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Sandusky

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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby jb » Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:52 pm

AAU once served a very imporatnt role before the NCAA and pro sports leagues. Like everything else it was corrupted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_Athletic_Union
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby danwismar » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:06 pm

HoodooMan wrote:Anyone who supports PSU football contributes to an atmosphere where, to take one of several examples from that Grand Jury Report, a janitor's first thought upon witnessing Sandusky blowing a kid in the shower is to fear for his job if he says anything.


this is a great point.

The DA Ray Gricar had a similar dilemma on a whole different level, it seems.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby noles1 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:13 pm

Few more thoughts...

Links floating around the internet that Sandusky lived 1,000 ft. from an Elementary school.

Also caught Bilas, Mike & Mike this morning, along with Rome & Hammer/Cherry over lunch. Basically agreed with them all.

Rome had some audio from JoePa from last night that once it gets out this afternoon, along with the video is going to be sickening.

Rome had a caller who sent his kid to the camp and you could hear his concern seeping thru as he spoke. This has to be traumatizing and agonizing to parents who may have sent their kids thru this program.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:18 pm

There is no way you can let Paterno and McQueary coach anymore games. No. Fucking. Way.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby hiko » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:23 pm

Just now reading/hearing about the Case of the Missing DA.

If it were a movie you'd laugh that the plot was too far-fetched.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby JCoz » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:26 pm

danwismar wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:Anyone who supports PSU football contributes to an atmosphere where, to take one of several examples from that Grand Jury Report, a janitor's first thought upon witnessing Sandusky blowing a kid in the shower is to fear for his job if he says anything.


this is a great point.

The DA Ray Gricar had a similar dilemma on a whole different level, it seems.


It's a point but it really isn't unique to Penn State, and certainly not college football. The fans are largely collateral in this. These are powerful institution problems. Unchecked power, greed, self preservation insticts kicking in for people with something to lose. You don't need adoring fans to create that environment.

It's to easy and maybe lazy to zero in on college or pro sports because its right in front of peoples noses right now,

Government,Wallstreet,the Catholic church ,Big Time College football.Among hundreds of other examples.

Big Institutions. Big Power. Big Money.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby noles1 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:34 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:There is no way you can let Paterno and McQueary coach anymore games. No. Fucking. Way.


+1,000,000

Trustees meet tonight and a presser is called tomorrow. As Bilas said this morning, "why are we waiting for Paterno to speak, what can he say that will make this even remotely defensible. This is not complicated. What needs to be done is simple."

Another "fun" tidbit... guess who is a chairman on the BCS committee... Spanier. This guy is as high up in the NCAA rank and file as nearly one could be.

Unreal and shocking.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:36 pm

jb wrote:http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11313/1188680-100.stm

Paterno may not get to go out according to how he's dictating terms.

If these dorks can't see the fact that the image of paterno "coaching" or whatever the freak he does the next several Saturdays and on bowl day will leav an indelible stench on everythin Penn State even worse that it has they are derelict.


Yep.... the man has no business leading the team onto the field this Sat or any other and he should have been whacked yesterday...

He shows no grace or respect by continuing on and needs to be shitcanned sooner rather than later but I guess they have to have their meeting.

I give him about 6-8 weeks till he croaks
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:40 pm

JCoz wrote:
danwismar wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:Anyone who supports PSU football contributes to an atmosphere where, to take one of several examples from that Grand Jury Report, a janitor's first thought upon witnessing Sandusky blowing a kid in the shower is to fear for his job if he says anything.


this is a great point.

The DA Ray Gricar had a similar dilemma on a whole different level, it seems.


It's a point but it really isn't unique to Penn State, and certainly not college football. The fans are largely collateral in this. These are powerful institution problems. Unchecked power, greed, self preservation insticts kicking in for people with something to lose. You don't need adoring fans to create that environment.

It's to easy and maybe lazy to zero in on college or pro sports because its right in front of peoples noses right now,

Government,Wallstreet,the Catholic church ,Big Time College football.Among hundreds of other examples.

Big Institutions. Big Power. Big Money.


I'm not sure I agree with all of that.

Outside of religion & sports, I don't know that you have the kind of irrational, fervent, unconditional support necessary to empower people to this degree. I've felt the same way watching political conventions before, but even in politics there are enough checks on power--like half of the country badly wanting to see you fail & out of office, the self-preservation instincts of political allies who have no qualms over treating each other like lepers at the first sight of political scandal--that it's difficult to imagine something like this happening.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:43 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:There is no way you can let Paterno and McQueary coach anymore games. No. Fucking. Way.


