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Cleveland Cavaliers & The NBA

Hah.

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Hah.

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:42 pm

http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/stor ... d-nonsense

Sorry. I had a whole polite thing worked up. Lots of statistics. Reasonable. All points of view represented. But this is just deeply, impossibly stupid. In fact, the more I think about it, the angrier I get, and the more I realize that any owner who can't break even on professional sports in this country is a moron. Or a liar. Honestly. If you can't manage a pro team at a modest profit in the United States of America in the early years of the 21st century, you shouldn't be allowed to vote or operate a motor vehicle. You shouldn't be allowed near the stove.

At a time when the production and consumption of distraction are the only healthy sectors of the American economy, and when city, county, state and federal tax dollars pay for the arenas and the stadiums, to lose money on the operation of a pro sports franchise has to be grounds for involuntary psychiatric commitment. Or prosecution.

And if any of this sounds familiar, consider where we've heard it before.

The NBA, too big to fail!


I really really hate David Stern.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:27 pm

Let the meltdowns commence!
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:45 am

You knew the players would need to bleed. The rank and file will crumble. Assholes like LeBron and AMare will demand the line be held while they live off their past and their endorsements.

In the end it won't matter. This was always going to happen and there was always gonna bloody.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:56 am

peeker643 wrote:You knew the players would need to bleed. The rank and file will crumble. Assholes like LeBron and AMare will demand the line be held while they live off their past and their endorsements.

In the end it won't matter. This was always going to happen and there was always gonna bloody.


Eh, Hunter could've easily taken some mild system changes and negotiated somewhere between 50 and 53 percent and got it done and approved. The halfway point has been sitting out in the open for weeks now.

But the agents and the max players would've crucified him for it. And that's your problem right there.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:19 am

Yes, obviously he should have taken a hard cap and 50%, because that is the only offer the league has made.

Don't pretend like a fair decision has been sitting out there. The league started at 61-39 w/ an insane system and has acted like coming off of that is concessions.

Now Stern won't even admit to having offered 50%, something a week ago him and Silver copped to in a press conference.

The owners always planned on missing games.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:46 am

Probably the best summary of where we are: http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/10 ... e-wayside/

And the best summary of how insane the owner's negotiating has been: http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2011/10/11/ ... -fans-hook

The only deal out there for Hunter to take was to agree to 50% before discussing the system a week ago. And the system is, once again, a hard cap. It's just a cleverly disquised one.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:57 am

And, of course, there is the fact that it pretty much now looks like the original 50% offer was fake and just a PR move by Stern.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby mitch » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:14 pm

No NBA in 2011-2012?

Really don't give a shit. Preening thugs vs. egomaniacal owners.

A plague on both of their houses.

Didn't watch an entire game tip-off to final buzzer last season, including playoffs, and I'm not going to lose a minute's sleep if I never watch another one.

Let it burn.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:57 am

Ignoring those that don't watch and hate basketball, here you go: http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/1572 ... speed-bump
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:02 am

e0y2e3 wrote:Ignoring those that don't watch and hate basketball, here you go: http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/1572 ... speed-bump


Christ, what a clusterfuck.

I just want to see Irving and yes, even Tristan Thompson play.

What a bunch of assholes. The lot of them.


and, I don't really get the whole "cancel the whole season" sentiment. If the games re on and the season is being played, that doesn't mean you HAVE to watch. Just watch something else if you aren't interested. Why the glee over a cancelled season?
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:41 am

“Irony is wasted on the stupid” - Oscar Wilde
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:12 pm

KBergCBS Ken Berger
Nobody wins. But eliminating worst money-losers preferable to killing season. RT @HPbasketball @KBergCBS you win, you smug bastard.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:19 pm

This Billy Hunter interview is pretty damn much what I expected, but is real good.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/10/12/ ... to-falter/

Listen is a small scroll down.

Stern told Hunter three years ago he was locking them out, yeah they planned on making a deal.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:32 pm

Best case scenario (and a likely one) is that they get the last 20-40 games of the regular season in, the Cavs tank another one away, and we get into the lottery again for next year in a deeper draft class to get another low cost-club control piece.

