


The game thread was short because no one gives a shit anymore.

So, just to be clear, Colt is your guy? Season ends tomorrow, you're not drafting a QB?

And by Franchise Chocker, I assume you mean Randy?


But the season wont end tomorrow, unless Swerb posts the team pic on the site's header. :dingle:

We have 6 games left against some tough defenses to gauge Colt and the overall team performance and progress. We have plenty of time for our QB options come Jan 2.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby Triple-S » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:23 pm

Scenario that goes through my head.

Browns finish 6-10/7-9 by some sort of miracle.

You're stuck at the ten spot, and 16th respectively.

Barkley, Jones, RG3, and Luck are all off the board. You've tried to trade for them, no dice. McCoy has shown enough that he can at least hold down a spot without going Chuckles Frye, but he's not a true franchise guy. What do you do?
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby pup » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:25 pm

Triple-S wrote:Scenario that goes through my head.

Browns finish 6-10/7-9 by some sort of miracle.

You're stuck at the ten spot, and 16th respectively.

Barkley, Jones, RG3, and Luck are all off the board. You've tried to trade for them, no dice. McCoy has shown enough that he can at least hold down a spot without going Chuckles Frye, but he's not a true franchise guy. What do you do?


Draft BPA.

Same as if all 4 of those guys are there. Just so happens one of them is probably BPA.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby trsteve1 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:01 pm

Cleveland Matt wrote:I have read a couple different times that the Cowboys would be a team that would liek to sign Hillis. They now have Murray and Hillis could be a nice pairing with him, plus Jerry Jones loves his razorbacks. Does anyone think this would be a crazy trade because I think it could happen and really help the Browns. Trade Hillis for Austin Miles straight up. I think that would help out McCoy and is another position that we would not have to use a draft pick in the draft on until later in the draft.


We would have to sign Hillis to a contract, and then trade him to the Cowboys, so I'm thinking no go there. Why trade away Austin, when the Cowboys could sign him in FA? Besides, I don't think Hillis would be worth Austin straight up, especially because of the arrival of Murray.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby hiko » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:03 pm

pup wrote:
Triple-S wrote:Scenario that goes through my head.

Browns finish 6-10/7-9 by some sort of miracle.

You're stuck at the ten spot, and 16th respectively.

Barkley, Jones, RG3, and Luck are all off the board. You've tried to trade for them, no dice. McCoy has shown enough that he can at least hold down a spot without going Chuckles Frye, but he's not a true franchise guy. What do you do?


Draft BPA.

Same as if all 4 of those guys are there. Just so happens one of them is probably BPA.


This. You don't take a QB just to take a QB.

Colt can easily give himself another year by winning his way to a draft pick too low to get his replacement.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby yogi » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:38 pm

hiko wrote:
pup wrote:
Triple-S wrote:Scenario that goes through my head.

Browns finish 6-10/7-9 by some sort of miracle.

You're stuck at the ten spot, and 16th respectively.

Barkley, Jones, RG3, and Luck are all off the board. You've tried to trade for them, no dice. McCoy has shown enough that he can at least hold down a spot without going Chuckles Frye, but he's not a true franchise guy. What do you do?


Draft BPA.

Same as if all 4 of those guys are there. Just so happens one of them is probably BPA.


This. You don't take a QB just to take a QB.

Colt can easily give himself another year by winning his way to a draft pick too low to get his replacement.


But options at that point would be the Texas Tech QB Tannehill, Okla St. QB Weedan and a few others, Im sure SD would be hot for a few others.

There's also the FA route. Matt Flynn and possibly Jason Campbell and have em compete with Colt.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby sonoranreptile » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:40 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
sonoranreptile wrote:You can tell the offense/Colt had a good day. The game thread is the shortest it's been all year by a long shot. Nothing to whine or moan about. One more offensive lineman and a top receiver and we don't have to rely so much on the Franchise choker anymore......


The game thread was short because no one gives a shit anymore.

