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Occupy Wall Street

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Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:37 pm

These people are awesome. Love the demands. I took the liberty of highlighting a few of my favorite. Surely a centrist like JB would come back to tell us that these people are more retarded than the Tea party, right?


Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.


Demand four: Free college education.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.

Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.

Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.

Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.

Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.

Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.

Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.

These demands will create so many jobs it will be completely impossible to fill them without an open borders policy.

Interesting website right here. http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/

Some I feel like telling them to quit their bitching, some I feel bad for. However, to think the government can take all bad out of the world is ridiculous.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:47 pm

lol.

We Are the 99% are straight up hippies. Like hackey sack and giant beaver hippies.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:50 pm

But think of how sweet the world would be if you got a living wage regardless of whether you worked or not. That is how you build a really successful society.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:05 pm

Of course!

But it's a pretty diverse group of protesters. WAT99% says outlandish things and gets attention.

Love how you got that Tea Party name drop in there, that's some clever shit, dawg.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:07 pm

Ziner wrote:But think of how sweet the world would be if you got a living wage regardless of whether you worked or not.


You speak as though there are those not already enjoying this feature. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:11 pm

Uggggghhhhh....... The zombie plague can't get here soon enough. If it's the kind that crave brains, the Republicans should be ok.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:16 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Uggggghhhhh....... The zombie plague can't get here soon enough. If it's the kind that crave brains, the Republicans should be ok.


As eccentric as it might be, I like what they're doing. I'm not kidding. I'm fine with their energy and I'm fine with younger people actually paying attention to something like this.

I'm fine with them getting the attention and getting a little recognition. If you're going to effect change it has to start somewhere. I agree with the hippie analogy but, fuck, I'm glad to see anyone sit up and take notice of what's going and and have the ambition to want to better the situation or at least shine a light on something other than their text machines and x-box controllers. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:23 pm

I get what you're saying, and I got no problem with what they're doing. Hell I agree with a lot of it, but it sucks to agree with hippies..... like Joe Bauserman level of suckitude.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:27 pm

I also heard you can't find a Che Guevara T-shirt in any NYC Hot Topics.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:30 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I also heard you can't find a Che Guevara T-shirt in any NYC Hot Topics.


I don't need any more than one for each day of the week. And you have more cred if they're rattier and worn.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:31 pm

peeker643 wrote: I agree with the hippie analogy but, fuck, I'm glad to see anyone sit up and take notice of what's going and and have the ambition to want to better the situation or at least shine a light on something other than their text machines and x-box controllers. ;-) ;) :wink:


How about using some of that ambition to take your own life by the balls. All of these people think this mythical wall street boogie man is keeping them down. Fuck, we have a pretty damn big safety net in this country regardless of what Democrats say. It is not perfect and people slip through the cracks, but these people take little responsibility for their own lives. I can promise you if I were on unemployment for 99 weeks with nothing promising I would be starting my own damn business. Had a long discussion with my dog walker, She was formerly a brand manager and she said it was her dream job, she got laid off. Sick of looking in a down market she started her own dog walking business and she said she loves it and it appears she is doing quite well. Not everyone has the education, and I get that it is surely hard to find the 9 to 5er, but dog walking does not require a PhD.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:34 pm

and btw that is not to say there arent things that need to be done to Wall Street... (wasnt Dodd-Frank supposed to do it?)

Taxing Wall Street or bringing the people at Lehman in to court isn't going to change these people's lives anytime soon.

I do believe there are some heads that should roll from the entire thing, but this entire mess was not nearly as much Wall Street as most would like you to believe and was more about distorted incentives.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:52 pm

I can promise you if I were on unemployment for 99 weeks with nothing promising I would be starting my own damn business.


LOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLL!!!!!!

With what?

Taxing Wall Street or bringing the people at Lehman in to court isn't going to change these people's lives anytime soon.

I do believe there are some heads that should roll from the entire thing, but this entire mess was not nearly as much Wall Street as most would like you to believe and was more about distorted incentives.



You're right, I wouldn't blame the corrupt casino either.