McQueary is the most culpable of all imo

A grown man who had to go home and tell his daddy and then his coach instead of stepping up and doing what any grown man should have done...stopping it and then beating the crap out of Sandusky
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:44 pm

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:He shows no grace or respect by continuing on...


Unprecedented behavior from JoePa, no?

Not trying to needle a PSU fan; just pointing out how we've seen plenty manifestations of this trait from Paterno before. It seems he was really determined to outlast Bobby Bowden at any cost, doesn't it. (<--why I feel that part of his punishment should include vacating wins)
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby JCoz » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:54 pm

HoodooMan wrote:I'm not sure I agree with all of that.

Outside of religion & sports, I don't know that you have the kind of irrational, fervent, unconditional support necessary to empower people to this degree. I've felt the same way watching political conventions before, but even in politics there are enough checks on power--like half of the country badly wanting to see you fail & out of office, the self-preservation instincts of political allies who have no qualms over treating each other like lepers at the first sight of political scandal--that it's difficult to imagine something like this happening.


I'm just not in agreement that what this requires is ferverent, unconditional support. But I'm not all that interested in debating and finding myself in some kind of defense position for college athletics when I clearly find them as one of the institutions that present serious problems.

I just do not agree this is unique to itelf and religion.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:00 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
Fire Marshall Bill wrote:He shows no grace or respect by continuing on...


Unprecedented behavior from JoePa, no?

Not trying to needle a PSU fan; just pointing out how we've seen plenty manifestations of this trait from Paterno before. It seems he was really determined to outlast Bobby Bowden at any cost, doesn't it. (<--why I feel that part of his punishment should include vacating wins)


Meh....FUDU can tell you I've not been a JoePa fan for over a decade

I'm not offended by any of this as I've been preaching for 20 yrs or more our general stupidity on spending so much time and money on sports

I know he's been a dick....likely his being such a dick is why he doesn't have a couple more titles

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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby hiko » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:15 pm

HoodooMan wrote:I'm not sure I agree with all of that.

Outside of religion & sports, I don't know that you have the kind of irrational, fervent, unconditional support necessary to empower people to this degree. I've felt the same way watching political conventions before, but even in politics there are enough checks on power--like half of the country badly wanting to see you fail & out of office, the self-preservation instincts of political allies who have no qualms over treating each other like lepers at the first sight of political scandal--that it's difficult to imagine something like this happening.


Dan, my friend, that is somewhat naive. Plenty of people are addled by politics the way some are addled by religion & sports. Talk radio in the afternoons is unlistenable. Some dude shot some Arizona chick in the head. Politics, Sports, & Religion are probably the Big 3, but there are infinitely more than that.

Hell, some people even stalk/kill actresses, and who gives a shit about those shallow bitches?

Hard to say what people will get obsessed with.

Right now, for me, it's this. Oliver Stone is envious of the way this plot is unfolding.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby hiko » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:21 pm

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:There is no way you can let Paterno and McQueary coach anymore games. No. Fucking. Way.


McQueary is the most culpable of all imo

A grown man who had to go home and tell his daddy and then his coach instead of stepping up and doing what any grown man should have done...stopping it and then beating the crap out of Sandusky


That is horrible. But Schultz and Curley are more culpable in my mind, because they purposely covered it up which is probably a greater crime than extreme cowardice.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:28 pm

Maybe I should have italicized "to this degree"?

Obviously, there are many, many sources of corruptible power, but who's the politician that sees this kind of support in a scandal this bad?
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby hiko » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:30 pm

HoodooMan wrote:Maybe I should have italicized "to this degree"?

Obviously, there are many, many sources of corruptible power, but who's the politician that sees this kind of support in a scandal this bad?


I'd bet my life it would happen. Not that that's worth much.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:36 pm

US Dept of Ed now investigating and PA Gov to hold a presser tonight.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:38 pm

I like to think I'm pretty sensitive to people's general ability to delude themselves into believing what they want to believe, reinforcing prior stances/feelings/etc, but...



If Obama/Conservative-Politician-It's-Even-Easier-To-Believe-Bad-Things-About played Joe Paterno's role in a scandal like this, I think you'd have a hell of a time finding people who felt he should finish out his term unscathed.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:40 pm

^ CORRECT
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby hiko » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:41 pm

HoodooMan wrote:I like to think I'm pretty sensitive to people's general ability to delude themselves into believing what they want to believe, reinforcing prior stances/feelings/etc, but...



