Next Up: TP

[peeker643]

Also, very little comments on the loaner car issues... but there's always a question- how many of you guys have received loaners from the dealership when your car is in the shop? I haven't, but I haven't had major repairs on recently purchased cars. Just asking...

My wife wrecked her first Jetta in the snow and it needed major body work, the dealer gave her a newer Jetta as a loaner...... and we ended up going back there to get a new Jetta.

I assume they charged any "Loaner Fee" to our insurance company..

That's an accident though. Fewer and fewer dealers will provide a loaner unless your repairs are under a warranty. And most mechanical repairs or wear & tear related repairs aren't covered by auto insurance (though again, the warranty may cover that). Although if they are you typically are entitled to $30/day for 30 days.

[e0y2e3]

^ EXPERT

[motherscratcher]

Right I read that. Can't argue with it, but it's not really anything big either. Krenzel has never been a tressel shill anyways, his comments there aren't all that harsh and certainly not all that surprising. I don't think he means what you mean peek, he says he doesn't expect new allegations, I think you seem to.

Guess I don't really see that as "calling tressel out bad".

Me too. I read that and thought I might be missing something because it doesn't really seem all that bad to me.

Also, with the Rolle interview. He basically said he got offered a car and didn't take it, but he doesn't feel like OSU is any different than anywhere.

these things don't seem that bad really. I'm nut sure what the big deal is. Am I just wearing scarlet colored glasses?

[peeker643]

^ EXPERT

Better at telling you how much your disc surgery is worth when tpeezy2 runs a red light and broadsides you or what type of cash your family gets if he mangles you beyond repair.

[e0y2e3]

When your only national championship QB (also a brilliant guy) goes public pretty much saying his coach needed to look in the mirror and was obviouslly flawed that is a big thing.

Krenzel essentially just dropped a politically correct "Tressel fucked up and it is embarassing as hell"

Now if you expect someone like Krenzel, a measured and mature public speaker to just run out and call Tressel a fuck that's your problem.

It read night and day from what Shills like Jenkins have said and has conveniently been ignored by OSU Nation in favor of picking and choosing who they quote and talks about "BUT HE WAS NICE TO SOLDIERS"

[e0y2e3]

Furls has run up and down this thread talking about the sources re: the free cars are just angry bench players and losers. He has demanded better sources.

Brian Rolle stood up and said "Yes I was offered a car" and "you have to be a smart person about accepting that or not"

If that isn't a clear a source for this car shit being true I don't know what is.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Fairvis asked if anyone had gotten a loaner.

I answered. I wasn't attempting to prove anything.

Still bleeding I see.

[JCoz]

Right I read that. Can't argue with it, but it's not really anything big either. Krenzel has never been a tressel shill anyways, his comments there aren't all that harsh and certainly not all that surprising. I don't think he means what you mean peek, he says he doesn't expect new allegations, I think you seem to.

Guess I don't really see that as "calling tressel out bad".

Me too. I read that and thought I might be missing something because it doesn't really seem all that bad to me.

Also, with the Rolle interview. He basically said he got offered a car and didn't take it, but he doesn't feel like OSU is any different than anywhere.

these things don't seem that bad really. I'm nut sure what the big deal is. Am I just wearing scarlet colored glasses?

None of it is really worth pointing out I'd say.

Think E0 was/is just pissed off.

[e0y2e3]

Wait, again, the Rolle thing was a direct response to the class of players Furls was talking about and his request for better players.

Christ you aren't that fucking dumb.

And Krenzel just measurably cut Tressel down to the public, but you don't care about that while you do care about players like Jenkins blowing him to the public? You can't pick and chose your player takes here and pretend to be at all balanced.

As for you CDT, my reponse to Peeks had nothing to do with you. Didn't even care who talked about the loaner. I was just being a douche and calling Peeks an Insurance Expert.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

He is an Insurance Expert.

A guy who sells rocks should know a thing or two about gravel too.

