Occupy Berea

[hiko]

Poor sweet little Peeker killed too many brain cells in Vegas:

Daboll is in Miami, Chud is in Carolina.

My weekly fantasy fortunes depend on Miami putting up some numbers on the Jets tonight as my opponent has the Jets D. So I'm a bit pre-occupied with the Miami O.

Not a good spot to be in at all if you're me.

And note how I corrected myself since I KNEW someone would do so for me. I beat you to the punch. You're getting slow.

Thank god you clarified that. The only thing that could trump longing for Mangini would be longing for Daboll.

After that, only sonnets written about Derek Anderson would take the cake.

I don't really remember people hating on Chud the way they did on Arians/Daboll. Chud had a really good 2007 season, people were in love. 2008 was a bit of a disaster, but so was the QB position that year. The way I remember it, Chud was part of the Mangini housecleaning and most people were ambivalent enough about him at that point not to care, but there was not the Daboll-level disdain for Chud.

Hard to hate the guy when he provided the last competent offense we've seen from the Browns.

[GodHatesClevelandSport]

The Browns bought high on Shurmur, who ran this garbage offense last year with a better QB and the same caliber of receivers. The Rams' offense last year produced the same as the Browns' did. Now the Rams have collapsed, because you can't win with crappy players.

The Rams are looking like the Browns' future, and that ain't pretty. They're so desperate they traded for 30-year-old Brandon Lloyd or whatever his name is from Denver. He's a career stiff who lucked out last year.

The Rams tried to keep games close last year, dink-and-dunk their way to FGs, and ultimately finished under .500. Injuries have destroyed them this year, because they have no depth. Hey, just like the Browns!

[sonoranreptile]

It's like Deja Vu on these boards. Start out with a new coach, new QB, new offense, etc, etc.....and lo' and behold we have a losing record and everyone wants to fire the entire team and start over...lol.

See you back here in 365 days to copy/paste this entire thread into 2012.......

[Bigfist]

Does walrus pull the plug on shurmer within a year?

Has that happened before with a rook hc?

Les Steckel is the only one in recent history that comes to mind. One year as HC coach in Minnesota in the 80's...his first and last shot.

A couple, such as Groh and Saban, only coached one year, but were not fired...they resigned to go back to college.

[mattvan1]

Does walrus pull the plug on shurmer within a year?

Has that happened before with a rook hc?

Les Steckel is the only one in recent history that comes to mind. One year as HC coach in Minnesota in the 80's...his first and last shot.

A couple, such as Groh and Saban, only coached one year, but were not fired...they resigned to go back to college.

Terry Robiske and Jim Schofner are disappointed that you have forgotten their contribution(s). 'Course, they were cursed with the interim tag. That rarely worls out well.

[leadpipe]

It's like Deja Vu on these boards. Start out with a new coach, new QB, new offense, etc, etc.....and lo' and behold we have a losing record and everyone wants to fire the entire team and start over...lol.

See you back here in 365 days to copy/paste this entire thread into 2012.......

Who would you like to have kept?

Palmer, Crennell, Quinn......

Yeah, it was so wrong to bitch about guys that can barely stay in the league.

Perhaps the fault lies with an organization that can't find capable people and not message board posters.

Fact of the matter is, the guys who bitched about shit the last ten years have been correct.

Clearly.

Take your time coming back.

[pup]

It's like Deja Vu on these boards. Start out with a new coach, new QB, new offense, etc, etc.....and lo' and behold we have a losing record and everyone wants to fire the entire team and start over...lol.

See you back here in 365 days to copy/paste this entire thread into 2012.......

161 posts and you got the these things pegged. Congratulations.

I will have to mark my calendar to avoid TCF Boards on 10/17/12.

[bookelly]

It's like Deja Vu on these boards. Start out with a new coach, new QB, new offense, etc, etc.....and lo' and behold we have a losing record and everyone wants to fire the entire team and start over...lol.

See you back here in 365 days to copy/paste this entire thread into 2012.......

