A-Cab and Santana get in a spat?

[NH Tribe Fan]

I missed the first inning and didn't hear this referenced later in the game:

"- Shortstop Asdrubal Cabrera and first baseman Carlos Santana had to be separated in the Indians dugout in the first inning of Thursday's night's game against the Tigers."

http://danny-knobler.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/8590096/31265030

Hopefully this is just the national sports media making an issue out of nothing. If it's true, maybe Asdrubal is taking on a leadership role?

[peeker643]

I missed the first inning and didn't hear this referenced later in the game:

"- Shortstop Asdrubal Cabrera and first baseman Carlos Santana had to be separated in the Indians dugout in the first inning of Thursday's night's game against the Tigers."

http://danny-knobler.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/8590096/31265030

Hopefully this is just the national sports media making an issue out of nothing. If it's true, maybe Asdrubal is taking on a leadership role?

Yes. It happened. Neither would speak much to it afterward but Carmona had to separate them after Santana's half assed effort on the first play of the game.

Asdrubal told him basically, "You have to move and give up the base to keep that ball in play."

And he probably told him he was a lazy piece of mierda.

[bookelly]

I'm not sure, but I'm beginning to think Santana isn't a very good teammate. First C Perez in ST, now Droobs and Kipnis.

[RedDawg53]

I feel he's becoming a problem player. Especially with his lazy play and recently with the near miss with the Kipnis. I haven't seen the replay with AsCa. Kipnis with the long stare thinking wtf. Carlos just jogging away like no big deal, not saying a word to his fellow teammate. Is he becoming a version of a locker room cancer like Milton Bradley? Minus the obvious hate towards white people.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

What happened between him and Kip? I didn't see taht game.

[statmasta]

I missed the first inning and didn't hear this referenced later in the game:

"- Shortstop Asdrubal Cabrera and first baseman Carlos Santana had to be separated in the Indians dugout in the first inning of Thursday's night's game against the Tigers."

http://danny-knobler.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/8590096/31265030

Hopefully this is just the national sports media making an issue out of nothing. If it's true, maybe Asdrubal is taking on a leadership role?

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/video/ ... d=17926155

[GodHatesClevelandSport]

All b/c they wanted Lou Marson in the lineup.

[DrPoove]

Santana has been anointed since he was 17. Needs to grow up. AC learned his lesson after a shitty 2008 and demotion to AAA after his 2007 debut. He took that experience and grew from it. Hopefully Santana can take some constructive criticism and mature. We will see. I don't think it makes him a bad teammate he just needs to grow up.

But he still would not have called as good of a game a Lou Marson last night.

[StewieG]

Santana's future position is DH.

[Damage]

Let's give Santana a break here. It's his first time playing the position and he's essentially learning on the fly. I do agree that he is showing signs of being malcontent when it comes to fielding, but his bat more than makes up for it. However, if next year he continues to field like Mike Jacobs and refuses to hit anything other than a 4 or 2 seamer, it may be time for a demotion and/or decision on his future. I'm not suggesting a trade by any means, but if he is becoming a cancer, it could be the only option. Way too early to think about that though.

[Damage]

Here's a question I'll pose, stealing from a poster on my board:
Santana's catchers ERA is 4.14 compared to Marson's 3.76. Does that make up for the 100+ OPS differential between the 2?

[peeker643]

Here's a question I'll pose, stealing from a poster on my board:
Santana's catchers ERA is 4.14 compared to Marson's 3.76. Does that make up for the 100+ OPS differential between the 2?

No. And this is already being discussed in the Santana to 1B, Marson to C thread.

Everyone's a day late and dollar short on these issues. yesterday people were telling me I was full of shit regarding the kind of teammate Carlos is and the perception of him in his own clubhouse.

What changed?

What's your board url anyway Damage? Always like to see what our posters create.

[WiscTribeFan]

Here's a question I'll pose, stealing from a poster on my board:
Santana's catchers ERA is 4.14 compared to Marson's 3.76. Does that make up for the 100+ OPS differential between the 2?

It's actually closer to a 200 differential, but it's irrelevant since Santana is still playing while Marson is catching. You're not losing that output.

The comparison should be versus LaPorta, who would be the one losing playing time in this scenario. The OPS difference between those two is around 100, but I think replacing LaPorta with Marson is pretty much a wash when you take into account the ERA differential and defense he brings behind the dish.

