2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

[OldDawg]

The issue isn't that TT won't be a player in the NBA,

Yes. This is the issue.

[e0y2e3]

FWIW: I'm done on this. I've made myself too angry about this stupid effing pick in this stupid effing draft. Done ranting until the next time the FO does something to piss me off. I can't talk myself into this pick, that is all I know and it's reached the point where I am talking myself into Vesely. This is bad. IM OUT.

[OldDawg]

FWIW: I'm done on this. I've made myself too angry about this stupid effing pick in this stupid effing draft. Done ranting until the next time the FO does something to piss me off. I can't talk myself into this pick, that is all I know and it's reached the point where I am talking myself into Vesely. This is bad. IM OUT.

You mean the 6'11 Vesely who has around a 50% FT% which is actually a better FT% than TT's?

[e0y2e3]

Vala signed his buyout today and will be a Raptor after one more year in Europe.

[swerb]

This is one of the greatest quotes ever, Chris Grant defending the Tristan Thompson pick:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... ingarrives

“We actually had him ranked much higher than fourth,” Grant said.

[OldDawg]

This is one of the greatest quotes ever, Chris Grant defending the Tristan Thompson pick:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... ingarrives

“We actually had him ranked much higher than fourth,” Grant said.

MUCH higher?
Higher than DWill?
Higher than Kanter?
Higher than Vala?

[OldDawg]

FWIW: I'm done on this. I've made myself too angry about this stupid effing pick in this stupid effing draft. Done ranting until the next time the FO does something to piss me off. I can't talk myself into this pick, that is all I know

I am not there yet. I can't let go.
This coulda/shoulda been a GREAT day to be a Cavs fan. Instead, I am in misery. And that is the point TMLP doesn't get. He had a golden opportunity to energize the Cavs fan base and he completely blew it. The true Cavs fans who couldn't wait for draft day are crushed.

I wish I coulda been in the war room... screaming at those guys trying to sell the TT pick.

I am just thankful the ping pong ball we traded for got us the #1. It was hard for the FO to screw that pick up. But that is lost in the ineptitude that followed.

[Orenthal]

This is one of the greatest quotes ever, Chris Grant defending the Tristan Thompson pick:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... ingarrives

“We actually had him ranked much higher than fourth,” Grant said.

MUCH higher?
Higher than DWill?
Higher than Kanter?
Higher than Vala?

Based on post presser, intro presser, and WKNR interview I think it was Irving, Kanter , TT. That is if you even believe GM spin.

[leadpipe]

This is one of the greatest quotes ever, Chris Grant defending the Tristan Thompson pick:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... ingarrives

“We actually had him ranked much higher than fourth,” Grant said.

Is it possible the Cavs have ANOTHER buffoon running the show?

Again?

Worst.

Organization.

Ever.

"Much higher than fourth"

Christ.

[swerb]

This franchise will never win anything under Dan Gilbert or his retarded puppet GM. You can take that to the bank.

Funniest part is, from the night of the Comic Sans Meltdown, to last night's disaster, every one of his flaws has been on display for all Clevelanders to see.

And the man is still revered by the vast majority of Cleveland sports fans.

[JCoz]

Maybe we can fire grant and hire Dewey Clark next.

[mikeperry]

So according to unknown ABJ reporter (good lord is this team covered poorly) the Cavs got scared about the buyout which by ALL ACCOUNT IS AGREED TO IN PRINCIPAL AND JUST NOT SIGNED and bitched out of the player we had rated higher.

Love to know where I read that before.

Jason Lloyd is some "unknown reporter from the ABJ" huh? He is not only the best Cavaliers beat writer in Cleveland with a lot of sources, he kicked the Ohio State football beat's ass for 10 years for the Morning Journal and News-Herald. When the national guys look for a beat writer to go on their radio show they call Lloyd.

Dude won more awards for his Buckeyes coverage than you can count and, with Pluto, is the best actual writer in the Cleveland area. The fact that you are willing to rip on Lloyd, along with your hard-headed refusal to admit you are anything but 1,000,000 percent correct and everyone else is an idiot, is very telling.

