Cleveland State drops baseball

[Spin]

http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/188331/4/Cleveland-State-eliminates-baseball-

Damn, glad I didn't transfer there. It will be interesting to see how much the student fees and text book prices drop...

So, according to Title IX, I wonder what women's sport they're cutting? Are they going to cut scholarships from the fat ass hogs that "play" softball?

There's no facilities for baseball? Why not. They have a freakin dome for soccer, but they can't find any baseball diamonds closer than Avon. Although Avon is a nice facility.

It will never be anything more than a four year community college with this kind of thinking.

[jb]

Good move. These schools can't afford comprehensive D1 costs.

I still think Jerry Dybzinski did more at the MLB level than any UA alums combined.

[Spin]

Good move. These schools can't afford comprehensive D1 costs.

I still think Jerry Dybzinski did more at the MLB level than any UA alums combined.

You forget the money is coming out of the student's pockets. Not yours.

I pay the "facilities" fees and buy the overinflated textbooks and products at the campus bookstore anyhow. I personally enjoy catching a few innings between classes. I pay for it. If I went to CSU, I'd be paying for it, and it's not there. They're not cutting any women's sports...

And why is it mandatory that a team has to have major league prospects for it to be entertaining? Do you watch high school sports? Do you sit there and think "This sucks, none of these kids are ready for the NFL."? Have you ever been to a Frontier League ballgame? Great time. Cheap too. Better food than at the Pro. Beer.

Instead of looking down on the MAC, enjoy it for what it is. Kids playing for the love of the game, entertaining to some.

To look at it a different way, CSU isn't cutting any women's sports. Jerry Dybzinski accomplished more than any fatass softball player ever will.

I don't know, maybe growing up in a Division 4 high school, I look at things differently.

[jb]

Good move. These schools can't afford comprehensive D1 costs.

I still think Jerry Dybzinski did more at the MLB level than any UA alums combined.

You forget the money is coming out of the student's pockets. Not yours.

Post me what you know of operational and capital state subsidy formulas for Ohio public universities an dthen I will give you a legitimate converation. I assure you that you have no idea what you are talking about on this one. Stick to schooling me on Akrin trivia.

And why is it mandatory that a team has to have major league prospects for it to be entertaining?

What does this have to do with Ohio having too many residential large universities to serve a declining population struggling with budget defecits strained by bloated D 1 athletic budgets hemmorhaging red on programs that no one really cares about except for the heavily subsidzed participants?? Hey, I love Little League for what it is, too. I just don't want to pay for it without freedom of choice to do so.

Instead of looking down on the MAC, enjoy it for what it is. Kids playing for the love of the game, entertaining to some.

That couldn't be a funnier take. The MAC isn't D 3. The MAC men's sports are filled with player who are either a ) scratch and dent sub real BCS talent or behvioral / academic baggage so bad even FSU won't take 'em going to college for the sole purpose of a long shot at the pros or those grateful for a free college ride. Want kids playing for the love of the game? Go watch a Hiram College football game. To get your gourds stomped every Saturday by crappy football players by even D 3 standards? That's love of the game.

And as for your sexist softball player remarks?

[Spin]

Post me what you know of operational and capital state subsidy formulas for Ohio public universities an dthen I will give you a legitimate converation. I assure you that you have no idea what you are talking about on this one. Stick to schooling me on Akrin trivia.

I'm not talking about how state colleges are funded, I'm talking about how college sports are funded. http://www.zimbio.com/NCAA+Football/art ... e+Football

Now if you wanna bitch about your tax dollars being wasted by state colleges, I will agree with you every step of the way.

I don't agree that Ohio doesn't need this many schools, as there are needs not being met by the ones that are there. But my tax dollars are going toward degree programs that have absolutely no need in today's job market, and these clowns using that state money are going to use those degrees to become managers at WalMart instead of just greeters.