[Dnthateonthepronk]

Finally saw the 1st play of the game. He didn't even show any effort to jump that high in the first place to try and get it. That play seemed like it had less to do with laziness( than some of his other plays) and more to do with fundamentals/ not playing the position. That being said a teammate needed to say something, not sure if most fundamental discussions turn into arguments but it appeared that the anger that had been festering from his other bonehead, arrogant actions came out in that spat with AC.

[peeker643]

Finally saw the 1st play of the game. He didn't even show any effort to jump that high in the first place to try and get it. That play seemed like it had less to do with laziness( than some of his other plays) and more to do with fundamentals/ not playing the position. That being said a teammate needed to say something, not sure if most fundamental discussions turn into arguments but it appeared that the anger that had been festering from his other bonehead, arrogant actions came out in that spat with AC.

He dropped the thrwo from Asdrubal the night before that was finally ruled an error on Santana and reduced the Jimenez earned runs from 3 to none.

Call it what you will: laziness, lack of concentration, arrogance, whatever. You can't have it when each game matters.

I don't care how few games he's played there, he was in position Wednesday night and simply lost focus on Asrubal's throw and Thursday night he could have kept that Chisenhall throw in play with basic effort. He didn't and, as you pointed out, he was rightfully admonished by Cabrera for it.

Whether it gets through or not is another matter entirely and really speaks to the other issues that have been talked about with Carlos. Hopefully he's getting the multiple messages he's receiving.

[skatingtripods]

Let's give Santana a break here. It's his first time playing the position and he's essentially learning on the fly.

If these are throws that he has to pick on the short hop, you might have a point. But they weren't. They were in the air and required next to no effort. A little stretch and that's it.


On the Chisenhall throw, he comes off the base on good throws. Why wouldn't he come off the base on a bad one?

[FUDU]

Here's a question I'll pose, stealing from a poster on my board:
Santana's catchers ERA is 4.14 compared to Marson's 3.76. Does that make up for the 100+ OPS differential between the 2?

No. And this is already being discussed in the Santana to 1B, Marson to C thread.

Everyone's a day late and dollar short on these issues. yesterday people were telling me I was full of shit regarding the kind of teammate Carlos is and the perception of him in his own clubhouse.

What changed?

What's your board url anyway Damage? Always like to see what our posters create.

http://www.damage.com/

[Cerebral_DownTime]

The fact Carlos would even argue with Asdrubal, tells me everything I need to know. Sit down, shut up, and listen to what the man is saying. I'm GLAD that half assed crap ain't gonna fly with A-Cab, that's what a leader should do, and he is clearly this team's leader.

[pup]

Almost as surprising as the discussion about the offense being good enough to hide Marson, we are now talking about Asdrubal being the man who gets into a teammates face for lack of hustle and general nonchalance?

What is next? Fausto diets? LaPorta hits? Once we got to the point I am reading about Grady Sizemore toughing out an injury, it will be full on Bizzarro World.

[cozmeesah]

Once we got to the point I am reading about Grady Sizemore toughing out an injury, it will be full on Bizzarro World.

Someone missed the past 3 years.

[Damage]

Here's a question I'll pose, stealing from a poster on my board:
Santana's catchers ERA is 4.14 compared to Marson's 3.76. Does that make up for the 100+ OPS differential between the 2?

No. And this is already being discussed in the Santana to 1B, Marson to C thread.

Everyone's a day late and dollar short on these issues. yesterday people were telling me I was full of shit regarding the kind of teammate Carlos is and the perception of him in his own clubhouse.

What changed?

What's your board url anyway Damage? Always like to see what our posters create.

Didn't read that thread. Was on vacation in Antigua for a while (Under any circumstances, don't ever stay at a Sandals resort)

My Board
http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dog_Pound/index.php?

Good luck trying to sign in/view it, as I messed around with the Admin functions one time and somehow disabled new members. I may have fixed it, but haven't tested it.
The site has been around since the ESPN boards turned to shit (so thinking 2004). Not many posters, but lot's of loyal guys. The main Indians dude on there is Dftnes. He knows his shit and, really, should contribute to this site, as he's too smart to just contribute to my shitty site.