Sandusky

[dmiles]

Quite possibly the most horrific thing to ever happen in sports.

Some interesting stuff from having read up on some things:
- Sports reporters gives JoePa a pass, including Bob Ryan intimating JoePa had more honor than Jim Tressel because he "at least reported it to his AD". What a fuck-stick.
- PSU fans predictably defending JoePa, as any fanbase might. I think that will soon start to crumble when people ask who was protecting the little kids.

- My thought is what became of the little boy that the Grad Assistant (McCeary it's being reported) reported this stuff in 2002 to JoePa who informed Curley. That's it? Nobody saw to it that the little boy was taken care of? Nobody busted up Sandusky's Second Mile Foundation?
- What becomes of PSU football? Seriously this is not going to end well. Lawyers will be all over the place, civil suits, non-stop investigations.

- Lastly, Furls and others have spoken on here about perhaps getting a little too into college sports. Is the pressure to win, and the pressure to maintain some aura of superiority so great that nobody in that institution bothered to see to it that Sandusky was investigated? How did they let the guy hang around campus specifically since he was purportedly asked to resign in 1999 for a 1998 incident?

Twitter is trending largely against PSU/JoePa right now, this is going to get freaking ugly tomorrow. And it should.
Worst.
Scandal.
Ever.

Says a lot after the Miami stuff came out. This is a perfect for some university to get their dirty laundry out, I can't imagine anything would compare to this.

[leadpipe]

In Paterno's defense, the guy coulda very well slept thru the whole thing.

[dmiles]

Was he already that out of it in 2002? Hell it's been a long time, he might have been.

[danwismar]

of course LP is being facetious... JP couldn't have been so old or senile not to know what this was...and how unspeakably criminal it was

sorry, but reporting it to your AD is not enough. This was child rape, with at least one very credible eye-witness. Paterno knew about it, and if after several weeks...months...years?...and nothing was ever done about Sandusky, it was criminal for anyone who knew not to blow the whistle on him. How could they have given him locker room/facility access after what had been witnessed previously?

[danwismar]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/co ... story.html

Paterno says he didn't know details of what had been witnessed. I find that very difficult to believe.

[furls]

So here is the million dollar question....

Will this get the media play that Tatt-Gate got. We all know it will not. Will it get Dohrmann and his ilk rushing to Happy Valley to find out every last gorey detail and plunge into Joe Pa's rectum with the same vigor that they crawled into Tressel's? Of course not and therein lies the problem.

This is soooo much worse. It is like comparing a fart in church to a 9.4 earthquake in downtown San Fran. Where is the moral outrage now, when it is actually warranted? PSU has people in its AD getting indicted for perjury in relation to this thing. Yet it will not get the run of 19 year olds selling their own shit for tattoos.

We have the media we deserve. The American public is too stupid and lazy to think for itself, and these are the folks we have elected by virtue of ratings.

This story will blow over in 2 weeks, and will not even survive as a footnote in Joe Pa's career. I don't know about you, but if I knew a guy in my office was touching kids and I told our boss and nothing happened within a month, I would ask questions. If nothing still happened, I would go over his head. How many more kids were violated due to the inadequate actions of this staff? How many kids had their lives forever altered by this guy after people who should have acted didn't? FUCKING DISGUSTING!

[furls]

Here is some light reading for those that are not faint of heart. Very disturbing stuff. In reading the grand jury report it is clear how badly the system broke down. This guy was able to be a predator for a solid decade and a half after he was initially caught.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sp ... 52011.html

I am as big a JoePa fan as anyone, but man I really wish he would've gotten out ahead of this more. The guy should have been immediately suspended (with or without pay) pending resolution of criminal investigation following the first allegations in 1998.

[danwismar]

The sickest part of the whole thing to me is that he started this "program" way back in 1977 for "troubled youths". One can only conclude now that the whole thing was done to provide access for him to young boys that he could have an excuse to be around...and then befriend ...and then exploit...