So, just to be clear, Colt is your guy? Season ends tomorrow, you're not drafting a QB?

And by Franchise Chocker, I assume you mean Randy?

Franchise choker = Dawson.

Franchise tag......choked.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby Triple-S » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:46 pm

Flynn I could see. He's shown some upside enough to be considered in the WCO.

Campbell? Dude's reached his plateau. very meh. Kyle Orton like in the way that you can stick him under center and be a decent game manager on a talented team. Colt's probably on that same level too.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby hiko » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:23 pm

trsteve1 wrote:
Cleveland Matt wrote:I have read a couple different times that the Cowboys would be a team that would liek to sign Hillis. They now have Murray and Hillis could be a nice pairing with him, plus Jerry Jones loves his razorbacks. Does anyone think this would be a crazy trade because I think it could happen and really help the Browns. Trade Hillis for Austin Miles straight up. I think that would help out McCoy and is another position that we would not have to use a draft pick in the draft on until later in the draft.


We would have to sign Hillis to a contract, and then trade him to the Cowboys, so I'm thinking no go there. Why trade away Austin, when the Cowboys could sign him in FA? Besides, I don't think Hillis would be worth Austin straight up, especially because of the arrival of Murray.


Wow, how did I miss that original post?

As Steve, said, Hillis can't be traded unless he signs a contract with the Browns, which I think is a near impossibility at this point. The marriage is over and they've moved into different places.

Plus trading Hillis for Austin? You crazy? What do you think Hillis is worth right now?

The answer is not much. You might - might - get a 5th rounder for him (doubtful), or perhaps Laurent Robinson. Miles Austin? Not in a million years.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby Cleveland Matt » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:05 pm

With Dez Bryant around he will be the #1 WR for Dallas and Robinson is a cheap option for them who has played very good for them. They still have Witten as well. With Murray and Hillis they would have a nice combo at RB that would win you games in december and come playoff time in the cold weather cities.

This is Miles Austin contract.
9/9/2010: Signed a seven-year, $57.168 million contract. The cap-conscious deal contains $18 million guaranteed -- no signing bonus but all of Austin's whopping $17.078 million first-year base salary. 2011: $8.54 million, 2012: $1.15 million, 2013: $6.732 million, 2014: $5.5 million, 2015: $6.888 million, 2016: $11.38 million, 2017: Free Agent


The Browns could put the Franchise tag on Hillis and then trade him for Miles. With the Franchise tag a another tag can trade for the player and the teams could work out the compensation. So I think Austin for HIllis could work out for both teams.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby hiko » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:12 pm

Cleveland Matt wrote:With Dez Bryant around he will be the #1 WR for Dallas and Robinson is a cheap option for them who has played very good for them. They still have Witten as well. With Murray and Hillis they would have a nice combo at RB that would win you games in december and come playoff time in the cold weather cities.

This is Miles Austin contract.
9/9/2010: Signed a seven-year, $57.168 million contract. The cap-conscious deal contains $18 million guaranteed -- no signing bonus but all of Austin's whopping $17.078 million first-year base salary. 2011: $8.54 million, 2012: $1.15 million, 2013: $6.732 million, 2014: $5.5 million, 2015: $6.888 million, 2016: $11.38 million, 2017: Free Agent


The Browns could put the Franchise tag on Hillis and then trade him for Miles. With the Franchise tag a another tag can trade for the player and the teams could work out the compensation. So I think Austin for HIllis could work out for both teams.


If someone were so crazy as to franchise Hillis, his compensation would have to be very good, way more than he's worth (or anyone would be willing to pay him).

But even if you did that, Dallas would have to be nuts to trade Austin for a dime-a-dozen back like Hillis when Bryant-Austin make a great 1-2 punch. Again, no one would do this, not unless Heckert had compromising pictures of them.