And hell yeah on that Lehman guys in court bit. There's really no point to bring people to account for crimes if it isn't going to change my life anytime soon.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:55 pm

Ziner wrote:
peeker643 wrote: I agree with the hippie analogy but, fuck, I'm glad to see anyone sit up and take notice of what's going and and have the ambition to want to better the situation or at least shine a light on something other than their text machines and x-box controllers. ;-) ;) :wink:


How about using some of that ambition to take your own life by the balls. All of these people think this mythical wall street boogie man is keeping them down. Fuck, we have a pretty damn big safety net in this country regardless of what Democrats say. It is not perfect and people slip through the cracks, but these people take little responsibility for their own lives. I can promise you if I were on unemployment for 99 weeks with nothing promising I would be starting my own damn business. Had a long discussion with my dog walker, She was formerly a brand manager and she said it was her dream job, she got laid off. Sick of looking in a down market she started her own dog walking business and she said she loves it and it appears she is doing quite well. Not everyone has the education, and I get that it is surely hard to find the 9 to 5er, but dog walking does not require a PhD.


Z- there are plenty of 'dog walkers' who are democrats and there are plenty of small business owners on that side of life as well who have taken their own lives by the balls. Not only that, but we don't know the people individually. You have their goofy manifesto to go on and it is misguided in some ways, sure. But the point I'm making is I'm glad to see these people involved in whatever it way it takes to get them involved.

When people sought flight they didn't initially climb into the cockpit of an F-16. They peddled shit off of cliffs and died a thousand times. Let them make their stand. I'm not going to bitch about people not being involved and then criticize those who are because their philosophy differs from mine.

I thought this was an interesting read today: http://bit.ly/qPlUk8
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:01 pm

Great read there, Peeks.

These protests aren't going away, they're spreading
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:04 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
I can promise you if I were on unemployment for 99 weeks with nothing promising I would be starting my own damn business.


LOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLL!!!!!!

With what?


What are you talking about? With what money? with what idea?

I'd start a company that reviews pizza and you sure as fuck wouldnt be hired.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
Taxing Wall Street or bringing the people at Lehman in to court isn't going to change these people's lives anytime soon.

I do believe there are some heads that should roll from the entire thing, but this entire mess was not nearly as much Wall Street as most would like you to believe and was more about distorted incentives.



You're right, I wouldn't blame the corrupt casino either.

And hell yeah on that Lehman guys in court bit. There's really no point to bring people to account for crimes if it isn't going to change my life anytime soon.


I dont think you read that well. I am fine with prosecution of them, I am just saying if these people think their life gets better because of some exec from Goldman Sachs gets thrown in to jail they are going to be highly disappointed.

And your casino comment is ignorant, it just is. Homeowners, investors, pension funds, mortgage brokers, real estate agents, insurance companies, home builders, government, politicians, Fannie and Freddie execs, etc, etc, etc all had perverted incentives and it is Wall Street who are the only ones who are corrupt. Surely they are were an integral piece of that, but they in no way are the only ones at fault, not even close. I can walk you through it group by group, but if you look at the situation it isn't very hard to figure out the perverted incentives that existed. It just requires some thought and dropping of the rhetoric you damn hippie hack. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:10 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Great read there, Peeks.

These protests aren't going away, they're spreading


I hope so. Because the discourse and the awareness is the key IMO. I thought this summed it up for those not wishing to read the article (which I thought was well-done regardless of party affiliation):

Are they ready to articulate exactly what that problem is and how to address it? No, not yet. But neither are Congress or the president who, in thrall to corporate America and Wall Street, respectively, have consistently failed to engage in anything resembling a conversation as cogent as the many I witnessed as I strolled by Occupy Wall Street's many teach-ins this morning. There were young people teaching one another about, among other things, how the economy works, about the disconnection of investment banking from the economy of goods and services, the history of centralized interest-bearing currency, the creation and growth of the derivatives industry, and about the Obama administration deciding to settle with, rather than investigate and prosecute the investment banking industry for housing fraud.


No idea what happens. These people could fizzle out, be bought or emerge as polarized as generations before them. But I like the fact they're out there and bringing attention to issues that affect all of us. I just see nothing at all unhealthy about that.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:15 pm

What are you talking about? With what money? with what idea?

I'd start a company that reviews pizza and you sure as fuck wouldnt be hired.


I wouldn't need to work for you. I would have my own bigger better pizza review operation..... and we would be unionized.

Suck it.


it is Wall Street who are the only ones who are corrupt


But..... you are acknowledging they are corrupt, no?

