8-10-11 Detroit Tigers @ Cleveland Indians-Lets goo

[statmasta]

Why are we talking so much about Santana?

He'll get better. He already has one of the best batting eyes in all of baseball (4th in the majors in walk rate). Everything else will come. He's young. Let's just enjoy tonight's victory.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Let's just enjoy tonight's victory.

That's impossible with the morose humps around this joint. Like black clouds hanging around.

[TribeinLA]

How cool is it watching the dugout congratulate Ubaldo? You can tell that everyone is just so amped to have him in the dugout. No one is amped to hear about Pomeranz striking out 10 at AA level or Jeanmar throwing a no-hitter in Columbus. THIS was the right move. The team is repsonding. They want this guy to play with them in October. Great stuff.

[scrambler]

Where you guys getting all this Santana is a jerk stuff?? Is it well documented that he is hated in the locker room? I am being serious about this, I honestly don't know and haven't heard anything at all about it. I do love a guy who walks 110 times a year though, I will say that!! Compliments to Jimenez, outstanding tonight...I had my doubts!

[statmasta]

Huge win. Big-time performance from Ubaldo. Extremely encouraging.

[scrambler]

This is our first series win since July 4-5-6...Yankees. Over a month. Unbelievable that we are still in this thing!!

[RedDawg53]

Good win. No bullpen, no problem

[Symbolic47]

Good game. Lets get em tomorrow. We owe Verlander a beating.

[peeker643]

Where you guys getting all this Santana is a jerk stuff?? Is it well documented that he is hated in the locker room? I am being serious about this, I honestly don't know and haven't heard anything at all about it. I do love a guy who walks 110 times a year though, I will say that!! Compliments to Jimenez, outstanding tonight...I had my doubts!

Don't need to blow it up. I don'r remember anyone saying he's a jerk. He can be hard to reach and motivate at times. And with all the catching experience on the staff he hasn't improved behind the plate.

He's one dimensional and you'd like to see a young, talented guy work on all aspects of his game, not just offensively.

But yeah, he's a special offensive player. Gifted.

[FUDU]

I'm just wondering why Kipnis isn't on the banner yet Dick, I don't know what the hell kind of unit you're running here.

[andrew6586]

Any chance that Kipnis gives us a Buster Posey-like spark like the Giants got last year? We already have a catcher who is better than he is anyway.

[peeker643]

Huge win. Big-time performance from Ubaldo. Extremely encouraging.

Yep. All of that.

Hoping Marson becomes the Jimenez caddy.

[statmasta]

Where you guys getting all this Santana is a jerk stuff?? Is it well documented that he is hated in the locker room? I am being serious about this, I honestly don't know and haven't heard anything at all about it. I do love a guy who walks 110 times a year though, I will say that!! Compliments to Jimenez, outstanding tonight...I had my doubts!

Don't need o blow it up. He can be hard to reach and motivate at times. And with all the catching experience on the staff he hasn't improved behind the plate.

He's one dimensional and you'd like to see a young, talented guy work on all aspects of his game, not just offensively.

But yeah, he's a special offensive player. Gifted.

He has special defensive tools as well. Cannon of an arm, quick release, quick feet, great athlete behind the plate. He just doesn't know how to play the position at a major league caliber level yet. Victor wasn't great when he first came up, either. He used to be lazy and just stab at balls instead of getting down to smother them, just like Carlos now.

I trust it'll come. It's annoying now, sure, but we have to try to stay patient with him (easy to say after a fun blowout win, though).

[peeker643]

Where you guys getting all this Santana is a jerk stuff?? Is it well documented that he is hated in the locker room? I am being serious about this, I honestly don't know and haven't heard anything at all about it. I do love a guy who walks 110 times a year though, I will say that!! Compliments to Jimenez, outstanding tonight...I had my doubts!

Don't need o blow it up. He can be hard to reach and motivate at times. And with all the catching experience on the staff he hasn't improved behind the plate.

He's one dimensional and you'd like to see a young, talented guy work on all aspects of his game, not just offensively.

But yeah, he's a special offensive player. Gifted.

He has special defensive tools as well. Cannon of an arm, quick release, quick feet, great athlete behind the plate. He just doesn't know how to play the position at a major league caliber level yet. Victor wasn't great when he first came up, either. He used to be lazy and just stab at balls instead of getting down to smother them, just like Carlos now.