Hillis' value is very low right now. I don't see any reason Dallas wouldn't wait until he hit Free Agency and then offered him what they're willing to pay him (which would be a helluva lot less than the franchise amount). If he goes elsewhere, he goes elsewhere - he's hardly irreplaceable.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:18 pm

Just a question for no one in particular, but why would the Cowboys want Hillis? They have Choice, Jones and DeMarco Murray. Murray is 6'1" 230-235lbs.

He's rushed for 700+ yards in 5 weeks and caught more than 20 balls out of the backfield.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby Cleveland Matt » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:27 pm

Like I said I have read that the Cowobys would have interest in Hillis with Jones being from Ar Kansas. They could have been reaching on the subject. Rotoworld and Real GM is where I seen the report.

It is just an idea I had and throw it out there but Choice is on the Redskins now and Felix Jones has shown he is nothing more then a 3rd down back if that he can't stay healthy. More teams are going to a two back system to keep them fresh and injuries always happen. Hillis and Murray would be a nice combo to have.


I for one am fine letting Hillis walk and moving on.

I would like the BRowns to use those two first round picks on the best D player and the best O -linemen.
Use FA to help the offense, maybe Michael Bush will be available. I am not a fan of Hardesty and I don't think he should be our lead back. He is not someone you can count on for the whole year.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:32 pm

Aren't we past the trade deadline anyway?
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:32 pm

Cleveland Matt wrote:Like I said I have read that the Cowobys would have interest in Hillis with Jones being from Ar Kansas. They could have been reaching on the subject. Rotoworld and Real GM is where I seen the report.

It is just an idea I had and throw it out there but Choice is on the Redskins now and Felix Jones has shown he is nothing more then a 3rd down back if that he can't stay healthy. More teams are going to a two back system to keep them fresh and injuries always happen. Hillis and Murray would be a nice combo to have.


I for one am fine letting Hillis walk and moving on.

I would like the BRowns to use those two first round picks on the best D player and the best O -linemen.
Use FA to help the offense, maybe Michael Bush will be available. I am not a fan of Hardesty and I don't think he should be our lead back. He is not someone you can count on for the whole year.


Forgot Choice moved on to the Skins.

Still, I don't see the Cowboys as needing a guy like Hillis. If Murray doesn't step up then yes, but he did and I can't see Hillis going down there for what the franchise tag would cost anyone.

Hillis would be thrilled with a franchise tag though. Thrilled.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby Cleveland Matt » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:39 pm

No doubt, I am just a hopeless dreamer that has been waiting for the Browns to final make a big move and start winning consistently from week to week. I believe Hillis is gone and I am fine with that He is not Holmgrens guy and it is obvious.

I do not think Hillis will get what he is looking for in FA but I will be very interested to finally see what the Browns offer was to him if we every do find that out. Also what team he does sign with and for how much
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby hiko » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:21 pm

Cleveland Matt wrote:No doubt, I am just a hopeless dreamer that has been waiting for the Browns to final make a big move and start winning consistently from week to week. I believe Hillis is gone and I am fine with that He is not Holmgrens guy and it is obvious.

I do not think Hillis will get what he is looking for in FA but I will be very interested to finally see what the Browns offer was to him if we every do find that out. Also what team he does sign with and for how much


He'll probably end up signing somewhere else for less money than what the Browns' final offer was just because he feels "slighted" or whatever.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:59 pm

sonoranreptile wrote:
hiko wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
sonoranreptile wrote:You can tell the offense/Colt had a good day. The game thread is the shortest it's been all year by a long shot. Nothing to whine or moan about. One more offensive lineman and a top receiver and we don't have to rely so much on the Franchise choker anymore......


I'm not a Colt basher - no need really, he's got the season to show that he deserves the job......that being said, he and the offense had a good day? By what standards? A good day in a battle between two teams playing the game a half yard at a time perhaps.

A good day compared to teams that REALLY have good days, and hang points?

Good Christ standards have dropped.


I would have to think compared to what they have looked like?

It's hard to look at a guy that usually shoots 110 for 18 holes and call his 98 "progress", but progress it is nonetheless.

