Cleveland Browns & The NFL

by **mistero** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:58 am

60 passing attempts ...3rd and short with no inside runs. This offense has no place for Hillis , none. We no longer run the ball. This is the time in a new coaching regime where all the valuable players from the past regime lose their shine.

Trade Hillis to the Cowboys. Jerruh would love another razorback. Get your 2nd rounder and wait for April.

How can you justify giving him a new contract,one that he will sign, when he's no longer in the offense?

Seriously, the trade deadline is coming and he makes no sense for this team.

by **Prosecutor** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:09 pm

Steven Jackson carried the ball 330 times for the Rams last year, averaging 3.8 ypc. I would not say there is no room for a running back in this offense.

Hardesty cannot be trusted to stay healthy. After Hardesty we have an undrafted rookie free agent from a Division II school.

Trading Hillis for a 2nd round pick would be a very risky move. The passing game is not working right now. Until it does, which may take some time, the Browns should have a balanced offense with Hillis playing a major role.

by **noles1** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:32 pm

This Hillis situation is going to be the on-going story of the bye week. The organization has backed itself into the corner by handing out gift extensions to Gocong and company, while neglecting to deal with the Hillis situation and if anything making it 1,000,000x worse with the leaked information and strep incident.

Now Hillis coming back at the staff on what his role is...

And Rizz talking about trading Hillis is beyond stupid. He's making a fool of himself.

by **peeker643** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:17 pm

This team is uneven and yesterday was maddening.

But let's step back and not make excuses but talk facts.

Hillis relied a ton on Vickers and Steinbach last year. Both or either would alter an assignment to get him a crease. Vickers would break off a block in one hole when he saw a better option elsewhere. Steinbach would provide a cutback to the left side on plays designed to go right.

McCoy and Hillis trusted these guys implicitly.

Now you have Marecic and Pinkston who haven't the experience and maybe the talent to assist like that.

Shitty decision? I think so. But blame the guy that made the call and not the guys who have to suffer from ts consequences on the field.

No offseason, no OTAs and shortened camps in terms of practice time. For areally young team and a team that switched philosophies and a lot of key personnel on both sides of the ball.On a team where really young rookies or really young vets now man key spots.

It may ultimately end up a square peg/round hole deal. It may.

What I know for sure is there's no way in hell the vast majority of us can know today how it will end up after only 8 -10 weeks now.

No way.

I hate watching this team on days like yesterday. I said it and wrote in my column. They made me sick and the unwillingness to either call or look for deeper routes is a loser in the NFL.

But this offense and regime is in its infancy. You can be upset it for sure. We all are. But you can't argue it, though I'm sure some will try.

by **Spin** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:20 pm

Prosecutor wrote:The passing game is not working right now. Until it does, which may take some time, the Browns should have a balanced offense with Hillis playing a major role.

Key word there, should.

If you're not going to use him, trade him while his value is still high. I agree with you he should be the workhorse of the team, he could open up the passing game if he played.

But if he doesn't fit in whatever screwed version of the WCO puppetboy was using yesterday, get something for him. Maybe a starting NFL receiver...

by **gotribe31** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:37 pm

Having the bye week early in the season could really help. Hopefully, an additional week of reps can help out Colt in particular and the offense as a whole.

Also, they should teach Usama Young how to tackle at some point in the next 10 or so days.

by **Prosecutor** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:45 pm

My hope is that after watching McCoy throw 61 passes and put 13 points on the board, Shurmer will be looking to balance the offense better from here on out, with Hillis being the workhorse and Hardesty as the change-of-pace. He ran Jackson 330 times last year, so he's not totally opposed to running the ball.

Also, it's clear from yesterday that Hillis is twice the receiver Hardesty is, so that's another reason he should be in if we're going to keep throwing to the TEs and RBs 70% of the time.

by **pup** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:47 pm

Prosecutor wrote:My hope is that after watching McCoy throw 61 passes and put 13 points on the board, Shurmer will be looking to balance the offense better from here on out, with Hillis being the workhorse and Hardesty as the change-of-pace. He ran Jackson 330 times last year, so he's not totally opposed to running the ball.

Also, it's clear from yesterday that Hillis is twice the receiver Hardesty is, so that's another reason he should be in if we're going to keep throwing to the TEs and RBs 70% of the time.