I trust it'll come. It's annoying now, sure, but we have to try to stay patient with him (easy to say after a fun blowout win, though).

He's more gifted than Victor was (and Victor was never a really good defensive catcher even at his best- he got to 'average' for a while) but Victor was a leader and a guy that worked.

Hopefully Santana decides to make the effort. Just get the sense from the times I'm there that the org wishes the same thing while appreciating his offensive skills.

[Pressrunnr]

Jeremy Hellickson
Mark Trumbo

Between Pineda, Hellickson, and Trumbo, Kipnis has no shot.

True enough. Unless, of course, he played in New York or Boston. In that case they'd have his name on the trophy already, albeit unfairly given the trio you mentioned. No matter, he's with Tribe & that suits me fine.

[scrambler]

Where you guys getting all this Santana is a jerk stuff?? Is it well documented that he is hated in the locker room? I am being serious about this, I honestly don't know and haven't heard anything at all about it. I do love a guy who walks 110 times a year though, I will say that!! Compliments to Jimenez, outstanding tonight...I had my doubts!

Don't need o blow it up. He can be hard to reach and motivate at times. And with all the catching experience on the staff he hasn't improved behind the plate.

He's one dimensional and you'd like to see a young, talented guy work on all aspects of his game, not just offensively.

But yeah, he's a special offensive player. Gifted.

He has special defensive tools as well. Cannon of an arm, quick release, quick feet, great athlete behind the plate. He just doesn't know how to play the position at a major league caliber level yet. Victor wasn't great when he first came up, either. He used to be lazy and just stab at balls instead of getting down to smother them, just like Carlos now.

I trust it'll come. It's annoying now, sure, but we have to try to stay patient with him (easy to say after a fun blowout win, though).

He's more gifted than Victor was (and Victor was never a really good defensive catcher even at his best- he got to 'average' for a while) but Victor was a leader and a guy that worked.

Hopefully Santana decides to make the effort. Just get the sense from the times I'm there that the org wishes the same thing while appreciating his offensive skills.

I'd love to move him to first full time. IF the guy just hits .270-.280 he'll be one of the best offensive players in the game.

[peeker643]

Anyway, enough about Santana. My thoughts:

Jimenez looked a lot more comfortable and in command, much more dominant than his last outing.

Sure some of that is he'll get more comfortable every day and I'm convinced a guy like Marson helps. I won't be surprised if Jimenez mentions Marson in his postgame.

Great outing and exactly what the club needed. Chad Durbin inferred before the game that Ubaldo was on an island tonight and was going out there and absorbing innings no matter what. FotR guys relish that and respond. I'd say Ubaldo responded tonight and picked up his entire staff with it.

[scrambler]

I was all excited about Hannahan early in the year when he was getting some big hits and his defense needs no explanation...but I am now wondering with Donald called up now what the purpose of hannahan is?? I'm just not convinced a 9th inning defensive replacement at 3rd base serves much purpose. This team can be offensively challenged at times and when we call up Huff, I would prefer to keep Duncan on the roster rather than Hannahan. I'd can the guy Saturday.

[Dellucci TailGator]

With guys on third, it seemed like Ubaldo was throwing it in the dirt just to test Marson. It was an astounding display of blocking by Marson. A lot of trust had to be built tonight between them.

[Am I Here Again?]

Let's just enjoy tonight's victory.

That's impossible with the morose humps around this joint. Like black clouds hanging around.

I'm partying! You guys can join in!



Santana may have the tools but is he receptive to instruction? Don't know since I'm not in the dugout/clubhouse. But Alomar was a great catcher so the experienced coach is there. Marson has improved since he first came up from the minors. He's been up here less time than Santana? Don't remember, but I think that's right. I'm just hoping if Santana does have an entitled attitude since he came up with such fanfare and did so very well in the beginning someone needs to kick him in the somewhere. Then again, could his backslide all be attributed to his season-ending accident last year? So many questions, so few real answers.

[Dellucci TailGator]

I was all excited about Hannahan early in the year when he was getting some big hits and his defense needs no explanation...but I am now wondering with Donald called up now what the purpose of hannahan is?? I'm just not convinced a 9th inning defensive replacement at 3rd base serves much purpose. This team can be offensively challenged at times and when we call up Huff, I would prefer to keep Duncan on the roster rather than Hannahan. I'd can the guy Saturday.