Yeah, Lloyd is a nobody. Right. Nice credibility.

[furls]

So I don't post much here, but here was what I was hoping for last night. I was hoping the Cavs would shock everyone and draft D. Will first and then draft Knight 4th. Gives the Cavs a forward and PG to start building their organization around. We didn't get much of a look at Irving this year, and I am not sure that there is a big enough drop off between Irving and Knight to justify passing on Williams.

I really don't like Euro bigs that much, at least not that early in the draft. TT was a WTF pick, I think he might have been the second best player from his own team in the draft.

[e0y2e3]

Yeah Furls, I wish we had taken a PG who had one of the worst TO ratios I have ever seen and is a certified chucker as well. Knight sure would have been sweet.

And D-WIll, the guy who comps most closely to JJ Hickson with range would have been worth it!!!!

Kyrie was the best player in the draft easily.

[e0y2e3]

Good on you Mike, I don't give a fuck about how long some cocksucker was on the OSU beat.

I know he is yet to provide any actual information worth dick on the Cavs and I highly doubt he magically translated his OSU sources into sources within the Cavs front office.

When you get done touching yourself and dreaming of the mythical OU-Toledo match-up you'll cover next year maybe you'll take the time to figure out who the connected NBA reporters are. In the mean time, bully on you for knowing random ABJ guy's bio.

WAR: KENT STATE - AKRON 2011!!!

Stick to what you know or just keep feeling yourself up while you eat everything the FO shoves down your throat, I don't really give a fuck but don't try and pretend like you actually have a clue WTF is going on with NBA reporting or that you actually followed what the FO did Thursday.

[e0y2e3]

This is one of the greatest quotes ever, Chris Grant defending the Tristan Thompson pick:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... ingarrives

“We actually had him ranked much higher than fourth,” Grant said.

MUCH higher?
Higher than DWill?
Higher than Kanter?
Higher than Vala?

Based on post presser, intro presser, and WKNR interview I think it was Irving, Kanter , TT. That is if you even believe GM spin.

No, this proves that he is spitting nothing more than GM spin. He took it so far it's absurd to believe a word of WTF is coming out of his mouth.

[mikeperry]

Good on you Mike, I don't give a fuck about how long some cocksucker was on the OSU beat.

I know he is yet to provide any actual information worth dick on the Cavs and I highly doubt he magically translated his OSU sources into sources within the Cavs front office.

When you get done touching yourself and dreaming of the mythical OU-Toledo match-up you'll cover next year maybe you'll take the time to figure out who the connected NBA reporters are. In the mean time, bully on you for knowing random ABJ guy's bio.

WAR: KENT STATE - AKRON 2011!!!

Stick to what you know or just keep feeling yourself up while you eat everything the FO shoves down your throat, I don't really give a fuck but don't try and pretend like you actually have a clue WTF is going on with NBA reporting or that you actually followed what the FO did Thursday.

You are a sad, pathetic little boy. That "cocksucker" you are talking about is a friend of mine, and we are all impressed with your keyboard tough guy personna. Why don't you swear a little more in your posts as well...nothing impresses like a few choice cuss words.

Maybe people would take you seriously around here if you didn't try to impress everyone with how in tune you are while showing off your amazing colorful vocabulary. Meanwhile, I should probably just talk to the grown-ups. Your ripping on the MAC is also impressive...I'm sure you won a lot of fans on here with that. So great job. Well-played. We can only aspire to be such a prolific message board poster. You're the cool guy in the room! Now make sure to drop a few f-bombs in your reply. Nothing exhibits intelligence like a few F-bombs!

[e0y2e3]

Chop Chop Mike, the world needs more articles about Bowling Green and Central Michigan!!!

[Prosecutor]

Mike, here's what your guy Jason wrote in his column. It's been posted already:

The Cavs were high on Valanciunas throughout the scouting process. Grant took two visits to Lithuania to personally scout him, and DraftExpress.com reported he was in Cleveland for a visit earlier this week.

But Valanciunas has a sticky European contract that was likely going to prevent him from coming to the NBA right away. The Cavs were willing to wait for him, but remained adamant they wouldn't take him unless they knew explicitly when he would be available.

