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2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:34 am

pup wrote:
JJN wrote:
pup wrote:TT is better than JJ Hickson who is the only relevant PF on the Cavs.


Smaller than Hickson, less athletic than Hickson, way less offensive game than Hickson. Frankly, I'll need to be convinced that he is a better rebounder than Hickson is. College numbers say he isn't, even though JJ played less time.


Have you watched JJ Hickson play basketball? Drew Gooden is embarrassed to be compared to him intellectually.


Even if he was better than JJ, it would mean what exactly?

That he would then become the most "relevent" PF on a 60+ loss squad?.JJ Needs to be traded while people still think he holds some kind of value, IMO. His net worth is gonna sink quickly once the projections for his potential level off and people realize what we've got there. No offense to JJ.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:47 am

The point, more importantly, is that you shouldn’t be splitting hairs about differentiating the #4 pick (even in a weak draft) from JJ fucking Hickson.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby Orenthal » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:48 am

e0y2e3 wrote:
Orenthal wrote:That shit was changing by the minute. Just like Vala dropping, then not dropping, then getting passed by us, then getting picked by a team and GM that would not pick a Euro. There is only the fact it was a reach to just about every draft follower is certain. Like getting the future seconds. Gotta see what they do in the next seven days.


No it wasn't changing by the minute, the timetable is pretty damn easy.

Yesterday overreaction from all analysts dropped him. Today they got their senses back and the Cavs started abusing the phone lines to try and make it easier to convince Gilbert to take him.

Cavs made it very clear they loved him.

Cavs passed on him.

It didn't change by the minute at all, the only shift was from the initial buyout news to today.


Only Givony's mock and information had Vala that consistent. Amick had sources point to Thompson if Kanter was gone on Tuesday. Amick's sources also had us with Kanter ahead of Vala. The known is they passed on Vala so its either they had Thompson higher (Cavaliers claim) or it was a Gilbert inspired reach (e0's extrapolation (WHICH CAN BE 100% RIGHT)

One thing I do know. We have no idea if Kanter wasn't rated higher. WOOHOO PARTING SHOT.

Gotta see what they do with Hickson.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby Orenthal » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:54 am

e0y2e3 wrote:We bitched on picking the top guy on our board because he would have had to sit in Europe for a year.


Chris Grant says they take BPA as a rule, and that Thompson was the higest on their board. So I guess it comes down to group of credible reporters with unvarifiable information vs homers who suck off gilbert and grants teet.

I choose option 3. Let it play out.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:54 am

Woj had Vala the whole time.

Only Givony had him above Kanter (WHO GIVES A FUCK)

Amick had Thompson ahead for all of one day and that was only immediately after the buyout news.

AND THEY FUCKING TRIED TO TRADE BACK AND TAKE VALA OR UP AND TAKE VALA AND TT YESTERDAY <--- FACT

Stop being stupid.

Russillo and Ford's recap is up.

Russillo: "Look when I talked to Cleveland yesterday morning they mentioned how serious they were about the buyout being a problem"

For: "If that is why they made their choice they paniced"

Yes, some people in the org liked him because of analytics and Ford also says "I'm not saying that is the ultimate reason they took him" but some did like him on the advanced metrics.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:58 am

Orenthal wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:We bitched on picking the top guy on our board because he would have had to sit in Europe for a year.


Chris Grant says they take BPA as a rule, and that Thompson was the higest on their board. So I guess it comes down to group of credible reporters with unvarifiable information vs homers who suck off gilbert and grants teet.

I choose option 3. Let it play out.


There's not much else that Grant can say right now. It's not like he's going to come out and say they had 3 players above TT but Gilbert thinks we can win now.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:59 am

And if this team truly had a guy who isn't the most athletic defensive PF taken in the top 10, has no offensive game and has size issues as BPA because

"HE HAS A GREAT MOTOR AND A NICE LENGTH!!!!"