QED - 54 yard field goal and you let the other team run a pee-wee league fake? I hope to God it doesn't take 365 days to replace him. He should be fired for that stupidity alone. On the spot. Guys have been cut for less.

/BTW - I'm usually a guy on these boards who calls for calm. But this Shumer guy sucks balls. And everyone with a brain can see it.

//Did I mention the kick was 54 yards? 54 yards. 54. Seriously...54 yards. And they didn't even LOOK for a fake. Didn't even THINK about a fake.

///And this is the second time a team has us. Embarrassing.

[hiko]

Does walrus pull the plug on shurmer within a year?

Has that happened before with a rook hc?

Les Steckel is the only one in recent history that comes to mind. One year as HC coach in Minnesota in the 80's...his first and last shot.

A couple, such as Groh and Saban, only coached one year, but were not fired...they resigned to go back to college.

Joe Bugel - 1997 - Raiders (2nd head coaching gig)
Ray Rhodes - 1999 - Packers (2nd head coaching gig)
Art Shell - 2006 - Raiders (2nd time around)
Cam Cameron - 2007 - Dolphins (1 and done)

So Les and Cam are the only 2 I can find that had that happen (that weren't interim).

[mattvan1]

Does walrus pull the plug on shurmer within a year?

Has that happened before with a rook hc?

Les Steckel is the only one in recent history that comes to mind. One year as HC coach in Minnesota in the 80's...his first and last shot.

A couple, such as Groh and Saban, only coached one year, but were not fired...they resigned to go back to college.

Joe Bugel - 1997 - Raiders (2nd head coaching gig)
Ray Rhodes - 1999 - Packers (2nd head coaching gig)
Art Shell - 2006 - Raiders (2nd time around)
Cam Cameron - 2007 - Dolphins (1 and done)

So Les and Cam are the only 2 I can find that had that happen (that weren't interim).

Didn't Belichick coach the Jets for like 24 hours? Don't remember if he quit or resigned. Guess he must have resigned when the Pats gig was offered. Nevermind.

[Larvell Blanks]

My question is where is Holmgren in all of this?

A couple seasons ago the fans got all out of sorts b/c Jammies wouldn't speak. Instead he had a private meeting w/ those 2 idiots representing the fans. Wasn't the Walrus brought in for this type of moment? To be the mouthpiece of the franchise and reassure/talk off the ledge Browns fans. If not than he needs to b/c as Swerb put in a nother thread, Shurmur is barely treading water when speaking to the media.

[pup]

My question is where is Holmgren in all of this?

A couple seasons ago the fans got all out of sorts b/c Jammies wouldn't speak. Instead he had a private meeting w/ those 2 idiots representing the fans. Wasn't the Walrus brought in for this type of moment? To be the mouthpiece of the franchise and reassure/talk off the ledge Browns fans. If not than he needs to b/c as Swerb put in a nother thread, Shurmur is barely treading water when speaking to the media.

What is he to say?

We thought our WR were good enough.
We thought our QB was good enough.
We thought our HC was good enough.

Maybe I am not good enough?

Unless he walks into a presser and says "I am the Walrus, goo goo g'joob" and everyone laughs, the only other thing he could say would be I am taking over the HC responsibilities.

[hiko]

My question is where is Holmgren in all of this?

A couple seasons ago the fans got all out of sorts b/c Jammies wouldn't speak. Instead he had a private meeting w/ those 2 idiots representing the fans. Wasn't the Walrus brought in for this type of moment? To be the mouthpiece of the franchise and reassure/talk off the ledge Browns fans. If not than he needs to b/c as Swerb put in a nother thread, Shurmur is barely treading water when speaking to the media.

One can question a lot of Holmgren's moves, but I don't know if "calming the masses" should be in his job description.

If I were the President of some team, I wouldn't waste my time trying to talk dumbass fans off the ledge. Let's face it - fans in general are fucking retards. They're gonna jump whether you stroke their hair gently and tell them everything will be all right or not.

Winning is the only thing that matters, and as President I'd focus on getting that done. Then they'd shut the fuck up.