Who even knows how many boys were abused over that time period. It's likely that more will come forward, but you could understand why many of them won't.

Someone said today that it's "sad" that this is happening to Paterno and Penn State. The only thing that's sad to me is that it took so long for this to result in a criminal prosecution.

[leadpipe]

Obviously this far exceeds what's going on in other places, BUT, it's to my point of the fact - there's shit going on EVERYWHERE.

EVERYWHERE.

Here another "storied" "squeaky clean" program where, at a ridiculous minumum, heads were turned the other way. Just as I mentioned before the shit (including a car) Cory Maggette was in possession of at God K's hallowed Duke.

All a matter of degree. Auburn, OSU, Duke, Penn State...hell I knew guys that played baseball at LAKELAND COMMUNITY COLLEGE that took a specific geography teacher because athletes were seated in such a way they might "accidentally" see test answer. The same Lakeland that had very few African Americans in the Fall or spring quarter, but had a, shall we say, basketball team ful in the Winter quarter.

This story is disturbing because of what happened to innocent kids, but am I suprised this kind of thing COULD happen

Not for a minute - and, you could argue that if you wanted to carry on some sort of nonsense that benefited from people turning their heads, a division one college with a big-time athletic program might be the preferred place.

And I know I come off to Dan as far too cynical in this regard, but I'm not makin' shit up. Like the GD wild west at these schools.

[furls]

It is a scummy, scummy BUSINESS.

[danwismar]

LP...a year ago I might have thought you were overly cynical, but a lot of water has gone under the bridge since then (and I'm not just talking about OSU). It was when we had a similar conversation last fall that I started looking into Auburn and Lowder.

I don't think I was naive or Pollyanna-ish then...just not as well informed, and more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt.

This PSU situation is another order of magnitude though....far worse than buying players with six-figure payoffs, let alone academic fraud or tats for memorabilia.

[Kingpin74]

Easily the most disturbing thing I've ever heard in sports. Doing that to kids is right on par with killing someone. For Paterno not to eventually call the police is inexcusable.

I know he technically fulfilled his minimum obligation by informing his superior but that's not enough in a situation like this. Very sad end to a great tenure but he needs to lose his job. This wasn't seconhand information or kinda sorta seeing something shady and guessing as to what it was. The GA claims he saw it directly in all its horrifying detail and told Paterno exactly what it was. The grand jury then found that to be "very credible" testimony. Sandusky still had full access to the program for several years after that!!!!! I'm just at a loss. I made fun of tatgate more than anyone but that is the smallest of small potatoes now.

[pup]

What kind of person witnesses that and:

1. Does not walk in there and stop it
2. Tells one person and when nothing is done about it and that monster is still in the program doesn't take it further themselves

[leadpipe]

What kind of person witnesses that and:

1. Does not walk in there and stop it
2. Tells one person and when nothing is done about it and that monster is still in the program doesn't take it further themselves

Yeah, not only turn your head, but allow the guy to conduct YOUTH programs.

It's like catching a casino employee stealing some cash, turning your head, and then positioning him in the count room.

Only a zillion times worse.

And you are correct about the level here Dan, but I've always qualified - all a matter of degree.

[Govbarney]

This in my opinion is even worse then the Baylor Bball scandal where the coach essentially helped covered up a murder.

What happened here obviously transcends the normal level of College scandal.
If my Brother or Best Friend came to me and said, "you need to help me bury a body" Id probably do it no questions asked, out of sheer loyalty , and Id know they would do the same for me. But if I discovered they did the shit this degenerate did, Id call the cops or kill them myself. Why because on some weird sick level I cant really explain this is even worse than a murder.

If the Penn State Athletic department is willing to cover this up , it begs to ask the question what else are they covering up.....

[peeker643]

How many little kids were victimized after the honorable old man and beacon of integrity knew what was going on?

That's all I want to know.