First base defense. And insurance if you need to pull the plug on LaPorta for the season.

[TribeinLA]

Your wish may come true, Scramble. It's evident that Mannahan's purpose is now lost. I thought maybe they'd try him at 1b and possibly move LaPorta (even to AAA), but that's not happening. Hannahan may be cut before Kearns. There's just no need.

[Am I Here Again?]

Orioles beat the White Sux just now. We're 2 behind DEEtroit and the W-Sux are two behind us, 4 behind Detroit. Like the way things are moving right now. I'll be rooting for the Tribe/Orioles again tomorrow. And right now the Twinkies are ten back of Detroit, 8 behind us. We'll have a chance to bury them this weekend.

[Dellucci TailGator]

White Sox lose to Orioles on walk-off HR.

[peeker643]

Your wish may come true, Scramble. It's evident that Mannahan's purpose is now lost. I thought maybe they'd try him at 1b and possibly move LaPorta (even to AAA), but that's not happening. Hannahan may be cut before Kearns. There's just no need.

The problem (aside from LaPorta being none dimensional right now) is so many guys are one dimensional.

Kearns is superior defensively but isn't hitting, Duncan is suited to the PH role and spot start but is a slug defensively, Hannahan is gifted at either corner but can't hit, Santana is a terrific offensive player who seems to lack interest defensively, etc.

Donald is going to hit and back up the middle infielders. I think his development is critical because he's also capable of a spot start and backing up an OF spot or two as well.

If you cut Hannahan you're considerably weaker defensively on the corners. If you cut Kearns, Sloth or Carrera you're light in the OF if Brantley is hurt.

I don't see Hannahan going anywhere. They'll juggle and maneuver injuries, DL moves and remaining options and get through this season.

Every one of the guys mentioned is cheap too.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but how did no error occur on the play in the 4th between AsCab and Santana?

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Also, for the whole Santana/LaPorta thing at first base. Some of you will hate me for posting this but just to throw it out there Santana has LaPorta beat, and by a decent margin, in terms of defensive metrics at first base.

These same metrics also say that Marson is the 2nd best defensive catcher in baseball only behind Matt Weiters. Keep in mind Weiters has played 800+ innings and Marson is just shy of 400 and this metric is cumulative.

[Symbolic47]

Also, for the whole Santana/LaPorta thing at first base. Some of you will hate me for posting this but just to throw it out there Santana has LaPorta beat, and by a decent margin, in terms of defensive metrics at first base.

These same metrics also say that Marson is the 2nd best defensive catcher in baseball only behind Matt Weiters. Keep in mind Weiters has played 800+ innings and Marson is just shy of 400 and this metric is cumulative.

Yea Marson is a stud as a backstop, that much is certain. If he can become decent with the bat, hes starter material. We dont need any power out of him, just a .250 average would suffice. I would be totally ok going into next season with Lou as the main catcher, and Santana playing at first most of the time. If we dont get a bat in the offseason, I think this move makes alot of sense. Santana's bat will play at 1st, Im certain of that. If we can somehow get a 1st baseman in a trade or sign a stop gap(Lee) we keep what we got now. Regardless I cant stomach LaPorta anymore. I cant think of anybody who I have been more disappointing in than Matt in my lifetime. The fact that we traded a Cy Young winner for him didnt help him any.

[British_Pharaoh]

Best thing about this is getting into that already over worked bullpen.

From the Tigers perspective, that probably doesn't bother them that much since they know they're not going to need a bullpen tomorrow!

I don't know it's usualy feast or famine for us when we face Verlander (11-11 with an ERA near 5 in his career vs Cleveland.) We have mixed success against him. We either get 2 hit or we smack him around like a piñata

Even if you just look at the last 3 seasons Verlander has a 4.19ERA against Cleveland which is the second highest ERA against AL opposition for him and he is just 7-6 in that time frame. He also has trouble at The Jake (4.89ERA) where he is 3-4 since 2008.

However he is having a superhuman season.

