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Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

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Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby mistero » Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:08 am

OFF THE TEAM:
Brian Robiskie,Artis Hicks,Tony Pashos,Oniel Cousins,Carlton Mitchell,Jordan Norwood
Peyton Hillis,Alex Smith,Scott Fujita,Kaluka Maiava,Sheldon Brown,Usama Young






WR1 Greg Little 2nd Rounder
LT Joe Thomas
LG Steinbach, Eric- Jason Pinkston
C Alex Mack- Steve Vallos
RG Shawn Lauvao- John Greco
RT Blue Chip FA - 5th Rounder
TE Benjamin Watson - Evan Moore - Jordan Cameron
WR2 Blue Chip FA -Mohamed Massaquoi -Joshua Cribbs
QB Colt McCoy- Seneca Wallace- Thaddeus Lewis
FB Owen Marecic-
RB Montario Hardesty,- Jackson Brandon- Armond Smith


LDE Jabaal Sheard- Marcus Benard
DT Phillip Taylor- 4th Rounder
DT Ahtyba Rubin- Brian Schaefering
RDE 1st Rounder - Jayme Mitchell
SLB 2nd Rounder -Quinton Spears
MLB D'Qwell Jackson -Titus Brown
WLB Chris Gocong -3rd Rounder
LCB Joe Haden -Buster Skrine
RCB 1st Rounder -Dimitri Patterson -James Dockery
FS Blue Chip FA - Mike Adams
SS T. J. Ward- Ray Ventrone- Eric Hagg
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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby swerb » Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:48 am

WCO offense team can't have a starting RB that can't catch the ball. Plan in general may not be too far off though.
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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby mistero » Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:18 am

Hardesty had a tough outing against the Titans. I'm not sure he's got a real problem catching though. Jury still out. Have to think Holgren is still in love with Brandon Jackson's WCO pedigree. I'm not making a point to single out Hillis for replacement ,but isn't the writing on the wall? Even if he gets an extension is he really a fit for what Shurmer wants? I know Brandon Jackson is.
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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby swerb » Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:28 am

The thing is, Hillis is perfectly fine for this offense. I'm not sure what the eff Shurmur has been doing offensively. IMO, the play calling so far this year has been an abomination.

Was at a conference in St Louis this week. Talked to a bunch of Rams fans. They all were horrified we hired Shurmur and not surprised at all when I bitched about his play calling.

Just maddening how far away this team still is. Especially given some of McCoy's limitations. Gonna have to surround him with A LOT more talent than you would a Stafford or a Bradford if you wanna win a sausage with him.
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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby pod2dawg » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:16 am

swerb wrote:The thing is, Hillis is perfectly fine for this offense. I'm not sure what the eff Shurmur has been doing offensively. IMO, the play calling so far this year has been an abomination.

Just maddening how far away this team still is. Especially given some of McCoy's limitations. Gonna have to surround him with A LOT more talent than you would a Stafford or a Bradford if you wanna win a sausage with him.


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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby Prosecutor » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:50 am

They can't count on Hardesty to stay healthy enough to be the feature back for 16 games, so Hillis stays. This offense requires a back who can catch the ball, and Hillis excels in that area, unlike Hardesty (so far). Also, Hillis is valuable in those short-yardage and goal line situations.

I don't agree with using a first round pick on a DE to replace Jayme Mitchell when the offense has been so bad. Mitchell is not the problem. I agree on using one 1st rounder on a CB to replace Sheldon Brown, but the other 1st round pick should go to the offense. I'm thinking either WR or RT, depending on which of those positions they can fill in free agency and how the draft falls out.

If they're running a pass-first offense and plan on throwing 40 times a game, they need an impact WR. I would take a WR in the 1st round and sign a RT in free agency. If they take a WR in round 1 they don't need another in round 2 and can take a DL there. The lack of depth on the DL is scary.

I'm not sure what Irv Smith did to get himself cut off your team, either.
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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby mistero » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:16 pm

They can't count on Hardesty to stay healthy enough to be the feature back for 16 games, so Hillis stays

Who is Green Bay's feature back? Who is New England's feature back? Detroits?

The bombs away offense doesn't require one, just a stable of third down backs you can rotate through and not waste too much cap space on.

don't agree with using a first round pick on a DE to replace Jayme Mitchell when the offense has been so bad. Mitchell is not the problem.


Think about good defensive lines in the 4-3. They rotate ends in to keep them fresh. We could use a stud rookie DE that makes Mitchell the 3rd DE. Pash rush is critical.

If they're running a pass-first offense and plan on throwing 40 times a game, they need an impact WR. I would take a WR in the 1st round....

How about a free agent like Dwayne Bowe who doesn't need 2 years to get up to speed?


I'm not sure what Irv Smith did to get himself cut off your team, either.

Just hoping they don't keep 4 TE again. Jordan Cameron and Marecic were both wasted picks but I don't get to vote on who they keep.
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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby swerb » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:53 pm

Who is Green Bay's feature back? Who is New England's feature back? Detroits?

The bombs away offense doesn't require one, just a stable of third down backs you can rotate through and not waste too much cap space on.