BPA because he has a nice motor at #4 in the draft? He's a great person making him BPA? Nothing Grant said adds up or defends him being BPA.

We have bigger issues than just Gilbert.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:04 am

I'm still lost as to how a guy with an undeveloped offensive game is part of a plan to win now. Thompson won't be seeing much of the court until the trade deadline at the earliest.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:08 am

Because they can play him and develop him as they choose next year.

It's not win now so much as it is be able to trot tangible players onto the court immediately to point to and say "LOOK AT HOW AWESOME A REBUILDING JOB WE ARE DOING!!!!!"

And I think the theory is that Irving will be so good off the P & R he'll get him chances to score.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:12 am

And can someone tell that dipshit Pros that drafting Eyenga when you have LBJ leading the team to 60+ wins and a second rounder on Sasha Fucking Kahn is irrelevant when discussing the #4 pick in the first post LBJ draft.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby Orenthal » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:16 am

I just find it odd that all those same reporters/analysts/scouts who had trouble with the Cavaliers mixed signals can be used to extrapolate the exactness of the Cavaliers board. There was enough conflicting information in my mind to make that exercise fruitless.

It was a reach based on analyst mocks, but in a weak draft with really only 2 sure fire slot picks what's really the difference. (It fits the Gilbert as evil POV)

You blasted me on Amick not being a scout, why even post Woj?

PS
That same group also said Toronto would not pick another Euro. Even in the mocks that had Vala slip, they were adamant Colangelo would not take another Euro.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:19 am

I never blasted you - was just pointing out.

WOJ knows exactly what our FO was doing trade wise yesterday.

He wrote fucking articles on it.

This has nothing to do w/ mocks OJ, not a gawd damn mother fucking thing.

It has to do w/ FOUR PEOPLE CATCHING WIND OF US TRYING TO TRADE TO MAKE SURE WE COULD GET VALA.

That is as close to fact as you can get in sports reporting.

Especially when one of them was Woj who on personel transactions is wrong roughly once every 25 years.

And the Colangelo shit was because owneship was allegedly putting pressure on him not to grab a Euro but reports came out at the time of the pick he sold ownership on Vala.

Again I don't give a fuck about the mocks.

I'm talking about blatent personel moves and reports that are even coming out now after the fact.

Shit like Minny blowing smoke w/ Kanter was verified as smoke after the pick - they admitted as much. This shit always comes out and Cleveland was trying all day to make a trade to get fucking Vala. I can't comprehend people ignoring this and writing it off as "a bunch of reporters reporting stuff"
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby Orenthal » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:19 am

Also I take Irving and X, over any combo of Williams and X.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:22 am

And the problem in a weak draft OJ is that they just drafted one of the what, two lowest ceiling players in the top ten at #4.

It's the first year of an effing rebuild, shoot for the stars.

And that doesn't even get into not using the TPE, not getting a late first, not using the early second WE ALREADY HAD, etc.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby Orenthal » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:35 am

e0y2e3 wrote:I never blasted you - was just pointing out.

WOJ knows exactly what our FO was doing trade wise yesterday.

He wrote fucking articles on it.

This has nothing to do w/ mocks OJ, not a gawd damn mother fucking thing.

It has to do w/ FOUR PEOPLE CATCHING WIND OF US TRYING TO TRADE TO MAKE SURE WE COULD GET VALA.

That is as close to fact as you can get in sports reporting.

Especially when one of them was Woj who on personel transactions is wrong roughly once every 25 years.

And the Colangelo shit was because owneship was allegedly putting pressure on him not to grab a Euro but reports came out at the time of the pick he sold ownership on Vala.

Again I don't give a fuck about the mocks.

I'm talking about blatent personel moves and reports that are even coming out now after the fact.