Add all this to the fact Carmona has a healthy 8-4 3.48ERA record against the Tigers in his career and has a 2.75ERA over his last 3 starts (covering 19innings) and you ahve the makings of a pitching duel. Unless Verlander decides to have one of his Papier-mâché donkey hanging from a tree days and we tee off on him.

it's just too bad Brantley and his .538AVG vs Verlander won't be available to play.

[leadpipe]

Also, for the whole Santana/LaPorta thing at first base. Some of you will hate me for posting this but just to throw it out there Santana has LaPorta beat, and by a decent margin, in terms of defensive metrics at first base.

These same metrics also say that Marson is the 2nd best defensive catcher in baseball only behind Matt Weiters. Keep in mind Weiters has played 800+ innings and Marson is just shy of 400 and this metric is cumulative.

And this is a prime reason why defensive metrics need work. Cause good Christ, anyone watching every night.....

Look, yesterday's play - the one you're calling for an error on is an excellent example. A first baseman, with any semblance of an idea of what's going on, or maybe better put, more time an experience to work on the craft, makes that play easily. And it's not because he's "too short" cause the late great Billy Bardy makes that play with the proper footwork.

Waaaay too many plays from him - at both positions, that, while not being official errors, are hurting the team.

But this is important for the future of the team, cause if you're gonna put him at first, it can go two ways. He can work hard to get better there - and he needs to get A LOT better, or he can continue on the fast track to DH. And even if he continues to develop as a hitter, but winds up exclusively as a DH in a couple years, well, that's a guy that will have lost a ton of value - going from being your every day catcher to DH.

But really man, not sure what the calculator says, but I know what my eyes see. He's a hack at first right now.

[scrambler]

How about when Choo comes back next week? Do we send Carrera down? I think he is a much more useful player than Hannahan at this point. Really, Hannahan defensively at first?? This has happened not many more than zero times this year...as Hannahan is the defensive 3rd base sub...not first base. When Chisenhall first came up, Hannahan had some purpose still to play against lefties as many questioned Chisenhall against them, but with Donald in the fold, that purpose is out the window. If you're gonna rest Chisenhall against lefties, Donald plays--not Hannahan now. Guy has zero purpose. IF he doesn't go when Huff comes up, I really can't see him staying when Choo comes up next week especially with Brantley's injury, you need more outfield depth.

[Symbolic47]

I foresee Hannahan taking a trip down to Columbus. We will miss his defense, but hes just rotting away right now. I think Duncan is a more valuable piece for the stretch run. Hes a good pinch hitter who can run into one every now and then. Jack had a nice run, but I believe his days are numbered.

[peeker643]

Really, Hannahan defensively at first?? This has happened not many more than zero times this year...as Hannahan is the defensive 3rd base sub...not first base.

Is 7 > 0?

What about 27 > 0?

That's the number of games and innings Hannahan has played/subbed defensively at 1b.

And please don't tell me he's not the best defensive 1B on the club. I watch that displayed every day I'm down there for BP.

It's not even close.

Everyone is a GD keyboard expert. Whether they're in Oregon, Idaho, Oklahoma or Mentor. That's comforting that there's so much depth and knowledge from folks who don't actually see the workouts and BP sessions.

[peeker643]

What happens when Choo comes back depends entirely on what the deal is with Brantley at that time.

That was already stated. Try and keep up now

If Brantley is healthy Carrera will go back. If Brantley is dicey physically then it will be likely be Sloth at that point.

I guess Hannahan could be in danger if the Tribe, looking at how pathetic they already are defensively, just says, "Fuck it, how much worse can it be than this?" and decide to keep Donald as the only backup infielder.

Like I said, don't see it. Hannahan is the only IF on that team Acta (And AsCab) believes to above average defensively.

[gotribe31]

What happens when Choo comes back depends entirely on what the deal is with Brantley at that time.

That was already stated. Try and keep up now

If Brantley is healthy Carrera will go back. If Brantley is dicey physically then it will be likely be Sloth at that point.

I guess Hannahan could be in danger if the Tribe, looking at how pathetic they already are defensively, just says, "Fuck it, how much worse can it be than this?" and decide to keep Donald as the only backup infielder.

Like I said, don't see it. Hannahan is the only IF on that team Acta (And AsCab) believes to above average defensively.

Your utility INF bias is more apparent by the day. If it were up to you, we'd have Hannahan, Donald, Phelps as our INF, then sign Bill Hall and trade Santana and Kipnis for Jamey Carroll and Masterson for Eduardo Nunez.