How fucking many were ruined after JoePa was aware of what Sandusky was/did?

If it was one,then Joe Pa deserves to burn in hell next to Sandusky.

[motherscratcher]

What kind of person witnesses that and:

1. Does not walk in there and stop it
2. Tells one person and when nothing is done about it and that monster is still in the program doesn't take it further themselves

After reading the grand jury report that Furls posted I kept asking myself this same thing. I don't want to judge the GA. Who can really know what they would do in the face of such a fucked up situation?

But I have trouble envisioning a scenario where I see that and dont run into the shower and snatch that kid away. Take him to the hospital or police or something, but get him the fuck out of there.

I bet that GA has asked himself the same thing every day for the last 10 years. "Why didn't I do something?" What a thing to live with.

This whole situation is just...

[Kingpin74]

What kind of person witnesses that and:

1. Does not walk in there and stop it
2. Tells one person and when nothing is done about it and that monster is still in the program doesn't take it further themselves

After reading the grand jury report that Furls posted I kept asking myself this same thing. I don't want to judge the GA. Who can really know what they would do in the face of such a fucked up situation?

But I have trouble envisioning a scenario where I see that and dont run into the shower and snatch that kid away. Take him to the hospital or police or something, but get him the fuck out of there.

I bet that GA has asked himself the same thing every day for the last 10 years. "Why didn't I do something?" What a thing to live with.

This whole situation is just...

I like to think I would have stopped it right away as well, but the horror of that incident goes beyond words and I can maybe understand the guy being in shock. At a minimum, however, he needed to call the police within a few minutes.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Will this get the media play that Tatt-Gate got. We all know it will not.

Not seeing it. We're literally in 'live boy / dead girl' territory. This is the sort of thing that made Chris Hansen a household name and took down Catholic cardinals. You just can't sweep it under the rug, no matter how hard the pro-Paterno media will try.

[FUDU]

Personally I think Jo Pa retired in 1995 and they've been using a body double ever since.

<----curiously awaits FMB's thoughts on this disturbing story.

[Ziner]

Solid read if anyone is interested

http://www.amazon.com/Touched-Jerry-San ... 1582613575

[JacksonDysonJackson]

A question I haven't seen asked:

Why did JoePa go to his AD if this man wasn't employed by the university in 2002?

[jb]

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/staff/jon-sandusky/ee6a28ba-7a98-4315-b520-bec29cac7d18

[danwismar]

JB....good to see you here, man. Don't be a stranger.

[Ziner]

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/staff/jon-sandusky/ee6a28ba-7a98-4315-b520-bec29cac7d18

HE'S ALIVE!!!!!

Hope you are staying warm down at Occupy Youngstown. Keep fightin' the fight.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/staff/jon-sandusky/ee6a28ba-7a98-4315-b520-bec29cac7d18

HE'S ALIVE!!!!!

Hope you are staying warm down at Occupy Youngstown. Keep fightin' the fight.

Fuck off.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Personally I think Jo Pa retired in 1995 and they've been using a body double ever since.

<----curiously awaits FMB's thoughts on this disturbing story.

First off, you alone here are aware of my disdain for Jopa

I felt he was out of line in the Rashad Casey scandal yrs ago as well as being an ego inflated coach who should have left the game a decade ago as they've become nearly as painfull to watch as the Browns

The only thing I admire about him is that he can still run at 84 yrs old... ie: the 409 wins means nothing to me

Suffice it to say, I've not read much of this because I really don't give much of a rats ass about sports anymore but, I'll certainly condone nothing of what I've read...

I'm the guy who goes into that room with a fucking bat then pleads 'temporary sanity' at my trial after I bludgeon that piece of shit to death and eat his fucking heart

I think i'm more impartial than some would believe but, being a fan, you're never taken at full value when you post a positive in a situation like this...

I've got some opinions as regards Paterno's amount of knowlege and responsibilities based on what he knew and when he knew it but, it would be board suicide to express them now without all the info or a desire to read it if it was thrust in front of my face....