[JCoz]

When your only national championship QB (also a brilliant guy) goes public pretty much saying his coach needed to look in the mirror and was obviouslly flawed that is a big thing.

Krenzel essentially just dropped a politically correct "Tressel fucked up and it is embarassing as hell"

Now if you expect someone like Krenzel, a measured and mature public speaker to just run out and call Tressel a fuck that's your problem.

It read night and day from what Shills like Jenkins have said and has conveniently been ignored by OSU Nation in favor of picking and choosing who they quote and talks about "BUT HE WAS NICE TO SOLDIERS"

He was saying tressel wasnt perfect, he's more calling out the fans for being niave shills more than saying something about tressel there.

Yah he said tress fucked up. That is hardly news or shocking, and certainly nothing anyone needs to purposefully hide amongst other player comments. If you are familiar with Krenzel post OSU, then you know he has never been a rah rah cheerleader type, and has never been shy about being critical of tressel. Note that he also says that the things he is seeing and hearing are NOT the tressel he spent time with.

I think you've taken your own meaning out of those quotes.

[motherscratcher]

Krenzel essentially just dropped a politically correct "Tressel fucked up and it is embarassing as hell"

Well, yeah, but isn't that already what we all think? I thought that's where we already were. That's where I am, anyway. Tressel fucked up and it's embarassing. I wish it didn't happen. I wish he didn't lie. But he did. Sucks. I'm not sure why Krenzel saying it is different.

And I'm not sure why Brian Rolle saying he was offered a car is supposed to be surprising.

I'd be surprised if plyaers like Rolle weren't offered stuff.

None of this seems like new ground is all.

[e0y2e3]

Do I need to go upthread (well between threads) and start quoting Furls quotes about the only players talking about car offers being shitty assholes and demanding more sources and then go start quoting people like Dan talking about "Tressel's outcry of support from past players showing how AWESOME he was!!!!"

Because those are the types of takes I responded to with those.

And don't even pretend like the "PLAYERS SUPPORT TRESSEL, HE WAS GOOD!!!!!" takes have no been spit all over this board in the past week.

[peeker643]

Right I read that. Can't argue with it, but it's not really anything big either. Krenzel has never been a tressel shill anyways, his comments there aren't all that harsh and certainly not all that surprising. I don't think he means what you mean peek, he says he doesn't expect new allegations, I think you seem to.

Guess I don't really see that as "calling tressel out bad".

He says it's going to get uglier- I agree with that.

He says he doesn't think anymore new allegations will surface- I disagree with that.

Unless he said it because during the Tressel reign you've already got guys riding around in deeply discounted vehicles, frequenting with convicted drug offenders, trading in their fame for tattoos and getting $500 handshakes. Not sure what's left other than more allegations involving broads, fishing trips and beach houses.

So I'll be clearer in saying I do expect more allegations in that specific players and instances will be uncovered. I think the program is probably safe in regard to beach houses though. Which is sweet.

And I agree none of this is new to college football. Problem is that going back 10 years it's not really new to Columbus.

Which IS news to most of us and clearly affects us as Buckeye fans today. I don't care that Marcus DuPree's old lady got a new trailer delivered to her lot 30 years ago.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

I've got a beach house, little strip right near 3 Mile Island, sun, surf, and all the 5 eyed bass you can catch.

[JCoz]

Wait, again, the Rolle thing was a direct response to the class of players Furls was talking about and his request for better players.

Christ you aren't that fucking dumb.

And Krenzel just measurably cut Tressel down to the public, but you don't care about that while you do care about players like Jenkins blowing him to the public? You can't pick and chose your player takes here and pretend to be at all balanced.

As for you CDT, my reponse to Peeks had nothing to do with you. Didn't even care who talked about the loaner. I was just being a douche and calling Peeks an Insurance Expert.

I'll have to go back and read what furls was talking about, guess I missed what your point was there. I think there is definitely a possibility that there are issues with the cars, rolle wasn't specific enough to draw alot out of his quote, but together with OSU firing some compliance officials, it certainly doesn't feel like the most solid ground to be standing on if you think the car dealings were all legit.