There are professions that are in need in Ohio, and there are not enough seats in colleges to fill them. While these schools are dumping money hand over fist into worthless programs.

But that just plays into my hands. When I finish my degree I'll double my salary because of that need.

And why is it mandatory that a team has to have major league prospects for it to be entertaining?

What does this have to do with Ohio having too many residential large universities to serve a declining population struggling with budget defecits strained by bloated D 1 athletic budgets hemmorhaging red on programs that no one really cares about except for the heavily subsidzed participants?? Hey, I love Little League for what it is, too. I just don't want to pay for it without freedom of choice to do so.

Yet your tax dollars pays for all kinds on extracurricular activities at your local schools. How many musicals and concerts do you attend? That your kids aren't in? How is your local 6th grade golf and tennis team doing?

And as for your sexist softball player remarks?

Season ticket holder of softball while at KSU?

My remark was none of those softball players I'm paying the way for are going to be in the majors.

I was partnered up with a female student for a group project. She was from Seattle, and was here on a softball scholarship. Wasn't even a full time student, just playin' ball. I'm paying her way (whether through taxes or through fees and the bookstore) and she can't even be bothered to get a degree. I tried to watch, the basic fundamentals were worse than I've seen in T-ball.

And CSU is paying for that barf, but not real ball. To get back to the original point.

[jb]

I'm not talking about how state colleges are funded, I'm talking about how college sports are funded.

One and the same at the vast majority of D1 schools, Spin, and ALL D2, D3 and NAIA instututions. It is just that non-schollie program can justify existance through enrollment revenue. NFW are athletic budgets self-sustaining ecept for the legacy institutions like tOSU with mega stadiums in mega conferences. The big myth is that iunmeasurable criteria such as fundraising propensity and visibility make up for the on account losses.

State universities have two types of primary budgets, capital budget and operating budget. capital budgets are rarely paid directly by universities. The state issues bonds onto a market, and state taxpayers fund the bonds. I can, um, show you my 1040 to prove my status there. It' easy to read cause there's no vasiline on it. Operating budgets are funded through about 6 sources: student tuition and fees, state enrollment-based subsidy, state and federal financial aid funnelled through students, research grants, endowment draw, and last-dollar philanthopy. While subsidy has been on a steady decline since the early 80's, it and financial aid are still extremnely significant tax-payer sources. Again, that's me, boyo.

We can all have opinions about co-curricular programs, and five will get you ten you and I would probably agree on 90% of what is extraneous. But there are some that are at least related to academic program, mostly the arts you cite. The smple fact is that D1 athletics don;t have a GD thing to do with a student's education in any way, shape or form, other than maybe student trainers and staff who could intern elsewhere.

As for going to KSU softball games?

But it's the same for baseball.

Know who went to KSU baseball games? Parents and players' friends and girlfriends.

Know who went to KSU softball games? Parents and players' friends and girlfriends.

All the same.

In the MAC men's football eats up more debt than about 4 women's athletic programs combined. If they didn't play the obligatory annual slaughter game, it'd be an unsustainable model.

Like your article cites, if they had to break even, they'd all be at the chopping block. And all big-time athletes have negative sterotypes. Singling out softbllers is lame.

[Erie Warrior]

Know who went to KSU softball games? Parents and players' friends and girlfriends.

This is funny.

[Spin]

If it were anything besides football or baseball, I wouldn't give two shits. But I enjoy watching baseball at just about any level. I've even driven past high school games, and not having to be anywhere immediately, sat and watched.

I'm still planning on seeing every pro ballpark in Ohio in one summer. I count nine. It'll probably will have to wait for next year though...

One and the same at the vast majority of D1 schools, Spin, and ALL D2, D3 and NAIA instututions. It is just that non-schollie program can justify existance through enrollment revenue. NFW are athletic budgets self-sustaining ecept for the legacy institutions like tOSU with mega stadiums in mega conferences. The big myth is that iunmeasurable criteria such as fundraising propensity and visibility make up for the on account losses.