Right.

If you've got Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, or Matt Stafford.

We have Colt McCoy. And a bunch of CFL recievers.

Get me Andrew Luck and I'm on board with the "stable of third down backs you can rotate through" philosophy.

They'd be insane to get rid of Hillis. The guy can run people over and has great hands.
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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:17 pm

I'm still trying to figure out who the fuck Irv Smith is.

;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby Prosecutor » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:52 pm

peeker643 wrote:I'm still trying to figure out who the fuck Irv Smith is.

;-) ;) :wink:


He's Robert Royal with slightly better hands.
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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby swerb » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:55 pm

peeker643 wrote:I'm still trying to figure out who the fuck Irv Smith is.

;-) ;) :wink:

First round pick. In 1993. by the Saints.

Image

Actually played for the Browns in 1999.

(I can't believe I just spent 4 minutes looking all that up.)
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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:55 pm

Prosecutor wrote:
peeker643 wrote:I'm still trying to figure out who the fuck Irv Smith is.

;-) ;) :wink:


He's Robert Royal with slightly better hands.


Ahhh......

See, I thought that was Alex Smith.
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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby Prosecutor » Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:17 pm

mistero wrote:They can't count on Hardesty to stay healthy enough to be the feature back for 16 games, so Hillis stays

Who is Green Bay's feature back? Who is New England's feature back? Detroits?

The bombs away offense doesn't require one, just a stable of third down backs you can rotate through and not waste too much cap space on.


That's a good point. If the Browns think they can get by with a "stable" consisting of Hardesty, Brandon Jackson, and Armond Smith, and somebody is willing to cough up a 1st or 2nd round pick for Hillis, which would also free up some cap space, then it makes sense to move him. Three first round picks can move us up from #20 into the top five and get us a Matt Stafford, if that's what Holmgren thinks he needs. Or stick with Colt and get three instant upgrades.

I read Hillis has changed agents three times in the last nine months and his latest agent and the Browns are "far apart" on a new contract.

Hey, the Steelers running game sucks this year. Peyton would be the perfect heir to Jerome Bettis. How about we just let him waltz over to Pittspuke as a free agent?
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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby mistero » Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:16 pm

Don't be confused on what I would do and what I think Holgren wants to do. If it was up to me I would of built this offense around Vickers and Hillis.
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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby pup » Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:55 am

Does anyone pay attention to trades in the NFL?

If you do, and you still say "we get a 1st or 2nd" for Peyton Hillis, put the pipe down.

Nobody is giving you a 1 or 2 for a position that most in this thread are accurately depicting as window dressing.

Be lucky to get a 3 for him. Much better chance at trading him for one of those positions of need. Find a guy whose welcome has been worn out and needs a new home.

Beyond the fact people are openly talking about trading the ONE player on offense the opponents have to actually game plan for.

Which rebuild number are we on next year?
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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:13 am

How sad

4 games into the season and peeps are thinking and talking about "Next Year"

This is like deifying Cam Newton after 4 games....likely by the same peeps who were getting wood over Sanchize.............I give you Jeff Blake

...and when was the last time anyone here or anywhere else has been right about anything?

For starters....all the hyperbole of how SF was going to tank for Luck?
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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:28 am

Sanchez >>>> than Colt, so that is really all that matters.

And WTF are babbling about re: SF? You mean the SF team that sucked last year and did nothing except bring in hurt vag Braylon while hiring a new coach?

A new coach that took a shit team, had no time to install his system due to the lockout and is showing success nonetheless?

You mean a coach can inspire a turn around in a franchise while installing his system in a shortened period of time? And he can install that system w/ a shitty QB like Alex Smith and still eek out wins (NOTE: I AM IN NO WAY CALLING THIS TEAM CONTENDERS).

Because I'm pretty sure that I've been told repeatedly by Browns Nation Fanbois that Shurmur can't have expectations placed on him because this is a new system, the lockout screwed him and Colt is not a refined QB.
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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby LakeErieWarriors » Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:23 am

I agree with you FireMarshallBill, if we decide to start playing to our potential, and something bad happens with the Ravens, we could be right there in the mix. The Steelers are gonna have it pretty rough in the near future esp. without Big Ben. The key thing is playing to our potential, that has not happened since we did it on a few occasions last season. On another note, the Cleveland Browns defense were the butt end of a joke on the Season Premeire of The League last night Pretty damn hilarious.
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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby Prosecutor » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:57 pm

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:How sad

4 games into the season and peeps are thinking and talking about "Next Year"



We lost at home to the Bungles and got our clocks cleaned at home by the Titans. We managed to beat the crippled Colts and a bad Dolphins team. And we barely squeaked by the Dolphins in the last minute.

You darned right it's all about next year after four games. It's about finding out if Colt is the Guy, and getting experience for Taylor, Sheard, Little, Pinkston, Marecic, Skrine, Hardesty, Lauvao, and maybe Armond Smith and Carlton Mitchell at some point.

If all we're going get for Hillis is a 3rd round pick then I say we keep him.
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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:18 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Sanchez >>>> than Colt, so that is really all that matters.