About Jackson running the ball 330 times. Look at their head coach. I would venture a guess that Spags insisted on running the ball at that clip. And Lil Fritz hated every god damn second of it.

by **mistero** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:11 pm

I don't think it's worth discussing what the Browns should do with their offense. They are going to in shotgun on first down and chuck it no matter who is in there.

We really should be proactive for once and move a player before we crush his value.

They are not trying to win games in 2011. They are force feeding the WCO and giving McCoy a longer audition.

Hillis has no future. Hillis on the Browns is like Eric Clapton on the Backstreet Boys. What's he going to do, sneak a riff in here and there and shake his ass in between?

by **Rat_Tail** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:35 pm

mistero wrote:Trade Hillis to the Cowboys. Jerruh would love another razorback. Get your 2nd rounder and wait for April.

If that actually happened it would be another big ::doh::

for the Browns. You're talking about the same team who gave up a 1st, 3rd, and 6th for Roy Williams.

by **bookelly** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:44 am

If we do trade him, A 2nd rounder is a horrible deal. ^^^

/I kinda agree we should. He and "coach" don't see eye to eye. This team is trying to tank. With an O-line in serious flux he's never gonna get touches. "coach" let Freudian slip with his remark about passing every down.

//btw - this new "coach" sucks. I've never seen dumber play calling. EVER. Bank it - Walrus takes over in two years and we re-re-re-re-rebuild. ::doh::

by **mistero** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:38 am

What do want for a guy with 1/2 year contract and only 1 year of production? Two first rounders? A second would be pretty good value.

by **motherscratcher** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:48 am

1. Hills does not equal Hershel Walker. We are not getting that deal.

2. Could we please stop trying to trade the few players we have left with talent? We need more not less. The dude was sick for a game and then misused for the next.

Freddie says relax

by **mattvan1** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:19 am

pup wrote:
Prosecutor wrote:My hope is that after watching McCoy throw 61 passes and put 13 points on the board, Shurmer will be looking to balance the offense better from here on out, with Hillis being the workhorse and Hardesty as the change-of-pace. He ran Jackson 330 times last year, so he's not totally opposed to running the ball.

Also, it's clear from yesterday that Hillis is twice the receiver Hardesty is, so that's another reason he should be in if we're going to keep throwing to the TEs and RBs 70% of the time.

About Jackson running the ball 330 times. Look at their head coach. I would venture a guess that Spags insisted on running the ball at that clip. And Lil Fritz hated every god damn second of it.

Agree with Pup. Can we please stop with the "Steven Jackson had 330 carries" bullshit.

Total carries by all Rams RBs in 2010 - 370
Total passes thrown by Braford (does not count drop backs that ended in sacks or runs) - 590

So attempts to carries is 61.45%, and from a play called in the huddle standpoint the percentage is higher.

Shurmur does not want a balanced offense. He wants to throw the ball. The sooner peeps accept this the sooner the healing begins.

by **LakeErieWarriors** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:54 pm

Unfortunately for Shurmur and the Browns win column, we passed the ball about 75% of the time. I cannot believe that the reason for this was the score. Run the damn ball more! Michael Jordan was a great defender, but that's not why he was on the Bulls.

by **pod2dawg** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:53 pm

What Peek said.

When your starters are rooks Pinkston vs. Steinbach and someone named Marecic vs. Vickers, Hopes hangigng on a newly restructured knee of Hardesty vs. Hillis; compounded by new coach , new system, work stoppage = disaster for Browns.

WE DON'T HAVE THE TALENT TO RUN ANY SYSTEM EFFECTIVELY. Misterio I appreciate the concept but have to disagree. We can't trade what few talented players we have.

Luckily for us the NFL will be forcing even us to spend money next year as they are instituting a "basement" payroll so maybe we will get some WR, OL, RB, LB, Safety, & DE help.

by **Cerebral_DownTime** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:15 pm

Is anyone buying this locker room drama going on with Hillis? I heard Spielman talking about it on the radio today, he said " I have never heard of any player missing a game due to strep throat... ever."

I believe he was sick. I don't think Peyton is the kinda guy who would sit out a game over a contract. FWIW......

by **peeker643** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:19 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Is anyone buying this locker room drama going on with Hillis? I heard Spielman talking about it on the radio today, he said " I have never heard of any player missing a game due to strep throat... ever."