State universities have two types of primary budgets, capital budget and operating budget. capital budgets are rarely paid directly by universities. The state issues bonds onto a market, and state taxpayers fund the bonds. I can, um, show you my 1040 to prove my status there. It' easy to read cause there's no vasiline on it. Operating budgets are funded through about 6 sources: student tuition and fees, state enrollment-based subsidy, state and federal financial aid funnelled through students, research grants, endowment draw, and last-dollar philanthopy. While subsidy has been on a steady decline since the early 80's, it and financial aid are still extremnely significant tax-payer sources. Again, that's me, boyo.

Well that's the second article I've seen where the students bear the brunt. I know when I had to switch from Wayne Campus to main campus, not only did the tuition rate multiply, but I also got a fat "facilities fee". And textbooks are out of this world. That's all I had to go by.

We can all have opinions about co-curricular programs, and five will get you ten you and I would probably agree on 90% of what is extraneous. But there are some that are at least related to academic program, mostly the arts you cite. The smple fact is that D1 athletics don;t have a GD thing to do with a student's education in any way, shape or form, other than maybe student trainers and staff who could intern elsewhere.

Well they'll tell you the same thing high school sports programs tell you. They build teamwork, leadership, competitiveness, blah blah blah.

It's a means of athletes getting scholarships. If they didn't get them, someone else would. If my son stays focused on wrestling (a big maybe) and gets a scholarship, or if he stays in honor classes and does, doesn't make any difference to me. He can't play a trumpet or paint a picture, so he's screwed there.

In the MAC men's football eats up more debt than about 4 women's athletic programs combined.

With 4 times as many athletes. That's how they would justify that. If football gets 80 scholarships (which is questionable at some MAC schools), 80 broads just got full rides too.

Like your article cites, if they had to break even, they'd all be at the chopping block. And all big-time athletes have negative sterotypes. Singling out softbllers is lame.

My thing is, if they cut X number of male scholarships, then they need to cut that many female scholarships. You know damned well if Akron or Kent started handing out hockey scholarships, the Title IX police women would be all over them wanting more for the womens. Why doesn't it work the other way?

[Spin]

Too bad nobody watches baseball in Cant. They're ranked #27 in the country, the only ranked cold weather program...

[jb]

Spn, you seem to think I have some sort of women's sports' bias or affinity. You couldn't be more wrong. Don't get me started on women's hoops. It's ugly.

You seem to think I hate on small time athletics. I don't. Been known to just stop on a walk and take in a LL inning for the fun of watching it & chillin'.

College scholarship athletics are all a huge waste other than self-supporting legacy programs. Men's or women's. You should be irritated by all those fees. But I'm tellin' yah, programs gobbles up even more money, including state funds. Particularly from the standpoint of capital projects. You think student fees paid for all of Infocision? I already broke it down for you, so toss out your articles. i don't feel like being a dossh to the extent of throwing around internets know it all credentials, but just truss me on this one buddy.

This is a new era fiscally when it comes to public funds. There's just not enough caysh for all the stuff we're used to in a variety of aspects in our lives. technology evolves, activities and passtimes evolve, but public instututions remain inert and have hands out. They don't get it. But there's all thse vestiges that have lost meaning. Cut it all if it lack significant relevance AFAIC. Evolve.

Lastly, high school athletics are night and day from college, so don't give me that. I know it, you know it, so let's move beyond that. Other than factory parachial schools and places like Massillon and Steubenville, there are no schollies (by any other name) . The money parents fork out for kids to play is ridiculous. And the participation rates are completely different than D 1 scholarship institutions.

BTW - I am fine with non-scholarship athletics fiscally.

Now tell me who invented the hamburger. Cheers.

[exiledbuckeye]

I used to work in a college bookstore. Those hilarious textbook prices? Set by the publishers. Captive audience and all that. The bookstores carry them because they have to...they're just hoping you'll make a detour into the apparel section and buy the really marked up stuff over there.

