YahooSports Publishes Miami Story

[e0y2e3]

Really gnati? That's whats straight? Admin, Coaches, Schools, Conferences, the NCAA,ESPN and the like all continue on the gravy train while no changes come for the players?

What a deal for the establishment.

Meh.

[JCoz]

Really gnati? That's whats straight? Admin, Coaches, Schools, Conferences, the NCAA,ESPN and the like all continue on the gravy train while no changes come for the players?

What a deal for the establishment.

Meh.

Meh to you. If they want to continue the status quo then the schools can start paying taxes on football revenue. Trim the other sports as neccessary.

[e0y2e3]

I got no issues there.

Just have spent too much time around D1 athletes to feel "bad" for them.

I don't know what the answer is, but those kids deserve anything but pity.

[JCoz]

It isn't about pity as much as it is hypocricy

[e0y2e3]

Meh to that as well.

Those kids all have $$$ in their eyes (over-generalization, but not as far from the truth as you would think) and the university is their only avenue to those NFL $$$.

They're getting high level career training for free, whether they get educated or not.

I don't think the system is perfect, but the vast majority of them care about the road to riches more than anything when they choose to go to school.

[JCoz]

Not talking about a 60/40 split E0, talking about a reasonable stipend. I used to say the exact same thing you just did. I'm not buying that anymore. And more to the point the shit obviously isnt a working model anymore.

Either you get rid of the rules that say players cant benifit from thier status or you increase scholly cash.

You dont want them to get "pity" and think the schools contribution is enough? Fine by me. Toss out the rules about benifits and let them get what others want to give them. They end up breaking the law as a result, then the law deals with them.

[e0y2e3]

Like I said, I don't know the answer I just know for 100% fact that they are there to use the school as much as the school is there to use them.

Not to mention how many Pel Grant absuses I've seen and everything else.

Athletes get Pel Grant's over their Schollies if they are poor and can get academic schollies and get overrewarded (I did this for a year) if they decide to work hard.

[JCoz]

I'm not saying they aren't doing that. But for the schools to make the kind of money they are making while saying you can't get a free round of golf or free tat, or even a fucking corndog is unjustifiable at this point.

[gnati]

reminds me of the original drafted version of TARP gnati.

If you only gknew...I wrote that one too.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Like I said, I don't know the answer I just know for 100% fact that they are there to use the school as much as the school is there to use them.

Not to mention how many Pel Grant absuses I've seen and everything else.

Athletes get Pel Grant's over their Schollies if they are poor and can get academic schollies and get overrewarded (I did this for a year) if they decide to work hard.

The Pell Grant is going bye bye.

[gnati]

Really gnati? That's whats straight? Admin, Coaches, Schools, Conferences, the NCAA,ESPN and the like all continue on the gravy train while no changes come for the players?

What a deal for the establishment.

I guess I am a management suck up...

Somewhere JB laughs his ass off (by the way, where the hell is he)

Frankly, I dont feel alot of sympathy for the players - they dont have to play college football, they are choosing to...if they don't like it, join a semi pro league for a couple years then go to the NFL. If they sign up, they gknow the rules going in. It is what it is.

and if you think tOSU writing a $10 million check (or whatever amount hurts enough), or Doug Archie writing a (fill in the blank, but make it hurt) check or Mike Garrett writing a (fill in the blank check, but make it hurt) is continuing the gravy train...I guess we just disagree. If they choose not to write the check, they are kicked out of the ncaa just like the player is...until they decide to pay up. It transfers to other schools, so Tressel would have to pay before he could take a job anywhere else doing anything within the ncaa...

[JCoz]

See my other responses.

BTW, for a team like OSU....what's thier athletic dept revenue? $100 million a year? Those BTN checks aren't getting smaller either.

[e0y2e3]

JB burned out of message board land and is only an emailer these days.

[gnati]

See my other responses.

BTW, for a team like OSU....what's thier athletic dept revenue? $100 million a year? Those BTN checks aren't getting smaller either.

then do it as a percentage of revenue...so that the little guy and the big guy feel it equally...

I am not going to get caught up in the amount, dont frankly care, someone come up with a formula so it hurts...that is the point.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

If you want to give them a few hundred bucks a week during the season, I got no beef with that. But I feel it has to uniform from school to school.

Star players are already the kings of the campus at just about every football obsessed university.

[pup]

Vince Wolfork got $50,000.

What kind of stipend is fixing that?

Just like they just did with TP, make the penalties carry over to the NFL. 4 games/season of eligibility you have left when you commit the penalties.

