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Occupy Berea

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Occupy Berea

Unread postby swerb » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:11 pm

It may be too soon, and clearly the team doesn't have the talent to compete, but every gut instinct I have in me says that SHUR MUR is in way, way, way over his head. I'm talking Luke Fickell levels of being in over his head. And sadly, these gut feelings are usually right.

It's just amazing how bad we still blow, especially given the progress made during the Mangini Era. Not necessarily progress in the talent acquisition side of things, but just in terms of putting a professional team out there that wouldn't beat themselves. I still cannot believe Brad Seely wasn't retained and given a little more cash and a pseudo-title. Just so embarrassing to get depantsed so bad on a fake FG ... especially on 4th and short with a 50+ yard attempt coming.

And this bull shit of throwing 70 passes a game to gain 200 yards is infuriating.

Our coach is not qualified to be a head coach. And our quarterback is a Mickey Mouse dink and dunker that would need Dilfer-esque levels of support to win a sausage. And we're gonna miss out on Andrew Luck.

It is really, really, really hard to be a Browns fan.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:18 pm

I need a day to see if I can develop any perspective. I just don't know if I'm gonna find it. Right now I'm lock step with you but I'm way more bearish on McCoy than at any other time.

Never questioned the accuracy and smarts but both have to be questioned now.

Shurmur has been abysmal and he continues to let the Hillis issue be a HUGE distraction.

That needs to end now.

I'm to the point where I'd just almost prefer not to watch and just look back in 3 months and see if anyone developed.

This season is a waste of time and money following this team. And there's just no payback to it.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby Triple-S » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:29 pm

Does walrus pull the plug on shurmer within a year?

Has that happened before with a rook hc?
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:29 pm

Is Hillis a bitch?
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby General » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:31 pm

Does LA still want a team?
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:32 pm

Does Holmgren even know his legacy is riding on this? Does he even care?
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby General » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:33 pm

I maintain the bye week is still my favorite week.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:33 pm

Wow that has to set the consecutive questions asked in thread mark, no?
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby FUDU » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:35 pm

I've thought the same thing Rich. Hard to really say for sure but lots of signs. We have some talented players on this team, albeit not a lot, and some of which might just be average to slightly better than at the EOD. Yet we still lack the ability to be consistently competitive each week, let alone control a game win with little question.

We've installed this pass oriented offense, yet we do not feature 2 of the 3 best pass catchers we have in that regard, Hillis & Moore. They both seem to disappear from the field despite a couple in week references to getting them more involved. Yet we keep throwing the ball to a guy who obviously has trouble catching the ball, Hardesty.

As always play calling can be second guessed, but still there's a lot of plays to second guess with this guy, and a lot of questioning on personnel usage that leaves you thinking WTF. Usually your better players are on the field the most, and you'd think used in the best way possible.

I just wonder if we are really any further along than we were 2-3 years ago with a different regime and differing style of coaching, that did show as many signs of progress as this franchise has seen since the return. Are there some of the same issues in the overall focus in our FO as there have been in the past? Are we being subtle in manipulating where we end at the end of the season, for the justification of the next drafts needs?

I find it hard to believe we lack so much talent, still, in so many areas on offense that everybody looks like crap on a regular basis. The procedure penalties and the embarrassing school yard plays ran to perfection against us this year are some pretty damning pieces of evidence Shurmur just isn't the guy.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby municipalmutt » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:38 pm

Thirteen seasons into the expansion era and the only position we have consistently been at an NFL level is place kicker. Think about that for a second.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby swerb » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:40 pm

The Evan Moore shit - I forgot to even mention that. I could give two shits if the guy can block. Split him out and call him a WR if it bothers Shurmur that much. It's inexplicable how little he plays and how little he sees passes given the rest of this team's recievers.

And the Hillis thing, regardless of whether or not he's hurt ... could not have been handled worse.

No effing way Walrus whacks this idiot after one year though. Way too proud.

Browns need to continue to cut bait on the coach and QB till they get it right. Need studs in both spots to win it all. No sense wasting time when you know you got chumps that can't get you over the top. Which ironically, was pretty much Walrus's thought process on Mangenius. But Mangenius wasn't his pick.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:41 pm

municipalmutt wrote:Thirteen seasons into the expansion era and the only position we have consistently been at an NFL level is place kicker. Think about that for a second.