I believe he was sick. I don't think Peyton is the kinda guy who would sit out a game over a contract. FWIW......

Guess we never really know these guys but if I had to bet my life on it I'd bet dude was sicker than a dog.

Just my $0.02

by **noles1** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:23 pm

After reading Hillis's agent quotes you can put me in the camp that there was more to the strep throat than originally met the eye. Apparently he went to ever meeting on Saturday and was in the plan for Sunday. Now his agent is contacting Bill Withers directly... What a mess.

I'm completely baffled by this situation at this point. If Hillis sat out because his agent told him to I'm beyond disappointed. My brain hurts just thinking about it all right now. I can't process this most recent turn in the never-ending saga that is the Cleveland Browns...

by **pod2dawg** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:10 am

Not to be a medical geek, BUT strept throat just ain't "a sore" throat. It can get real serious, real fast. We have no idea what the Doctors told Hillis +/or agent. I can tell you strept. bacteria produce poisons that can wreak havoc on various physiological systems. My .02 worth is all in on Hillis. I would error on the conservative side when dealing with "talent" on this team and health issues cause we'll need everyone we got down the stretch to win 6 games.

by **mistero** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:11 pm

From Grossi via Rotoworld

The Cleveland Plain-Dealer's Tony Grossi believes Peyton Hillis will request a trade ahead of the October 18 deadline.
Grossi says contract talks between the Browns and Hillis are "not going well," and that a trade request is likely the "next step." With the Browns having so few weapons on offense, it would seem unwise to move their feature runner, though it's become clear they have little interest in inking him to a lucrative long-term extension. With Montario Hardesty available as somebody who could immediately step into the starting lineup were Hillis to be dealt, it's at least within the realm of possibility he could be with a new club by this time next month. This is not a story that will be going away any time soon.

by **peeker643** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:12 pm

Here's what I know: everything was fine til Swerb put the fucking guy on the banner.

:hide:

by **The Owl** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:16 am

I think Shurmur will get Hillis 20 or more carries, and we'll be reminded what a beast he is.

Until McCoy, Hardesty, Little, Marecic and the oline is ready and seasoned - pounding Hillis is our best chance to score points and win football games.

Give the man a big 2-3 year contract, and go from there. If he wants a longer deal, overpay him for a shorter one and make him happy.

by **swerb** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:52 am

If you ever needed evidence that Shurmur is in over his head, yesterday's press conference is the OJ bloody glove.

Verbatim from Shurmur's presser yesterday ...

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-ce ... c48bca7db4

(asked about if Hillis was really hurt, Hillis visibly trying to get in game)

Yeah, you know, I think he was willing to come back in. I think, he, uhh, was injured. So at that point, you don't want to put a guy out there that doesn't have all his faculties. So, that's where, that's where it was.

(when asked if he was sent out on the field by coaches when he re-entered)

No, he just went in, he kinda ran back in there. Yeah, uh, and we knew, we knew that he was injured, and that he was, just as a last resort if he had to go in there. So that's what, that's what it was.

(asked if he/Shurmur is the one who subs guys in and out)

I call the plays, we have guys that substitute.

(then later, at 15:45 mark, Shurmur asked to clarify his earlier comments that Hillis ran on the field on his own)

He went back on the field, and we were aware he wentt back on the field. So. (pushed further) Just to pass protect, yes. Yeah. He didn't go out there on his own.

by **bookelly** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:51 pm

swerb wrote:If you ever needed evidence that Shurmur is in over his head, yesterday's press conference is the OJ bloody glove.

Verbatim from Shurmur's presser yesterday ...

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-ce ... c48bca7db4

(asked about if Hillis was really hurt, Hillis visibly trying to get in game)

Yeah, you know, I think he was willing to come back in. I think, he, uhh, was injured. So at that point, you don't want to put a guy out there that doesn't have all his faculties. So, that's where, that's where it was.

(when asked if he was sent out on the field by coaches when he re-entered)

No, he just went in, he kinda ran back in there. Yeah, uh, and we knew, we knew that he was injured, and that he was, just as a last resort if he had to go in there. So that's what, that's what it was.

(asked if he/Shurmur is the one who subs guys in and out)

I call the plays, we have guys that substitute.

(then later, at 15:45 mark, Shurmur asked to clarify his earlier comments that Hillis ran on the field on his own)

He went back on the field, and we were aware he wentt back on the field. So. (pushed further) Just to pass protect, yes. Yeah. He didn't go out there on his own.