Cay sera sera...whatever will be will be but, so far, the people most responsible seem to be getting whats coming to them. Whether or not that includes Paterno remains to be seen...IMHO

That does not however mean he shouldn't step down immediately just out of principle

...and be advised... I'm never interested in a prolonged back and forth to prove a point....I don't care enuff

I'd be putting Joe on a Death Watch list tho.... this just may kill him

[peeker643]

What kind of person witnesses that and:

1. Does not walk in there and stop it
2. Tells one person and when nothing is done about it and that monster is still in the program doesn't take it further themselves

After reading the grand jury report that Furls posted I kept asking myself this same thing. I don't want to judge the GA. Who can really know what they would do in the face of such a fucked up situation?

But I have trouble envisioning a scenario where I see that and dont run into the shower and snatch that kid away. Take him to the hospital or police or something, but get him the fuck out of there.

I bet that GA has asked himself the same thing every day for the last 10 years. "Why didn't I do something?" What a thing to live with.

This whole situation is just...

I like to think I would have stopped it right away as well, but the horror of that incident goes beyond words and I can maybe understand the guy being in shock. At a minimum, however, he needed to call the police within a few minutes.

The GA is Mike McQueary, the former PSU QB. Ironically (I think) he's also an assistant coach there now.

Hmm...

He did call his dad though. It was the old man who musta told him to put his gloves and boots on and march straight over to Mr. Paterno's house to tell him what he saw.

Fucking pathetic and sick. Seriously. Just disgusting the more that comes out.

[jb]

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2011/11/7/2545027/-jerry-sandusky-ray-gricar-prosecutor-1998-penn-state-missing

[FUDU]

This is just such a sickening story.

FMB, thx for the reply, I never expected you to try to protect old Coke Bottles.

[danwismar]

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2011/11/7/2545027/-jerry-sandusky-ray-gricar-prosecutor-1998-penn-state-missing

Wow...heard about this earlier today, but this is first info I've seen on it

...so it's quite possible it wasn't just kids whose lives were ruined by this sicko.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

This is just such a sickening story.

FMB, thx for the reply, I never expected you to try to protect old Coke Bottles.

Spent the past 4 days in TN and got back late last night

Saw some headlines this morning but was to busy catching up with work to pay much attention...

Suffice it to say, after reading a couple pieces, I'm just as disgusted as anyone could possibly be and no punishment could be too harsh for anyone invloved

People need to go to jail and some need to feel pain....real pain

As for Paterno himself, I think he's been clueless since '94 when he didn't run up the score every time he had the chance... if he comes out tomorrow and says he knew no details, I'd believe him, because he was a senile 75 yr old fool at the time who likely couldn't remember what flavor oatmeal he had for breakfast

[Fire Marshall Bill]

What kind of person witnesses that and:

1. Does not walk in there and stop it
2. Tells one person and when nothing is done about it and that monster is still in the program doesn't take it further themselves

After reading the grand jury report that Furls posted I kept asking myself this same thing. I don't want to judge the GA. Who can really know what they would do in the face of such a fucked up situation?

But I have trouble envisioning a scenario where I see that and dont run into the shower and snatch that kid away. Take him to the hospital or police or something, but get him the fuck out of there.

I bet that GA has asked himself the same thing every day for the last 10 years. "Why didn't I do something?" What a thing to live with.

This whole situation is just...

I like to think I would have stopped it right away as well, but the horror of that incident goes beyond words and I can maybe understand the guy being in shock. At a minimum, however, he needed to call the police within a few minutes.

The GA is Mike McQueary, the former PSU QB. Ironically (I think) he's also an assistant coach there now.

Hmm...

He did call his dad though. It was the old man who musta told him to put his gloves and boots on and march straight over to Mr. Paterno's house to tell him what he saw.

Fucking pathetic and sick. Seriously. Just disgusting the more that comes out.