Hell yeah, Awesome Phil from Dawsonville.

He's an icon.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby municipalmutt » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:45 pm

You might be able to make an argument for long snapper.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby Triple-S » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:02 pm

Is it bad that I've liked the job vanilla dick jauron has done as defensive coordinator?

not saying I like him as a Head Coach, quite the opposite, keep him away at all costs, but if there's any moves made, I'd like to possibly see him remain on at that spot.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby swerb » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:05 pm

Jauron has worked for 7 different teams in the last 11 years.

Difference making coaches don't move around like that. Or even half as much.

F him too. I woulda kept Rob Ryan and the 3-4.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby DrPoove » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:28 pm

Sadly my internal alarms are going off already as well.

I am not defending Mangini here, but at least he did something to utilize what little talent he had, as Rich and others have stated.

Could Delhomme, Wallace or McCoy throw an accurate pass? No, but at least he used Hillis, Cribbs, Moore, etc. so they at least had a shot in a lot of these games. In 4 of the 5 games (minus the last Miami drive) was there ever any feeling that the Browns were "in" the game.

Run Hillis 25 times cause that all we got. Yup. Run Cribbs in the wildcat. Yup. Put Moore in the slot. Yup.

Throw in the poor discipline and special teams play and it is a joke. Completely falls on the HC. So does this Hillis debacle. It would have taken one sentence of, "Hillis was sick, unable to play, end of story," to flush the toilet on this shit show but this thing has lingered for 3 weeks. Doesn't help when the back-up RB is runing for 3 YPC and dropping passes at a Robert Royal-esque rate.

Took 4 games to get Robiskie off the field. I agree they need Alex Smith at times but that in no way prohibits the use of Moore in the slot. Al the talk of using Hillis and Hardesty together has not born any fruit. It's bad we have only 8 plays of 20+ total on the season, but how many of those were on balls that were actually THROWN 20 yards down field?

This is NOT the WCO. I'd be happy if they ran the actual WCO. This is crap.

Team does take it's cues and identity from the HC and Strep-Gate, Fake FG TDs and pussyfooting on offense is not going to work in 2011.

McCoy also looks to be what he is, a roll of the dice 3rd round pick. No signs of improvement and deteriorating play overall. After 13 NFL games, albeit 5 in the current "system" (I just threw up in my mouth typing that), I would like to see some sort of barometer that even though he is off he's got the instincts or guile or something that will lead me to believe he will be a good NFL QB. Not so much. Maybe he'll "get it" in the last 11 games this year, but right now I do not see that happening.

I know in the other thread there is no way that whomever lands the #1 pick will trade it, but you HAVE to offer both #1 in 2012 and #1 in 2013 (at a minimum) for the #1 overall pick. Even if you know they won't trade it you HAVE to offer it.

This is a QB driven league with ever significant rule change giving an advantage to the offense. No QB equals no winning. Use the other rounds of the draft to fill the other talent holes. QB first.

Also, this talk of winning sausages is disturbing. Very, very disturbing.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:35 pm

*ahem*

I've watched him all of twice now, but RG3 is going to end up a top ten QB and is in the Cam mold in terms of pure physical freakiness. Different skills than Cam, but just that toolsy.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:40 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:*ahem*

I've watched him all of twice now, but RG3 is going to end up a top ten QB and is in the Cam mold in terms of pure physical freakiness. Different skills than Cam, but just that toolsy.


I thought he was a Jr? If so, will he derclare?

FTR, I started pimping him first (about 3 weeks ago) so fuck off ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:43 pm

I mean the fact that I've gotten two Baylor games in Boston is mind blowing, so props to you for living in the crest of hell.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:44 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:*ahem*

I've watched him all of twice now, but RG3 is going to end up a top ten QB and is in the Cam mold in terms of pure physical freakiness. Different skills than Cam, but just that toolsy.


I thought he was a Jr? If so, will he derclare?

FTR, I started pimping him first (about 3 weeks ago) so fuck off ;-) ;) :wink:



Thought he was actually a redshirt sophomore. jta1975 brought him up a month or so ago as the second choice behind Luck when we were talking. I'd never heard of the dude but I'm not a draft guy at all.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:46 pm

DrPoove wrote:Sadly my internal alarms are going off already as well.