Trust me, your textbooks aren't paying for the women's rifle team or any other sport.

[furls]

Textbook prices are the result of economy of scale. printing a book costs X dollars to print the first book and y dollars to print each additional book up to n number of books, so you get:

Price = X/n + y

as n goes up price per unit goes down.

There is not much demand for books like "The Art of Finite and Infinte Expansions" because there are not that many people worldwide studying advanced combinatorics, so that book is going to be expensive. Now that is not to say that the publishers aren't building in huge margins and capitalizing by releasing a new edition every two years to screw the used book market up, but the basic economics ensure that even if the publishers weren't money grubbing whores college books would be more expensive than supermarket romance novels.

[Spin]

Spn, you seem to think I have some sort of women's sports' bias or affinity. You couldn't be more wrong. Don't get me started on women's hoops. It's ugly.

No I'm biased against women sports believing they're as important as men's sports. And you know darn well if CSU had dumped Women's Fencing, bitches from all over the US would be on them like stink on shit until they dropped a man's sport.

Although I don't have the same bias toward volleyball.

You seem to think I hate on small time athletics. I don't. Been known to just stop on a walk and take in a LL inning for the fun of watching it & chillin'.

No, I just see the MAC as small time. The declining football attendance and the piss poor basketball programs in the West make that all too clear. We agree they should be Div I-AA. And drop some of the dead weight in the western conference, and force Temple and UMass to bring their other sports too.

College scholarship athletics are all a huge waste other than self-supporting legacy programs.

The same as a hundred other scholarships and loan forgivenesses. The only differene is a athletic scholarship doesn't require X number of credit hours or Y.Y GPA.

Which they should.

Men's or women's. You should be irritated by all those fees. But I'm tellin' yah, programs gobbles up even more money, including state funds. Particularly from the standpoint of capital projects. You think student fees paid for all of Infocision?

That, from what I understand, was cheaper than rebuilding the Rubber Bowl, which was built on a spring and due for another foundation replacement. And it had no lockers (just nails on the wall), no hot water. There's also classroom space that replaced rooms in Memorial Hall. And they got sponsors, which they could never do in the RB.

Now if they just put together a team to play there.

This is a new era fiscally when it comes to public funds. There's just not enough caysh for all the stuff we're used to in a variety of aspects in our lives. technology evolves, activities and passtimes evolve, but public instututions remain inert and have hands out. They don't get it. But there's all thse vestiges that have lost meaning. Cut it all if it lack significant relevance AFAIC. Evolve.

Just do it evenly.

Can you tell I'm a little bitter about reverse discrimination?

Now tell me who invented the hamburger. Cheers.

Depends on who you ask. Menches Brothers makes that claim, so do several others.

I don't know who invented it, but Five Guys perfected it.

[Spin]

Textbook prices are the result of economy of scale. printing a book costs X dollars to print the first book and y dollars to print each additional book up to n number of books, so you get:

Price = X/n + y

as n goes up price per unit goes down.

There is not much demand for books like "The Art of Finite and Infinte Expansions" because there are not that many people worldwide studying advanced combinatorics, so that book is going to be expensive. Now that is not to say that the publishers aren't building in huge margins and capitalizing by releasing a new edition every two years to screw the used book market up, but the basic economics ensure that even if the publishers weren't money grubbing whores college books would be more expensive than supermarket romance novels.

I tell my classmates, as soon as I graduate, I'm going to work on a textbook.

If colleges use it, I'll have it made. Then, every year or two, I'll add some illustrations, maybe a chapter, and boom, new addition. Those poor bastards can't sell back their book now. So every new student has to buy my new addition.

Screw nursing, the money is in writing medical text...

[furls]

Nailed it spin. I used to buy books that were at least 2 editions old and photo copy the problems from other people's books so that I could do the homework. Generally I never spent more than 50.00 total for a quarter on books while I was at OSU.