Doesn't mean he can ever shoot in the 70's, but you can't fault the guy for doing better.

Exactly what I was getting at. He is not Montana. He did lead the O and they came out with a win despite the horrific last drive by the Jags and out MVP shanking another FG. His QB rating was above 90 for the second game in a row (15pts above his season average), his yards per attempt is above 8 for the second game in a row (2 yards above his season average). He had more time to throw and he made throws. He made them on the run and ran the ball very effectively. Hell, he had 1 less tackle than Sheard. QBs aren't made in a season. Ask both Manning boys how their first seasons went.

Again...they had no off-season, a new offense, a new coach and Madden coverboy is gone as well as his backup. The O-line has been unhealthy all year.

Dude is a proven winner. Yes at the college level. Same as Luck, RGIII, Foles, etc. They all have top notch guys surrounding them. Can we really say the same for Colt at this point?


SD:

RG3 and Luck are carrying their teams , not the other way around .

But hey if you luv a QB who can only exploit half the field , then no problem because we got that .

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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:24 pm

yogi wrote:
hiko wrote:
pup wrote:
Triple-S wrote:Scenario that goes through my head.

Browns finish 6-10/7-9 by some sort of miracle.

You're stuck at the ten spot, and 16th respectively.

Barkley, Jones, RG3, and Luck are all off the board. You've tried to trade for them, no dice. McCoy has shown enough that he can at least hold down a spot without going Chuckles Frye, but he's not a true franchise guy. What do you do?


Draft BPA.

Same as if all 4 of those guys are there. Just so happens one of them is probably BPA.


This. You don't take a QB just to take a QB.Colt can easily give himself another year by winning his way to a draft pick too low to get his replacement.


But options at that point would be the Texas Tech QB Tannehill, Okla St. QB Weedan and a few others, Im sure SD would be hot for a few others.


There's also the FA route. Matt Flynn and possibly Jason Campbell and have em compete with Colt.


SD:

Wheelen is 27 and will be 28 midway thru next season , the last QB drafted that old was Weinke and he stinky .

The only successful QB drafted that old was Warren Moon who entered the league at 28 after throwing for over 30,000 yards and winning six Grey cup Championships in 6 years at Edmonton.

then added another 30,000 plus in the NFL totaling about 10,000 more than Marino in both leagues .

But his accomplishments are like the Browns going undefeated in the late 40's why the NFL doesn't recognize us. only the Dulphins.

I'd spend the second #1 pick on Flynn if I missed on Barkley or RG3 as we all no Luck will be long gone , the first I'd use on an impact player like Richarson or a stud defensive player if my top QB was gone .

Campbell will be cut with Palmer there , and I also heard Flynn is a free agent , either guy us an upgrade, but I expect the Packers to Franchise Flynn to make a trade .

If they insist on two number ones and won't dicker , I draft Russell Wilson with the quickness and start him tomorrow his game is that ready.

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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby noles1 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:49 am

SD
Russell Wilson is Colt McCoy. 6-0 and fairly mobile. Dont buy the hype of him. He's a career back-up.

As for Flynn, I think him and Hoyer are available this coming year for a #2. Those guys haven't proven a #1 worthy as it stands now but both could be Matt Schaub 2.0's.

That said, I think the 1st, we could go a couple different directions OL or DEF, I think are the leaders.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby sonoranreptile » Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:36 am

noles1 wrote:SD
Russell Wilson is Colt McCoy. 6-0 and fairly mobile. Dont buy the hype of him. He's a career back-up.

As for Flynn, I think him and Hoyer are available this coming year for a #2. Those guys haven't proven a #1 worthy as it stands now but both could be Matt Schaub 2.0's.

That said, I think the 1st, we could go a couple different directions OL or DEF, I think are the leaders.

Exactly what I mean. I would like to add WR to the mix as well.