I am not defending Mangini here, but at least he did something to utilize what little talent he had, as Rich and others have stated.

Could Delhomme, Wallace or McCoy throw an accurate pass? No, but at least he used Hillis, Cribbs, Moore, etc. so they at least had a shot in a lot of these games. In 4 of the 5 games (minus the last Miami drive) was there ever any feeling that the Browns were "in" the game.

Run Hillis 25 times cause that all we got. Yup. Run Cribbs in the wildcat. Yup. Put Moore in the slot. Yup.

Throw in the poor discipline and special teams play and it is a joke. Completely falls on the HC. So does this Hillis debacle. It would have taken one sentence of, "Hillis was sick, unable to play, end of story," to flush the toilet on this shit show but this thing has lingered for 3 weeks. Doesn't help when the back-up RB is runing for 3 YPC and dropping passes at a Robert Royal-esque rate.

Took 4 games to get Robiskie off the field. I agree they need Alex Smith at times but that in no way prohibits the use of Moore in the slot. Al the talk of using Hillis and Hardesty together has not born any fruit. It's bad we have only 8 plays of 20+ total on the season, but how many of those were on balls that were actually THROWN 20 yards down field?

This is NOT the WCO. I'd be happy if they ran the actual WCO. This is crap.

Team does take it's cues and identity from the HC and Strep-Gate, Fake FG TDs and pussyfooting on offense is not going to work in 2011.

McCoy also looks to be what he is, a roll of the dice 3rd round pick. No signs of improvement and deteriorating play overall. After 13 NFL games, albeit 5 in the current "system" (I just threw up in my mouth typing that), I would like to see some sort of barometer that even though he is off he's got the instincts or guile or something that will lead me to believe he will be a good NFL QB. Not so much. Maybe he'll "get it" in the last 11 games this year, but right now I do not see that happening.

I know in the other thread there is no way that whomever lands the #1 pick will trade it, but you HAVE to offer both #1 in 2012 and #1 in 2013 (at a minimum) for the #1 overall pick. Even if you know they won't trade it you HAVE to offer it.

This is a QB driven league with ever significant rule change giving an advantage to the offense. No QB equals no winning. Use the other rounds of the draft to fill the other talent holes. QB first.

Also, this talk of winning sausages is disturbing. Very, very disturbing.


STOP BEING SO NEGATIVE!!!!!

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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:46 pm

I'm not either Peeks. I found him by watching that insane Baylor - TCU Friday opener, he immediately became must watch. Not even from a draft perspective, but from a athlete prospective. And that Baylor team redefines shootout.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:54 pm

RGIII is a Junior, according to GBN.

As are the other "big names" - Luck, Barkley, Jones.

FTR, Joe Bauserman is a Senior :hide:
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:01 pm

RGIII can go fuck himself.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby mistero » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:46 pm

I'm wit y'all. Shurmur and friends are really,really over their heads. McCoy is the leagues best back up.

Mangini would have us 4-1 right now, like it or not.

The future is super bleak unless there is another QB or 3 in the 2012 draft besides Luck.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby hiko » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:33 pm

Dear lord, you fuckin' people have to fuckin' stop it with fuckin' Mangini.

"The progress made during the Mangini era"? What, from 5-11 to 5-11?

I don't care how much Shurmur sucks, MANGINI WAS NEVER GONNA BE THE ANSWER. Not here. Not anywhere. He plays an antiquated style that only works in shitty weather. He won't touch anyone that isn't a goody-goody. He plays favorites and makes inexplicable personnel choices.

I wish someone would go and shoot him in the fuckin' head so I could stop hearing the fuckin' moaning about a guy that so fuckin' doesn't deserve it, but then we'd probably be inundated with dudes endorsing a fuckin' 10-22 Mangini statue outside the fuckin' stadium.

Fuck.

You don't like Shurmur, you want him gone, fine. But pine after a fuckin' coach that has at least a fuckin' 3% chance of making it to the fuckin' Superbowl, not that hump.

And that's all I got to say about that.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby Triple-S » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:46 pm

Coach Sam sums it up for me.