WTF? - guy has lost his fans, his players, and his own fricking mind in 5 games.

by **StewieG** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:34 pm

I wish we would have offered him to Oakland for like 8 first round picks.

by **Spin** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:18 am

Does anyone else think Hillis blew his wad he first 3/4 of last season?

And he knows it, that's why the strong arm from the agent?

And the Browns know it, that's why they are done with him?

The last four games his yardage went 108, 59, 35, and 15. This year, only one breakthrough run.

by **motherscratcher** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:25 am

Spin wrote:Does anyone else think Hillis blew his wad he first 3/4 of last season?

And he knows it, that's why the strong arm from the agent?

And the Browns know it, that's why they are done with him?

The last four games his yardage went 108, 59, 35, and 15. This year, only one breakthrough run.

I don't think it's that simple. Last year the were a lot of factors. Mostly, he probably was just worn down and banged up. Also, I can't remember the schedule exactly, but I think the competition at the end was pretty good. And when the QB carousel stopes turning and landed back on Colt, teams had some tape on him and the weather was worse. Lack of a passing attack would have made it harder to run. A lot of things can go into explaining Hilliss last 3 games.

This year I think it boils down to lack of opportunity. Why he isn't getting the same opportunity is anyone's guess.

by **mistero** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:00 am

If we had any serious offers (and we'll never know) and didn't take one it was a giant mistake. Just like not dishing DA, Hillis' value is about done. The arrow is pointing down.

He's a nice Brandon Jacobs type guy....at best.

by **Fire Marshall Bill** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:27 am

When is someone going to connect the dots from McCoy's 2011 season so far to Hillis' lack of production?

Oh wait......I just did

:pop:

by **Gradysmanldy** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:07 pm

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:When is someone going to connect the dots from McCoy's 2011 season so far to Hillis' lack of production?

Oh wait......I just did

Cue SD ranting about how our running game would be fine if Colt didn't have a pussy arm.

Even sweet baby Breesus down in Nola has had his worst seasons, statistically, in years that the team wasn't committed to finding a balanced run attack. His super bowl winning year was one of the lowest pass attempts seasons, and one of his highest rated.

Not sayin' you HAVE to run the ball to be effective (see, see also: Rodgers, Aaron) BUT Colt sure as hell does.

by **mattvan1** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:23 pm

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:When is someone going to connect the dots from McCoy's 2011 season so far to Hillis' lack of production?

Oh wait......I just did

When is someone going to connect the dots from a lack of Hillis production to the fact that Shurmur wants to throw the ball and while he blah blah blahs about "balance" he does not emphasise the running game.

by **pup** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:52 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
Fire Marshall Bill wrote:When is someone going to connect the dots from McCoy's 2011 season so far to Hillis' lack of production?

Oh wait......I just did

When is someone going to connect the dots from a lack of Hillis production to the fact that Shurmur wants to throw the ball and while he blah blah blahs about "balance" he does not emphasise the running game.

I think I did that the day he was hired.

by **hiko** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:24 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
Spin wrote:Does anyone else think Hillis blew his wad he first 3/4 of last season?

And he knows it, that's why the strong arm from the agent?

And the Browns know it, that's why they are done with him?

The last four games his yardage went 108, 59, 35, and 15. This year, only one breakthrough run.

I don't think it's that simple. Last year the were a lot of factors. Mostly, he probably was just worn down and banged up. Also, I can't remember the schedule exactly, but I think the competition at the end was pretty good. And when the QB carousel stopes turning and landed back on Colt, teams had some tape on him and the weather was worse. Lack of a passing attack would have made it harder to run. A lot of things can go into explaining Hilliss last 3 games.

This year I think it boils down to lack of opportunity. Why he isn't getting the same opportunity is anyone's guess.

So you're saying he's the DA of Running Backs?

I'm going to throw out this crazy idea for his lack of production: He's been hurt/sick and the Browns have fallen behind in almost all their games?

I know, it's nuts.

by **General** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:28 pm

by **motherscratcher** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:36 pm

hiko wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:
Spin wrote:Does anyone else think Hillis blew his wad he first 3/4 of last season?

And he knows it, that's why the strong arm from the agent?

And the Browns know it, that's why they are done with him?