Just have to hope for the best. No one wants this kind of attention focused on their program, theres always dirt to be found.

[peeker643]

I've got a beach house, little strip right near 3 Mile Island, sun, surf, and all the 5 eyed bass you can catch.

Doesn't count. That wasn't intended to be a beach when the house was built.

[e0y2e3]

BUT THE SEC OVERSIGNS PEEKS!@$!!

[noles1]

If we are going to get on this Craig Krenzel stuff and stick on it, I want to share my encounters with him and his transgressions as an amatuer... I mean, if we are going to get into all this petty ass shit, then we might as well share our on ancedotes.

First off, I find any points that Krenzel makes incredibly laughable considering I knew him and had many "conversations" with him in college. I saw firsthand when I was at OSU's S&G course all the "perks" this guy received from the OSU golf course for 2+ years. By "many" I mean I was basically told to provide him buckets of free range balls throughout a day at Scarlett & Gray, on top of cleaning his clubs and providing him free cart service. On top of the free meals and free golf he got to play because he was "buddies" with one of the club pros there when I worked. After his rounds, we bus his table and you'd overhear all these stories from the ESPYs and all these award circuits. He was quick to point out that his junior year, he was strictly forbidden by the university of taking anything from the awards circuits not tied to the NCAA, however, the NCAA circuit gave "gift baskets" similar to these bowl games that basically is the NCAAs hypocritical way of paying off their farm hands. Regardless, this same guy that drove a nice ass car in college and hung at the course at least twice a week between junior - senior year, soaking up every benefit he could milk out of it. And now he's coming back around and pointing a finger???

I'm confused. I too would like to see the quotes. Cause I have personally met Craig Krenzel many, many times and I was left with one simple takeaway... you can call him molecular biologist all you want but he was literally no different than almost any other football player I ever met. And here's the thing, I don't have a problem with it at all. I worked 3 jobs a time during my junior year and he got to do what he got to do, more power to him but have some fuckin personal accountability before you go pointin fingers in others direction. Don't turn around and bite the hands that are feeding you. (not even to say Tressel was feeding him) Guy was a God after the National Title year and he damn sure enjoy whatever he could squeeze out of it, all the while the university held up their end of the bargain as much as they could. How the hell they suppose to know he's getting $200+/day in perks from the campus golf course??? It was all paperless, and who would send Compliance to track around their pretigous, micro-biology majoring QB?

[motherscratcher]

Do I need to go upthread (well between threads) and start quoting Furls quotes about the only players talking about car offers being shitty assholes and demanding more sources and then go start quoting people like Dan talking about "Tressel's outcry of support from past players showing how AWESOME he was!!!!"

Because those are the types of takes I responded to with those.

And don't even pretend like the "PLAYERS SUPPORT TRESSEL, HE WAS GOOD!!!!!" takes have no been spit all over this board in the past week.

That's fair enough. I guess if you are going to be citing all of the "Tressel is a good man" takes from players, you also have to include teh "Tressel was dirty and didn't give a fuck" takes from players, especially if they are coming from a dude like Krenzel instead of Ray Small.

I guess I would just say 2 things. 1, I'm with JCoz in that it didn't seem like Kranzel was slamming and blaming Tressel as much as he was bliming selfish players.

And 2, I missed where Furls was dropping "the players support Tressel" stuff all over the place. I will admit that I have been known to skim through shit occasionally.

[JCoz]

Going back 10 years Peek? Try 50.

The surprise would be that it hadn't stopped, which in hindsight seems like a pretty dumb thing to have believed, doesn't it? I that's how I feel, I was plenty guilty of it until last year when I started hearing things here and there.

[e0y2e3]

no Noles, that wasn't my point:

Maybe for a fifth time this can get through:

Posters have ran around these boards talking about the incredible support Tressel has gotten from prior players proving how awesome a man he was (paraphrasing Dan, but that is the gist of it). If we are going to be forced to read the site's Buckeye analyst post stupid shit like that maybe the site's Buckeye analyst can at least acknowledge that not every player is taking this opportunity to blow Tressel and is instead actually being brutally honest about the situation.