Two hours before the draft, the Cavs still weren't comfortable with the terms of the buyout and ultimately shifted their focus to Thompson, who averaged 13.1 points and 7.8 rebounds while earning Big 12 Freshman of the Year honors.

Now Grant is saying they had TT ranked "much higher" than 4th and they went into the draft hoping to get both KI and TT. That was their "home run". So, if Lloyd's information is correct and the Cavs backed off Vala two hours before the draft, then Grant is flat out lying.

Was TT the target all along as Grant says or is Lloyd correct and the Cavs fumbled at the goal line? If it's the latter, there's no way Grant admits they wanted Vala but got scared off at the last minute because of his contract, especially when the contract problem apparently went away less than 24 hours after the draft.

Either way, we now have TT and the next order of business is to move JJ and Sessions for a 2 or 3. The Cavs have nobody who can create his own shot. Not TT, AV, Hickson, Eyenga, Gee, or Boobie. Maybe Jamison, but he's temporary. They'll have one play next year - Davis or Kyrie breaks down the defense and dishes to one of the bigs to finish or kicks it out to Boobie or Jamison for the 3.

All we can do now is hope Hollinger's analytics are right and TT is the 3rd best player in the draft while Vala is #12. But looking at TT's numbers against the better opponents and that ghastly free throw number that even Shaq would be embarassed about makes me have serious doubts about this pick. The Cavs worked him out against Kanter, though, so if Kanter totally kicked his ass I can't believe they would have still taken him at #4.

By the way, I completely agree with your assessment of Eeyore.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Now Grant is saying they had TT ranked "much higher" than 4th and they went into the draft hoping to get both KI and TT. That was their "home run". So, if Lloyd's information is correct and the Cavs backed off Vala two hours before the draft, then Grant is flat out lying.

Grant is flat out lying. "We had the Lithuanian stick rated higher, but we had a fear of getting Rubio'd so we went with the next guy on the list instead. Welcome to Cleveland, Tristan!"

ProBBallDraft said Vala took the one-year buyout with Toronto. That's not a good sign.

[peeker643]

Now Grant is saying they had TT ranked "much higher" than 4th and they went into the draft hoping to get both KI and TT. That was their "home run". So, if Lloyd's information is correct and the Cavs backed off Vala two hours before the draft, then Grant is flat out lying.

Grant is flat out lying. "We had the Lithuanian stick rated higher, but we had a fear of getting Rubio'd so we went with the next guy on the list instead. Welcome to Cleveland, Tristan!"

ProBBallDraft said Vala took the one-year buyout with Toronto. That's not a good sign.

He signed the buyout (as Lee noted earlier) less than 19 hours after the Cavs passed on him because they were afraid of the buyout.

The Cavs have proven for years that when you can't fuck something up they're okay (Daugherty, LeBron, Irving). It's when they actually have to make a call that requires a process and some basketball sense that they trip over their dicks. The apologists can tell me whatever they want. I've watched 1st round picks Keith Lee, Trajan Langdon, Randolph Keyes, Jonny Morton, Luke Jackson, Tim McCormack, Stewart Granger and I've watched The BoozerFiasco, Larry Hughes, Diop and DaJuan, the genius behind the Haywood, Charles Oakley and Jamal Crawford draft day deals, etc., etc., et al.

I won't even go into the Stepien-era stuff with polkas, guys eating can and his proposals to play home games all over the effing region.

Much like with the Tribe's run in the mid 90's, basketball didn't start here in 2003. That was the exception and the interruption to the suck and the incompetence.

Excuse me if I laugh at the "we had him much higher than 4th" shit and the head scratching selections/decisions.

I've seen it all before. It usually doesn't fucking end well.

[mikeperry]

Did the Cavs get scared off by the buyout? Possibly. But they could also have had TT rated higher than people think. And if they had them rated the same...and the choice was for either a player that will be here now or a player that might go all Rubio on them, they went with the pick they knew they could sign.