And who had the bigger incentive and payout than the guys who run the machine?
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:19 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Ziner wrote:
peeker643 wrote: I agree with the hippie analogy but, fuck, I'm glad to see anyone sit up and take notice of what's going and and have the ambition to want to better the situation or at least shine a light on something other than their text machines and x-box controllers. ;-) ;) :wink:


How about using some of that ambition to take your own life by the balls. All of these people think this mythical wall street boogie man is keeping them down. Fuck, we have a pretty damn big safety net in this country regardless of what Democrats say. It is not perfect and people slip through the cracks, but these people take little responsibility for their own lives. I can promise you if I were on unemployment for 99 weeks with nothing promising I would be starting my own damn business. Had a long discussion with my dog walker, She was formerly a brand manager and she said it was her dream job, she got laid off. Sick of looking in a down market she started her own dog walking business and she said she loves it and it appears she is doing quite well. Not everyone has the education, and I get that it is surely hard to find the 9 to 5er, but dog walking does not require a PhD.


Z- there are plenty of 'dog walkers' who are democrats and there are plenty of small business owners on that side of life as well who have taken their own lives by the balls. Not only that, but we don't know the people individually. You have their goofy manifesto to go on and it is misguided in some ways, sure. But the point I'm making is I'm glad to see these people involved in whatever it way it takes to get them involved.

When people sought flight they didn't initially climb into the cockpit of an F-16. They peddled shit off of cliffs and died a thousand times. Let them make their stand. I'm not going to bitch about people not being involved and then criticize those who are because their philosophy differs from mine.

I thought this was an interesting read today: http://bit.ly/qPlUk8


The democrat comment was nothing more but a jab at their constant rhetoric that any reform is attempting to destroy the safety net, nevermind the fact that they are all going broke. In fact after talking with her, I am pretty sure she is a democrat. My comment wasnt about party, it was about attitude.

My point is I'd rather see jobless and down and out people out there working to better themselves instead of sitting down in a random park in NYC hoping that the momentum of this movement is going to skyrocket them in to a "living wage". It also comes from my general belief that pretty most protests are a waste of time. What is their end game, what really comes from this? A discussion about how Wall Street is holding these people down? Maybe I just don't get it, but that's my view, I don't think they have an end game and I do not see what is going to come from this.

I am not bitching about people not being involved, in fact, I'd prefer that they weren't involved in this pie in the sky fantasy. It appears to me they are waiting for someone else to save them.

btw that philosophy bs about people learning to fly was really cheezy. :thumb up:
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:26 pm

Ziner wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
Ziner wrote:
peeker643 wrote: I agree with the hippie analogy but, fuck, I'm glad to see anyone sit up and take notice of what's going and and have the ambition to want to better the situation or at least shine a light on something other than their text machines and x-box controllers. ;-) ;) :wink:


How about using some of that ambition to take your own life by the balls. All of these people think this mythical wall street boogie man is keeping them down. Fuck, we have a pretty damn big safety net in this country regardless of what Democrats say. It is not perfect and people slip through the cracks, but these people take little responsibility for their own lives. I can promise you if I were on unemployment for 99 weeks with nothing promising I would be starting my own damn business. Had a long discussion with my dog walker, She was formerly a brand manager and she said it was her dream job, she got laid off. Sick of looking in a down market she started her own dog walking business and she said she loves it and it appears she is doing quite well. Not everyone has the education, and I get that it is surely hard to find the 9 to 5er, but dog walking does not require a PhD.


Z- there are plenty of 'dog walkers' who are democrats and there are plenty of small business owners on that side of life as well who have taken their own lives by the balls. Not only that, but we don't know the people individually. You have their goofy manifesto to go on and it is misguided in some ways, sure. But the point I'm making is I'm glad to see these people involved in whatever it way it takes to get them involved.

When people sought flight they didn't initially climb into the cockpit of an F-16. They peddled shit off of cliffs and died a thousand times. Let them make their stand. I'm not going to bitch about people not being involved and then criticize those who are because their philosophy differs from mine.

I thought this was an interesting read today: http://bit.ly/qPlUk8


The democrat comment was nothing more but a jab at their constant rhetoric that any reform is attempting to destroy the safety net, nevermind the fact that they are all going broke. In fact after talking with her, I am pretty sure she is a democrat. My comment wasnt about party, it was about attitude.

My point is I'd rather see jobless and down and out people out there working to better themselves instead of sitting down in a random park in NYC hoping that the momentum of this movement is going to skyrocket them in to a "living wage". It also comes from my general belief that pretty most protests are a waste of time. What is their end game, what really comes from this? A discussion about how Wall Street is holding these people down? Maybe I just don't get it, but that's my view, I don't think they have an end game and I do not see what is going to come from this.