Jim Tressel is a black eye to college football and OSU right now. Period. I don't give a fuck how many veterans rallies he went to or hospital beds he knelt by.

[motherscratcher]

George Dohrmann contacting Noles in 3...2...1...

[JCoz]

BUT THE SEC OVERSIGNS PEEKS!@$!!

Completely different topic, pretty weak pot shot attempt as well.

But FYI, I certainly do feel sheepish for having tried so hard in the past to draw a distinction between us and them when it comes to breaking rules. Them being others in general moreso than SEC. Not just from the last month, but from the last year or two.

Big time college football is what it is.

[e0y2e3]

That was all I was saying Coz.

And to your credit, you have been one of the more intellectually honest of Buckeye Nation on this thing since day one. Certain people have taken the shill course and I'll give you credit for mostly avoiding it.

[peeker643]

Going back 10 years Peek? Try 50.

The surprise would be that it hadn't stopped, which in hindsight seems like a pretty dumb thing to have believed, doesn't it? I that's how I feel, I was plenty guilty of it until last year when I started hearing things here and there.

No doubt. But the Tressel era was ~10 years which is why I framed it that way.

And to be completely fair (and at the risk of again sounding disjointed), up until this really mis-timed book came out that Tressel wrote (any word how that's selling these days?), most of the saintly exploits and expectations of Tressel weren't created by Tressel but by the same media types who are currently tearing him down.

Which is the problem I have with the Dispatch, etc. This shit was all there and all available for some ambitious (or at least less slovenly) reporter to dig up back then. They just waited til it was easier and after ground had been broken while they were actually complicit in the problem because times were easy (IMO).

The whole thing smells to High Street Heaven and no one should feel too good about it.

[JCoz]

That's how all modern sports reporting is done Peek isn't it? Build it up and demolish when finished.

[noles1]

Hey, all I am doing is point out the credibility of one Craig Krenzel from his "ivory" microphone...

I get both sides discussed but frankly dont care what the players have to say as much, I just want to point out one particular opinion, that I happened to have a lot of firsthand opinion of. Just found what he said somewhat humorous considering what I saw with my own eyes fromt he same guy.

[furls]

When your only national championship QB (also a brilliant guy) goes public pretty much saying his coach needed to look in the mirror and was obviouslly flawed that is a big thing.

Krenzel essentially just dropped a politically correct "Tressel fucked up and it is embarassing as hell"

Now if you expect someone like Krenzel, a measured and mature public speaker to just run out and call Tressel a fuck that's your problem.

It read night and day from what Shills like Jenkins have said and has conveniently been ignored by OSU Nation in favor of picking and choosing who they quote and talks about "BUT HE WAS NICE TO SOLDIERS"

I am pretty sure that everyone here is in agreement that Tressel fucked up, I don't need Craig Krenzel's take on it to help me out with that. How are you basing Krenzel as a "measured and mature public speaker?" Is there a metric there that I don't know about? Krenzel actually didn't call Tressel a fuck, and if he did please link that article. He said he got caught with a smoking gun (I agree). He said that Jim Tressel needs to look in the mirror (I agree, he was fired because of what HE did). He said Tressel was not as perfect as Buckeye fans thought (I agree).

[furls]

Furls has run up and down this thread talking about the sources re: the free cars are just angry bench players and losers. He has demanded better sources.

Brian Rolle stood up and said "Yes I was offered a car" and "you have to be a smart person about accepting that or not"

If that isn't a clear a source for this car shit being true I don't know what is.

The Rolle is a far better source than Small, Rose and an unnamed convicted felon currently in jail. Is there something to the car stuff? Maybe, again, there was an investigation. There will be another investigation, hopefully if there are allegations the sources are better than that because the burden of proof in the court of public opinion is much lower than the burden of proof in the NCAA COI.

There is a lot of smoke on this car thing, but it is exactly that, smoke at this point.