[GodHatesClevelandSport]

My favorites are all the excuses that pile up. Many are from media apologists:

* We had no OTAs (no one did)
* We have a new coach (so do San Fran and Tennessee)
* We have a new system (Andy Dalton had to learn a new system)
* We have a new defense (not all that hard to make a tackle, well at least in theory)

Here's what it comes down to ... not enough players.

San Fran is loaded with No. 1 picks. They finally get a competent coach, BOOM. They win.

Tennessee has a real QB with a stud RB. They are winning.

Cincy isn't whining about a rookie QB. They gave him a talented WR and are loaded on D.

It's players, players, players. Idiot Browns thinks it's system, system, system, genius coaching will turn it around. It's either that or they know their players stink and just won't say it (possible) and are trying to compensate with a system designed to keep the games from being blowouts. Hey, it's what Shurmur did in St. Louis last year. Take away that system and throw in some injuries and you get implosion.

[hiko]

My favorites are all the excuses that pile up. Many are from media apologists:

* We had no OTAs (no one did)
* We have a new coach (so do San Fran and Tennessee)
* We have a new system (Andy Dalton had to learn a new system)
* We have a new defense (not all that hard to make a tackle, well at least in theory)

To be fair, these are valid excuses... for the first couple weeks at least.

There's no doubt that the Browns were one of the teams hurt most by the lockout. I'd still be willing to buy into some of the excuses if the team were showing progress. Instead, we get regression. I think a lot of that falls on the coach.

[Triple-S]

I think the sad thing is people keep forgetting about how good the defensive line has looked.

Thats one area of improvement I've really liked over the course of these past couple weeks.

If only we had another corner, a couple backers, and a competent offense.

[HoodooMan]

If I were the President of some team, I wouldn't waste my time trying to talk dumbass fans off the ledge.

Especially when you'd be talking all the mouthbreathers off the ledge at 2-3.

Gotta save something for when we're 3-10ish.

[swerb]

If I were the President of some team, I wouldn't waste my time trying to talk dumbass fans off the ledge.

Especially when you'd be talking all the mouthbreathers off the ledge at 2-3.

Gotta save something for when we're 3-10ish.

Or at least just wait for the loss at home to the Seahawks this week.

I can't wait to see what happens after that.

[HoodooMan]

Probably something similar to what we've already seen after each of our three losses...just incrementally louder.

Losses against either (or both!) STL or JAX after a 2-6 start might really test the resolve of Fickle Randy PJs, though. I hope not, but I could see it. That'd probably be about the time Holmgren would want to do a "Hey everybody, calm the F down" press conference.

[Triple-S]

Coach and Quarterback.

I keep remembering that line from "False Start". Rooney telling Modell what it takes to be a winner in the NFL.

The Browns still have neither, until proven otherwise. I apologize, maybe I'm not seeing something, but Shurmer to me, doesn't have that edge that you have to have a head coach in the NFL. He doesn't seem to be a leader. And it's not as if you have to be this impassioned guy like Harbaugh or Ryan. Fuck, you can be a Dungy or Tressel-like quiet guy, but be. in. charge.

As for Colt, I just don't know yet. With his recievers not getting any sort of separation, it can be at times difficult to judge his skillset. It's on the regime really. But such is life.

[SoulDawg74]

Coach and Quarterback.

I keep remembering that line from "False Start". Rooney telling Modell what it takes to be a winner in the NFL.

The Browns still have neither, until proven otherwise. I apologize, maybe I'm not seeing something, but Shurmer to me, doesn't have that edge that you have to have a head coach in the NFL. He doesn't seem to be a leader. And it's not as if you have to be this impassioned guy like Harbaugh or Ryan. Fuck, you can be a Dungy or Tressel-like quiet guy, but be. in. charge.

As for Colt, I just don't know yet. With his recievers not getting any sort of separation, it can be at times difficult to judge his skillset. It's on the regime really. But such is life.

