Moderators: peeker643, swerb, Ziner
by FUDU » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:43 pm
by peeker643 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:39 pm
FUDU wrote:Interesting read. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8844646/World-power-swings-back-to-America.html#.TqWduMfVhnM.facebook
by Commodore Perry » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:20 pm
by Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:46 pm
American labor hasn't seen a pay raise in a decade
peeker643 wrote:I wish I shared the optimism of that article.
by Orenthal » Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:08 pm
by Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:16 pm
by Orenthal » Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:57 pm
by Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:03 pm
by Orenthal » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:36 am
by Ziner » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:00 pm
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:American labor hasn't seen a pay raise in a decadeYeah, great thing to cluck about.While the cost of living has skyrocketed, Americans wages stay flat.Awesome. peeker643 wrote:I wish I shared the optimism of that article.Yeah me too, but I don't because once the European banks go down (the current Sword of Damocles), ours will be begging for another bailout for their stupid derivative gambling in Greece, Italy, Spain, and Portugal.BUT THAT'S OK, IGNORE THE LOOMING DISASTER AND FOCUS ON OIL SHALE!@!#$!!!#$!@#!!@$!$!@# USA USA USA USA USA USA USA!!!!!!!!!
by Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:04 pm
by Ziner » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:30 pm
by Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:34 pm
by Ziner » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:50 pm
by Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:02 pm
by Ziner » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:13 pm
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Ok. I take back "skyrocketing", I'll replace it with "continue to rise".Energy prices..... I'm not real crazy about this whole oil speculation thing.
by Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:15 pm
by Orenthal » Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:27 pm
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I'm not saying shut it down, they can do it as long as it doesn't hurt the consumer and they aren't rigging the market.
by Sea Foam Green » Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:28 pm
Commodore Perry wrote:There is a lot more truth to that article then people want to acknowledge. The reason we've lost so many manufacturing jobs to china is because American wages were very high and Chinese wages were very low. It had nothing to do with Chinese competitiveness. They were using our own factories and our own technologies, just supplying cheap labor.Well thanks to the laws of supply and demand, Chinese labor is getting more and more expensive and American labor hasn't seen a pay raise in a decade. As the labor costs even out, believe me, you will see a mass rush back to America by manufacturers. None of them want a a long, expensive supply chain that extends to the other side of the world and has to deal with a communist government that steals intellectual property left and right. They're only putting up with it while the rewards outweigh the risks. That won't be true for long.
by Commodore Perry » Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:54 pm
Sea Foam Green wrote:I think this is over simplifying the issue quite a bit. The reason US companies are building so many factories/manufacturing jobs in China is because China has a BILLION people who are either not using the companies products or are using inferior versions of a company's products made by someone else. The cheap labor's a plus, but the driving force is the market available. The U.S. is saturated for nearly all goods. Companies have to look elsewhere for growth.
Additionally, a substantial contributing factor to the decrease in manufacturing jobs in the US, is an increase in line efficiency. New technologies flat out allow manufacturer's to make more product with less resources. You can blame this on the high labor costs if you want. But the point is, if the labor costs in China grow to high, Chinese laborers will be replaced by technologies, not Americans.
If companies just wanted cheap labor, they would go to Mexico.
by YahooFanChicago » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:42 am
by Sea Foam Green » Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:57 am
YahooFanChicago wrote:Don't kid yourself, in the vast majority of the cases these factories in China were put there for export purposes not for local market development.As big as China's population and GDP is their GDC (gross domestic consumption) is very low. Their total annual consumption of all goods and services in USD terms is about equal to Italy's annual consumption (staggering given the population difference).Also, many of these factories don't even have licenses to sell within China (they are licensed for export only). another interesting tidbit.. the factories get large tax credits on all of their export sales. For factories that also have domestic sales licenses they do not get any tax credit on sales within domestic China. They only get the tax credits on export sales.China's government is light years ahead of ours when it comes to economy/trade, they have done a great job in rigging the system to be in their favor. They have very effectively imported a ton of our jobs, production knowledge and tooling. They really have done too good of a job since they have essentialy destroyed the economies of their biggest customers (US, Europe, Japan).The Chinese govenrment knows that this has to be addressed and that they have to increase their domestic purchasing power and domestic consumption. That means higher wages and increasing the value of the Chinese Yuan. It has to be done slowly and it is a real balancing act otherwise it could result in massive global inflation. Very tough situation for everyone involved and I don't see it going nearly as quickly nor as smoothly as that article outlines.
by YahooFanChicago » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:32 pm
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