[danwismar]

Posters have ran around these boards talking about the incredible support Tressel has gotten from prior players proving how awesome a man he was (paraphrasing Dan, but that is the gist of it). If we are going to be forced to read the site's Buckeye analyst post stupid shit like that maybe the site's Buckeye analyst can at least acknowledge that not every player is taking this opportunity to blow Tressel and is instead actually being brutally honest about the situation.

Jim Tressel is a black eye to college football and OSU right now. Period. I don't give a fuck how many veterans rallies he went to or hospital beds he knelt by.

I have no disagreement with anything Krenzel said, nor am I "ignoring" it. He says Tressel is "flawed" and "got caught with a smoking gun", both blindingly obvious realities. He praises Tressel as much as he disses him ("The person I had the opportunity to spend a lot of time with was not the man that people see right now"), and he places as much or more blame on players with a sense of entitlement. This is not a testament that any OSU fan or follower is running from, least of all me.

He talks about how the actions of Tressel and/or Pryor were.."disappointing, or "an embarrassment". Of course they were. Who is denying that?

I also have read this entire thread, and have not seen anyone denying that the "car shit" was/is real or true or anything of the sort...not Furls...not me. We have both said we'll wait till we hear what was done and by whom. That's all. As I said earlier, if compliance was signing off on illegal car deals (because we know they were consulted with by the dealership on individual deals)then Tressel or Smith has to be held accountable. One of them already has, and I think the whole department needs to be cleaned out, Smith included. Smith especially.

You haven't heard me defend Smith or Gee in this. I said the day after the press conference that Gee was an embarrassment to OSU every time he opened his mouth.

You're arguing with strawmen, and displaying the same kind of blind spot that you accuse others of having...just in the opposite direction. You cannot abide anything positive being said about (especially) Tressel. You're not looking for balance...you're looking for condemnation. Players (and posters) who say positive things are "sucking Tressel's dick", while former players who are stating the obvious (players get good deals on cars....JT is flawed....he lied...) are being "brutally honest".

Nobody is denying any of the plainly obvious violations or personal failings of the former head coach. But you can continue raving if you wish.

[furls]

Do I need to go upthread (well between threads) and start quoting Furls quotes about the only players talking about car offers being shitty assholes and demanding more sources and then go start quoting people like Dan talking about "Tressel's outcry of support from past players showing how AWESOME he was!!!!"

Because those are the types of takes I responded to with those.

And don't even pretend like the "PLAYERS SUPPORT TRESSEL, HE WAS GOOD!!!!!" takes have no been spit all over this board in the past week.

Seriously? I said that the SI story was weak (and it was) because it is littered with allegations from suspect (at best) sources. If you are just here to pick a fight and generally be a raging cocksucker please stop. I will post a comprehensive list of my position on it later, so that you can stop having to interpret it. If you are implying that I am retarded schill, then that can be your take.

Generally, I respect your takes on most things, but I think you are just being a cockbag now. If you are not a Buckeye fan, and you hate all Buckeye fans, then why are you loitering here? There is a reason I don't frequent Michigan boards....

[e0y2e3]

To clarify Furls, I was simply answering your direct post of the sources being terrible for the cars thing with the Rolle situation.

That is all I was aiming at you.

And I am a Buckeye fan, I just hate being associated with Shills anywhere and in terms of any sport. Dan, IMO, is a complete and utter Shill at this point. You are not there, IMO, at this point. But I was going to post Rolle's quotes as a direct answer to what you asked for.

[e0y2e3]

Dan, I just read your post again in the Tressel said and again it states the players shilling for him proves he is a loss to college football.

If you cannot see the shilling in that you are as off the rocker as you were when Wetzel was a bad source, The NCAA had punished Tressel and now your advances to HE WAS STILL A GREAT MAN!!!!

You have tweaked your shilling every step of the way through this thing. Analysis hasn't even been considered.

[JCoz]

Dan, I just read your post again in the Tressel said and again it states the players shilling for him proves he is a loss to college football.