I am not bitching about people not being involved, in fact, I'd prefer that they weren't involved in this pie in the sky fantasy. It appears to me they are waiting for someone else to save them.

btw that philosophy bs about people learning to fly was really cheezy. :thumb up:


Thank you. The cheese comes easily for me. ;-) ;) :wink:

I'm paraphrasing but I just don't see it as a bunch of lost kids going to sit in the park and complain. I actually think this is a step toward accountability and growing up.

Expecting accountability when you feel wronged is easy. Being accountable when you're wrong is not.

This isn't going to fix or solve anything in and of itself. But IMO it's a step in the right direction and it beats the hell out of apathy.

I dig that ymmv.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:27 pm

My point is I'd rather see jobless and down and out people out there working to better themselves instead of sitting down in a random park in NYC hoping that the momentum of this movement is going to skyrocket them in to a "living wage".


Oh wow....

Did you ever consider that the reason some of those people are there is because there are no jobs for them to work?

Where you see 10,000 lazy hippie squatters in a park, I see 10,000 entrepreneurs who just need to go start their own businesses.

EDIT: And could one of those soon to be entrepreneurs please start a business that treats tarantula bites in the Columbus area? Just in case.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:35 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
it is Wall Street who are the only ones who are corrupt


But..... you are acknowledging they are corrupt, no?

And who had the bigger incentive and payout than the guys who run the machine?


I am acknowledging they were presented with some pretty fucked up incentives and they took them and would also acknowledge that there were surely people who are/were corrupt and profited from it. I already said that I have no objections with those people being prosecuted.

I have no idea who had the biggest payout on the aggregate. Real Estate agents selling houses to people they couldnt afford? Mortgage brokers selling people shit loans? House flippers who slap some paint on and make 50K? Homeowners who took out hundreds of billions if not trillions of value from their homes and blew it on vacations, cars and second homes from a real estate agent who flips homes on the side with a shit loan?

Wall Street wasnt even close to the only people to make and lose massive amounts of money. As to who made the most, I dont know, do you?

Someone takes out 200K from their LA house to buy a vacation condo in Vegas from a real estate agent who bought the property and paid a guy to renovate it with products from Home Depot and services of local contractors while using a mortgage broker who makes a solid commission from this deal working for a bank who peddles it off to Wall Street who sells it to investors clamoring for these new MBS's that are sure things because Freddie Mac sliced them in to pieces and an analyst at a credit rating agency rates them AAA so they would continue to get deals from them while the government is pushing the GSE's to improve home ownership and essentially giving them the full faith and credit backing from the US Government so they can sell them at a premium and Wall Street is the only breakdown here?

They are the only ones who made money from this shit? A ton of money was made by a ton of people, then it was lost because it was all a house of cards for a variety of reasons

It aint that simple man. It is a spider web of distorted incentives. Blaming Wall Street solely is ignorant to me. How that in any way is disputable blows my mind.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:37 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Thank you. The cheese comes easily for me. ;-) ;) :wink:

I'm paraphrasing but I just don't see it as a bunch of lost kids going to sit in the park and complain. I actually think this is a step toward accountability and growing up.

Expecting accountability when you feel wronged is easy. Being accountable when you're wrong is not.

This isn't going to fix or solve anything in and of itself. But IMO it's a step in the right direction and it beats the hell out of apathy.

I dig that ymmv.


Perhaps my most recent post demonstrates that, but my biggest issue is them demanding accountability from Wall Street only (at least from what i gather)

I am not opposed to accountability as long as it is correctly allocated.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:44 pm

Ziner wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
Thank you. The cheese comes easily for me. ;-) ;) :wink:

I'm paraphrasing but I just don't see it as a bunch of lost kids going to sit in the park and complain. I actually think this is a step toward accountability and growing up.

Expecting accountability when you feel wronged is easy. Being accountable when you're wrong is not.

This isn't going to fix or solve anything in and of itself. But IMO it's a step in the right direction and it beats the hell out of apathy.

I dig that ymmv.


Perhaps my most recent post demonstrates that, but my biggest issue is them demanding accountability from Wall Street only (at least from what i gather)

I am not opposed to accountability as long as it is correctly allocated.