SD:

If you got tape look at the last 6 minutes of the Oakland game in garbage time with the Raiduhs playing soft .

and then zero in on that last series where Colt couldn't throw a catchable ball to Watson three yards in front of him in the Clutch , never mind we didn't take a shot to the end zone(surprise) down a score with no time left down in the game on or about the opponents 40 .

SoulDawg

[c11058]

In Sunday's PD, I read a quote from the Brown's receivers coach comparing Greg Little to both Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin when they were rookies in Arizona. Say What???

Talk about delusional!

However, if Lil' Cowboy Colt could get him the ball, we might see what this coach was talking about.

In an ideal world, a team gets little better, year by year. In the Bizarro world of C-town, it's been eleven years of frustration!

[SoulDawg74]

In Sunday's PD, I read a quote from the Brown's receivers coach comparing Greg Little to both Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin when they were rookies in Arizona. Say What???

Talk about delusional!

However, if Lil' Cowboy Colt could get him the ball, we might see what this coach was talking about.

In an ideal world, a team gets little better, year by year. In the Bizarro world of C-town, it's been eleven years of frustration!

SD:

You factor in Little hasn't played in a year after switching from running back to wide receiver , and the 1000% improvement going to him inlieu of even looking at Robiskie and you might not accuse that coach of being on crack ....just saying .

As a team , not withstanding the special team stoopid stuff, whats holding us back is the ability or lack thereof of our QB .

His play has been horrid.


SoulDawg

[Triple-S]

It kinda just pisses me off as well.

You see a team like Tampa just are able to stumble into becoming a contender because they find a good QB. And not just any good qb, one that instantly made them a playoff team and a contender in their division.

You look at Pitt and Baltimore and their success over the past decade, than you see the Browns as the permanent whipping boy for those teams. And they keep remaining at the top while the Browns keep getting bitchsmacked by 40 points.

Is that too much to ask of Colt to suddenly be this amazing QB at this point? I'm starting to not think so. I don't hate the guy, but for God's sake man, show me something, show me you can make plays and be a top 10 nfl QB.

And I'm tired of defending Pat Shurmer. Fucking A. He can't control a damn locker room, that's..like..the most important thing you have to do as a headcoach. And not only that his play calling sucks, and I see NO PASSION for the game from him. Dude's in over his head, how the fuck he became an offensive coordinator in the league is a mystery, let alone a HEAD COACH. I look at guys like Ryan, Schwartz, Tomlin and Harbaugh with envy. Get me some guys like that.

I don't mean to go Veruca Salt, but damnit, get me a WINNER. Tired of watching idiots like Pat Shurmer, Crennel trot out and not give a shit about the team. Tired of watching a team with no heart trot out there and get smacked around by scumbags, raptists and felons that make up Pittsburgh and Baltimore. I'm tired of watching an offense that makes me want to stab pencils into my eyes every sunday. Fix these things.

I'm going early for this, but unless he somehow finds a way to knock off Pittsburgh and Baltimore in the last weeks of the season, I'm done even remotely thinking that these two guys should be anywhere near the Browns next season. I normally would be willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, but I've seen this happen time and time again before and am tired of being led down this road again.

[mattvan1]

It kinda just pisses me off as well.

You see a team like Tampa just are able to stumble into becoming a contender because they find a good QB. And not just any good qb, one that instantly made them a playoff team and a contender in their division.

You look at Pitt and Baltimore and their success over the past decade, than you see the Browns as the permanent whipping boy for those teams. And they keep remaining at the top while the Browns keep getting bitchsmacked by 40 points.

Is that too much to ask of Colt to suddenly be this amazing QB at this point? I'm starting to not think so. I don't hate the guy, but for God's sake man, show me something, show me you can make plays and be a top 10 nfl QB.

And I'm tired of defending Pat Shurmer. Fucking A. He can't control a damn locker room, that's..like..the most important thing you have to do as a headcoach. And not only that his play calling sucks, and I see NO PASSION for the game from him. Dude's in over his head, how the fuck he became an offensive coordinator in the league is a mystery, let alone a HEAD COACH. I look at guys like Ryan, Schwartz, Tomlin and Harbaugh with envy. Get me some guys like that.