There were some exceptions, I had to buy a new copy of an actuarial book during my senior year that was almost 200.00! But at least it was good for 3 quarters.

[exiledbuckeye]

I tell my classmates, as soon as I graduate, I'm going to work on a textbook.

If colleges use it, I'll have it made. Then, every year or two, I'll add some illustrations, maybe a chapter, and boom, new addition. Those poor bastards can't sell back their book now. So every new student has to buy my new addition.

Screw nursing, the money is in writing medical text...

The authors make jack, the real money is in textbook publishing. Just start a publishing house....

[dmiles]

Furls, are you still doing the baseball thing? I was just looking at that old thread from 2008 on the HS forum. Looks like mine are settling in as it being their only sport now my 10th grader appears to be "hanging up the football spikes". They toured the UCF program the other day (I live right next door) which gave them a taste for trying to work to play D1. As a dad who's worked tirelessly with the boys I'd be proud as hell but CSU dropping baseball is not isolated. There is really not that much money in college baseball right now. 11.7 schollies to split amongst 25-30 kids. I would imagine each team gives a stud pitcher and catcher 100%, so there are likely a ton of walk-on's and 25% scholarship kids. One thing I told my son was you would still have the advantage of getting a couple of paid meals, laundry, etc. Even if you manage 25% I think that is 25% of total estimated cost, not just tuition.

[furls]

He kind of lost the love for baseball and this year will be the first that he does not play. He had an OK year last year, but just wasn't in to it. He has actually picked up soccer about 2 years ago as a seventh grader and made the team as a starting midfielder, which I thought was pretty good. He has shown some pretty serious aptitude for the game and improves by leaps and bounds each year. I think he has a realistic shot at making his varsity team next year as a soph, but I am not sure because I have not seen his new high school's team.

He has been doing the P90X at 5am every day for the last 2 months, so I am actually more impressed with that. That is some pretty rare dedication.

My 8th grade daughter has a better than average shot at making the varsity team next year in girls hoops. She has been playing in the cul de sac with 16 year old boys (getting pushed around) and it has made her ridiculously physical. This season was her first in organized basketball and she was a serious presence on the court. She did not lead the team in scoring, but she was certainly the best defender, leading rebounder and second leading scorer. She is only 5'7" so I am pushing her to work on her jumper and handle, but she is kind of lazy. She does have a pretty nice game by the hoop that is a by product of eating a lot of basketballs at the hands of her brother and his friends, but if she is going to have any future in hoops she needs a better game off the bounce.

[jb]

stop bouncing text

Although I don't have the same bias toward volleyball.

"Dated" one at kent back in the day until i couldn't take her talking anymore and the trade off was npo longer worth it. I can relate.

The same as a hundred other scholarships and loan forgivenesses. The only differene is a athletic scholarship doesn't require X number of credit hours or Y.Y GPA.

Which they should.

Of course they do. Well, at least eligibility I should say. There's pages and pages and pages all spelling out progress toward degree requirements. Pain in the ass. If a kid ins;t academically eligible and he / she is no longer worth the trouble there's plenty of ways to run them off.

That, from what I understand, was cheaper than rebuilding the Rubber Bowl, which was built on a spring and due for another foundation replacement. And it had no lockers (just nails on the wall), no hot water. There's also classroom space that replaced rooms in Memorial Hall. And they got sponsors, which they could never do in the RB.

Now if they just put together a team to play there.

Not what I'm getting at. The point is that you seemed to be hanging onto a the misguided notion that athletic funding is an intramural issue at state schools and students' fees foot the bill. That's just not the case. The taxpayers of Ohio are helping support about 7 mediocre CFB programs no one would miss if they fell of the earth tomorrow except about 20,000 hard core booster types. Akron will never come close to filling Infocision on a regular basis any more than Toledo, Kent, BG, Miami, OU or YSU do on a regular basis (not counting a handful of freak or novelty years at any of these places) .