I'm thoroughly meh.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby pup » Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:43 pm

20, 40 or 82 games, I think it is pretty safe we are lottery bound.

Intentionally or not.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:35 pm

Stern just said on his counter to Hunter's interview on WFAN today that if no deal next Tuesday he expects to miss Christmas.

Now Stern is also a blowhard liar that just claimed the league offered to let the players look at their books and the players declined, which is insanity.

I'll post the interview tomorrow after the pod version is up.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby motherscratcher » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:36 pm

Probably better for the Cavs to get at least part of the season in. The more the better actually.

If they lose the whole season, and the NBA goes with a "last 3 seasons" type of thing the way the NHL did, the Cavs are screwed. The Cavs averaged 49 wins the last 3 seasons which I'm sure would put us way out of the lottery.

The more games they get in this year, the less chance that previous seasons would factor into it. At least that's what would seem to make sense.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:02 pm

http://cbsloc.al/pSUk19 <-link to Stern on WFAN
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby swerb » Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:02 pm

I'm don't know whats fair, but I'm cheering for Stern and the owners here, and more specifically, anything that evens the playing field and prevents these fuckheads from scheming to all team up together on back channel agreements.

It will destroy the game. And I love basketball.

Once Chris Paul joins the Knicks and it happens again in a couple of other cities, the NBA will become MLB ... but without the charm and at higher ticket prices. I've heard all the arguments from those that would prefer that to the parity we see in the NFL ... and I think its horseshit. A league where the deck isn't stacked against half the teams will always be better than one where it is.

Maybe I'm still jaded by the LeBron thing (I so am) ... but I hope the players get screwed. I want a penal luxury tax that acts as a cap. I want rules that encourages players to stay with the teams that drafted them. And I want less revenues for the players so it doesn't cost me $600 to take a family of four to a Cavs game.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby motherscratcher » Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:12 pm

swerb wrote:I'm don't know whats fair, but I'm cheering for Stern and the owners here, and more specifically, anything that evens the playing field and prevents these fuckheads from scheming to all team up together on back channel agreements.

It will destroy the game. And I love basketball.

Once Chris Paul joins the Knicks and it happens again in a couple of other cities, the NBA will become MLB ... but without the charm and at higher ticket prices. I've heard all the arguments from those that would prefer that to the parity we see in the NFL ... and I think its horseshit. A league where the deck isn't stacked against half the teams will always be better than one where it is.

Maybe I'm still jaded by the LeBron thing (I so am) ... but I hope the players get screwed. I want a penal luxury tax that acts as a cap. I want rules that encourages players to stay with the teams that drafted them. And I want less revenues for the players so it doesn't cost me $600 to take a family of four to a Cavs game.


Here's the thing. I don't know that a salary cap stops LBJ and the Heat from happening. Maybe it's exactly the reason it can happen. If the top NBA players are worth $50mil per (like Wade says) could any team possibly afford 3 of them? We had a cap and it happened anyway. I don't know how you level the playing field in the NBA, but I'm not convinced that a salary cap will do it, hard or soft.

I also don't buy that the prices will fall if the salaries come down. Not for a damn second. The prices will fall if and when the bean counters decided that there is more profit to be made by dropping ticket prices and getting more asses in the seats. Not a second before.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby YahooFanChicago » Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:08 am

Don't you stop the Heat situation from happening through an effective cap plus franchise tags? Won't that allow the teams that drafted the superstar to hold on to him if they want to? Combining it with a reasonable cap should also prevent the cost of holding on to the superstar from being out of reach.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:34 am

YahooFanChicago wrote:Don't you stop the Heat situation from happening through an effective cap plus franchise tags? Won't that allow the teams that drafted the superstar to hold on to him if they want to? Combining it with a reasonable cap should also prevent the cost of holding on to the superstar from being out of reach.


LBJ didn't leave because his cost was out of reach. He left because he wanted to play with his buddies in Souf Beach. The cap didn't prevent those guys from teaming up. The cap allowed it to happen by making them affordable to the same team, something that might not have happened with no cap.