I think they started there because it's an identifiable and central 'target' or at least an identifiable meeting place. I could be wrong and giving them credit where it's not in any way due. And I believe they understand the suck doesn't necessarily begin or end there. And again I could be wrong.

But for them to go visit that shady Missouri real estate agent or camp out in the parking lot of the junk mortgage broker in Gatlinburg, Tennessee wouldn't have the cache that Wall Street does.

I don't know. Maybe one of us is overstating their ambitions and/or one of us is understating them. It's probably, like a lot of things, somewhere in between.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:54 pm

Blaming Wall Street solely is ignorant to me. How that in any way is disputable blows my mind.


I don't think anyone is blaming Wall Street solely. They gambled big on really bad idea, they lost, and we footed the bill... welfare style. From politicians they bought too, which was just a great touch.

I honestly think this is light compared to what could be going on.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:56 pm

Gatlinburg Motto: "I hope you like cheap crap marked up really high, because we got lots of it!".
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Ziner » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:41 am

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
Where you see 10,000 lazy hippie squatters in a park, I see 10,000 entrepreneurs who just need to go start their own businesses.



Wait a second, this started out with you calling them hippies and me wishing they would focus their attention towards starting their own business if there are no other options, how did you turn this around?
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Ziner » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:44 am

peeker643 wrote:
I think they started there because it's an identifiable and central 'target' or at least an identifiable meeting place. I could be wrong and giving them credit where it's not in any way due. And I believe they understand the suck doesn't necessarily begin or end there. And again I could be wrong.

But for them to go visit that shady Missouri real estate agent or camp out in the parking lot of the junk mortgage broker in Gatlinburg, Tennessee wouldn't have the cache that Wall Street does.

I don't know. Maybe one of us is overstating their ambitions and/or one of us is understating them. It's probably, like a lot of things, somewhere in between.


Yeah, I dont know, I feel like you are giving them too much credit that they would focus on a central target. I think they believe Wall Street is the sole problem. I think they believe Wall Street is holding them down and if CEOs didnt make so much their lives would be better. Just my thoughts, could be wrong.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:45 am

Anybody got an email address for these guys? I really want to give them Dan Gilbert's address.

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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Ziner » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:53 am

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
Blaming Wall Street solely is ignorant to me. How that in any way is disputable blows my mind.


I don't think anyone is blaming Wall Street solely. They gambled big on really bad idea, they lost, and we footed the bill... welfare style. From politicians they bought too, which was just a great touch.

I honestly think this is light compared to what could be going on.



That's where we disagree. I explained that whole hypothetical scenario, all of those people were a part of that gamble. Everyone threw their money down on the table and just because Wall Street threw the dice that came up snake eyes doesn't mean they were the only ones gambling. The entire system was/is fundamentally flawed. And we did foot the bill, but from what I understand, and there is a lot of fuzzy accounting, most of it was paid back. Welfare doesnt get paid back does it?

Regardless of what could be going on, focusing on Wall Street instead of the system (which still exists in a pretty similar form and is here to stay) is just wasting energy.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:56 am

e0y2e3 wrote:Anybody got an email address for these guys? I really want to give them Dan Gilbert's address.

Occupy The Midget Fuckstick's Front Yard could be fantastic.



theinternet@theinternet.net

Or try 1-800-The-Internet

Ziner wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
Blaming Wall Street solely is ignorant to me. How that in any way is disputable blows my mind.


I don't think anyone is blaming Wall Street solely. They gambled big on really bad idea, they lost, and we footed the bill... welfare style. From politicians they bought too, which was just a great touch.

I honestly think this is light compared to what could be going on.



That's where we disagree. I explained that whole hypothetical scenario, all of those people were a part of that gamble. Everyone threw their money down on the table and just because Wall Street threw the dice that came up snake eyes doesn't mean they were the only ones gambling. The entire system was/is fundamentally flawed. And we did foot the bill, but from what I understand, and there is a lot of fuzzy accounting, most of it was paid back. Welfare doesnt get paid back does it?

Regardless of what could be going on, focusing on Wall Street instead of the system (which still exists in a pretty similar form and is here to stay) is just wasting energy.


You are one strange person.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby YahooFanChicago » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:57 am

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
Blaming Wall Street solely is ignorant to me. How that in any way is disputable blows my mind.


I don't think anyone is blaming Wall Street solely. They gambled big on really bad idea, they lost, and we footed the bill... welfare style. From politicians they bought too, which was just a great touch.