If you cannot see the shilling in that you are as off the rocker as you were when Wetzel was a bad source, The NCAA had punished Tressel and now your advances to HE WAS STILL A GREAT MAN!!!!

You have tweaked your shilling every step of the way through this thing. Analysis hasn't even been considered.

Regardless his now tainted legacy and the trouble OSU will be in as a result of the choices that tressel and the players involved made, Tressel losing his job certainly is a loss for college football and his players.

Simple fact of the matter is that Tressel has positively effected more lives than probably every stonethrower in media and message boards put together.

Certainly more than me, and likely more than you.

And you don't have to be a shill to respect that.

[e0y2e3]

I cannot respect someone as a builder of young men pretending to have been great at that when the cheated lied and violated the very core of the alleged system they allegedly instilled in players.

And again, how many college football coaches positively impact tons of kids while cheating to win at the same time? At least those players don't pose as some golden god and publish books about living life the right way.

Neither I nor you can claim to have been a college football coach, but some pretty big cocksuckers that cheated have also helped more children than they have hurt in that roll. They at least didn't hide behind entire created charades.

EOD: he proved his entire system was a fraud and that exposes even his achievements as feh at this point. He needs to go away and never be heard from again and doesn't deserve the blowing he is getting

[furls]

To clarify Furls, I was simply answering your direct post of the sources being terrible for the cars thing with the Rolle situation.

That is all I was aiming at you.

And I am a Buckeye fan, I just hate being associated with Shills anywhere and in terms of any sport. Dan, IMO, is a complete and utter Shill at this point. You are not there, IMO, at this point. But I was going to post Rolle's quotes as a direct answer to what you asked for.

I am a homer, plain and simple. I have never appointed myself "objective." Are my glasses tinted to the scarlet&grey side, sure, I acknowledge it and I always try to look at my takes with that in mind to counterbalance my own bias.

My original point is that the car issues had LOUSY sources, as that entire SI article did, yet they still "started fires." There is no press accountability and the American Public is so FUCKING STUPID that they soak up everything that they read without any critical thought. If this same article had been written in Ann Arbor I would be saying the exact same thing (but with a smile on my face). I am not the least bit surprised to hear that Brian Rolle was offered a car and it is refreshing that he turned it down, I still have not read the article.

This while there is obvious guilt here on OSU's part, this entire event has been blown so far out of proportion that it is sad. Again, we are talking about tattoos and selling trinkets. Tressel lied and made that part worse, but this story has been rereported so many times that it is hard to get back to the central issues. ESPN and the like are running with the car thing with weak info. Look at the Pryor car thing. Everyone is shitting a brick over a 350Z with 80k on it that bluebooks for 14k (just blue booked it 17.8K is based on excellent condition which cars with 80k on them are not). No one had any facts, but the assumption that it was another loaner or an improper deal was already all over the press before anyone even knew who fucking owned it.

Like I said, I will wait to close the book on Pryor until he does something that gets him kicked off the team. He may be a cockbag, Krenzel was (I am not just saying that based on his comments re: Tressel), I too have interacted with CK on a couple of occasions and he too was an entitled douche. Right now Pryor's offenses are: Tats for Trinkets, speeding tickets and driving under suspension.

[danwismar]

Dan, I just read your post again in the Tressel said and again it states the players shilling for him proves he is a loss to college football.

If you cannot see the shilling in that you are as off the rocker as you were when Wetzel was a bad source, The NCAA had punished Tressel and now your advances to HE WAS STILL A GREAT MAN!!!!

You have tweaked your shilling every step of the way through this thing. Analysis hasn't even been considered.

You obviously read selectively, and misquote consistently. You seem to ignore whatever doesn't support your preconceived view. You don't read what I write, but you see fit to critique it. I see.

I have tried very hard to refrain from getting personal, unlike you, who are relentless with it. I'll just pass.

[e0y2e3]

Fair enough Dan. I continue to contend and will hold that your reactions to this entire debacle, every step of the way have been devastastingly ridiculous.