You've got wide-receivers who can't get separation, playing in a passing league on a passing oriented team, you ain't winning games.

I actually wish for the '02 recieving corp. at this point, and I'm being dead serious. KJ, Dennis Northcutt, Quincy Morgan and Andre Davis have more talent than Robiskie, MoMass and Little.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:09 am

Shurmer's gonna fit right in with the all the other Browns Head Men - in the sense that he, like them, will never even be an afterthought in regard to a head coaching position ever again.

Swerb mentioned a few weeks back talking to some Rams fans who couldn't believe he got a head gig, well, there's an awful lot of NFL guys that were scratching their heads as well.

He's this regimes Rich Kokinis for crying out, and we're on the precipice of big problems in that locker room.

Comes down to this for me - they ain't got the coach, and they ain't got the QB. Nothing else really matters all that much. Let me know when this happens, cause until it does, Waste. Of. Time.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby bookelly » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:37 am

I hope he get it soon, I really do. But Shitmer is in WAAAAAY over his head.

/this whole thing is a set up for Walrus to ride to the rescue. We tank this year and early next...Shitmer is fired, and Walrus takes over.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:55 am

municipalmutt wrote:You might be able to make an argument for long snapper.


...and punter
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:05 am

hiko wrote:Dear lord, you fuckin' people have to fuckin' stop it with fuckin' Mangini.

"The progress made during the Mangini era"? What, from 5-11 to 5-11?

I don't care how much Shurmur sucks, MANGINI WAS NEVER GONNA BE THE ANSWER. Not here. Not anywhere. He plays an antiquated style that only works in shitty weather. He won't touch anyone that isn't a goody-goody. He plays favorites and makes inexplicable personnel choices.

I wish someone would go and shoot him in the fuckin' head so I could stop hearing the fuckin' moaning about a guy that so fuckin' doesn't deserve it, but then we'd probably be inundated with dudes endorsing a fuckin' 10-22 Mangini statue outside the fuckin' stadium.

Fuck.

You don't like Shurmur, you want him gone, fine. But pine after a fuckin' coach that has at least a fuckin' 3% chance of making it to the fuckin' Superbowl, not that hump.

And that's all I got to say about that.



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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:19 am

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:RGIII can go fuck himself.


Why are you so angry? 'Cause Brian making fun of German food?
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby Spin » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:42 am

swerb wrote:It may be too soon.


HELL NO it's not. That was the worst excuse for football I've ever seen, Ohio State and Cleveland. That was more painful to watch than playing it.

The worst part is it's a lot WORSE than it was last year. :gah:
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby DrPoove » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:42 am

hiko wrote:I don't care how much Shurmur sucks, MANGINI WAS NEVER GONNA BE THE ANSWER. Not here. Not anywhere. He plays an antiquated style that only works in shitty weather. He won't touch anyone that isn't a goody-goody. He plays favorites and makes inexplicable personnel choices.

Never said he was going to be the answer. All I said was he got SOMETHING out of the little talent he had. That is more than Shurmur has done in 5 games.

Mangini wasn't the answer and after 5 games I have serious doubts Shurmur is either.

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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby hiko » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:09 am

DrPoove wrote:
hiko wrote:I don't care how much Shurmur sucks, MANGINI WAS NEVER GONNA BE THE ANSWER. Not here. Not anywhere. He plays an antiquated style that only works in shitty weather. He won't touch anyone that isn't a goody-goody. He plays favorites and makes inexplicable personnel choices.

Never said he was going to be the answer. All I said was he got SOMETHING out of the little talent he had. That is more than Shurmur has done in 5 games.

Mangini wasn't the answer and after 5 games I have serious doubts Shurmur is either.

Thanks for coming in today. Have a nice week.


Was there something in particular that made you think I was speaking directly to you?

Yes, the way things have looked, I too would rather have Mangini than Shurmur right now, kind of in the same way that I'd rather have chlamydia than cancer. But what I'd really like to have is neither, thus why I don't see the need to even mention that STD that I no longer even have.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby pup » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:23 am

If people could only separate Mangini the HC from Mangini the GM.

Certainly, the GM blew goats.

But the coach was working. Except he didn't make his OC throw enough passes. At least we got that fixed.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby hiko » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:39 am

pup wrote:If people could only separate Mangini the HC from Mangini the GM.