Shit like Minny blowing smoke w/ Kanter was verified as smoke after the pick - they admitted as much. This shit always comes out and Cleveland was trying all day to make a trade to get fucking Vala. I can't comprehend people ignoring this and writing it off as "a bunch of reporters reporting stuff"


Heard. Respect. I'm really puzzled right now, because while I lean to the negative on the TT pick for all the reasons listed; I can talk myself off the ledge unlike many past Cavaliers drafts.

Trying to judge Grant on the whole still has me slightly bullish. What they do in the next 7 days, and what happens come end of lockout, the TPE, giving it a couple seasons.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby Orenthal » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:38 am

e0y2e3 wrote:And the problem in a weak draft OJ is that they just drafted one of the what, two lowest ceiling players in the top ten at #4.

It's the first year of an effing rebuild, shoot for the stars.

And that doesn't even get into not using the TPE, not getting a late first, not using the early second WE ALREADY HAD, etc.


+having the #1 gave you ample cover to do so.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby ajunior148 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:42 am

e0y2e3 wrote:And the problem in a weak draft OJ is that they just drafted one of the what, two lowest ceiling players in the top ten at #4.

It's the first year of an effing rebuild, shoot for the stars.


Yep. We had a chance at potentially a very good center and we passed on him for a PF that doesn't have near the ceiling. And it seems like it is because we want to trot bodies out next year to sell a rebuild to our fan base.

It seems like we are more concerned with getting decent ASAP instead of building a championship squad, and that sucks. TT will probably end up being a solid rotational guy, but not an impact player. I'd have gone for the potential that JV showed instead.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby Orenthal » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:45 am

Can someone let David Stern and the owners know that they just had one of the best NBA seasons in a long time, and that interest in the league is at a peak. This is from a home team centric fanboi.

What the fuck am I supposed to follow now?
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby Orenthal » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:47 am

ajunior148 wrote:Yep. We had a chance at potentially a very good center and we passed on him for a PF that doesn't have near the ceiling. And it seems like it is because we want to trot bodies out next year to sell a rebuild to our fan base.

It seems like we are more concerned with getting decent ASAP instead of building a championship squad, and that sucks. TT will probably end up being a solid rotational guy, but not an impact player. I'd have gone for the potential that JV showed instead.


Yet we trade that early second, and use the late second on a stash player. This is why I'm puzzled, its a mixed message given that the early secon usually could compete for a roster spot.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:15 am

Orenthal wrote:Can someone let David Stern and the owners know that they just had one of the best NBA seasons in a long time, and that interest in the league is at a peak. This is from a home team centric fanboi.

What the fuck am I supposed to follow now?


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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:33 am

When you think it couldn't be worse, just remember -- you could be the Hornets. The league owns the team, and sells the 2nd round pick for cash.


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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:51 am

Jason Lloyd at the ABJ:

The Cavs were high on Valanciunas throughout the scouting process. Grant took two visits to Lithuania to personally scout him, and DraftExpress.com reported he was in Cleveland for a visit earlier this week.

But Valanciunas has a sticky European contract that was likely going to prevent him from coming to the NBA right away. The Cavs were willing to wait for him, but remained adamant they wouldn't take him unless they knew explicitly when he would be available.

Two hours before the draft, the Cavs still weren't comfortable with the terms of the buyout and ultimately shifted their focus to Thompson, who averaged 13.1 points and 7.8 rebounds while earning Big 12 Freshman of the Year honors.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby scott » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:59 am

I was hoping for Vala at #4 but I won't lose any sleep over it. The #2 priority from this draft was to stay bad enough to play a prominent role in next years lottery. That was accomplished.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:13 pm

So according to unknown ABJ reporter (good lord is this team covered poorly) the Cavs got scared about the buyout which by ALL ACCOUNT IS AGREED TO IN PRINCIPAL AND JUST NOT SIGNED and bitched out of the player we had rated higher.

Love to know where I read that before.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:44 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:So according to unknown ABJ reporter (good lord is this team covered poorly) the Cavs got scared about the buyout which by ALL ACCOUNT IS AGREED TO IN PRINCIPAL AND JUST NOT SIGNED and bitched out of the player we had rated higher.