The thing all the people pissed at the Cavs are overlooking is that there probably is not going to be an NBA season, and the Cavs would not have missed out on anything by taking the guy with the buyout. However, I think Lloyd is correct and Grant is spinning a little...but that they could have rated these guys very similar. I am not ready to dismiss the pick and talk about how they blew it before the kid has played one second in the NBA. Draft analyists had Dwyane Wade rated behind Darko...so they are not always correct.

[e0y2e3]

For fucks sake, Lloyd is wrong. Flat wrong.

The buyout was agree to well before the drafts, 1 to 2 days before the draft. The only reason it wasn't signed before the draft is because the draft was in the way of the ink hitting the paper (physically).

This was, again, reported by anyone that actually knows their dick from their asshole and was then proven by the ink hitting the paper as soon as Vala's plain hit the ground.

Either the Cavs panicked about a buyout that was agreed to (Rubio didn't come street side for a variety of reasons, not the smalled of which was the T-Wolves pissing him off by grabbing two PGs) or they couldn't stand to have a guy sit for sure.

The only question that hasn't been sorted out is how much higher the Cavs had Vala than TT. Also how much improvement did TT get from his gawd damned wonderful interview with Gilbert.

The biggest plus is that Vala has plenty of questions himself and is not a sure thing. The biggest minus is that his ceiling his way higher and athletic 7 footers that like contract and have great motors don't grow on trees. Well that and the fact that we just got a guy whose ceiling is a less freakishly athletic Tyrus Thomas.

[e0y2e3]

And thanks for the Darko and Wade reminder Mike, RIVETING SHIT.

[papacass]

I come back here for the first time in like six weeks, and this is what I see: A 10-page thread, the last six pages of which are a total meltdown, ripping everyone in the Cavs organization from Dan Gilbert down to the waterboys because the Cavs took Tristan Thompson over Jonas Valanciunas.

Tristan Thompson.....over Jonas Valanciunas. Just meditate on that for a second.

They passed on a quasi-raw Lithuanian stick figure who can't play defense to take a Canadian college freshman who is only slightly more raw and can't play offense. And any way you want to dispute and twist it around, that's the reality for any NBA team's purposes. Dominating Eurobasket with 19 and 13 is the same as dominating the Nike Hoops Summit with a record 34 points. Nice little snippet for the scouting video, not really more. You just can't translate that to an NBA projection.

So did they pass on awesomeness to take the most craptacular top five pick since Darko, as is being insinuated here? Chances are not. The melters are building up Vala and tearing down Tristan (and the Cavs pick of him) to irrational levels. If you were going to give one 19 year old kid a chance, give the other 19 (OK, 20) year old kid a chance.

It's highly probable that both of these guys have a ceiling of "solid role player" in the NBA. This draft was just that bad. I understand the need for a legit 7-foot center. Heck, if I had my druthers, I'd rather have had Vala, too. But the end of the world? Cripes, lighten up. This thread jumped the shark about 40 hours ago.

[daddywags]

The only reason it wasn't signed before the draft is because the draft was in the way of the ink hitting the paper (physically).

This was, again, reported by anyone that actually knows their dick from their asshole and was then proven by the ink hitting the paper as soon as Vala's plain hit the ground.

Not sure what you mean by this. Vala was in NY the day before and the day of the draft. He was in Cleveland two days before the draft. He was in Toronto yesterday when it was announced that he had signed the buyout. How is it that location prevented him from signing it before the draft?

FTR: I'm trying to figure out what happened here, too, because I would have much preferred JV to TT at 4 even if we had to wait a year (or even two) for him to come stateside.

[e0y2e3]

I had assumed he flew back last night and signed it. If that isn't the case not sure if someone flew here or mailing official docs slowed it down, but I know it was agreed to a day or two before the draft.

[e0y2e3]

I come back here for the first time in like six weeks, and this is what I see: A 10-page thread, the last six pages of which are a total meltdown, ripping everyone in the Cavs organization from Dan Gilbert down to the waterboys because the Cavs took Tristan Thompson over Jonas Valanciunas.

Tristan Thompson.....over Jonas Valanciunas. Just meditate on that for a second.