Certainly, the GM blew goats.

But the coach was working. Except he didn't make his OC throw enough passes. At least we got that fixed.


We'll have to agree to disagree, because I'm speaking specifically about Mangini the HC. We all know Mangini the GM was an epic fail.

I don't think he was working. Nothing showed me that he was on the verge of success, especially not how the team died down the stretch. He had only 2 wins that impressed me in his 2 years. He played not to lose, conservative bullshit which I hated. I don't care if he throws the ball a lot or not (you really have to be competent at both), I just disliked his style of coaching and I'm glad to see him gone because as far as I'm concerned a guy like that might produce some decent teams from time to time but will never even sniff a championship. And all I care about is winning a championship.

If you saw greatness in him, I respect your opinion. But I didn't see anything of the sort, so I just don't get it at all. To me, it makes as much sense as Shurmur getting fired at the end of the year and then someone bringing him up in 2012 in the context of "If only we had Shurmur..." just because Holmgren brought in someone even more useless than Shurmur was/is.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby justmebd » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:46 am

Has anyone ever asked themselves why a man like Mike Holmgren has allowed the Hillis situation to drag out like it has, because Holmgren and Heckert are the only two people who can end this.

Hiko is right about a lot of things, and it's worth adding this whole Hillis situation is very "Mangini-esque." Hillis was Mangini's guy, so this front office will be difficult in dealing with him to remind everyone who is in charge.

Then we're going to shove Montario Hardesty down your throat even though he can't catch, stops moving his legs the second he gets touched (probably afraid of blowing another knee out), and generally is useless. But he's "our" pick so fuck you!!

Holmgren and Heckert allow a first-year head coach to be his own offensive coordinator and wonder why it looks like Brian Daboll keeps sneaking into Berea and leaving his suck mojo in the conference room.

We are the Detroit Lions of the Matt Millen era and it goes back to ownership. Until we have an owner that will hold his front office accountable for playing favorites and not making good football decisions, we will continue to suck. Of course, we have to have an onwer who doesn't wet himself and start crying at the thought of having anything to do with this team.

Getting Andrew Luck won't change anything with this team because the culture up top has to change. Until that does, you can bring (Insert Hall of Fame QB Here) and this team still would be challenged to win more than four games. Luck would be destroyed in two seasons here with this front office.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby hiko » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:00 am

justmebd wrote:Has anyone ever asked themselves why a man like Mike Holmgren has allowed the Hillis situation to drag out like it has, because Holmgren and Heckert are the only two people who can end this.

Hiko is right about a lot of things, and it's worth adding this whole Hillis situation is very "Mangini-esque." Hillis was Mangini's guy, so this front office will be difficult in dealing with him to remind everyone who is in charge.

Then we're going to shove Montario Hardesty down your throat even though he can't catch, stops moving his legs the second he gets touched (probably afraid of blowing another knee out), and generally is useless. But he's "our" pick so fuck you!!

Holmgren and Heckert allow a first-year head coach to be his own offensive coordinator and wonder why it looks like Brian Daboll keeps sneaking into Berea and leaving his suck mojo in the conference room.

We are the Detroit Lions of the Matt Millen era and it goes back to ownership. Until we have an owner that will hold his front office accountable for playing favorites and not making good football decisions, we will continue to suck. Of course, we have to have an onwer who doesn't wet himself and start crying at the thought of having anything to do with this team.

Getting Andrew Luck won't change anything with this team because the culture up top has to change. Until that does, you can bring (Insert Hall of Fame QB Here) and this team still would be challenged to win more than four games. Luck would be destroyed in two seasons here with this front office.


Very astute. The seemingly Mangini-esque treatment of Hillis has been distressing to me... I was hoping this bullshit followed Mangini out the door. Guess Eric wasn't the only football guy that lets his ego perform a hostile takeover on his brain.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby DeanSheen » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:10 am

I'm going to go with LeadPipe on this whole situation and add that all I see out of Holmgren so far is some fat bastard getting rich off Learner again.