I might have missed it, but I can't remember hearing a thing about a possible franchise tag recently. Is that on the table?
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:13 am

Don't bother mother. I've just decided to light Cleveland hoops fans on fire. Rich is just another ash in the flame.

Stupidest fucking people ever.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:15 am

And, FTR, no one on any side has ever talked about the franchise tag.

This has happened for two reasons:

1) any NFL player that hated his team and demanded out while franchised got traded

and

2) NO ONE GIVES A FUCK THIS LOCKOUT IS JUST ABOUT MAKING MONEY
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:16 am

Honestly, I'm done w/ this forum till the end of the lockout. I hope you guys can find your asshole and why it isn't your dick.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:35 am

e0y2e3 wrote:Honestly, I'm done w/ this forum till the end of the lockout. I hope you guys can find your asshole and why it isn't your dick.


Aaaaaaaaaaand paydirt. The shitting all over hometown and casual fans, the whining over the lockout, and the eventual meltdowns and self-immolations have made this lockout more entertaining than I could have ever hoped in my wildest dreams.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby Orenthal » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:20 am

Whatever restricts player movement the most I'm down with. For the next LBJ.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:14 pm

motherscratcher wrote:Here's the thing. I don't know that a salary cap stops LBJ and the Heat from happening. Maybe it's exactly the reason it can happen. If the top NBA players are worth $50mil per (like Wade says) could any team possibly afford 3 of them? We had a cap and it happened anyway. I don't know how you level the playing field in the NBA, but I'm not convinced that a salary cap will do it, hard or soft.


To be honest, I'm pretty sure you're right. I'm not even sure there is a way to level the playing field to begin with. Where the problem is, and why the owners are panicking and flailing at squaring the circle, is where that road leads. The Association already took it in the rear when the economy cratered the last time. Disappearing gate receipts will only make the situation worse.

Already you have major writers claiming that there are too many teams in the league. I'm having a hard time believing that's a talent pool issue. And if its not, then what issues are we having, and how do you fix them before it impacts league revenues and TV deals?

I also don't buy that the prices will fall if the salaries come down. Not for a damn second. The prices will fall if and when the bean counters decided that there is more profit to be made by dropping ticket prices and getting more asses in the seats. Not a second before.


Also this. If you're having problems giving tickets away to begin with...
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby swerb » Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:04 pm

This is no different than what happened in the NHL seven years ago. The financial system of the sport went bad over time, and it needs majorly fixed. Teams were hemmoraghing $ and paying out over 75% of revenues to players in salaries. The new NHL salary cap was set at 53% of revenues, and moves up and down every year based on revenues taken in.

NHL lockout was 45 weeks ... and the sport and the money model was fixed, and is now thriving. If it takes the cancellation of a full season, I am all for it, as I want the NBA and NBA fans to look back on the lockout the same way they do now seven years later.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby Orenthal » Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:23 pm

"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:28 pm

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/710 ... ut-red-sox

Don't completely agree, but its worth a read. I don't think a league that just crowned an NBA Finals MVP from Germany should have any problem finding enough talent for 30 teams. But that goes into a bigger issue with the NBA regular season being about as compelling as Arena Football.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby Orenthal » Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:54 pm

Why do people follow professional sports teams?
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby Orenthal » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:43 pm

Shane Battier is willing to give up some BRI for a more affordable game experience. Check his twitter MHill.

First of owners or players I've seen willing to give ground... To fans.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:34 pm

Orenthal wrote:Shane Battier is willing to give up some BRI for a more affordable game experience. Check his twitter MHill.

First of owners or players I've seen willing to give ground... To fans.


Easy to say when everyone knows it will never happen.

I'll tell you what, I'll give up 50% of my annual salary if stadiums will drop the price of beer to $2 a bottle. Not for me...for the fans. I'm such a great dude.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby mitch » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:06 am

swerb wrote:I'm don't know whats fair, but I'm cheering for Stern and the owners here, and more specifically, anything that evens the playing field and prevents these fuckheads from scheming to all team up together on back channel agreements.