[furls]

NCAA rules re: amateurism are stupid. Let the kids pick:

Option A: Take a scholarship and be a slave to the NCAA's rules re: amateurism.
Option B: Walk on (refuse the scholarship) and take all the money you can make from whatever legal means by which you can get it. Want to do appearances at booster B-day parties for 5K, sure. Want to endorse a pawn shop on the corner of Lane and High street for $100.00, sure. Want to sign autographs at Tuttle Mall $5.00 a pop? Go for it. Just be ready to pay your tuition every quarter/semester.

You cannot solve this with a stipend. How do you decided who gets how much $$? Do all athletes get the same? That sounds pretty damn expensive. What makes anyone think that $2,000 more per month is going to make this stop? It won't. The only way that you will stop it is if you either team with the NFL (ala Pryor) or stop criminalizing the non criminal behavior.

The about it, right now we are all up in arms over college kids partying on a yacht with hookers. So what. What about that kid from Florida last year that was suspended by Meyer for a couple of games for threatening to "kill a bitch?" Where is the outrage over Florida's 30 arrests a couple of years ago? That is actual criminal behavior and the players get a one game suspension. Sell your shit, that is a 5 game suspension. These rules are fucking stupid.

[danwismar]

Paying stipends to players is a (pick one) Pandora's Box...slippery slope...

Set up a system where potentially millions of dollars in cash changes hands between athletic department officials and student athletes.

What could go wrong?

And how could you pay football players and not pay the members of the women's rowing team and every other sport, mens and womens...and in equal amounts too. Fairness...equality...Title IX...and all that.

---

Back to the Yahoo-Miami story...the reason I jumped in here...

Here's an article by a Miami U-based blogger, it appears...questioning the Yahoo investigation tactics...the strength of their evidence and corroboration etc. The guy makes some decent points that the case isn't quite as iron-clad as it appears on the surface. Worth looking at for a different perspective...consider the source, of course...lots of detail...long....

http://allabouttheu.wordpress.com/2011/ ... is-claims/

[mattvan1]

Vince Wolfork got $50,000.

What kind of stipend is fixing that?

Indeed. Here's $200 a month kid. Just stay away from the strip clubs, blow jobs on the yachts, and abortions when you knock up some bitch. All your teammates will be doing those things, but you're getting a stipend, so in your case no means no.

'Course, as Gene Smith told us, those young men "are just trying to feed their families"

[mattvan1]

---

Back to the Yahoo-Miami story...the reason I jumped in here...

Here's an article by a Miami U-based blogger, it appears...questioning the Yahoo investigation tactics...the strength of their evidence and corroboration etc. The guy makes some decent points that the case isn't quite as iron-clad as it appears on the surface. Worth looking at for a different perspective...consider the source, of course...lots of detail...long....

http://allabouttheu.wordpress.com/2011/ ... is-claims/

Interesting read.

Let me think about it.

Ok, I have decided to treat this story the way the rest of College Football Nation treated the tOSU story.

Fuck the U. Dirtiest program in history.

[The Score]

---

Back to the Yahoo-Miami story...the reason I jumped in here...

Here's an article by a Miami U-based blogger, it appears...questioning the Yahoo investigation tactics...the strength of their evidence and corroboration etc. The guy makes some decent points that the case isn't quite as iron-clad as it appears on the surface. Worth looking at for a different perspective...consider the source, of course...lots of detail...long....

http://allabouttheu.wordpress.com/2011/ ... is-claims/

Story has some points on some of the corroboration angles, however it totally glosses over things like the Marve evidence, or Bryce Brown, just because they have already been "cleared" to play. With all due respect to Cecil Newton and others, just because you've been cleared to play doesn't mean there isn't still a smoking fire there.

[JCoz]

The about it, right now we are all up in arms over college kids partying on a yacht with hookers. So what. What about that kid from Florida last year that was suspended by Meyer for a couple of games for threatening to "kill a bitch?" Where is the outrage over Florida's 30 arrests a couple of years ago? That is actual criminal behavior and the players get a one game suspension. Sell your shit, that is a 5 game suspension. These rules are fucking stupid.

I completely agree with that, and this was one of the biggest things I'd talk about when discussing the OSU "outrage" with people. PSU has had plenty of legal issues, and Florida's and many others are well documented.

But nobody gives a fuck about that.

We only care about the senator *gasp* LYING -holy fuck the entire WORLD IS FUCKING CRUMBLING! - and a handful of players getting paid for signatures or a free tattoo.