Image

And before you go off into another Internet Fight, yes its different but the point is the same. There are no guarantees unless there's signatures on the contract.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby BruceK » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:51 pm

FWIW, a draft grade from CBS Sportsline

Cleveland Cavaliers: Kyrie Irving, Tristan Thompson. Grade: A. Taking Irving with the first pick gave the franchise a new face, but the selection of Thompson, which was largely unexpected, showed that GM Chris Grant has the guts, vision and power to rebuild a roster his way. Thompson is an excellent two-way player who was a solid find amidst all the Euro hype.

http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/30222506
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby rk » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:55 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:So according to unknown ABJ reporter (good lord is this team covered poorly)


Lloyd's takes seems pretty good. Certainly better than anything the PD throws out there. Hard to replace Windy tho.

...the Cavs got scared about the buyout which by ALL ACCOUNT IS AGREED TO IN PRINCIPAL AND JUST NOT SIGNED and bitched out of the player we had rated higher.

Love to know where I read that before.


Let me try to summarize your POV because I'm confused.

You belive that Gilbert nixed the drafting of a 6'10 Lithuanian who was unlikely to play here until at least next year because he wants to win now? That the Cavs FO was in love with the Long Lost Eastern European Jonas brother but that Gilbert put his foot down and said take somebody who we know can help now. With Kanter off the board that meant Tristan. Is that close enough?

If that is his motivation I don't understand why he ok'd drafting two guys who play postitions that are inarguably the only two positions that the Cavs have any NBA talent at. I mean before the draft we had 2 PGs and 2 PFs who are legit NBA players that could play on other teams. Probably no centers, sf, or sgs that fit that bill.

So if Gilbert is hell bent on winning now then why wouldn't he insist on going Williams, who wants to play 3, first and then trade that 4th pick for someone like Steven Jackson? Or hell even picked Alec Burks or Klay Thompson at 4? It's obvious they weren't afraid to reach a bit there.

Even if you argue that he was just so in love with the 'Humanity' of Kyrie Irving that they had to get him they still had the option of drafting Veselly who would seem to have slotted in with the current makeup of the team better.

I dunno. I just think in the end they decided that the risk of the buyout getting bigger than it should be plus not having him here for a year made them decide that Tristan was a safer bet. I don't like the pick but once Kanter was off the board I didn't really want anyone at 4 because I felt like you could get the same basic guy at 15. That they felt safe going with a PF meant to me that they don't really plan on anyone on the roster being there to help in 2-4 years when Kyrie and Co. can reasonably be expected to be a playoff team if everything goes good.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby Orenthal » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:03 pm

The men at ESPN, surrounded by women they would love to sexually harrass, were finally given an outlet for this built up tension. They continue to talk on and on, even on this AM's SportsCenter, about the Euro women.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:19 pm

I never said or implyed win now on a "WIN A TITLE RIGHT NOW NEXT YEAR~!!@!!" push.

That is still unclear as we still have to see WTF we do w/ Andy, JJ and the other guys that should be gone, no matter who in the eff we picked.

This was a look season ticket holders - WE ARE REBUILDING AND HERE IS TANGIBLE REASON TO WATCH THIS SHITTY TEAM!@#$!!

I fully believe Gilbert nixed Vala.

Where our FO decided a fucking undersized PF that can't score and isn't the best defensive PF prospect taken in the top 10 is the next best player, well I don't know how in the hell that happens.

He's not a 2 way prospect. Period. He's a 1 way prospect and not as good of a prospect going that one way as numerbous guys taken after him.

This came down to pussing out over a buyout and taking a safe guy who looks like a nice bet to be some sort of a rotation player, even though his ceiling is maddeningly limited.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:20 pm

PS: If D-Will is a 3 I am fucking Barak Obama and Andy started at center on this team last year.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:23 pm

And again, in a draft that had a lot of later role player prospects we choked at using our TPE, trading for a late first rounder (of which there were 15 traded) and failed to use our early second rounder in any meaningful way.