No one cares enough. It's over saturation and overkill. And the notion that "2,000 for a home post season tourney" CSU actively contemplates D 1 football makes me vomit in my mouth as a taxpayer.

Just do it evenly.

Works for me.

Cut it all but at major programs that self-support.

[Spin]

That, from what I understand, was cheaper than rebuilding the Rubber Bowl, which was built on a spring and due for another foundation replacement. And it had no lockers (just nails on the wall), no hot water. There's also classroom space that replaced rooms in Memorial Hall. And they got sponsors, which they could never do in the RB.

Now if they just put together a team to play there.

Not what I'm getting at. The point is that you seemed to be hanging onto a the misguided notion that athletic funding is an intramural issue at state schools and students' fees foot the bill. That's just not the case. The taxpayers of Ohio are helping support about 7 mediocre CFB programs no one would miss if they fell of the earth tomorrow except about 20,000 hard core booster types. Akron will never come close to filling Infocision on a regular basis any more than Toledo, Kent, BG, Miami, OU or YSU do on a regular basis (not counting a handful of freak or novelty years at any of these places) .

No one cares enough. It's over saturation and overkill. And the notion that "2,000 for a home post season tourney" CSU actively contemplates D 1 football makes me vomit in my mouth as a taxpayer.

I take your word on that, it being funded by the taxpayer. Those articles may be wrong, or simply just complaining about students paying fees for the teams. Not necessarily a large percentage of the budget. I see that now.

Our tax dollars going to Ohio and Toledo and BGSU and YSU and probably a dozen others, for their sports, just doesn't make sense. Even if by some chance a couple of those students do glean some leadership and teamwork skills from those sports, most of them are headed south or southwest before the ink is dry on their degree anyhow. And college courses (Bachelors and above) are geared toward instilling that anyhow. Ad nauseum.

Works for me.Cut it all but at major programs that self-support.

Wouldn't bother me a bit to watch baseball teams who are pay-to-play. I'm a regular at Zips hockey games, became their EMT/trainer. Best times I have, outside of being with the grand kids. Can't wait til the season starts again. Doesn't matter a bit to me they pay instead of being handed their education.

And they outdraw most other sports at UA...

[Spin]

He kind of lost the love for baseball

That seems like a nationwide epidemic. For a number of reasons.

[dmiles]

He kind of lost the love for baseball

That seems like a nationwide epidemic. For a number of reasons.

Well in So-Cal it went hand-in-hand with losing the ability to hit as you moved up the chain. I never once saw a consistent doubles smasher suddenly switch to Lacrosse. In Florida I can't quite tell yet baseball is huge here but Football is king. My son deciding to go full-time baseball is going to be tough because after he did about 3-4 other starters decided they were going to stick to whatever their other sport was and not play football. So he's getting the blame of course, but what the hell he's basically the biggest strongest kid so he won't get picked on for bailing, but you can tell some kids are pissed.

JB is correct people are spending wayyyyy too much money on youth sports, and I have many a horror story from baseball. I am sure soccer and basketball can be just as bad, though you don't have the equipment costs.

[furls]

He just didn't want to put the work into baseball anymore. To be honest, I may have some blame in this because we basically stopped watching baseball at home once Sabathia and Lee got traded. I have basically bailed on baseball, having no shot to keep my favorite players sucks. Being a tribe fan is just intentionally setting yourself up for heartbreak every time the team has a good player. I think he was also looking for a more active sport and commented on multiple occasions that it was boring, he started at CF last year so he was still a good player, just not an interested one.

[Spin]

He just didn't want to put the work into baseball anymore. To be honest, I may have some blame in this because we basically stopped watching baseball at home once Sabathia and Lee got traded. I have basically bailed on baseball, having no shot to keep my favorite players sucks. Being a tribe fan is just intentionally setting yourself up for heartbreak every time the team has a good player. I think he was also looking for a more active sport and commented on multiple occasions that it was boring, he started at CF last year so he was still a good player, just not an interested one.