FTR, stories were going around Vegas 40 yrs ago about Jerry Lewis' penchant for little boys...

It took till just this yr to get him canned form the Cerebal Palsy Telethon

The enablers need to die a slow painfull death as well as the perps

[Cerebral_DownTime]

I've never seen a story this sickening in sports. To allow a pederast to continue destroying kids' lives is beyond vile. They lef him near kids.... on goddamn school property..... FOR OVER A FUCKING DECADE AFTER THE FIRST ALLEGATIONS CAME OUT.

How is that fucking possible?

And to hear that fucking cunt Greenberg even try to make comparisons to Tatgate is so low and snake like, it makes the skin crawl.

I hope a giant sinkhole opens up and sucks that whole pigpen right down into the Earth.


So OT, but look a Peek branching out and becoming a book reviewer. Who saw that coming? I always figured most of what he reads has glossy pages and pictures with words below to explain the picture.

Good for you, add that to your already impressive resume of being a non objective bald turd Irish asshole prick with a Browns themed Captain America costume.

[FUDU]

Peeker tell CDT to go filth flarn filth himself.

[peeker643]

Peeker tell CDT to go filth flarn filth himself.

Did he say something? I have that asshole on 'ignore'. If you talk to him tell him I said he's a Shrek-like giant kraut douchebag that doesn't know pizza from snow tires.

And tell him to go fuck himself just for good measure.

Thank you.

[jb]

How is that fucking possible?

1. Misguided loyalty. This was a former player and St Jopa's buddy for a quarter century. He was a DC for over a decade, right? He drew up the 86 defense. As football fan whackos, we know exactly what that means. This Pedo was literally a made-man. This thing is obviously a sick cover up and damn the legal system for splitting so many hairs that so few will have real ramifications.

2. A corrupt bureucracy. See also, the ongoing cannonization efforts of JPII. Penn State completely doiminates the region. There's nothing else in the "T". For all the goody Inbred football smak, there is truth that PA is essentially rural WVA outside of the few urban areas. And Penn Sate is so unbelieveably dominant as presence it is bullet proof. We're going to find out how much. It gets to a point where personal accountability is a long-lost concept. A 28 year old Mike McQuery should have fallen upon Sandusky with the range of angels, not skulked away. Whatever bull crap life lessons JoPa ever tried to impart were clearly lost here. You really have to ask yourself "why"?

And then there's the Most Powerful Man at Penn State - don't kid yourself, he's sparred with the Pres there for years unscathed given his fundraising ability - conveniently doing a hand off to the AD whose job hung in whatever whimsical balance JoPa decided. He "reported" to his" superior" ? Please. On and on. The fact McQuery walked, no one went upside Pervs head, and the cops were not immediately called means they all need to go. Spencer, JoPa, all of them. Good thing we can count on some Pennsylvania legislators who will want to shamelessly grandstand on this one. Thank God we can count on pols to do what pols do for once. And at least ONE of the powerful BoT members has to see it as good men do without the blue blinders.

BTW - lastest development is that Perv was banned from bringing kids to the main Campus in 2002, but used Behrend up by FMB until 2008. Typical bureacratic crap.


3. The disbelief in devils. Not in a kookie sense, but the only devils are those who walk among us. He pulled off the nice guy facade. He wasn't some shakey Gacy that in retrospect everyone was like, "yeah, shoulda seen that one coming." This is so F'd up, no one would believe it coming from this pillar of society.

And these poor kids knew it.

[e0y2e3]

http://es.pn/vIoSJu

[peeker643]

http://es.pn/vIoSJu

That article is freaking fantastic and I agree with JB on all of his points.

Hmm... Lee & JB bringing information and perspective. How 2009 of them

[Spin]

PSU cancelled their weekly presser, and won't take part in the Big 10 conference call.

JoPa had better just retire today, before someone gets ahold of one of the (alleged) victims. He needs to get out now.