@SD....which part of the team is "carrying" McCoy...lol?? The defense is making the games close, but they are carrying both the special teams and the offense if anything. Who on the O-side of the ball is carrying McCoy? The 3rd string running back? The plethora of 3rd and 4th wide receivers???
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:24 am

Campbell will be cut with Palmer there , and I also heard Flynn is a free agent , either guy us an upgrade


SD takes are as simple as ABC...Anyone But Colt

Even a perennial loser like Campbell who lost his job to a guy many said was washed up....
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby JCoz » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:45 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:I'd spend the second #1 pick on Flynn if I missed on Barkley or RG3 as we all no Luck will be long gone , the first I'd use on an impact player like Richarson or a stud defensive player if my top QB was gone .

Campbell will be cut with Palmer there , and I also heard Flynn is a free agent , either guy us an upgrade, but I expect the Packers to Franchise Flynn to make a trade .

If they insist on two number ones and won't dicker , I draft Russell Wilson with the quickness and start him tomorrow his game is that ready.

SoulDawg


A mid round 1st on Flynn? ::doh::
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby Govbarney » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:53 pm

I still ask why everyone is writing off Jones as a viable candidate, with the exception of Luck, he is two inches taller then every other QB in consideration.

Right now Drew Bree's, and Matt Staford are the only two QBs you could consider "Franchise" or Stars, who are under 6'4.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby hiko » Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:42 pm

Govbarney wrote:I still ask why everyone is writing off Jones as a viable candidate, with the exception of Luck, he is two inches taller then every other QB in consideration.

Right now Drew Bree's, and Matt Staford are the only two QBs you could consider "Franchise" or Stars, who are under 6'4.


I can only speak for myself when I say "I don't", although I'd put him 4th of the 4.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby mattvan1 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:11 pm

Govbarney wrote:I still ask why everyone is writing off Jones as a viable candidate.......


I don't think anyone is writing off Jones - as Chris notes he is in the top 4. But the French 12 does not have a rep as developing NFL QBs.

Colt McCoy
Sam Bradford
Vince Youg
Sage Rosenfels
Seneca Wallace
Chris Simms
Josh Freeman
Blaine Gabbert
Graham Harrell
Todd Reesing
Sam Keller
Blake Szymanski
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby Govbarney » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:18 pm

Fair enough , I can't argue with the fact that the B12 hasn't produced a decent QB since Troy Aikman ( though I believe the verdict is still out on Bradford ). But I still thinking your taking a big risk taking a QB under 6'4 , to much risk for the first round.
Can a QB under 6'4 succeed in the nfl ? of course, but if you look at many of the past successes it takes a certain set of circumstances most important of which is to get drafted on a team talented enough to give you a few years to mature (not the Browns or their fan base)
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby noles1 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:00 pm

Govbarney wrote:Fair enough , I can't argue with the fact that the B12 hasn't produced a decent QB since Troy Aikman ( though I believe the verdict is still out on Bradford ). But I still thinking your taking a big risk taking a QB under 6'4 , to much risk for the first round.
Can a QB under 6'4 succeed in the nfl ? of course, but if you look at many of the past successes it takes a certain set of circumstances most important of which is to get drafted on a team talented enough to give you a few years to mature (not the Browns or their fan base)


Aikman became a big time QB from his days at UCLA, not OU.

Agree with the talent comment, nonetheless.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:08 am

Govbarney wrote:Fair enough , I can't argue with the fact that the B12 hasn't produced a decent QB since Troy Aikman ( though I believe the verdict is still out on Bradford ). But I still thinking your taking a big risk taking a QB under 6'4 , to much risk for the first round.
Can a QB under 6'4 succeed in the nfl ? of course, but if you look at many of the past successes it takes a certain set of circumstances most important of which is to get drafted on a team talented enough to give you a few years to mature (not the Browns or their fan base)


I'd be willing to wager that the FIRST round QB's drafted that were under 6'4" have just as much success or more as those 6'4" or over. Based simply on the fact that if you got drafted first round at 6'2" you REALLY had to show you were worthy, above and beyond what bigger men had to do. You certainly weren't going to be a "combine" draft pick with poor measurables. Sure, far less smaller drafted, but the % of success I'd think would be similiar.