They passed on a quasi-raw Lithuanian stick figure who can't play defense to take a Canadian college freshman who is only slightly more raw and can't play offense. And any way you want to dispute and twist it around, that's the reality for any NBA team's purposes. Dominating Eurobasket with 19 and 13 is the same as dominating the Nike Hoops Summit with a record 34 points. Nice little snippet for the scouting video, not really more. You just can't translate that to an NBA projection.

So did they pass on awesomeness to take the most craptacular top five pick since Darko, as is being insinuated here? Chances are not. The melters are building up Vala and tearing down Tristan (and the Cavs pick of him) to irrational levels. If you were going to give one 19 year old kid a chance, give the other 19 (OK, 20) year old kid a chance.

It's highly probable that both of these guys have a ceiling of "solid role player" in the NBA. This draft was just that bad. I understand the need for a legit 7-foot center. Heck, if I had my druthers, I'd rather have had Vala, too. But the end of the world? Cripes, lighten up. This thread jumped the shark about 40 hours ago.

I agree that both have issues, where I diverge is that Vala does have a much higher ceiling and isn't some sieve on D.

To me the issue is far less about prospects in this craptacular draft and far more about the mindset behind the FO. Not taking BPA on your own freaking board because of a one year buyout is pretty effing horrible.

It piles on w/ no TPE being used and it probably set to expire, no players dumped, etc.

Your point re: the prospects rings true (to a degree, you take it too far), but the establishment and execution of a plan here is the most vital aspect.

And come correct, we got an undersized guy that isn't an athletic freak and can't score.

[e0y2e3]

And Vala has played far better competition than TT including last year. He had some issues on rotations last year (19 for christ sake) and ass size in the post. Both things you expect playing at that high of a level at 19 (especially the rotations in the ball movement heavy Euro league).

[daddywags]

e0, you said you couldn't talk yourself into liking Thompson, but you've clearly been trying to talk yourself into liking Vala. Go back and look at some of the stuff you said (some in response to my tepid efforts to support JV) about him a month ago. Seems he went from a guy who "isn't really anything but tall" to a guy with mad upside pretty quickly.

[e0y2e3]

To be fair I came to terms w/ this draft being what it was. I wanted to go pure upside w/ the pick and wasn't going to argue if we grabbed any of the high upside guys with major question marks.

Vala's ceiling is as a Noah/Chandler type of center, something I covet and love and a risk I was willing to take.

I could have lived w/ pretty much anyone taken in the top ten aside from Knight, Kemba and TT at four. I had to shake myself and come to terms w/ this draft being what it was but I did.

Every single one of those other players had higher upsides.

I really can't shake how few 6'8" defensive specialists that can't score start at PF for NBA playoff teams.

By how many I mean none.

I'm a guy that like Ty Thomas too, but I can't get excited about drafting maybe him defensively w/ less athleticism and worse scoring (including a WAY worse FT%).

[leadpipe]

I come back here for the first time in like six weeks, and this is what I see: A 10-page thread, the last six pages of which are a total meltdown, ripping everyone in the Cavs organization from Dan Gilbert down to the waterboys because the Cavs took Tristan Thompson over Jonas Valanciunas.

Tristan Thompson.....over Jonas Valanciunas. Just meditate on that for a second.

They passed on a quasi-raw Lithuanian stick figure who can't play defense to take a Canadian college freshman who is only slightly more raw and can't play offense. And any way you want to dispute and twist it around, that's the reality for any NBA team's purposes. Dominating Eurobasket with 19 and 13 is the same as dominating the Nike Hoops Summit with a record 34 points. Nice little snippet for the scouting video, not really more. You just can't translate that to an NBA projection.

So did they pass on awesomeness to take the most craptacular top five pick since Darko, as is being insinuated here? Chances are not. The melters are building up Vala and tearing down Tristan (and the Cavs pick of him) to irrational levels. If you were going to give one 19 year old kid a chance, give the other 19 (OK, 20) year old kid a chance.