They run hand in hand with your TP posts over the last year (HE'S JUST A KID!!!).

I give you mad props for your ability to break down on the field stuff and will continue to read it. I will continue to mock your inability to be objective in off the field stuff as well. 'Tis what 'Tis.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Yeah, maybe you should just scream "SCHILL!@!@" a few more times. That seems to be working well for you.

[furls]

Pryor's license has been reinstated. Word on the street is that he had the insurance info, forgot about the court date and did not realize he was DUS. Seriously, the same thing happened to me when I was 19. I was in accident that was someone else's fault, did not have my card in my car, was not cited at the accident, did not claim damages and went on with my day. Since I did not produce at the scene, I was supposed to produce my license at the PD and of course I forgot. I joined the Marines moved away and never thought of it again until they were doing the investigation for my top secret clearance and the investigator asked me why I didn't tell him about it. I told him I forgot about it, turns out I drove under suspension for 3 months until my license was reinstated; I find it strange that they automatically reinstated my license, but it was WAYYYYY back in 95.

[furls]

People are even bitching about Pryor rolling through a red light to make a right hand turn. I haven't stopped in that case (unless a cop was directly behind me) since 2001. Everyone just needs to take a fucking pill.

[motherscratcher]

People are even bitching about Pryor rolling through a red light to make a right hand turn. I haven't stopped in that case (unless a cop was directly behind me) since 2001. Everyone just needs to take a fucking pill.

Wait, I saw that it was there but I never actually watched the video. He rolled through the light while turning right? Are you fucking serious? I figured he must have run it going left or straight at least. This is getting ridiculous.

BTW, You were already pretty high, but you just jumped up about 4 more notches on my "Dudes Who Are Fucking Awesome" scale with the whole top secret clearence thing.

[danwismar]

I cannot respect someone as a builder of young men pretending to have been great at that when the cheated lied and violated the very core of the alleged system they allegedly instilled in players.

And again, how many college football coaches positively impact tons of kids while cheating to win at the same time? At least those players don't pose as some golden god and publish books about living life the right way.

Neither I nor you can claim to have been a college football coach, but some pretty big cocksuckers that cheated have also helped more children than they have hurt in that roll. They at least didn't hide behind entire created charades.

EOD: he proved his entire system was a fraud and that exposes even his achievements as feh at this point. He needs to go away and never be heard from again and doesn't deserve the blowing he is getting

You clearly don't get it.

If I try to instill in young men a set of values....say...prioritizing family and education...developing an "attitude of gratitude" as a way to approach life...coming to appreciate the value of doing for others over purely self-serving pursuits...stuff like that...and I successfully instill those values in hundreds if not thousands of young men over three decades...(invariably failing to be able to instill those same values in some of them)

...and then at some point I am found to have broken the rules of the sport in pursuit of some selfish motive..and have proven myself to have character flaws...

...in no way does it "prove that my entire system is a fraud". And the thousands of young men helped are the best evidence of that.

If "virtue" (however defined) is the goal, and the person who carries that message proves to be imperfect, it doesn't follow that virtue is not a worthwhile goal.

[peeker643]

BTW, You were already pretty high, but you just jumped up about 4 more notches on my "Dudes Who Are Fucking Awesome" scale with the whole top secret clearence thing.

Shit....Furls is closing in on me and my place at the top spot of the list?

He's not even on Twitter.

Whatever.

[e0y2e3]

I played in the system Dan.

I get it.

It's a bunch of sanctimonious shit at this point. You want to go to church where the preacher gives the greatest gospal inbetween diddling little boys be my guest.

It's also a bunch of bull shit to act like 90% of your big time coaches out their don't have similar programs. They just avoided writing books talking about how awesome theirs were.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

lol.

Pedophile comparisons.

You've lost your effin mind.

[e0y2e3]

It's not my fault you and your priest had a special relationship CDT.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

lol.

Germans ain't Catholic, fucko.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

And the Pope don't count because he was alive when Martin Luther was around.