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No right to resist

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No right to resist

Unread postby FUDU » Sun May 15, 2011 5:47 pm

found this interesting http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_ec169697-a19e-525f-a532-81b3df229697.html

INDIANAPOLIS | Overturning a common law dating back to the English Magna Carta of 1215, the Indiana Supreme Court ruled Thursday that Hoosiers have no right to resist unlawful police entry into their homes. In a 3-2 decision, Justice Steven David writing for the court said if a police officer wants to enter a home for any reason or no reason at all, a homeowner cannot do anything to block the officer's entry.

"We believe ... a right to resist an unlawful police entry into a home is against public policy and is incompatible with modern Fourth Amendment jurisprudence," David said. "We also find that allowing resistance unnecessarily escalates the level of violence and therefore the risk of injuries to all parties involved without preventing the arrest."

David said a person arrested following an unlawful entry by police still can be released on bail and has plenty of opportunities to protest the illegal entry through the court system.


Standard example of erosion of rights, or stereotypical example of paranoia to which opponents argue "if you have nothing to hide"?

Thoughts?
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Re: No right to resist

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Sun May 15, 2011 6:45 pm

Thank God for States rights and the fact I wasn't born a WhoseYirDaddy...
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Re: No right to resist

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Sun May 15, 2011 8:17 pm

FUDU wrote: Justice Steven David writing for the court said if a police officer wants to enter a home for any reason or no reason at all, a homeowner cannot do anything to block the officer's entry.


Bullshit. Probable cause is ambiguous enough to get a cop just about anywhere they want to go. Now they have no checks to their authority.

Isn't there something written somewhere about unlawful search and seizure?
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Re: No right to resist

Unread postby furls » Sun May 15, 2011 10:49 pm

Erosion of rights. The President is already approaching "King" and citizens rights are slowly vanishing. It is OK though, if we as a population are not smart enough to notice then perhaps we deserve bondage. Combine this with the recent eminent domain ruling (Kelo v. City of New London) and government policy regarding "Civil Unions" and it is pretty obvious that the government is butting its head into all kinds of places where it doesn't belong (our home, our properties, and our personal lives). As long as the majority of people continue to let Fox News and MSNBC tell them what they should think, we will be doomed to the government we deserve.
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Re: No right to resist

Unread postby FUDU » Mon May 16, 2011 7:23 pm

Personally I do not like this, and view it as erosion as well. However XU, who is in law, made a pretty reasonable post explaining the thought process that supports this (his post was on another site, IIRC he too is not down with this). He basically said remedies for constitutional violations must be done after the fact in the courts, along with the notion that citizens don't have half a clue about when a warrant is lawful or not, circumstances that are deemed reasonable for LE by the law etc... IOW, siting that the courts will grant the law a lot of latitude based upon its expertise on such matters compared to Joe Homeowner with an itch to show his indignation by resisting.

Personally I see this as opening a can of worms in terms of risk to a homeowner if in fact LEO are not the ones knocking on a door wanting to come in.

IMO this will go further up the ladder and be reversed.
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Re: No right to resist

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue May 17, 2011 1:18 am

Mmmmmmmmmmm.......... No The 4th Amendment says different, and i'll go with that.

Get a warrant or fuck off.

The Indiana Surpreme Court Justices should be drug out of their homes and beaten in the streets. I think that's fair.
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Re: No right to resist

Unread postby jerryroche » Tue May 17, 2011 7:51 am

For the record, the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

FUDU is right: The Indiana court's ruling, if appealed, eventually will be overturned (certainly by the Supreme Court, if it even gets that far). If it is upheld, we are all in a heap of trouble.
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Re: No right to resist/Indiana Supreme Court

Unread postby FUDU » Tue May 17, 2011 5:18 pm

Update:
http://www.examiner.com/libertarian-in-national/indiana-supreme-court-receives-death-threats-following-controversial-decision

If the chief purpose of the Indiana Supreme Court’s trampling of the Fourth Amendment was to reduce violence, as claimed by Justice Steven David, then the controversial ruling may have backfired. The ruling, which gives police carte blanche to enter a private home without a warrant or probable cause, has sparked threats of violence—all directed at police and members of the high court.

According to the website nwi.com, which services the northwestern part of the state, police at the Capitol are investigating harassing phone calls and email messages. Police will not divulge the number of messages received or which justices have been targeted.......


The ruling, which is a clear violation of the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, is the second such decision handed down in a two-week period. Last week, the Indiana high court ruled


Wow. Can't condone the violence or threat there of but it is not a surprise at all. Guarantee sales of firearms and ammunition go up within a week.
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Re: No right to resist

Unread postby Commodore Perry » Wed May 18, 2011 10:11 am

Why would you physically resist in the first place? If some pig barged into my house with no warrant, I'd get my video camera out and have my neighbors over immediately as witnesses. I figure that should be enough evidence for a nice 6 figure settlement. Sueing the bastards is the only real deterrent. Physically fighting him only gives that piggy what he wants.
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Re: No right to resist

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Wed May 18, 2011 1:20 pm

If an armed man breaks into your house and goes through all your stuff without permission or reason, what normally happens to him?

CDT, what's your move if this happens at 3 a.m. with the wife and kids in the next room?

Someone's leaving that situation in a body bag. Awful, awful reasoning. Those judges should be nut-slapped.
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Re: No right to resist

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed May 18, 2011 9:54 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:If an armed man breaks into your house and goes through all your stuff without permission or reason, what normally happens to him?

CDT, what's your move if this happens at 3 a.m. with the wife and kids in the next room?

Someone's leaving that situation in a body bag. Awful, awful reasoning. Those judges should be nut-slapped.


I don't want to ever have to shoot anyone, but someone comes thru the door at 3 am....... well they've had it. I have a pistol and my 870 within reach..... and a 95 lbs German Shepherd.

I think Ohio has more sense than our Hoosier neighbors and I doubt we have to worry about it.

Plus it's all moot since it's clearly a violation of the 4th Amendment.
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Re: No right to resist

Unread postby furls » Sat May 21, 2011 11:00 am

It really is more of a sad statement about our activist courts that really are not interpreting the constitution (e.g. doing their jobs), but are actually creating new laws (doing the legislature's job). It sickens me that his country (and a lot of the states) is run by an elected king and activist courts, the congress really does have no power.
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Re: No right to resist

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sat May 21, 2011 12:05 pm

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ spot on. 'Course, Congress is mostly a bunch of buffoons, but your point is dead solid perfect.
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Re: No right to resist

Unread postby danwismar » Sun May 22, 2011 11:21 am

Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself. - Mark Twain
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