[FUDU]

That was funny peeker, you're a funny guy. You're like clown, you amuse me.

[Triple-S]

This is just bizarre as hell.

I didn't think it'd be possible to go and pratically destroy a program like PSU or JoePa's legacy literally over night.

Dude needs to get out, and right now.

If I were Penn State I'd seriously debate cancelling the season at this point.

[StewieG]

According to the NY Times, Penn St is planning Paterno's exit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sport ... ml?_r=2&hp

[Ziner]

If I were Penn State I'd seriously debate cancelling the season at this point.

Nice call, that will teach all those players who were having soap fights in the showers with children.

[Triple-S]

If I were Penn State I'd seriously debate cancelling the season at this point.

Nice call, that will teach all those players who were having soap fights in the showers with children.

I feel bad for the players, but how do you even play with this going on in the background?

Its not there fault obviously, but would you want to take the field under these circumstances?

[skatingtripods]

According to the NY Times, Penn St is planning Paterno's exit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sport ... ml?_r=2&hp

What's there to plan? The guy failed as a teacher, as a coach, and as a human being.

[peeker643]

NYT reporting Paterno is out and that no succession plans have been announced.

[FUDU]

of course LP is being facetious... JP couldn't have been so old or senile not to know what this was...and how unspeakably criminal it was

sorry, but reporting it to your AD is not enough. This was child rape, with at least one very credible eye-witness. Paterno knew about it, and if after several weeks...months...years?...and nothing was ever done about Sandusky, it was criminal for anyone who knew not to blow the whistle on him. How could they have given him locker room/facility access after what had been witnessed previously?

In regards to Paterno (or anyone outside of the victims and eye witnesses) and him going to say LE I think people are forgetting something: in situations like this unless you are A) the victim B) an eye witness to the despicable act or C) the parents of the victim...going to the police is as close to moot as it gets b/c the police are not obligated to act upon that type of report from somebody that is not an A B or C. It sounds kind of fucked up but that is how it works the vast vast majority of the time. Sure trying doesn't hurt, and you'd think most would, but contacting the parents is probably the best thing. However like JB already said misguided...errr fucked up loyalty and morals got in the way in this instance.

[HoodooMan]

If I were Penn State I'd seriously debate cancelling the season at this point.

I think something should be done that represents an appropriate level of shame for PSU. Short of canceling the football program altogether, I don't know what that is, though.

Firing Paterno yesterday--rather than allowing him to resign--would have been a good start. Publicly condemning his (alleged) behavior is called for as well. Anything less, IMO, is offensively tame.

[peeker643]

of course LP is being facetious... JP couldn't have been so old or senile not to know what this was...and how unspeakably criminal it was

sorry, but reporting it to your AD is not enough. This was child rape, with at least one very credible eye-witness. Paterno knew about it, and if after several weeks...months...years?...and nothing was ever done about Sandusky, it was criminal for anyone who knew not to blow the whistle on him. How could they have given him locker room/facility access after what had been witnessed previously?

In regards to Paterno (or anyone outside of the victims and eye witnesses) and him going to say LE I think people are forgetting something: in situations like this unless you are A) the victim B) an eye witness to the despicable act or C) the parents of the victim...going to the police is as close to moot as it gets b/c the police are not obligated to act upon that type of report from somebody that is not an A B or C. It sounds kind of fucked up but that is how it works the vast vast majority of the time. Sure trying doesn't hurt, and you'd think most would, but contacting the parents is probably the best thing. However like JB already said misguided...errr fucked up loyalty and morals got in the way in this instance.

McQueary walked in on that 4 years after police had investigated another incident. You go to the police when you witness a rape, dude. No question about it.

20 yr old girl with him in the shower and maybe (MAYBE)there's pause for cause. Who knows what's consensual and guess context is everything. 10 yr old boy being anally raped/penetrated by a 60yr old man? Are you fucking kidding me Donny?