[peeker643]

What happens when Choo comes back depends entirely on what the deal is with Brantley at that time.

That was already stated. Try and keep up now

If Brantley is healthy Carrera will go back. If Brantley is dicey physically then it will be likely be Sloth at that point.

I guess Hannahan could be in danger if the Tribe, looking at how pathetic they already are defensively, just says, "Fuck it, how much worse can it be than this?" and decide to keep Donald as the only backup infielder.

Like I said, don't see it. Hannahan is the only IF on that team Acta (And AsCab) believes to above average defensively.

Your utility INF bias is more apparent by the day. If it were up to you, we'd have Hannahan, Donald, Phelps as our INF, then sign Bill Hall and trade Santana and Kipnis for Jamey Carroll and Masterson for Eduardo Nunez.

But I wouldn't have Phelps anywhere near my club. He's all yours. Just be careful with him. He's fragile emotionally and might break if you're not careful.

This could all be moot once Donald becomes the Mark DeRosa- type guy I foresee him being.

That sure doesn't help the shit baggery of the infield defense but the Tribe should outslug their way past the errors.

[e0y2e3]

It's not Peeks fault he could never escape the traps of being a UIF in little league Al, so be nice. Can't imagine how tramatizing it would be to be a 12 year old defensive replacement UIF w/out any hair.

[peeker643]

It's not Peeks fault he could never escape the traps of being a UIF in little league Al, so be nice. Can't imagine how tramatizing it would be to be a 12 year old defensive replacement UIF w/out any hair.

Are my old scouting reports online or did you talk to my coaches? My dad is dead so I know he didn't blow the whistle.

Goddamn it. If my old man woulda coached I could have cemented myself at SS and been more than a uif. But at 5'3" 110 lbs in my junior year uif was all I had to make that club.

I did have hair though.

I didn't realize how cool the shaved head look was until after school and how wild it drove the chicks. Then I got smart and went this route.

[Symbolic47]

I for one agree with your assessment of Donald Peeker. Ive said as much many times this season. The guys bat will play. He can hit. Now whether he turns the corner into full time starter material is questionable, he should be a valuable piece the next 2-3 seasons. I'm a fan.

[Dellucci TailGator]

That play at first has been changed to an error today, Bastian Tweets. Ubaldo threw 8 shutout innings in terms of ERA.

[Symbolic47]

That play at first has been changed to an error today, Bastian Tweets. Ubaldo threw 8 shutout innings in terms of ERA.

Good

Random- I was up all night again, so I spent a good majority of that time reading the boards of our central competitors to gauge how they feel things are going to play out. Not something I normally do, but did find some funny stuff. The Detroit Scout board was melting down about yesterdays game. People are calling for Porcello's head, and they are wishing they got Ubaldo. Its good for perspective, as we all know we can get rather negative sometimes Not worth anything really, just found it amusing.

[scrambler]

Really, Hannahan defensively at first?? This has happened not many more than zero times this year...as Hannahan is the defensive 3rd base sub...not first base.

Is 7 > 0?

What about 27 > 0?

That's the number of games and innings Hannahan has played/subbed defensively at 1b.

And please don't tell me he's not the best defensive 1B on the club. I watch that displayed every day I'm down there for BP.

It's not even close.

Everyone is a GD keyboard expert. Whether they're in Oregon, Idaho, Oklahoma or Mentor. That's comforting that there's so much depth and knowledge from folks who don't actually see the workouts and BP sessions.

I never have one single time said he wasn't our best defensive 1st baseman. I simply said that is not what he is used for. And I said I don't think he needs to be on the team any longer either. If you think his presence is required to make a playoff run, that is fine and I just don't agree with you. 4 of his 7 games at 1st base came when LaPorta was on the disabled list. Surely you remember that?? No?? A 5th came when LaPorta started at DH against KC recently and a series of pinch hitting assignments and the lack of being able to put LaPorta there meant Hannahan went there. He is not on the team because of his defensive ability at first base. If you think that is not a fact you are not even a GD keyboard expert. THe pure simple facts are he was pretty much used at first when our starting first baseman was injured and when that starting first baseman started a game at DH. Facts are really tough to deal with sometimes. I understand your frustration. OK, we need Jack Hannahan's defense at first base desperately on this team.