Meantime, and that's a perfect example, Furls, Rainey's pounding on the door of his girlfreinds place texting her "time to die bitch" and he's back for LSU game to help a struggling FLA running game, and that blows over in a week, and few outside of LSU were talking about it. IIRC.

Irrational bullshit with not a hint of perspective.

[JCoz]

Paying stipends to players is a (pick one) Pandora's Box...slippery slope...

Set up a system where potentially millions of dollars in cash changes hands between athletic department officials and student athletes.

What could go wrong?

And how could you pay football players and not pay the members of the women's rowing team and every other sport, mens and womens...and in equal amounts too. Fairness...equality...Title IX...and all that.

---

Back to the Yahoo-Miami story...the reason I jumped in here...

Here's an article by a Miami U-based blogger, it appears...questioning the Yahoo investigation tactics...the strength of their evidence and corroboration etc. The guy makes some decent points that the case isn't quite as iron-clad as it appears on the surface. Worth looking at for a different perspective...consider the source, of course...lots of detail...long....

http://allabouttheu.wordpress.com/2011/ ... is-claims/

I read this this morning. Quite a bit of the writers logic doesn't hold up point to point IMO, and I will say that it's becoming clear that Shapiro's girlfriend is probably the main corroborating witness for much of what Shapiro is saying.Obviously haven't met her, but unless she's harboring some ill will against the university, I could see how she could lend quite a bit of credibility to what a bitter felon is saying in cases where he didn't have pictures.

The writer is also operating from a stance right off the bat of trying to shrug off talk about a Death Penalty, and that it wasn't "really" 72 players worth of rock solid, undeniable proof.

I really dont care if that's the case, and most likely he's correct, what I think is clear and I dont think he refutes in the slightest, is that there is more than enough here to make it bigger and more widespread in regards to what is provable, than any case in my lifetime.

[leadpipe]

All this about "reasonable stipends".....If that was all it was about it would already be problem solved. Cause there ain't too many D 1 football/basketball players walking around without money - no matter their background. There's a good bet that any campus you walk onto the football player has more cash in pocket than the 40 year old who's been in a career for 20 years.

It's greed beyond that which causes the great majority of issues. And no "McDonalds money" is going to change that. There's waaaay too much money involved in the sports as a whole for agents and boosters not to be able to easily exceed what the University would give them.

I'm with Eo here. Hard to feel bad for guys getting a free ride - and all the other stuff that comes with it. (what's the monetary value on hand picked classes and instructors? as a minor example of a perk) A great deal of them are using college and the NCAA just as much as the NCAA is using them.

This isn't much different than Unions and the Welfare systems. The argument against these things would be much weaker if not for years of certain individuals rampant abuse.

[JCoz]

All this about "reasonable stipends".....If that was all it was about it would already be problem solved. Cause there ain't too many D 1 football/basketball players walking around without money - no matter their background. There's a good bet that any campus you walk onto the football player has more cash in pocket than the 40 year old who's been in a career for 20 years.

It's greed beyond that which causes the great majority of issues. And no "McDonalds money" is going to change that. There's waaaay too much money involved in the sports as a whole for agents and boosters not to be able to easily exceed what the University would give them.

I'm with Eo here. Hard to feel bad for guys getting a free ride - and all the other stuff that comes with it. (what's the monetary value on hand picked classes and instructors? as a minor example of a perk) A great deal of them are using college and the NCAA just as much as the NCAA is using them.

This isn't much different than Unions and the Welfare systems. The argument against these things would be much weaker if not for years of certain individuals rampant abuse.

Again, I have a hard time understanding the point that its about "pity" I sure as fuck don’t feel SORRY for athletes. I think the amateur rules are ridiculous and outdated with regards to todays cash flow situation. Pity has absolutely DICK to do with this. At this point, Major College Football is a tax-evading racket, that needs to be re-evaluated by both the government and if they are smart, the NCAA.

[e0y2e3]

I think you really are missing something here JCoz:

These guys are taking payoffs in the thousands upon thousands of dollars, merchandise, etc.

No one can replicate that on a stipend level.

A small stipend is nothing more than a pity action, throwing a shitty ass dog biscuit to a dog and telling it it’s steak. Like telling them, we’ve got your monthly McD’s trip covered because we feel bad about how hard you work!!!

[pup]

Our government wasting more time looking into professional sports! Yes, that is exactly what this country needs.

What is the total revenue of tOSU football program for one year?

[e0y2e3]

Things I agree w/ the gov't looking into re: college sports - taxing them

Things I don't agree w/ them looking into "WE NEED A PLAYOFF!!! RECRUITING VIOLATIONS ARE BAAADDD!!!"