It's highly probable that both of these guys have a ceiling of "solid role player" in the NBA. This draft was just that bad. I understand the need for a legit 7-foot center. Heck, if I had my druthers, I'd rather have had Vala, too. But the end of the world? Cripes, lighten up. This thread jumped the shark about 40 hours ago.

No, the melters aren't "building up Vala and tearing down Tristan"

Re-read the thread. There's plenty of legitimate reasons some smell a rat.

Again, me, I hope Tristan becomes an all-star. I WANT to be wrong. But what I see now is a guy that very well may have been selected by the owner, a guy who Mike Mamulaed his way to this pick instead of earning it on the floor, and a guy who was drafted too high - in a draft that had 9,000 transactions going on during it.

I'd like someone to com out and tell me they loved the guy on the floor. Not some draftnik telling me how he killed in workouts and interviews. I want someone to tell me they LOVED something he did on the floor last year. I'm sure it's out there somewhere. I'm ready to listen - but there's far more talk of how he made his way to four after the season ended than during it.

And, oh yeah, I think the Cavs organization is perennially run by buffoons. And with an owner who becomes a bigger laughingstock in the league with each passing day, and his hand picked GM, well, sorry if I don't think they pulled a coup here.

If ya tell me it's going to be alright, fine. I've got 40 years of a bumbling mess that says otherwise. THIS front office is going to be the one. Christ.

Madre, after the King melted down in the playoffs said "some days it's like he never left"

Well, no, pretty much EVERY day is like he left. Warts and all they were relevant, and he wss so good it took years for them to screw that up. He's gone, 26 in a row, a cartoon owner and back to irrelevance.

[JJN]

I come back here for the first time in like six weeks, and this is what I see: A 10-page thread, the last six pages of which are a total meltdown, ripping everyone in the Cavs organization from Dan Gilbert down to the waterboys because the Cavs took Tristan Thompson over Jonas Valanciunas.

Tristan Thompson.....over Jonas Valanciunas. Just meditate on that for a second.

They passed on a quasi-raw Lithuanian stick figure who can't play defense to take a Canadian college freshman who is only slightly more raw and can't play offense. And any way you want to dispute and twist it around, that's the reality for any NBA team's purposes. Dominating Eurobasket with 19 and 13 is the same as dominating the Nike Hoops Summit with a record 34 points. Nice little snippet for the scouting video, not really more. You just can't translate that to an NBA projection.

So did they pass on awesomeness to take the most craptacular top five pick since Darko, as is being insinuated here? Chances are not. The melters are building up Vala and tearing down Tristan (and the Cavs pick of him) to irrational levels. If you were going to give one 19 year old kid a chance, give the other 19 (OK, 20) year old kid a chance.

It's highly probable that both of these guys have a ceiling of "solid role player" in the NBA. This draft was just that bad. I understand the need for a legit 7-foot center. Heck, if I had my druthers, I'd rather have had Vala, too. But the end of the world? Cripes, lighten up. This thread jumped the shark about 40 hours ago.

If I'm drafting someone I feel will be a role player, I'm going to grab the guy who isn't undersized and can hit a FT once or twice a millennium. I would have taken the kid who scores like crazy in the pick and roll over the kid who hardly ever played pick and roll, and can't score on post ups.

Vala has might go be able to start on a championship team some day. TT? No fucking chance unless he grows two more inches. And even then, probably not. JJ might be a knucklehead with frying pans for hands, but he can at least make the D respect him out to 12-15 feet. I don't care if he was their guy, it was a stupid fucking reach for a low ceiling pick.

[peeker643]

cavsdan Dan Gilbert
Two days later & even more excited about the two guys we selected fans going to love these guys.Wish you could have seen their workouts
5 hours ago

At least it wasn't about the workouts.

This draft is shitty enough to let this go. At least in terms of the actual player. But personally I'd rather have effing Jimmer. He has a discernible and transferable skill.

But for Polly and Anna to tell me the process is healthy is simply horseshit. Not enough delineation between owner and player personnel roles for my taste.

Can I prove it? No.

Does 40 years of seeing it happen give me an indication it's happening again? Yep.

Like I said. This draft blows which will likely be the cry of the apologist for years.
But if you're under the impression that this team is in good hands and has its shit together I think you're eggs are scrambled.