I don't mean to go Veruca Salt, but damnit, get me a WINNER. Tired of watching idiots like Pat Shurmer, Crennel trot out and not give a shit about the team. Tired of watching a team with no heart trot out there and get smacked around by scumbags, raptists and felons that make up Pittsburgh and Baltimore. I'm tired of watching an offense that makes me want to stab pencils into my eyes every sunday. Fix these things.

I'm going early for this, but unless he somehow finds a way to knock off Pittsburgh and Baltimore in the last weeks of the season, I'm done even remotely thinking that these two guys should be anywhere near the Browns next season. I normally would be willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, but I've seen this happen time and time again before and am tired of being led down this road again.

Just to rub salt in a bit, let's not forget how the 2009 draft went down. We trade out of the #5 overall (SouldDawg silently weeps) and the Jets select Sanchez. Then, the ManKok Steamroller continues, trading out of the #17 slot acquired from the Jets and swapping with the Bucs who select Josh Freeman. Not stopping there, ManKok goes on to trade yet again, this time with Philly, who draft Jeremy Maclin

It breaks doen like this - the Browns net David Veikune, Kenyon Coleman, Brett Ratliff, Abram Elam, James Davis and Alex Mack.

Eagles net Jeremy Maclin

Bucs net Josh Freeman

So when peeps wonder why we still suck, the 2009 draft has mucho impact.

[Triple-S]

I dig Mack, but looking back that pick was a mistake. I mean, at least he turned out to be a pro-bowler, but he's not really an impact guy.

More pissed at the fact the Browns didn't pool both their 2nd rounders and moved up to get Clay II. Son of a bitch. You imagine that defense right now with him making plays?

Heckert at least knows what he's doing when it comes to the draft. He may not know how to hire a Head Coach, but at least he knows what to do in late April.

BTW, I'd have much rather have had Josh Freeman than Sanchez looking back on it.

[Cleveland Matt]

Alex Mack is a solid player, I have always been ok with the selection of Mack. It is the way we got him that has always made me just go insane. You can't trade the 5th overall pick and only get that years first and second round pick and a bunch of shit bench players. Eecpecially when you know that team is getting what they think is their franchise QB.

Then trade down in the first round two more times to only get a couple of 6th round picks. Hell when the Pats trade their first round pick which is in the bottom half of the league they get a teams next years first round pick. We trade our first round pick up in the teens and only get 6th round picks.

Lesean McCoy was draft 17 spots after Robiskie in the 2nd round. Can anyone tell me who our RB was going into that draft. Mo Mass was drafted 3 spots in front of McCoy also. So we passed him up 2 different times in the same round.

The Packers were bad enough that year to pick 9th overall only 4 spots behind the Browns. In one draft they got two pieces that impacted them a great deal to win that superbowl last year. BJ Raji and Clay Matthews. I have always said this 2009 draft will set the Browns back 5 years.

This team since coming back in 1999 not counting this past year has what maybe 5 players that they have drafted since then. Players who should be the cornerstone of our franchise with all those high picks are nowhere to be found on this team. Brown, Warren, Faine, Green, Winslow, Edwards, and Wimbley. It is just pathetic.

[hiko]

Can anyone tell me who our RB was going into that draft. Mo Mass was drafted 3 spots in front of McCoy also. So we passed him up 2 different times in the same round.

The ghost of Jamal Lewis.

And that draft was indeed a franchise killer. They came into it with #5 overall, two #2's, and a boatload of other 3-4 picks and left with Alex Mack and maybe Mo Mass. Not even 3 years passed before that draft became epic fail.

You may not like Heckert, but my eyes weep blood every time I wonder what might've happened had he been here for the 2009 draft.

[Funky Cold Luis Medina]

[Commodore Perry]

It's like Deja Vu on these boards. Start out with a new coach, new QB, new offense, etc, etc.....and lo' and behold we have a losing record and everyone wants to fire the entire team and start over...lol.

See you back here in 365 days to copy/paste this entire thread into 2012.......