It will destroy the game. And I love basketball.

Once Chris Paul joins the Knicks and it happens again in a couple of other cities, the NBA will become MLB ... but without the charm and at higher ticket prices. I've heard all the arguments from those that would prefer that to the parity we see in the NFL ... and I think its horseshit. A league where the deck isn't stacked against half the teams will always be better than one where it is.

Maybe I'm still jaded by the LeBron thing (I so am) ... but I hope the players get screwed. I want a penal luxury tax that acts as a cap. I want rules that encourages players to stay with the teams that drafted them. And I want less revenues for the players so it doesn't cost me $600 to take a family of four to a Cavs game.



This^^^^^^^^^

The NBA was headed straight towards making MLB look fair, given that three stars can dominate, where baseball can still find the Stankees, RedSux, and Phrillies outside looking in.

The NBA has NEVER had a coward such as LeRobin try to buy his way into titles he's unable to win on his own. They can't let this mentality win.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby mitch » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:10 am

e0y2e3 wrote:Don't bother mother. I've just decided to light Cleveland hoops fans on fire. Rich is just another ash in the flame.

Stupidest fucking people ever.


So why the fuck are you even here?

Seriously...you hate the Browns, you hate the Cavaliers, you hate Cleveland, you hate Cleveland fans, and you don't live in Ohio.

But you are good at whining like a 6 year old girl.

Which pretty much makes you the perfect Bostonian.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby noles1 » Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:31 am

Following this I have been saying for awhile that I can't believe the NBA is allowing certain guys to run the show on this negotiation. It's mind-boggling. The second KG enters the fray the owners already have won. Emotion will not win this discussion. It takes logical and smart people, seemingly what neither side have.

Frankly, I'm slowly getting over the Lebron thing. What he did is fairly unprecedented and I'm not certain really needs to be protected against happening because it's likely not to play out that way every again.

The NBA does need to contract at least 2 teams but I can't see Stern or his cronies figuring that out. Really enjoyed Simmons artcile because it hit on all the blame going all the way around, meanwhile, the fans and fan experience are evolving in a way that no one truly knows where it's headed.

Don't know how this shakes out but I see basketball no sooner than February. Though I think the owners improve slightly for fear of players really shifting the nature of the discussion or decertification. At this point, while I see the players showing weaknesses in quotes, by in large they will be able to hold up reasonably well throughout this.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby Orenthal » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:08 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
Orenthal wrote:Shane Battier is willing to give up some BRI for a more affordable game experience. Check his twitter MHill.

First of owners or players I've seen willing to give ground... To fans.


Easy to say when everyone knows it will never happen.

I'll tell you what, I'll give up 50% of my annual salary if stadiums will drop the price of beer to $2 a bottle. Not for me...for the fans. I'm such a great dude.


If I hadn't posted that from my phone I would have added context. So far the rest of the NBA player tweets have been short NBA cares type commercials. Where the guys say they feel for you as the hop in their Maserati. This was an actual player saying he would give up something if it was returned to the fans. Unlikely, but IMO a difference, but then again its coming from Battier he's just a different cat.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby Ziner » Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:01 am

Image
In the end, we're all "only for a limited time," you guys.
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Re: Hah.

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:07 am

The owners' "negotiating" is an absolute joke. "Agree to 50% or we'll wont address the salary cap issue". Yeah... that's a good faith negotiating. What a bunch of clown these pricks are. Don't give me that shit about you losing money. You're lying or you really suck at running a business. Which is it? I see the out and out rape that goes on at the concession stands, merchandise booths, and ticket counters. Even if these soulless cunts get their way, I wont see a break, I'll still have to take out a loan to go see a shitty NBA team. Where's the fans' cut? So why the FUCK should I give a shit if they get a 50-50 split or 47.5-52.5? Someone answer that for me, because I don't give a shit.... at all.

David Stern and his band of shitsalad owners can go take a fucking flying leap off a building. Please?
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