Which is more likely to get looked into: DIE BCS DIE!!!!

Also, has anyone bothered to read the NYTimes article I linked? I mean the NCAA knows about all of these allegations and pretty much said the death penalty and TV death won't happen.

[JCoz]

Our government wasting more time looking into professional sports! Yes, that is exactly what this country needs.

What is the total revenue of tOSU football program for one year?

Close to 100 million.

EDIT- I should do some homework before shooting from the hip on this - I THINK its probably less than 100 million, because that is what the athletic budget is IIRC, and no other sports make money, but some contribute to the revenue, but I do think its a relativly small % of the total revenue.

[JCoz]

I think you really are missing something here JCoz:

These guys are taking payoffs in the thousands upon thousands of dollars, merchandise, etc.

No one can replicate that on a stipend level.

A small stipend is nothing more than a pity action, throwing a shitty ass dog biscuit to a dog and telling it it’s steak. Like telling them, we’ve got your monthly McD’s trip covered because we feel bad about how hard you work!!!

Agreed, the stipend doesn't seem to be the solution. The rules need reworking.

[JCoz]

Our government wasting more time looking into professional sports! Yes, that is exactly what this country needs.

What is the total revenue of tOSU football program for one year?

Actually its exactly what the fuck our country needs, pup.

This wouldn't be the gov putting Clemons and Bonds on the stand about Steriods in baseball, its billions of untaxed dollars flying under the facade of amatuer sports.

[peeker643]

It isn't about pity as much as it is hypocricy

Pay them.

Let those that can work work, those that can make endorsement deals make them. God bless the American way.

But no more scholarships. If they can buy in or get loans for the $50k per at USC good for them.

No more free food or medical coverage either. And no more admissions preference, no more preferential scheduling, none of it.

They'll be like any other student, just like they want. With as much right to make money as any other kid on campus.

Let's do it. Let's see just how many make it in that system. Nothing could possibly be more fair than that.

[JCoz]

Things I agree w/ the gov't looking into re: college sports - taxing them

Things I don't agree w/ them looking into "WE NEED A PLAYOFF!!! RECRUITING VIOLATIONS ARE BAAADDD!!!"

Which is more likely to get looked into: DIE BCS DIE!!!!

Also, has anyone bothered to read the NYTimes article I linked? I mean the NCAA knows about all of these allegations and pretty much said the death penalty and TV death won't happen.

Yeah I saw that too. That just adds to insanity that was ESPN's coverage of Ohio State this summer.

It's so obsurd that you just kind of have to let it go, not because its right, but because there simply is no one that's going to do anything about it.

[pup]

Our government wasting more time looking into professional sports! Yes, that is exactly what this country needs.

What is the total revenue of tOSU football program for one year?

Close to 100 million.

EDIT- I should do some homework before shooting from the hip on this - I THINK its probably less than 100 million, because that is what the athletic budget is IIRC, and no other sports make money, but some contribute to the revenue, but I do think its a relativly small % of the total revenue.

And what is the total value of the scholarship money handed out per year?

[pup]

Our government wasting more time looking into professional sports! Yes, that is exactly what this country needs.

What is the total revenue of tOSU football program for one year?

Actually its exactly what the fuck our country needs, pup.

This wouldn't be the gov putting Clemons and Bonds on the stand about Steriods in baseball, its billions of untaxed dollars flying under the facade of amatuer sports.

Yes, tax them. So they raise the cost of tickets/memoribilia and the individual workers in this country pay more, but they make the exact same amount. Except at places like Average State University, where people will stop going to games because they are too expensive and it will kill not only a program but an entire athletic department.

Oh wait. These athletic programs will just take the hit? Awful nice of them. Too bad the rest of the athletic programs that get fed from football budgets will go by the way side. And thousands of deserving kids who play a sport other than football will no longer be able to get a scholarship, not go to college, and we will have the brightest group of ditch diggers in the world.

And with all those extra tax dollars, what will we do with them? Yep. Waste em, just like they do now.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Our government wasting more time looking into professional sports! Yes, that is exactly what this country needs.

What is the total revenue of tOSU football program for one year?

Actually its exactly what the fuck our country needs, pup.

This wouldn't be the gov putting Clemons and Bonds on the stand about Steriods in baseball, its billions of untaxed dollars flying under the facade of amatuer sports.

Yes, tax them. So they raise the cost of tickets/memoribilia and the individual workers in this country pay more, but they make the exact same amount. Except at places like Average State University, where people will stop going to games because they are too expensive and it will kill not only a program but an entire athletic department.