If Obama/Conservative-Politician-It's-Even-Easier-To-Believe-Bad-Things-About played Joe Paterno's role in a scandal like this, I think you'd have a hell of a time finding people who felt he should finish out his term unscathed.


I respectfully disagree. I've watched about 30 seconds of Fox News in the last year, and that was enough to convince me that the polarization has gone insane.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby swerb » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:41 pm

This is the ultimate scarlet letter.

Football team will win 6-8 games the next couple years. And then turn into Minnesota. Who is gonna go there? What big time recruit with all kinds of options is gonna pick Penn State? They're done. And it's not the kinda stink that is gonna wear off anytime soon.

Football team is gonna go down the tubes. Basketball's always sucked there too. Gonna crush revenues for the school. A sad, slow, public, painful death for a revered University.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:44 pm

Anthony Wiener? Airport Foot Tapper Guy?

Eh, I just don't see it.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:45 pm

You do realize how quick the conservatives cut bait on the like twenty senators that had gay affairs in the last decade, right hiko?
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby danwismar » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:06 pm

I'd agree with Coz that this is certainly not a situation unique to "sports and religion". Underlings who keep quiet about misbehavior by upper-ups because they fear losing their jobs is a situation that plays out every day in private business, government and everywhere else there is a hierarchy and chain of command.

That's why there's a huge difference between the janitor (and even McQueary, IMO) and Paterno. Paterno's job would probably not have been at risk in 2002 had he done the right thing then (or in 1998?)
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:31 pm

“Irony is wasted on the stupid” - Oscar Wilde
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby JCoz » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:34 pm

HoodooMan wrote:Maybe I should have italicized "to this degree"?

Obviously, there are many, many sources of corruptible power, but who's the politician that sees this kind of support in a scandal this bad?


I dont think we are talking about the same things. I'm talking about the things that allow problems like this to arise, not what happens after the cat is out of the bag.

Worthless "support" after the fact, is IMO, immaterial. Jo Pa will not likely make it to a road game even if he makes it through the weekend, which I find highly unlikely.

And the kids on the lawn are also immaterial. Kids are freaking stupid, but not nearly as freaking stupid as large groups of freaking stupid kids. There is a clear cut difference in the attitude of older alums and the perspective-less kids and players, with the lone exception of that idiot president. And he's canned already.

How does any of that matter when everyone who had anything to do with this will be gone in short order? How is that support in any meaningful sense vs political roach scattering?

Is it a less offensive abuse of power if when found, everyone disassociates with the speed of roaches from bright lights?
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby noles1 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:45 pm

FUDU wrote:
jclvd_23 wrote:I scanned the thread and hadn't seen this linked yet. Pretty incredible interview with some information concerning the DA going missing, and the power Joe Pa actually had/has over the entire university.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tqa9OvJv ... r_embedded

Wow the last minute of that....JFC.



Yeah, the DA stuff and the last 5 minutes... Jesus.

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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby Rat_Tail » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:00 pm

I don't see how his wife didn't suspect anything.

That report said many of the victims stayed the night at his house on multiple occasions. I find that by itself odd. Not to mention he would molest them in his basement after dark. You'd figure his wife would wonder why he would make constant trips to the basement when he had a kid over.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby JCoz » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:07 pm

Rat_Tail wrote:I don't see how his wife didn't suspect anything.

That report said many of the victims stayed the night at his house on multiple occasions. I find that by itself odd. Not to mention he would molest them in his basement after dark. You'd figure his wife would wonder why he would make constant trips to the basement when he had a kid over.


I think I read somewhere that she wasn't usually there, which IMO, still doesnt reduce the questions surrounding her
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:18 pm

His wife made calls to one of the victims in advance of their grand jury appearance trying to get in touch with him obo her husband . I'd be stunned if she had no ideas. She sure as shit had an idea when she made the call.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:20 pm

JCoz wrote:I dont think we are talking about the same things. I'm talking about the things that allow problems like this to arise, not what happens after the cat is out of the bag.


The two seem too intertwined to separate for me.

What allows a problem like this to arise is unchecked status/power and the support after the fact seems to me to be a reflection of the level of status/power he had. Unconditional support is a pretty significant source of power.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby hiko » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:16 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:You do realize how quick the conservatives cut bait on the like twenty senators that had gay affairs in the last decade, right hiko?