I honestly think this is light compared to what could be going on.



I think Ziner's house of cards point is extremely accurate and I honestly think there is a large part of the US population placing most of the blame on mortgage banks and "Wall Street". I think our politicians/Government feed the fire since it helps keep the spot light off of them.

CBT, you refer to the politician's and governement being "bought too" which I don't agree with unless I am misunderstanding your point. The politicians and government were knee deep in this shit since the very beginning. It was the politicians themselves who demanded in the late 90's that mortgage lending rules needed to be eased in order to enable the American dream of home ownership for the masses.

Could have been a well-intended aspiration by one of our former president's who pushed that concept or it could have just been a populist line to gain support I don't know. Either way it is what started the easy mortgage money in the first place. Not to mention the government benefited from this whole situation as much or more than those who Ziner pointed out. The Government was collecting stamp/transfer taxes on all the flips, resales, new titles, application fees for zoning permits, higher property taxes on higher assess values, income taxes on gains throughout the financial chain, etc.. Wall street didn't have to "buy them off". They were in it from day one and making a killing on it for almost a decade.

Why aren't the protests going loud and long in front of the whitehouse and capital hill? Why are the banks the primary scumbags that need to be protested against?

I would lead the protest if I weren't such an appathetic, moderate centrist.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby gotribe31 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:51 am

I hate hippies.
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Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Orenthal » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:49 am

They are a bunch of fucking losers. Going after the "Corporate Man." Try taking a bath, getting a haircut, and learning to speak without using "maaaaaan."

Blocking bridges? Oh the spin we'd here if the racist, bigoted, and homophobe Tea Party did something like of that nature. Or how about the groups backing this organic movement? We get to hear about the evil Koch brothers all day... Indolent and ignorant losers whose life choices are whether to buy or knit sleeping bags. Cause those corporate sleeping bags fund the SYSTEM. Love those demands. They should build retard island right next to libertarian island.

ETA
That's a pretty white looking crowd too...
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Orenthal » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:52 am

Oh, so civil...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/0 ... 97628.html

Like Hank Williams I'm about to use an analogy. What other fantastic movement prayed on youthful energy? I can't believe you guys are engaging this group seriously.

Of course its all police brutality in the HuffingPuffing piece. The quotes really indicate awareness... :lmfao:
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:03 am

Angry. Old. Man. Forum.

:-)

Now, about that Dan Gilbert thing, seriously, guy dealt subprime mortgages like cards for blackjack and is now buying all of the foreclosed on houses back in DETROIT.

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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:24 am

Orenthal wrote: What other fantastic movement prayed on youthful energy?


You must be talking about that failed movement to get the first black President elected.

Organizing thay type of movement could never be successful.

Good call. :thumb up:
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Orenthal » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:52 am

peeker643 wrote:
Orenthal wrote: What other fantastic movement prayed on youthful energy?


You must be talking about that failed movement to get the first black President elected.

Organizing thay type of movement could never be successful.

Good call. :thumb up:


I thought that was Independents, White men, and disaffected Republicans? Young people can't elect shit. In 2004 they were 17% of the vote, 2008 18% woooooooooooHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Hey look what it got us. But the awareness is awesome. Get more idiots involved.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:13 am

Orenthal wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
Orenthal wrote: What other fantastic movement prayed on youthful energy?


You must be talking about that failed movement to get the first black President elected.

Organizing thay type of movement could never be successful.

Good call. :thumb up:


I thought that was Independents, White men, and disaffected Republicans? Young people can't elect shit. In 2004 they were 17% of the vote, 2008 18% woooooooooooHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Hey look what it got us. But the awareness is awesome. Get more idiots involved.


So what other 'fantastic movement' did your post refer to? Or were you just throwing more shit at the wall and flipping your arguments to suit yourself? ;-) ;) :wink:

I really have the feeling that if this was 10,000 young republicans camped out in front of the White House calling attention to Obama's ineffectiveness you'd have no issue saying their involvement was justified and important. Or are you simply proposing apathy as a potential answer?

Bottom line, if we're talking about it others are talking about it. And discourse isn't a bad thing, even when it comes from the other party.