To draw a a comparison to baseball, the guys with the Kirby Puckett/Bill Madlock builds, well these guys have a pretty good track record. The ones that make it to the show usually end up having real nice careers. Not many fringe types. The reason being coming up through the ranks, ALL they had was what they produced. They weren't getting any extra looks, any special breaks. I'da bet my house that Dustin Pedroia was going to be an excellent player, cause try getting thru to the league barely bigger than a midget. He RAKED his way through. No stop watches or radar guns.

Same with a 6'2" QB.

For the record I'm out on Landry Jones. Not saying he can't be good, just that the system he's in doesn't show me things he needs to be good in the NFL. Again, not saying he can't, but if I'm using my first rouner, I'd sure as hell like to know. And he misses a few too many wide open guys, and throws some bad picks, ILO.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:19 am

I'm just impressed Vick is already not a franchise QB.

Philly has a lot of issues, but it is absurd to blame him alone. And that stinker when he had broken ribs.....
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby hiko » Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:31 pm

2011 QB's by Rating:

Aaron Rodgers - 128.8 - 6'2, 225
Tom Brady - 102.5 - 6'4, 225
Drew Brees - 101.3 - 6'0, 209
Tony Romo - 99.4 - 6'2, 228
Matt Schaub - 96.8 - 6'5, 241
Eli Manning - 94.7 - 6'4, 218
Alex Smith - 93.9 - 6'4, 217
Matthew Stafford - 93.4 - 6'2, 232
POS - 93.1 - 6'5, 241
Matt Hasselbeck - 86.1 - 6'4, 225
Matt Moore - 85.8 - 6'3, 203
Jay Cutler - 85.7 - 6'3, 220
Matt Ryan - 85.5 - 6'4, 217
Ryan Fitzpatrick - 82.4 - 6'2, 225
Phillip Rivers - 81.1 - 6'5, 228
Cam Newton - 80 - 6'5, 248
Carson Palmer - 80 - 6'5, 236
Mark Sanchez - 79.9 - 6'2, 225
Mike Vick - 79.8 - 6'0, 215
Andy Dalton - 79.6 - 6'2, 220
Colt McCoy - 79.2 - 6'1, 215
Tim Tebow - 78.4 - 6'3, 236
Kevin Kolb - 77.8 - 6'3, 218
Joe Flacco - 77.6 - 6'6, 245
Matt Cassel - 76.6 - 6'4, 230
Josh Freeman - 75 - 6'6, 248
Tarvaris Jackson - 73.1 - 6'2, 225
Sam Bradford - 70.9 - 6'4,224
Rex Grossman - 70.1 - 6'1, 225
Curtis Painter - 67.4 - 6'4, 230
Christian Ponder - 67.3 - 6'2, 229
Blaine Gabbert - 64.4 - 6'4, 233

And, just for good measure...

Peyton Manning - 6'5, 230

This list really could be used to make either argument. 3 of the top 4 rated QB's are 6'2 or under, and all you really need to say is "Aaron Rodgers is 6'2" and you've pretty much solidified your position.

But you could also say "10 of the top 15 QB's are taller than 6'2" (sure, 2 of those are 6'3, but technically it's true) if you wanted to make the tall QB argument.

Personally, 6'2, 6'4... if you can play, if you're a playmaker, then those 2 inches mean almost nothing. Just ask yourself this question - if Landry Jones were 6'2, would you even consider him a 1st Rounder?

If the answer is no, then you might be overvaluing him because of his measurables.

EDIT - another crazy thing, 26 points separate #2 (Tom Brady) and #25 (Matt Cassell), the same amount that separates Aaron Rodgers from #2.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby Govbarney » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:07 pm

Great list, I was looking all over the internet for something like that.