Oh yes, and watch how quickly the people in power cut bait on Paterno.

I'm talking about how easy it is to find 1500 sychophants to follow your righteous cause, no matter what realm it's in.

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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby danwismar » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:51 pm

trying to post just the good stuff...

John Ondrasik...just another disaffected sportswriter....

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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/w ... index.html

he links to this, a 1999 SI cover story on pedophiles in youth sports coaching...long, but excellent... and spot on with Sandusky

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby Triple-S » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:56 pm

roadmanwknr Kenny Roda
ABC news in Philadelphia is reporting that Joe Paterno will not coach another game & PSU President Graham Spanier has resigned
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Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby Triple-S » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:58 pm

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.


Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby Triple-S » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:10 pm

BlairMiller9 Blair Miller
NBC in Philly reports police in riot gear gathering outside Paterno's house as announcement of departure comes
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Ben Jones
Ben_Jones88 Ben Jones
Can confirm: Paterno and Spanier out.
Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.


Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby noles1 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:18 pm

Trustees came in and made the right call on the President and JoePa.

Need to put McQueary on leave as well.

The circus that was to be Saturday can subside a little bit and PSU can begin the rebuilding process.

Any outrage from the media or the PSU public is utterly ridiculous but likely.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:26 pm

Everyone interested in this should be following Ben_Jones88, a student writer that did a good enough job yesterday he did the national tour today and he'll be on the ground tonight.

He already said the university may burn down.

Apparently PSU students love to riot about everything and anything and this is their best excuse to riot (????) in ages.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby noles1 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:38 pm

Just listened to the press conference and I have to say the snotty, student reporter hogging the limelight with his stupid pro-Paterno spin on questions.

Kid is a complete douche. And will likely aid to the hysteria that is sure to encompass the student body tonight. PSU is going to be UGLY... and at the root of it, they are going to be rioting behind a man and administration that neglected to handle a major criminal and moral objection.

My major issue with the Trustees comments were that they made no comment on the victims. That said, they may not have been given the ability to do so in light of the pending litigation.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby hiko » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:38 pm

Paterno gone. Had to be done. There's no other acceptable resolution in this matter.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:45 pm

noles1 wrote:Just listened to the press conference and I have to say the snotty, student reporter hogging the limelight with his stupid pro-Paterno spin on questions.


In general, it felt like a very local, pro-Paterno group of reporters. Was anyone from the national media even there?
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby hiko » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:49 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
noles1 wrote:Just listened to the press conference and I have to say the snotty, student reporter hogging the limelight with his stupid pro-Paterno spin on questions.


In general, it felt like a very local, pro-Paterno group of reporters. Was anyone from the national media even there?


Yeah, that press conference made me wish I had a blowtorch. And I was there.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby noles1 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:56 pm

Heard a couple Rinaldi questions but for the most part, mostly seemed local.

Agreed.

Rinaldi is a bufoon though so limited perspective there.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:59 pm

Rinaldi literally mentioned Tressel more than Paterno in a segment about him today.

And all of the national guys are there, but I think the PSU student body blocked them out.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:19 am

“Irony is wasted on the stupid” - Oscar Wilde
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby noles1 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:33 am

e0y2e3 wrote:The rabbit hole gets deeper: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/10/sport ... r=1&src=tp


This piggybacks the Francesca interview posted earlier.

What it also does is pave the way for what they touched on albeit briefly and without concrete facts yet...

The more digging that takes place here, the WORSE this is going to get. I believe the Trustees made this decision based on the distinct possibility they know or are privy to information that may blow the doors off this damn thing. Throw in they would have carried the old bastard off the field more than likely, the University could not simply allow that shitshow to take place.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:57 am

“Irony is wasted on the stupid” - Oscar Wilde
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:03 am

tywalkerticket Ty Walker
Penn State University Radio reporting rumor that senior players will refuse to play Saturday in protest of Paterno's firing...
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby noles1 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:13 am

e0y2e3 wrote:tywalkerticket Ty Walker
Penn State University Radio reporting rumor that senior players will refuse to play Saturday in protest of Paterno's firing...


Then they are idiots and need some serious parental guidance to direct them appropriately.

Found this interesting... echos my previous statements and some others, incl. you e0

@MarkMaddenX Mark Madden Don't believe this can get worse? Give it 72 hrs. People really digging into Second Mile. Even more shocking revelation is ahead. Yikes.
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