[Symbolic47]

In the grand scheme of things I doubt it will make much of a difference who they send packing, Jack or Shelley. There are pros and cons to both of them. Lucky for us the offense is coming around, and the return of Choo is approaching. Thus making the choice even less important. I see both sides to the discussion, and both have validity. No matter what happens, I want Zeke to stick around as the 4th OF'r for the stretch run. He brings speed and bunting abilities to the table that nobody else on the current roster can match. Hell just send Kearns packing when Choo comes back and we can keep both of them on the roster so we all win.

[scrambler]

In the end me and peeker are arguing about whether the team needs a defensive replacement in teh 9th inning at 3rd base. I say no, he says yes, that's all it is. I simply see Jack Hannahan's 1st base defense as a non-entity in this discussion and I think the facts bear this out. If Matt LaPorta suffers a season ending injury, the discussion changes obvoiusly.

[peeker643]

Really, Hannahan defensively at first?? This has happened not many more than zero times this year...as Hannahan is the defensive 3rd base sub...not first base.

Is 7 > 0?

What about 27 > 0?

That's the number of games and innings Hannahan has played/subbed defensively at 1b.

And please don't tell me he's not the best defensive 1B on the club. I watch that displayed every day I'm down there for BP.

It's not even close.

Everyone is a GD keyboard expert. Whether they're in Oregon, Idaho, Oklahoma or Mentor. That's comforting that there's so much depth and knowledge from folks who don't actually see the workouts and BP sessions.

I never have one single time said he wasn't our best defensive 1st baseman. I simply said that is not what he is used for. And I said I don't think he needs to be on the team any longer either. If you think his presence is required to make a playoff run, that is fine and I just don't agree with you. 4 of his 7 games at 1st base came when LaPorta was on the disabled list. Surely you remember that?? No?? A 5th came when LaPorta started at DH against KC recently and a series of pinch hitting assignments and the lack of being able to put LaPorta there meant Hannahan went there. He is not on the team because of his defensive ability at first base. If you think that is not a fact you are not even a GD keyboard expert. THe pure simple facts are he was pretty much used at first when our starting first baseman was injured and when that starting first baseman started a game at DH. Facts are really tough to deal with sometimes. I understand your frustration. OK, we need Jack Hannahan's defense at first base desperately on this team.

It makes zero difference why he was there. None. The bottom line is that he's the best defensive CORNER infielder on a club that's poor defensively in at least 3/5 infield positions depending who's catching.

If the Indians see no value in that and are content to let him go that's fine. But he has one more defined skill and ability than Matt LaPorta has regardless of what you believe.

I don't care what they do with Hannahan. Many of the same game thread nut jobs that were blowing him when he was hitting in April/May/June have forgotten all about that now:

Re: 6/1/11 Indians vs. Blue Jays. Take the Series!
People make it sound as if Jack Hannahan didn't play this series? I can't even watch the games and even ESPN was showing his highlight reel stuff. Only the bad we see, only the bad we see, only the bad we see, nothing good, nothing good.

The guy is a good corner infielder. That's it. If the club values that more than they value maddening inconsistency on the offensive side and mediocre defense at 1B (the two plays Laporta butchered Tuesday night were horrifying) then Hannahan will have a spot.

And I know Chsnhl is everyone's prodigy and that Kipnis has taken the onus off Chiz's offensive struggles thus far but dude is hitting only.234/.284/.404

He's young, you run him out there, etc. But his offense is hardly making up for his defense.

Effective pitching is wasted by poor defense in most cases. Especially sucks to be submarined late in games protecting a one or two run lead.

I prefer Hannahan be here as a late inning defensive replacement. Also still why I prefer Kearns over Duncan personally. We're not talking starters. We're talking specialists late in games.

It's exactly what he'll be used for down the stretch if they stay in it. If they don't, drop his ass. That's fine.

YMMV

[scrambler]

IN the end you're probably right. It's fun to debate the board's top dogs!! I don't take it too personally at all. To be perfectly honest, you could probably argue Hannahan should be getting more starts at 1st than LaPorta as some aspects of his offense are actually better than LaPorta (OBP, etc). I view the team as offensively challenged and I think Duncan as a righty bat off the bench is more use than how Hannahan is presently being used.