This draft post Kyrie was a shit sandwich topped off with a heap of fail.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby rk » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:28 pm

Orenthal wrote:The men at ESPN, surrounded by women they would love to sexually harrass, were finally given an outlet for this built up tension. They continue to talk on and on, even on this AM's SportsCenter, about the Euro women.


The ESPN NBA crew of commentators are horrible and their attempt to make the NBA draft more like the NFL draft is silly. They don't seem to understand that the NFL draft is an event because things happen live and stay that way.

The way the trade system in the NBA works on draft day is the exact opposite of made for TV. And the rules governing the way international players are drafted with buyouts and age oddities make it incredibly unsatisfactory when a team you have a rooting interest picks one of them.

The NBA draft is one giant anticlimax and changing around the commenters to get people more 'human' won't help. Either the NBA needs to tweek the rule to make it a more enjoyable event or ESPN needs to cut back on the attempt to make it into the NFL draft and focus more on entertainment and less on random factoids as filler between picks.

Hell have a court set up and have the invitees screwing around on the court rather than getting dressed up to the 9s. Then whenever they get picked they walk off, put on their jersey, and head back to the hardwood. Let people watch the guy who their team just drafted get dunked on by the random white Euro.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:30 pm

BTW: The best comp for D-Will is a better shooting JJ Hickson, to your point at calling him a 3.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:32 pm

All the NBA Draft needs to succeed is to go back to TNT. Kenny, Chuck, Ernie and C-Webb would be fine.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby FUDU » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:42 pm

I have a suggestion for Jonathan Knight's next book project "Remember when we WANTED to be Cavalier Fans?".
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby rk » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:44 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:I fully believe Gilbert nixed Vala.


I don't discount this as a possibility. Even as the most likely one. I just don't get why you limit the reasoning for it the way you do.

I'm sure Gilbert feels like they couldn't blow the 4th pick and the risk that Jonas' buyout meant they could get stuck in a Rubio situation and end up buying him out two years later and after a season where he averaged 6 fucking points a game. That is the very definition of a blown pick. Even Darko Milquetoast was eventually traded for Stuckey.

Where our FO decided a fucking undersized PF that can't score and isn't the best defensive PF prospect taken in the top 10 is the next best player, well I don't know how in the hell that happens.

He's not a 2 way prospect. Period. He's a 1 way prospect and not as good of a prospect going that one way as numerbous guys taken after him.

This came down to pussing out over a buyout and taking a safe guy who looks like a nice bet to be some sort of a rotation player, even though his ceiling is maddeningly limited.


Eh. I disagree that it's maddeningly limited. I think you invested in Irving so you don't have to invest in guys who can create their own shot. I think rebounding is the one thing that projects well from college to the pros and if the Cavs build around the Byron Scott offense you don't necessarily need outside shooters from the 4/5. Although developing a midrange shot would probably be vital for him to make it past the 4th/5th best guy on your team. They drafted a consensus top 10 pick in a draft where the consensus was the top 10 sucks compared to almost every other draft.

I think he'll run well with Irving. If you can match them up with a center with an offensive game and then a 2 and 3 who can shoot and get to the hoop you have a decent chance of competing for the playoffs. Those are ginourmous ifs but I just feel like the Euros have just as many.

I'm just really happy they didn't draft Biakabatuka. That guy has Diop bust written all over him.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby rk » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:47 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:PS: If D-Will is a 3 I am fucking Barak Obama and Andy started at center on this team last year.


He's a better 3 now than anyone the Cavs have on their roster.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:50 pm

Byron Scott's offense has succeeded at it's best w/ PF's who can shoot.

not sure where you are getting that.

And the Vala buyout is a one year issue.