That is exactly what is so exhausting about the browns. We've all watched this tragedy over and over. There is no longer any hope of salvation in a new coach/qb.

People are walking away from the Browns in droves. I took the family to cedar point a few sundays ago. There were dads wearing browns shirts everywhere. Didn't see a single Lions or Bengals jersey and only one Steelers jersey, on a fat, sick mess of a man. Frankly, I had way more fun there then I would have had watching the browns on tv.

[LakeErieWarriors]

It is truly amazing that about 12 years into this 'new franchise' that the Browns haven't shown any semblance to a successful franchise. Even when they made the playoffs, it wasn't too pretty. From my POV, the potential is there; it has been many times. Last year: wins against the Pats, Saints, and almost against the Jets, but the end result of the season: EPIC FAIL. This year, worst 3-3 team ever. Haven't played close to potential once this year, and if that holds true this Sunday, the 9ers will obliterate the Browns (can't believe the line's at 9). Coming into the season after they waaay-shortened offseason, I had high hopes. Little did I know It would take Colt 61 pass attempts to reach 300+ yards, Hardesty 35-40 att. to get to 100 (2.8 YPC last week), and a stroke of luck to watch Peyton Hillis play. While the defense shines, they offense sputters. Just like anywhere else, the shit rolls downhill in Cleveland.

[Triple-S]

The fanbase is definitely still there, just a bit more...docile?

People may hate the way the team plays, but they want them to be relevant again. We're waiting for that magical season to come, People are wanting to get behind this team, but it's definitely a one-sided affair at this point.

I know I've railed on about all the steeler fans being the only one visible, but I'm not seeing that anymore. I'm seeing more and more people wearing orange and brown in some way shape or form, this is a very good thing. It's time for the team though to put up their side of the deal.

[hiko]

Coming into the season after they waaay-shortened offseason, I had high hopes.

Why?

Or are you saying you were high when you had these hopes?

New coach, unproven QB, super-young team, new offensive system that is completely different than what they had, a waaay-shortened offseason to learn it... what about that gave you high hopes?

I will readily admit that the Offense should certainly look more competent by this point than it does. Still, I pretty much expected them to suck.

[LakeErieWarriors]

Hillis after his season + some solid tight ends + new addition Greg Little + Colt with a year of experience (a little of watching from the sidelines + a little playing time) + a head coach that did what he did with what he had last year with the Rams.... and the fact that I'm always an optimist when looking into the future with the Browns. Thats why I was looking forward to this season. Unfortunately the team has been incredibly flat all season.... and I'm not surprised... it has become the norm.

[mattvan1]

Coming into the season after they waaay-shortened offseason, I had high hopes.

Why?

Or are you saying you were high when you had these hopes?

New coach, unproven QB, super-young team, new offensive system that is completely different than what they had, a waaay-shortened offseason to learn it... what about that gave you high hopes?

I will readily admit that the Offense should certainly look more competent by this point than it does. Still, I pretty much expected them to suck.

As did I, but there was always a small glimmer of hope, however faint, after the first 2 games of X-Season. Kicking myself for actually having the enormous lack of foresight to believe they might, just might be competitive by watching the first 2 games of X-Season. Vanilla D's playing Cover 2 and rarely blitzing, where Colt looked like a damn surgeon and had QB ratings over 100. The halcyon days of Browns football. We'll always have the Green Bay game. <sniff>

[smalls1129]

Can anyone tell me who our RB was going into that draft. Mo Mass was drafted 3 spots in front of McCoy also. So we passed him up 2 different times in the same round.

The ghost of Jamal Lewis.

And that draft was indeed a franchise killer. They came into it with #5 overall, two #2's, and a boatload of other 3-4 picks and left with Alex Mack and maybe Mo Mass. Not even 3 years passed before that draft became epic fail.

You may not like Heckert, but my eyes weep blood every time I wonder what might've happened had he been here for the 2009 draft.

Just a small point, I believe we only had 4 total picks heading into that draft. The rest came from the debacles within the draft.