[Orenthal]

Guy was All Big 12 Defensive team and Big 12 Freshman of the Year. He did do some things on the court.

It's let it play out time now...

What are people always saying about judging drafts? 2, 3 years?

[peeker643]

Guy was All Big 12 Defensive team and Big 12 Freshman of the Year. He did do some things on the court.

It's let it play out time now...

What are people always saying about judging drafts? 2, 3 years?

Ah yes. Perspective time when people are critical. I nearly forgot about that TCF recipe.

Look, no one knows if Browns #1 Phil Taylor is going to be Haloti Ngata or Gerard Warren. But you understand what they did and why. There's no understanding why you go with a guy that can't shot or score and who you can't have defend in the last five minutes of a game for fear he might end up with the ball in his hand or on the line (God forbid).

If the choices suck because the crop of players suck, and you already had #1 in the pocket and got a guy you liked, why would you not take the guy whose floor is no lower than Thompson's but whose ceiling is much higher and who could prove exponentially more valuable because of it?

That's just stupid. Who cares if he's available next season when you'd prefer to blow again and get your hands on some guys from what people believe is the best draft class since '03?

Maybe it works out. But that doesn't mean they did the right thing and that the process isn't corrupt.

[daddywags]

Maybe it works out. But that doesn't mean they did the right thing and that the process isn't corrupt.

And maybe it won't work out, but that won't mean they did the wrong thing or that the process is corrupt, either.

Don't know if this has been posted already, if so, I apologize. But it's worth 1-1/2 minutes of time, IMO, to watch this short video of TT working out at John Lucas' gym. Lots of layups and dunks, but also a couple each of right and left-handed short jump hooks in the lane and at least two 10-15 foot turnaround jumpers that look pretty good formwise to me. After watching the abysmal Bismack Euro workout tape where he couldn't make a layup and airballed short jumpers, this guy looks positively Jerry West-ish. At the very least, it looks like he has raw offensive skills to work with.

http://www.examiner.com/nba-draft-in-na ... kout-video

[e0y2e3]

Bismack outperformed TT in head to head workouts in the US and showed way way way better than in his workout in Europe. Way way way way better. And he performed better than TT against better competition last year. And his ceiling is ten miles higher.

[JJN]

Know who else had great workouts? Darko.

[e0y2e3]

And again, your offensive skills never showed anywhere in actual college game tape. Even his biggest fans don't pretend like he is a potential offensive player. His ceiling is Tyrus Thomas without freak athleticism and any ability to shoot. Bully.

[daddywags]

Bismack outperformed TT in head to head workouts in the US and showed way way way better than in his workout in Europe. Way way way way better. And he performed better than TT against better competition last year. And his ceiling is ten miles higher.

Maybe so, maybe not. There was a lot of noise coming out about private workouts. You can believe what (or whom) you want. I still can't erase what I saw with my own eyes, though. Time will tell.

[Kingpin74]

The fact that the front office seemed to let a pretty concrete buyout screw up their draft board annoys me (thank God we have immediate help for a 50 game season, we'll go from a 24 to a 27 winning percentage).

But even if they actually had Thompson as best available at 4, I'm REALLY annoyed that they didn't play a little poker with it. You had 3-4 teams behind you that appeared to covet specific guys, you had a $14M trade exception to work with, and you had several midrange assets with reasonable salaries. I find it very hard to believe that they couldn't have picked up something by showing a spine, even if that meant taking Vesely or Valanciunas and staring someone down in trade talks. And if worst comes to worst, keep the freaking guy. We have a million needs. Bad draft anyway, right? Anyone who says they know Tristan Thompson was significantly better at that spot (even the basketball sages Grant and Gilbert) is lying. The basketball part of this aside, you have to read what each player's value is. To reach for Thompson at 4 and have nothing else to show for it is incompetence at its finest.

[Orenthal]

Guy was All Big 12 Defensive team and Big 12 Freshman of the Year. He did do some things on the court.

It's let it play out time now...

What are people always saying about judging drafts? 2, 3 years?