These three all fall in line with my theory of being under 6'4 and successful because they had time to mature:
Aaron Rodgers - 128.8 - 6'2, 225
Drew Brees - 101.3 - 6'0, 209
Tony Romo - 99.4 - 6'2, 228

These guys all came out and made an instant impact, and in many cases it was on a less then stellar team w/ a inpatient fan base:
Matt Schaub - 96.8 - 6'5, 241
Eli Manning - 94.7 - 6'4, 218
Matthew Stafford - 93.4 - 6'2, 232
POS - 93.1 - 6'5, 241
Matt Ryan - 85.5 - 6'4, 217
Phillip Rivers - 81.1 - 6'5, 228
Cam Newton - 80 - 6'5, 248 (team hasn't turned around yet , but the QB is making a impact)

One notable exception to this looks to be Mr. Andy Dalton - 79.6 - 6'2, 220, but I would say the verdict is still out on him.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:23 pm

Good point on the time to mature thing. I think people forget exactly the situation Aaron Rogers was forced to deal with, an ideal one. Sit and learn some stuff from a HOFr, regardless of how one views Favre's game. Then when you get your chance you have an ENTIRE team, most importantly an offense, in place around you.

POS as well.

That can never be over stated.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:29 pm

Matt Schaub matured behind Vick in Atlanta, he was anything but thrown to the wolves.

But hey, you're trying to find a correlation between time spent sitting behind an established QB and height, so who I am to argue....


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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby hiko » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:47 pm

FUDU wrote:Good point on the time to mature thing. I think people forget exactly the situation Aaron Rogers was forced to deal with, an ideal one. Sit and learn some stuff from a HOFr, regardless of how one views Favre's game. Then when you get your chance you have an ENTIRE team, most importantly an offense, in place around you.

POS as well.

That can never be over stated.


POS started 13 games as a rook and never sat again.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:59 pm

He walked into a nicely set up team was what I was going for there. You know, say hike, turn around, hand the ball off & clap your hands type offense.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby Nicastro13 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:14 pm

I've been on RG3 since before the season, fun to watch, very talented, and Barkely has been heating up of late and played a great game against Oregon. Put me down for either of these when we land in the top 5! Oh BTW I don't know how tall either one is
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby hiko » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:54 pm

FUDU wrote:He walked into a nicely set up team was what I was going for there. You know, say hike, turn around, hand the ball off & clap your hands type offense.


That much is certainly true. He blew ass those first two years, yet still had a bunch of wins and a ring to show for it.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby hiko » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:54 pm

Nicastro13 wrote:I've been on RG3 since before the season, fun to watch, very talented, and Barkely has been heating up of late and played a great game against Oregon. Put me down for either of these when we land in the top 5! Oh BTW I don't know how tall either one is


Both 6'2.
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Re: QB lottery

Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:38 pm

FUDU wrote:Good point on the time to mature thing. I think people forget exactly the situation Aaron Rogers was forced to deal with, an ideal one. Sit and learn some stuff from a HOFr, regardless of how one views Favre's game. Then when you get your chance you have an ENTIRE team, most importantly an offense, in place around you.

POS as well.

That can never be over stated.


It's been pretty well documented that Rodgers learned little from Favre. And it's pretty clear he didn't pick up the "throwing into triple coverage ridiculous interception" thing.

Walking onto a good team makes a difference.

Being tutored not so much.

Whether Rodgers got ignored by Favre, or Young got cold shouldered by Montana cause he was a threat to the job made zero impact. Same as Peyton following Jack Trudeau or whatever hump on a bad Colt team had little impact on his career.

If you can PLAY you can PLAY. And it shows up more quickly on a good team. But if you can PLAY that position, eventually your team becomes good. As evidenced by the fact that you can't name Hall of Famers that played on bad teams throughout their careers.

Aaaron Rodgers could've followed Doug Pederson, as Favre did, and we'd be looking at the same GD player.
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