[Govbarney]

My best friend who is the most reliable person I know, is in the labor union and is currently on the Job building Lerner's Sons new house in Cleveland. Every once in a while Lerner shows up to the job site. This morning he was there, and my buddy says he was wearing sweat pants, woman's ugg boots, and spent the first 10 min. in the sites port-a-john taking a shit.

He also had the entire work crew in the Owner’s box for the Cincy game, and the next day he was throwing around F-bombs like a drunken sailor talking about the punter.

While he may not be the most knowledgeable American football mind in the world, my buddy says he wears his emotions on his sleeve, and that the Browns losses really bother him.

[hiko]

Can anyone tell me who our RB was going into that draft. Mo Mass was drafted 3 spots in front of McCoy also. So we passed him up 2 different times in the same round.

The ghost of Jamal Lewis.

And that draft was indeed a franchise killer. They came into it with #5 overall, two #2's, and a boatload of other 3-4 picks and left with Alex Mack and maybe Mo Mass. Not even 3 years passed before that draft became epic fail.

You may not like Heckert, but my eyes weep blood every time I wonder what might've happened had he been here for the 2009 draft.

Just a small point, I believe we only had 4 total picks heading into that draft. The rest came from the debacles within the draft.

Your memory is better than mine. They had 5 going in - their 1st (eventually Mack), their 2nd (Robiskie), TB's 2nd for the Winslow trade (Massaquoi), their 4th (Kaluka Maiava), and their 6th (Don Carey). They picked up an extra 2nd (Veikune) for trading down with the Jets, an extra 6th (Coye Francies) for trading down with Tampa, and an extra 6th (James Davis) for trading down with Philly.

To go back in time and re-draft that knowing what we know now:

1st - Josh Freeman (QB) (trade down with Jets) or Clay Matthews (LB) (trade down with Jets, Bucs, and Eagles)

2nd - Jairus Byrd (S)

2nd - LeSean McCoy (RB)

2nd - Phil Loadholt (RT) (there goes the RT issue)

4th - Mike Thomas (WR)

6th - Jarius Wynn (DE)

6th - Matt Slauson (G) (if they had traded down with Tampa)

6th - Jason McCourty (CB) (if they had traded down with Philly)

[swerb]

Jesus. I didn't need to see that Hiko. :-)

[sonoranreptile]

It's like Deja Vu on these boards. Start out with a new coach, new QB, new offense, etc, etc.....and lo' and behold we have a losing record and everyone wants to fire the entire team and start over...lol.

See you back here in 365 days to copy/paste this entire thread into 2012.......

161 posts and you got the these things pegged. Congratulations.

I will have to mark my calendar to avoid TCF Boards on 10/17/12.

10000+ posts and you're not head coach yet??? Or working in the front office?? That's just a waste of talent.....

[Cerebral_DownTime]

It's like Deja Vu on these boards. Start out with a new coach, new QB, new offense, etc, etc.....and lo' and behold we have a losing record and everyone wants to fire the entire team and start over...lol.

See you back here in 365 days to copy/paste this entire thread into 2012.......

161 posts and you got the these things pegged. Congratulations.

I will have to mark my calendar to avoid TCF Boards on 10/17/12.

10000+ posts and you're not head coach yet??? Or working in the front office?? That's just a waste of talent.....

Weak sauce.

Don't blame Pup because your takes are shit. There's a reason why you're getting smacked around.

[Ziner]

mmmmmm.... weak sauce

[hiko]

mmmmmm.... weak sauce

I don't mind weak sauce as long as it's really hot.

[pup]

It's like Deja Vu on these boards. Start out with a new coach, new QB, new offense, etc, etc.....and lo' and behold we have a losing record and everyone wants to fire the entire team and start over...lol.

See you back here in 365 days to copy/paste this entire thread into 2012.......

161 posts and you got the these things pegged. Congratulations.

I will have to mark my calendar to avoid TCF Boards on 10/17/12.

10000+ posts and you're not head coach yet??? Or working in the front office?? That's just a waste of talent.....