But if you and Pup want to keep on screaming about him scoring 7 points per game at 19 in a league that is EXPONENTIALLY BETTER than 1-A basketball, be my guest, but that doesn't reflect well on you.

Go look at TT's great rebounding numbers against quality opps last year. I pasted them in this thread for you. Real fucking nice.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby Kingpin74 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:50 pm

This was a look season ticket holders - WE ARE REBUILDING AND HERE IS TANGIBLE REASON TO WATCH THIS SHITTY TEAM!@#$!!


Since we didn't renew our tickets, we've been contacted roughly 10 times by our account executive, including receiving a Nokia phone in the mail this week that directly dialed the executive and included a $50 team shop coupon. I'm telling you guys, they took a bath. I really didn't know much about most of the drafted players but I absolutely believe this theory and it makes me very angry. At 4, going anything other than best projected player in the year 2013 is ridiculous.
Last edited by Kingpin74 on Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:52 pm

BTW: Biyombo just played in the 2nd most competitive league in the world outside of the NBA. He played great D and made a noticeable impact on the floor while avoiding foul trouble. Diop didn't even make an impact as HS player in the US. That's about as big a bullshit comp as you can make.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:54 pm

You keep repeating this, so fine. I'll bite. INTERNET FIGHT!

e0y2e3 wrote:And again, in a draft that had a lot of later role player prospects we choked at using our TPE,


It takes two to tango and I'm at a loss as to who was dangling albatrosses for draft picks. With increased revenue sharing and potential amnesty around the corner, the TPE is turning into a bag of non-magic beans.

trading for a late first rounder (of which there were 15 traded)


It sounds like Grant bailed out on trading up after he missed on Leonard.

and failed to use our early second rounder in any meaningful way.


Harper was a hump and if Howard bails on Orlando we've got another pair of high second round picks we can sweeten deals with or turn into other humps.

This draft post Kyrie was a shit sandwich topped off with a heap of fail.


And we've known that it was a fail draft for a few months now.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:00 pm

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:You keep repeating this, so fine. I'll bite. INTERNET FIGHT!

e0y2e3 wrote:And again, in a draft that had a lot of later role player prospects we choked at using our TPE,


It takes two to tango and I'm at a loss as to who was dangling albatrosses for draft picks. With increased revenue sharing and potential amnesty around the corner, the TPE is turning into a bag of non-magic beans.

trading for a late first rounder (of which there were 15 traded)


It sounds like Grant bailed out on trading up after he missed on Leonard.

and failed to use our early second rounder in any meaningful way.


Harper was a hump and if Howard bails on Orlando we've got another pair of high second round picks we can sweeten deals with or turn into other humps.

This draft post Kyrie was a shit sandwich topped off with a heap of fail.


And we've known that it was a fail draft for a few months now.


Yeah Charlotte didn't manage to buy the #7 pick.

And Sac didn't just pull off one of the dumbest trades ever for reasons unknown.

And even if a bad draft - this draft was loaded w/ role players. Contenders managed to grab how many picks in the 20s last night? We did shit.

And doing nothing w/ the 2nd pick in the 2nd round is just icing on the fucking cake. This draft was a fail, spin it however you want. We all know you want to blow Gilbert, get it, but you cannot excuse last night w/ a straight look on your face. And this draft was loaded w/ role players, again.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:21 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Yeah Charlotte didn't manage to buy the #7 pick.


Right, because exchanging SJax for Maggette is just like unloading an albatross for the TPE.

And even if a bad draft - this draft was loaded w/ role players. Contenders managed to grab how many picks in the 20s last night? We did shit.


Because we're not contenders. And the Gilbert Cavs haven't historically lit the world on fire in trading up into the crap end of the first round anyways.

We all know you want to blow Gilbert, get it, but you cannot excuse last night w/ a straight look on your face.


When all else fails, go for the insults. Get over yourself.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:34 pm

I'm just in shock that you can watch a draft where 65 first round transactions are made (some picks traded three times) and pretend we couldn't have found SOME WAY to use our TPE.