Vinny Testaverde Mk II is better than Colt?
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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:37 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Sanchez >>>> than Colt, so that is really all that matters.

And WTF are babbling about re: SF? You mean the SF team that sucked last year and did nothing except bring in hurt vag Braylon while hiring a new coach?

A new coach that took a shit team, had no time to install his system due to the lockout and is showing success nonetheless?

You mean a coach can inspire a turn around in a franchise while installing his system in a shortened period of time? And he can install that system w/ a shitty QB like Alex Smith and still eek out wins (NOTE: I AM IN NO WAY CALLING THIS TEAM CONTENDERS).

Because I'm pretty sure that I've been told repeatedly by Browns Nation Fanbois that Shurmur can't have expectations placed on him because this is a new system, the lockout screwed him and Colt is not a refined QB.


I'm saying don't pay too much attention to the opinions of the vast majority of posters because some of them predicted SF to tank the season just to get LUCKy...

I see a 2nd yr QB with no WR's and a very young but promising defensive foundation...I think I'll give everyone a half season at least before I start throwing rocks through their windows....

...and I'm the one whose been saying for 11 yrs...."Still 5 yrs away"
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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby Prosecutor » Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:49 pm

I see a 2nd yr QB with no WR's and a very young but promising defensive foundation...I think I'll give everyone a half season at least before I start throwing rocks through their windows....


No rock throwing, just a sober assessment after four games that a team with a 2nd year QB and no WRs isn't going to the playoffs and it's not too early to be thinking about what needs to be done for next year.
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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby Triple-S » Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:48 pm

I think as a fan, it can be frustrating to see these teams recently like the Falcons, Panthers, Steelers, Buccaneers just that are able to draft this franchise QB, and are able to flip the switch to instantly make themselves into playoff team, or hoist the Lombardi.

You have to wonder when it's just finally going to be hit. Waiting sucks. I hate being cynical like this, just am dying for some optimism of some sort.
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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby LakeErieWarriors » Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:54 pm

I hear you Triple S, If there's one thing to be optimistic about, it's the talent on the team. That's a good thing. We have actually been getting good qb protection this year, which hasn't always been true. We have solid capability at our skill positions. We just need these guys to play to their true potential and we need the coaches to gameplan in a way that will bring out the best of these players' ability. It could happen this year. We could go on a run.
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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:58 am

LakeErieWarriors wrote:I hear you Triple S, If there's one thing to be optimistic about, it's the talent on the team. That's a good thing. We have actually been getting good qb protection this year, which hasn't always been true. We have solid capability at our skill positions. We just need these guys to play to their true potential and we need the coaches to gameplan in a way that will bring out the best of these players' ability. It could happen this year. We could go on a run.


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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:44 am

Anyone see Houston play yesterday?

Its worth noting Vickers dropped a wide open TD pass yesterday in a 9 pt game

Had he scored then, Houston kicks a FG at the end and wins....FWIW

...and Schaub looked as bad as McCoy did last week YMMV
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Re: Your 2012 Cleveland Browns

Unread postby HoodooMan » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:43 pm

We interrupt this week's regularly scheduled LOUD NOISES!1!1!!1!!! to bring you...Armchair GM time!

Things I would do going forward:

-Unless BAL can extend Grubbs before FA starts, he'll hit the open market, because no one uses the franchise tag on OGs. And now that Steinbach is dead, we could use another elite LG. SIGN HIM!

-Brees is set to be a FA, which is only relevant to us because NO will probably have to use its franchise tag on him, which leaves an opening for a somewhat oldish yet still very good Marques Colston to stray in FA. We could certainly use another (yes, I said another!) good receiver on this team. SIGN HIM!

-I wish I could find a more complete listing of 2012 FAs so that I could put an actual name here instead of Generic Vet RT Guy, but find him then...SIGN HIM!

-In the unlikely event--growing less and less likely by the day--you could get a Top 50ish pick out of Peyton Hillis, make the deal. Otherwise, tag & keep him at least another year.

-If there's a franchise QB prospect we like with our first pick (there probably will be!), obviously, we have to take him. I have my preference, but I could be fine with any of the Big 4. Unless we're absolutely in love with a specific guy, don't trade up for any of them, though. I don't think we're in a position to do that right now.

-Otherwise, continue using our high picks this year (meaning 1st & 2nd rounders) on defensive players--even with our highest 1st rounder if we're somehow horribly positioned for all of the QBs we like. We have enough good young talent on defense that, with another heavy top of the draft investment, we could reach critical mass for a legitimately very good NFL defense. If we could get good value for Hillis and/or pair one of our 4th rounders with our 3rd for another 2nd, we could have as many as 4 or 5 picks in the first two rounds. 3 or 4 more defensive starters added to a core of Haden, Ward, Taylor, Sheard, Rubin, and DQ could actually give Browns fans the refreshing sight of the team being good on one side of the ball for the first time in, what, 15 years? I am for this.

^Fits Holmgren's stated and (seemingly) Heckert's practiced stance on using FA to upgrade the offense and the top of the draft on defense.
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