I think your issue actually lies with the number in the 2nd paragraph below. :nanner:

Between 22 and 24 million young Americans ages 18–29 voted, resulting in an estimated youth voter turnout (the percentage of eligible voters who actually cast a vote) of between 49.3 and 54.5 percent, according to an exit poll analysis released Nov. 4 by CIRCLE, a nonpartisan research center at Tufts University. This is an increase of 1 to 6 percentage points over the estimated youth turnout in 2004, and an increase of between 8 and 13 percentage points over the turnout in the 2000 election. The all-time highest youth turnout was 55.4 percent in 1972, the first year that 18-year-olds could vote in a presidential election.

Sixty-six percent of young voters cast their ballot for Barack Obama, the largest-ever showing for a presidential candidate in this age group.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Ziner » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:54 am

peeker643 wrote:
I really have the feeling that if this was 10,000 young republicans camped out in front of the White House calling attention to Obama's ineffectiveness you'd have no issue saying their involvement was justified and important. Or are you simply proposing apathy as a potential answer?


You couldn't find 10,000 young republicans that would have that kind of time on their hands... they'd show initiative and look for a job instead of waiting for Washington to give them one ;-) ;) :wink:

Besides Obama has been ineffective.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:23 pm

Ziner wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
I really have the feeling that if this was 10,000 young republicans camped out in front of the White House calling attention to Obama's ineffectiveness you'd have no issue saying their involvement was justified and important. Or are you simply proposing apathy as a potential answer?


You couldn't find 10,000 young republicans that would have that kind of time on their hands... they'd show initiative and look for a job instead of waiting for Washington to give them one ;-) ;) :wink:

Besides Obama has been ineffective.


Ha! I know you're partly kidding with that first part, but I could provide you right now with a list of people I personally know who recently graduated, are conservative and can't find that 'living wage'. My suggestion to them has been to simply start a successful small business with no money and more difficult credit terms. I've also suggested they ask their parents for the cash as surely their folks' annual salary increases and burgeoning 401ks allow for such discretionary personal loans. ;-) ;) :wink:

And reiterating my point that Obabma has been ineffective with italics and bold letters doesn't change the fact I already said he's been horrifically ineffective. :salute:

Part of the accountability of shining a light on what you believe are issues is that people can see you too. Get people talking, get people involved and then worry about what they're talking about and shaping/narrowing the issues down.

Why not?
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Orenthal » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:29 pm

Not even close. Obama was a transcendent figure that inspired youth. He was hope, change, and the seminal moment to move beyond. He was a blank slate that allowed people (mostly youth) to project their greatest aspirations for this country. He was the man of the Greek columns and airy rhetoric. Hardly what these fools represent. Obama was inspirational.

No these youths want to destroy the "system" corrupted by the "man". They are the type of youth that need a boogeyman. The type of youth preyed on by the people I was alluding to in my first post. Hank Williams Jr. could point you in the vacinity, but you'd have to go one step further to get to real deal, Il Duce.

I'll be the first, or right there in support, to call out the Tea Party when their rehtoric and actions are this hollow. Have you missed the fact I loathe the "figures" who have jumped the shark on the TP movement. Beck, Palin, Bachman, blowhard O'Reilly and his "folks"?
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Orenthal » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:30 pm

Oh and there is a big difference in me calling them fucking losers, and me saying they can't air their issues. I have ZERO problem with them letting the man have it, higlights the lunacy of their views.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Ziner » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:43 pm

Orenthal wrote:Oh and there is a big difference in me calling them fucking losers, and me saying they can't air their issues. I have ZERO problem with them letting the man have it, higlights the lunacy of their views.


I didn't even call them losers and certainly never said they couldn't protest, I just wanted to laugh at their ridiculous demands and misdirected anger.

Debt forgiveness is awesome though, very realistic goal.. I know I know Peeks, people had to crash their planes before they flew.

and damn those credit agencies for reporting those missed payments. Bastards.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Ziner » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:44 pm

Maybe Peeker is just filling that centrist voice JB left. I wonder how Mongolia is this time of year.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Orenthal » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:26 pm

Hey its just an extension of the Arab Spring right?
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:31 pm

Z- you're not effing stupid so don't play the game. There are people affected by the credit crisis who never missed a single payment and who won't find a loan waiting for them because of the more closely guarded access to credit now. And there are people out there who have missed a payment because someone in the family lost a gig or maybe had hours reduced. Come on. One if the reasons JB left is because of stupid, narrow shit like that. The half truths and defensive arguments built solely on convenient stats or portions if them.