Letting that asset expire after having over a full season to use it will be as big a failure as this FO will have ever made.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby scott » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:39 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:PS: If D-Will is a 3 I am fucking Barak Obama and Andy started at center on this team last year.


Is fucking being used as an adjective or verb here?

rk wrote:Let people watch the guy who their team just drafted
blow an achilles. Terrible idea.



I just read Hollinger's draft rater article. Feel a little better about Thompson after this.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2011/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=draftrater-110620

"Thompson and Williams had the highest ratings of any player in the Draft Rater this year, and while that doesn't come with the same assurances it does for Kyrie Irving, they both appear to be very solid prospects. Of the 13 players who rated at 15.5 or above in previous iterations, most were very successful as pros, and the ones that weren't tended to fail due to injuries and lack of professionalism -- issues that shouldn't be factors for Thompson and Williams."
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby rk » Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:06 pm

blow an achilles. Terrible idea.


Bah. These are big boys. They play basketball every day. But if someone did get drafted and blow out their achilles that would make it literally the most dramatic draft in the history of the NBA.

So ESPN bigwigs vote yes.

Then just picture the team that saw their guy get hurt sneak a trade in with some GM who wasn't watching. Classic entertainment.

Nice link from Holliger but Eeyore has already declared that Thompson is the suck who has already maxed out. We needed that 6'10 Lithuanian to have any hope of getting to the playoffs in 2016.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:10 pm

FWIW: The Lith is actually just a shade under 7' and 245.

This guy scored nice on Hollingers shitty draft projection that rolls a bunch of stats up and rewards guys for putting up meh numbers accross the board. Good on him.

Pelton's analysis draws him as a 97.5% comp to Darrell Arthur and Pelton works in an NBA Front Office w/ his models.

The guy's ceiling is meh and he is feh.

But hey, Hollinger's analysis also love Danny Green. Called him the steal of the draft and what not. That worked out well.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby JJN » Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:11 pm

The issue isn't that TT won't be a player in the NBA, its that using the two methods of drafting (BPA or fits need), he doesn't seem to be either outside of a statistical analysis. And if we are using a stats-basis, Hollinger's euro to NBA stats translator put Vala at something like 15pts 15rebs.

So here is what could have happened:
1. We sincerely like TT over our other options.
2. Gilbert put his hand up Grant's ass and made him a puppet.
3. We panicked over the Vala contract situation.
4. We tried to get cute and draft TT for another team in the top 10 who wanted him, and figured Vala would fall. The Raps burned us by taking our guy and we got stuck with our dick in our hand.

Only option 1 speaks to this organisation having their shit together. And frankly, the more I think about it, the more I think that it is possibly option 4. Detroit probably wanted TT but thought the Cats had jumped them for him with the Raps taking Bismack.
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby scott » Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:34 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:FWIW: The Lith is actually just a shade under 7' and 245.

This guy scored nice on Hollingers shitty draft projection that rolls a bunch of stats up and rewards guys for putting up meh numbers accross the board. Good on him.

Pelton's analysis draws him as a 97.5% comp to Darrell Arthur and Pelton works in an NBA Front Office w/ his models.

The guy's ceiling is meh and he is feh.

But hey, Hollinger's analysis also love Danny Green. Called him the steal of the draft and what not. That worked out well.


Never said I loved the guy. Just that there's a chance he turns out to be better than I thought an hour ago. Hell, even if he's JJ Hickson with half a brain that is an upgrade.

If this Pelton guy is right, we just picked up a Derrick Rose clone, so why are we talking about anything else?
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Re: 2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:52 pm

Pelton also says in the article that comping Irving w/ numbers is nearly impossible due to sample size, but whatever.

Everytime I look at the guy I see Tyrus Thomas without the freak athleticism.

And then I look at the playoff starting PFs and realize what a joke this is.
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