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Comes down to this for me - they ain't got the coach, and they ain't got the QB. Nothing else really matters all that much. Let me know when this happens, cause until it does, Waste. Of. Time.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:29 am

justmebd wrote:Has anyone ever asked themselves why a man like Mike Holmgren has allowed the Hillis situation to drag out like it has, because Holmgren and Heckert are the only two people who can end this.

Hiko is right about a lot of things, and it's worth adding this whole Hillis situation is very "Mangini-esque." Hillis was Mangini's guy, so this front office will be difficult in dealing with him to remind everyone who is in charge.

Then we're going to shove Montario Hardesty down your throat even though he can't catch, stops moving his legs the second he gets touched (probably afraid of blowing another knee out), and generally is useless. But he's "our" pick so fuck you!!

Holmgren and Heckert allow a first-year head coach to be his own offensive coordinator and wonder why it looks like Brian Daboll keeps sneaking into Berea and leaving his suck mojo in the conference room.

We are the Detroit Lions of the Matt Millen era and it goes back to ownership. Until we have an owner that will hold his front office accountable for playing favorites and not making good football decisions, we will continue to suck. Of course, we have to have an onwer who doesn't wet himself and start crying at the thought of having anything to do with this team.

Getting Andrew Luck won't change anything with this team because the culture up top has to change. Until that does, you can bring (Insert Hall of Fame QB Here) and this team still would be challenged to win more than four games. Luck would be destroyed in two seasons here with this front office.


I have banged on Lerner since Collins-gate. No doubt the guy has been a disaster of an owner - so much so that hes abdicated most of the responsibilities to Holmgren. Sorry, but the buck stops 100% with Walrus. His guys, his scheme, his team. Lerner just writes checks, and now has little or no input on the day 2 day.

As far as accountability, Holmgren pulled the hoodie over Lerner's eyes last year by keeping Coach Which Shall Not Be Named. In essence, he bought himslef 12 extra months to dick around. So, from Randy's misguided POV, we are 5 games into a new regime. No way Holmgren gets run anytime soon.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby hiko » Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:13 am

Matt, you can just refer to him as Chlamydia, it's a little easier. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby DrPoove » Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:29 am

DrPoove wrote:
hiko wrote:I don't care how much Shurmur sucks, MANGINI WAS NEVER GONNA BE THE ANSWER. Not here. Not anywhere. He plays an antiquated style that only works in shitty weather. He won't touch anyone that isn't a goody-goody. He plays favorites and makes inexplicable personnel choices.

Never said he was going to be the answer. All I said was he got SOMETHING out of the little talent he had. That is more than Shurmur has done in 5 games.

Mangini wasn't the answer and after 5 games I have serious doubts Shurmur is either.

Thanks for coming in today. Have a nice week.

With all the expletives in your post I had no idea whom you were referring too. I have been MIA for too long so I figured I'd chime in.

My point was despite the talent level on your team you still have to use the weapons you have. Previous Coach seemed to do that a little better than Current Coach has done so far. Not saying Current Coach can't learn but seems disturbing after 5 games.

It's like yor eyeball test with Current QB. Current Coach isn't passing it right now either. Former Coach didn't either.

Even if this team was 3-2 or 4-1 they'd still have the same concerns they currently have.

My "thanks for comign in today" line was something that goes back to my DC days that isn't meant as an insult. Sorry if you thought I was being a d!ck.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:32 am

I'm waiting for someone to suggest that 'Daboll-esque' might not exactly be the insult you thought it was last season.

Last I looked Carolina was ahead of Houston, Pittsburgh, Tampa, Buffalo, San Diego and Atlanta, plus 20-ish other teams with Brian Daboll calling the plays and with a rookie QB.

They're 4th in passing and top ten in rushing.

If Daboll wasn't your cup of tea maybe it's got less to do with him than what was around him in terms of talent and philosophy.

I can think of a couple guys who took shit around here as OCs going elsewhere and having a great deal more success. Daboll looks a lot better now than he did last year, no? And I think Bruce Arians is much smarter in Pittsburgh than he was here too.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby justmebd » Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:58 am

peeker643 wrote:I'm waiting for someone to suggest that 'Daboll-esque' might not exactly be the insult you thought it was last season.

Last I looked Carolina was ahead of Houston, Pittsburgh, Tampa, Buffalo, San Diego and Atlanta, plus 20-ish other teams with Brian Daboll calling the plays and with a rookie QB.