Oh wait. These athletic programs will just take the hit? Awful nice of them. Too bad the rest of the athletic programs that get fed from football budgets will go by the way side. And thousands of deserving kids who play a sport other than football will no longer be able to get a scholarship, not go to college, and we will have the brightest group of ditch diggers in the world.

And with all those extra tax dollars, what will we do with them? Yep. Waste em, just like they do now.

This^^^^!

They'll just pass the tax dollar loss off on us. The average ticket price for an OSU football game goes up yearly without the government taxing them..... and the sad thing is i'm ok with the current ticket prices. I love going to games.

[furls]

It isn't about pity as much as it is hypocricy

Pay them.

Let those that can work work, those that can make endorsement deals make them. God bless the American way.

But no more scholarships. If they can buy in or get loans for the $50k per at USC good for them.

No more free food or medical coverage either. And no more admissions preference, no more preferential scheduling, none of it.

They'll be like any other student, just like they want. With as much right to make money as any other kid on campus.

Let's do it. Let's see just how many make it in that system. Nothing could possibly be more fair than that.

^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^

Maybe they would appreciate the scholarships more if they were trying to earn their own way. 50K is a lot of money for a NCAAF Fresh to come up with. Think about how much $$ that could save the NCAA institutions. Every football schollie saved is really 2 schollies cuz they can cut the womens basketweaving team scholling required by Title IX.

[e0y2e3]

You guys have on serious disconnect, I came from a midd-class comfortable family and got mad aid and grant money after I transferred.

90% of these kids qualified for the Pel, they would qualify for near to or complete aid.

Endowments and tax money would end up paying them and they would be free to make scrilla from wherever and however they wanted.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

I'd bet within 5 years the number of Pell grants will be cut by 30-40%. There is also talk of smashing the OIG grant here in Ohio. I loved my Pell grant, I was able to get out of debt a fuck of a lot faster thanks to it.

[peeker643]

You guys have on serious disconnect, I came from a midd-class comfortable family and got mad aid and grant money after I transferred.

90% of these kids qualified for the Pel, they would qualify for near to or complete aid.

Endowments and tax money would end up paying them and they would be free to make scrilla from wherever and however they wanted.

Shoot it down after you announce your plan to fix the shit.

It's broken.

I offered up free market economy as a (radical, yes) solution knowing full well it will never happen not for tax or grant reasons but because of control issues and money grab issues.

You have every right to criticize IF you have an idea that will work or are fine with the status quo.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Hey, cuntface, why did you lock the other thread?

[e0y2e3]

Oh I already said I have no idea how to fix the disaster.

I'm just also pointing out that low income kids go to college for free....

[peeker643]

Hey, cuntface, why did you lock the other thread?

May have been the 25 complaints.

But more because you were enforcing your will and dominating it. Will not stand for that.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Hey, cuntface, why did you lock the other thread?

May have been the 25 complaints.

But more because you were enforcing your will and dominating it. Will not stand for that.

Fuck the complaints and the 25 shithead complainers.

Could you imagine if I was the President? That would be AWESOME......

[peeker643]

Hey, cuntface, why did you lock the other thread?

May have been the 25 complaints.

But more because you were enforcing your will and dominating it. Will not stand for that.

Fuck the complaints and the 25 shithead complainers.

Could you imagine if I was the President? That would be AWESOME......

That's why I wrote your name in.

But I may have confused you with the guy that writes the Charlie Brown comic strip.

Now quiet: Lockup Extended Stay is on MSNBC.

I'm transfixed.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Ohh sorry, I do not want to interrupt prison show time.

They only play the same fucking 3 episodes every weekend. MSNBC loser assholes.

Did you ever read the story about the French inmate who ate his cellmate's lung while the dude was still alive? He only got 30 more years.

[peeker643]

Ohh sorry, I do not want to interrupt prison show time.

They only play the same fucking 3 episodes every weekend. MSNBC loser assholes.

Did you ever read the story about the French inmate who ate his cellmate's lung while the dude was still alive? He only got 30 more years.

Maybe the guy offered him his lung.

You don't know. The french can be very cordial like that when that not busy being complete assholes.

And yeah, I have seen almost all of them. But nothing like falling asleep to the prisoner who, when he closes his eyes, has open eyes tattooed on his eyelids.

You don't get that everywhere.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Did you ever watch OZ on HBO?

(sorry to threadjack, just BSing with Peekerino)

[peeker643]

Did you ever watch OZ on HBO?

(sorry to threadjack, just BSing with Peekerino)

Loved it til guys from 90210 started showing up and getting sealed behind walls.

I bet you're a Schillinger fan.