The last four games his yardage went 108, 59, 35, and 15. This year, only one breakthrough run.

I don't think it's that simple. Last year the were a lot of factors. Mostly, he probably was just worn down and banged up. Also, I can't remember the schedule exactly, but I think the competition at the end was pretty good. And when the QB carousel stopes turning and landed back on Colt, teams had some tape on him and the weather was worse. Lack of a passing attack would have made it harder to run. A lot of things can go into explaining Hilliss last 3 games.

This year I think it boils down to lack of opportunity. Why he isn't getting the same opportunity is anyone's guess.

So you're saying he's the DA of Running Backs?

I'm going to throw out this crazy idea for his lack of production: He's been hurt/sick and the Browns have fallen behind in almost all their games?

I know, it's nuts.

Shit! Is that what I'm saying? Damn, I didn't mean too.

by **peeker643** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:14 pm

Hillis re-injured his hamstring an hour ago and is probably done for 4-6 weeks.

Should be a fun Sunday against the Texans.

by **Spin** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:32 pm

Fast forward to 0:17

by **LakeErieWarriors** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:54 pm

Further cementing the Madden Curse Saga is Peyton Hillis.

by **mistero** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:22 pm

Exactly like DA. You have a player with very brief over inflated value and a few foolish suiters who want to trade (Dallas both times??) and you stubbornly refused to deal.

Sheeeeeet. Every one of these Browns GM's suck balls. (mooning)

by **Magic Brownies** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:08 pm

Might as well put him on IR..... Fuck :dead:

what a sad fuckin joke this whole Hillis saga has turned into

by **swerb** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:33 pm

Next step for Hillis is to get caught in some alley on East 43rd with a crack whore.

The fall from glory has been quick and violent.

Madden Curse still kicking asses and taking names.

by **idoctribefan** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:31 am

And now there's this: "Hillis slowly losing support in Browns locker room".

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=A ... owns110411

Just a snippet....

More recently, Hillis annoyed teammates after joining third-string quarterback Thaddeus Lewis in a conspicuous competition to throw footballs off the crossbar of the Candlestick Park goalposts about 90 minutes before Sunday’s 20-10 defeat to the Niners. Hillis, who had aggravated the hamstring strain in a practice a few days earlier, supposedly was a game-time decision; the spectacle occurred while other Browns players were stretching and engaging in warm-ups; it was captured by CBS TV cameras and discussed on the broadcast.

“It was a bad look,” one veteran said, “and it did not sit well with any of us.”

::doh::

by **swerb** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:48 am

Sources say, Browns sick of the drama, set to release Hillis at seasons end:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.s ... lis_9.html

by **peeker643** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:18 am

swerb wrote:Madden Curse still kicking asses and taking names.

Hillis a victim of the Madden Curse??

Please.

The Madden Curse is the punk-bitch of the TCF Banner Curse.

by **Larvell Blanks** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:04 am

Been out of town for a week training for a new job and the team crumbles in that time period.

Obviously Hillis is not the blue collar, hard working US Steel type of player Browns fans were hoping he'd be. His teammates are starting to see the same thing. Browns fans were hoping for the second coming of John Riggins and they got Tommy Vardell 2.0.

by **LakeErieWarriors** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:48 pm

What options are the FO going to take? Offseason free agency? Offseason Trade? Draft?

by **municipalmutt** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:30 pm

Larvell Blanks wrote:Been out of town for a week training for a new job and the team crumbles in that time period.

Obviously Hillis is not the blue collar, hard working US Steel type of player Browns fans were hoping he'd be. His teammates are starting to see the same thing. Browns fans were hoping for the second coming of John Riggins and they got Tommy Vardell 2.0.

Maybe locking up the likes of a scrub like Gocong played a part in this fiasco? If Hillis was not part of the long term plan here then why didn't they get what they could for him when his value high? If he truly is part, then pay him and move on. Lots of blame here on both sides.

by **motherscratcher** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:55 pm

swerb wrote:Sources say, Browns sick of the drama, set to release Hillis at seasons end:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.s ... lis_9.html

Fuck, that means we gave away Brady Quinn for nothing.

by **bookelly** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:03 pm

We need a *facepalm emoticon. *thud :thud:

just doesn't do this justice.

Passive-aggressive behavior by both sides. Great way to operate a football franchise.

/ :pb:

sorta works.

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