They're 4th in passing and top ten in rushing.

If Daboll wasn't your cup of tea maybe it's got less to do with him than what was around him in terms of talent and philosophy.

I can think of a couple guys who took shit around here as OCs going elsewhere and having a great deal more success. Daboll looks a lot better now than he did last year, no? And I think Bruce Arians is much smarter in Pittsburgh than he was here too.


I see the point you're trying to make, but I disagree.

I'm surrounded by pittspuke fans, and the few intelligent ones you actually can have a discussion with all say the same thing "Just think how good this offense could be if we had a good OC."

Arians is an average coach surrounded by good talent.

As for Daboll, the Dolphins are being much more aggressive on offense per Owners' directive, but if you look closer, you'll see the Dolphins move down the field a little better than the Browns did the last two years, but once they hit the red zone, they crap the bed. Daboll is Daboll, he'll only be as good as the players and coaches around him because he's just a mediocre coach. (And he'll be out of a job again once Sparano is fired)
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:06 pm

justmebd wrote:
peeker643 wrote:I'm waiting for someone to suggest that 'Daboll-esque' might not exactly be the insult you thought it was last season.

Last I looked Carolina was ahead of Houston, Pittsburgh, Tampa, Buffalo, San Diego and Atlanta, plus 20-ish other teams with Brian Daboll calling the plays and with a rookie QB.

They're 4th in passing and top ten in rushing.

If Daboll wasn't your cup of tea maybe it's got less to do with him than what was around him in terms of talent and philosophy.

I can think of a couple guys who took shit around here as OCs going elsewhere and having a great deal more success. Daboll looks a lot better now than he did last year, no? And I think Bruce Arians is much smarter in Pittsburgh than he was here too.


I see the point you're trying to make, but I disagree.

I'm surrounded by pittspuke fans, and the few intelligent ones you actually can have a discussion with all say the same thing "Just think how good this offense could be if we had a good OC."

Arians is an average coach surrounded by good talent.

As for Daboll, the Dolphins are being much more aggressive on offense per Owners' directive, but if you look closer, you'll see the Dolphins move down the field a little better than the Browns did the last two years, but once they hit the red zone, they crap the bed. Daboll is Daboll, he'll only be as good as the players and coaches around him because he's just a mediocre coach. (And he'll be out of a job again once Sparano is fired)


Fair enough on Arians. But I'd argue Arians was considered less than average here.

And I was talking about Chudzinski in Carolina. My bad. But the point remains valid in my opinion. Just wondering whether you can ever accurately gauge a coordinator's worthiness in all of this turmoil and constant upheaval.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:12 pm

Poor sweet little Peeker killed too many brain cells in Vegas:

Daboll is in Miami, Chud is in Carolina.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:21 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Poor sweet little Peeker killed too many brain cells in Vegas:

Daboll is in Miami, Chud is in Carolina.


My weekly fantasy fortunes depend on Miami putting up some numbers on the Jets tonight as my opponent has the Jets D. So I'm a bit pre-occupied with the Miami O.

Not a good spot to be in at all if you're me.

And note how I corrected myself since I KNEW someone would do so for me. I beat you to the punch. You're getting slow. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:29 pm

Naw, I just looked on top of the quote box for your reply. Figured if you had anything important to say you'd keep it where everyone was expecting it.
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Re: Occupy Berea

Unread postby Triple-S » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:40 pm

I want to see a guy on the sidelines with some passion and color out there.

Not saying I want the guy to go madden and fake a field goal on a 3rd and 1, but I look at guys like the Harbaughs, Schwartz, Ryans, Tomlins, Paytons of the world, and those are the type of guys I want to see coach my team.

It's tiring to see these guys like Crennel, Mangini and Shurmer, who are so beyond inexperienced in dealing with the locker room and being on the sidelines.

Now, we know it isn't going to be Cowher, Gruden, or Fisher, but hell, find me the "Next" one of those guys.

And as for the QB position and the offense as a whole, to quote Cobain, "Here we are now, entertain us". I want to tune in every Sunday and be amazed. I don't care the way, be it with a super smart QB like Manning or just an amazingly athletic one like Cam Newton. Give me a reason to be excited for the whole week.
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