OJ- I really don't care what motivated that age group to vote. Not a bit. The point is SOMETHING inspired them. I don't care if it race, youth, hatred for their parents, whatever. Something caught their interest and amongst all the idiots motivated some bright minds will undoubtedly emerge on both side who will refer to the 2008 elections as their motivation when they hold office in 20 years.

You guys can rail on about their uselessness and their jacket sack tendencies. As someone who actually has kids and someone whose seen the same, tired shit for 44 years, yeah, I'm glad a bunch if kids are upset and willing to get involved in some way.

All due to respect to you both, and I've never voted democrat in my entire life, your responses IMO are part if the problem with politics today. I don't why we have to put those folks down as opposed to convince them with our actions that the right side is the right side.

You guys can invoke JB all you want. God knows I did because JB simply wasn't what he claimed to be politically. I'm tired of politics and put downs as usual. Maybe it's because if what's being created for my kids. Or maybe it's just boring and futile and doesn't get us anywhere. We're all talking. At least they're out there doing. However misguided.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Ziner » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:57 pm

peeker643 wrote:Z- you're not effing stupid so don't play the game. There are people affected by the credit crisis who never missed a single payment and who won't find a loan waiting for them because of the more closely guarded access to credit now. And there are people out there who have missed a payment because someone in the family lost a gig or maybe had hours reduced. Come on. One if the reasons JB left is because of stupid, narrow shit like that. The half truths and defensive arguments built solely on convenient stats or portions if them.


I am not playing stupid. I am pointing out how absurd their demands are. You can argue the finer details of a credit agency but for their demand to be that they be outlawed? You can't be that stupid. There is no half truth or defensive arguments in that discussion. Baby, bathwater, all that jazz.

Credit should have always been closely guarded!!! Aren't they bitching about huge risks? There are reasons people have bed credit ratings, they are bad credit risks. Regardless of the reason. If I have a history of not making payments to OJ because I have cancer or lost my job are you going to lend me a thousand bucks? Come on dude, there are plenty of things to debate. But this is absurd. Its a shitty situation when people get bad credit because of shitty situations, but what is the alternate proposal that is remotely reasonable? Cause this isnt. Hell I am not sure what the rules are at the moment, but it wasn't long ago that you could get an FHA mortgage 2 years out of bankruptcy. That is absurd.

These occupiers want credit available for all, regardless of credit ratings, out of one side of their mouth and then want Wall Street not to take big gambles out of the other. Connect the two for me please.

There is absolutely nothing narrow or stupid about that. If anyone has been one of common sense around here it has been you, please don't tell me you can put those two opposing views together in to one coherent, sensible platform.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby Ziner » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:00 pm

peeker643 wrote:
All due to respect to you both, and I've never voted democrat in my entire life, your responses IMO are part if the problem with politics today. I don't why we have to put those folks down as opposed to convince them with our actions that the right side is the right side.


FTR I voted for the democratic governor of Colorado and will absolutely vote for Obama if Perry or Bachmann win the nomination. I put their demands down because they are unreasonable and completely not viable solutions to what they perceive as injustices. Not because they probably voted for Obama. Don't go JB'ing this shit.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:15 pm

Ziner wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
All due to respect to you both, and I've never voted democrat in my entire life, your responses IMO are part if the problem with politics today. I don't why we have to put those folks down as opposed to convince them with our actions that the right side is the right side.


FTR I voted for the democratic governor of Colorado and will absolutely vote for Obama if Perry or Bachmann win the nomination. I put their demands down because they are unreasonable and completely not viable solutions to what they perceive as injustices. Not because they probably voted for Obama. Don't go JB'ing this shit.


I'm not JB'ing anything.

You guys are pissed off about the kid's first word being 'fuck' when I'm thrilled that the kid just started talking.

I put no zero credibility in what they are saying. They are young and ignorant in many regards. But I love the fact they're saying something. And that it's now newsworthy. And that people are talking about it. And that it has you, me and OJ talking about how credit should have always been more closely protected vs. how there's limited available funds for new businesses and entrepenuers and how it's fucking hard out there right now.

It's fucking hard out there right now. Not just for them. For the majority of us.

But yeah, out of the populus (most of whom ARE idiots) some will emerge from that mass as leaders down the road. And I'm telling you now some (repubs and dems) will refer to this lazy-ass sit in as the reasons they got interested. Mark it down.

That's all. 99% of what they want or 'demand' may be ridiculous.

But it got you to post this thread. And now we're talking.

Funny how it works. ;-) ;) :wink:
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


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