Ah yes. Perspective time when people are critical. I nearly forgot about that TCF recipe.

Stopped reading at this point.

1.)I could sense the rest would be oozing with like sarcasm.
2.)I don't have an apologist/critical viewpoint.
3.)I'm a CENTRIST.

It was a reach. How it happened can't discount what Lead, e0, and yourself feel about Gilbert/Grant/Cavaliers FO. Just doesn't really peg the meter as high for me as other past bumbles have, and I am not fully convinced it was a bumble inside the org.

Long story I don't really have an agenda outside I really wished they would have packaged assets to get Kanter, but I won't pretend I knew their board. The biggest negative I see is they reached a few spots in a weak draft, and didn't hold teams hostage for their coveted player.

The only TCF recipe I know of is how to get e0 off kilter, and Rich's gravy(sauce).

[Orenthal]

I do find it funny that they use "high motor" to describe TT. That is usually reserved for white guys...

[ajunior148]

Vala has might go be able to start on a championship team some day. TT? No fucking chance unless he grows two more inches. And even then, probably not. JJ might be a knucklehead with frying pans for hands, but he can at least make the D respect him out to 12-15 feet. I don't care if he was their guy, it was a stupid fucking reach for a low ceiling pick.

I'm quoting this because this is 100% true. If we had taken Vala at 4 and then bought a pick around 10-14 and taken TT no one would be upset. But at 4 and passing on Vala? Grant looks pretty bad here, even though he had TT rated "much higher" than 4.

[leadpipe]

I do find it funny that they use "high motor" to describe TT. That is usually reserved for white guys...

Or when grasping for a discernable skill.

[StewieG]

Re: Tristan Thompson...I was disappointed with this pick. I made no secret about that. I question whether he'll ever develop enough of an offensive game to be effective. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. That said, I hope he does. I'd really like to be wrong.

My biggest problem with drafting him at 4 was there were other guys, even in a bad draft, that had a much higher ceiling than he has. Vala was who I preferred, but I liked Biyombo too. I like Vala's pick and roll game, and I think he and Irving could have really developed a good pick and roll game together. I think Biyombo is a 1st team all-nba defender, potentially. I would have been fine drafting Thompson lower in the lottery, but I think he was a real reach at 4.

Re: Gilbert and Grant...IF what I think happened, happened...then I think it really sets a bad precedent going forward. If they passed on the player rated highest on their board because they wanted someone now, then it shows me that they care more about ticket sales than they do winning...when really, winning is the one sure way to sell tickets. If Gilbert overrode his scouts/GM, then he might as well sell now because there is no way this ends well. If they really, truly had TT as the highest rated player left on their board...well then bully for them. I don't agree with that. Not saying I'm right, I'm just saying I don't agree with it.

[e0y2e3]

Another thing to think about roster building wise right now is that only one team ib the playoffs is trying to build around both a defensive center and a defensive four. That team is okc and it is a huge gamble. TT does not have sergeant upside on top of that. Then you have to figure in the roughly two centers exist the can score from both mid and post range exist and that serge has a jumper at least you really have to wonder about how this team is ever going to build a playoff front court featuring him. I don't know if a center exists that compliments TT without a midrange game

[Orenthal]

^Has the extra pick going to Houston in the Flynn deal been mentioned yet?

[StewieG]

On the flip side, I think Kyrie's gonna be great. Just not in the same way Rose or Williams or Nash are great. He may never even make an all-star team.

Here's what I mean: He's a guy who hits the open jumper, can get into the lane, makes good decisions, and can defend. He's not the guy you build your team around (that guy should be coming next year, assuming we suck enough). He's the guy who makes the guy you build around better. He gets the team in to the offense and gives the ball to guys where they like it.

He's a championship caliber PG. He avoids the problems OKC had with Westbrook. His absolute apex is Chris Paul, but I don't think he'll score enough/get enough steals to live up to that. But, he doesn't need to. Look at what Paul did to the Lakers with bum knees and Aaron Gray as a center. That's the guy I think/hope Kyrie can be. A guy who shreds teams apart with his decision making.