Don't make promises you cannot keep. You just deprived the entire board on the next 357 days of anticipation.

Only getting internet time once per week, I would think you could have come up with something better than "10000+ posts and you're not head coach yet??? Or working in the front office?? That's just a waste of talent.....". Might want to go back to General Population and see if some of the boys can help your skills a bit.

[Believeland]

My best friend who is the most reliable person I know, is in the labor union and is currently on the Job building Lerner's Sons new house in Cleveland. Every once in a while Lerner shows up to the job site. This morning he was there, and my buddy says he was wearing sweat pants, woman's ugg boots, and spent the first 10 min. in the sites port-a-john taking a shit.

He also had the entire work crew in the Owner’s box for the Cincy game, and the next day he was throwing around F-bombs like a drunken sailor talking about the punter.

While he may not be the most knowledgeable American football mind in the world, my buddy says he wears his emotions on his sleeve, and that the Browns losses really bother him.

Wait, are you trying to give the guy some props....even now knowing he wears women's ugg boots? I guess that really shouldn't come as a surprise though.

[SoulDawg74]

It's like Deja Vu on these boards. Start out with a new coach, new QB, new offense, etc, etc.....and lo' and behold we have a losing record and everyone wants to fire the entire team and start over...lol.

See you back here in 365 days to copy/paste this entire thread into 2012.......

161 posts and you got the these things pegged. Congratulations.

I will have to mark my calendar to avoid TCF Boards on 10/17/12.

10000+ posts and you're not head coach yet??? Or working in the front office?? That's just a waste of talent.....

Don't make promises you cannot keep. You just deprived the entire board on the next 357 days of anticipation.

Only getting internet time once per week, I would think you could have come up with something better than "10000+ posts and you're not head coach yet??? Or working in the front office?? That's just a waste of talent.....". Might want to go back to General Population and see if some of the boys can help your skills a bit.

SD:




You have to take it easy on your fans pup .....

Try sweet talking him like I do with Mutha and CDT and Ziner and FMB ....

They luv it.


SoulDawg

[LakeErieWarriors]

Any clandestine knowledge out there or thoughts about whether or not #40 will play Sunday?

[Cleveland Matt]

#40 has been ruled out from what I have read and heard so far, He has not practiced all week. I think the Browns and Hillis are at a standoff right now. I think he would have played last season with this injury and just does not have the same passion and drive he did last year with all the fame he has received. This is just my option and the way the Browns and Shurmur have handled the issue has not helped at all. They both are to blame.

You have to look tho at what Matt Forte is doing with the Bears, he wanted more money from the Bears then the offer he received at some point this season. So what is he doing shuting his mouth and going out there and proving to the Bears and all the other NFl teams that he is worth the money he is asking for.

Does anyone think right now Hillis is worth the money he is asking for whatever it is sitting out and having his agent grandstanding for him. Hillis had 1 good year last season maybe he should try to do it again before thinking he should get payed like the top 10 RB in the NFL.

[Ziner]

Do you know what he is asking for? I have not seen numbers.

[hiko]

#40 has been ruled out from what I have read and heard so far, He has not practiced all week. I think the Browns and Hillis are at a standoff right now. I think he would have played last season with this injury and just does not have the same passion and drive he did last year with all the fame he has received. This is just my option and the way the Browns and Shurmur have handled the issue has not helped at all. They both are to blame.

You have to look tho at what Matt Forte is doing with the Bears, he wanted more money from the Bears then the offer he received at some point this season. So what is he doing shuting his mouth and going out there and proving to the Bears and all the other NFl teams that he is worth the money he is asking for.

I can buy that the Browns and Shurmur have handled this issue badly, but I'm not sure any niceties could have prevented possible pre-emptive shutdown (Miami game) or hemorrhaging hamstring hurties (Oakland, Seattle, and this week). This has now passed from being about Hillis v. Browns to Hillis v. Entire Fantasy Football Playing Nation.

You want to see your Approval Rating drop from 75% to 13% in a month? Fuck with fans when you have only 10-ish good games collateral.