We could start a whole thread on why kids are losing or have no interest in baseball anymore.

It takes a lot of time and patience to learn how to hit. You can put on some shiny shorts and play soccer without learning anything, at the youth level. just kick the ball, hopefully in the right direction.

Football is king, from the NFL laying every other sport to waste, to many schools concerned only with football. If you don't play football, there must be something wrong with you.

Compared to other sports, baseball is B O R I N G. Each team makes 27 outs with nine players. So on average, you make three outs in the entire game, plus 4 maybe 5 at bats.

To just pick it up for yourself, you need bats, balls, gloves, bases. Playing wiffle ball like we use to is looked down on, I suppose because it won't help you make the Major Leagues. Playing football and soccer won't help you make Major League Baseball either...

I don't think it's taught in gym classes anymore, because of reason #1.

It's a long way to the top if you wanna rock and roll. You got Rookie League, short A, A, Advanced A, AA, AAA. And that's after college.

Major League Baseball isn't exactly helping the sport any. Crimony...

Ball diamonds are falling out of favor as they eat up a bunch of land, require maintenance of the dirt infield, you need a backstop.

It seems like you need a wad of cash every year to play on "travelling teams" and go to XYZ former major leaguer's camp. Do the best players play high school ball anymore? College?

[furls]

Well, I think we all know that there is a big disparity in MLB and I think it is really starting to affect the league for the worse. League attendance is up and so are revenues, but the increase has been disproportionate in some cities (NYY and the like) while the teams die in many markets. I know the tribe was a big part of my little league experience, so I am sure that local MLB interest has to affect little league participation.

At the same time, today's kids are looking to more action based sports. While I lived in C-bus I saw a marked shift in LL participation due to the rise of lacrosse. If you haven't played lacrosse you are really missing out, the game is all action, and frankly more interesting than waiting 8 turns for your at bat. Now don't get me wrong, when I think of summer I think of Herb Score calling the game behind the static of AM radio. It is a sound that I so closely relate to my father that I cannot handle it even three years after his death, but that is not the sound and experience of my kids.

[dmiles]

Spin I haven't been in Ohio now in quite a while and I just can't imagine with the crap weather that baseball is very big whereas it was freaking huge in SoCal. I don't mean huge in the sense of having a big following like football. What I mean is kids who were good, really good players at 11-12, all-stars, travel ball etc. can't make the HS team because it's so damn competitive. Central Fla. same way. You have kids who've been perennial all-stars in strong leagues, playing on Sundays all year, that still can't make the Varsity squad. Hell one school I am aware of, goes down to the 8th grade "feeder" teams and if the kid looks small and the parents aren't 6'0" tall start telling the kids your odds are slim.

Football wasn't so great an experience for the kid. He's one of the bigger kids so they stuck him as a guard, but over at the baseball tryouts he beat all the skilled players (QB/RB/WR) in the 60 as he had the best times despite being 6'2" 200+. I asked him if he brought up playing TE or WR, but coach needed him on the line (small school). I guess he doesn't love it enough, but I am not standing in his way if he wants to play, it's all on him. As soon as baseball is over down here you have the spring football season which I want to say is 3 weeks with one game against another school. He opted out, but maybe come summer he'll change his mind.

Bottom line is kids tend to gravitate to what they play best. I don't know the first thing about soccer and travel soccer etc. as we've just never been a part of that scene. I've am pretty sure that at 42 I have never even watched a HS soccer game so I don't know the crap they have to go through to play at the next level.

I should consult with e0y I get the impression he didn't care for the experience but I might have misinterpreted. OTOH, many of my running buds in San Diego were former D-1 athletes and seemed to be very successful in sales or running a biz. I tend to think going through that grind might have prepared them well.

[Spin]

Spin I haven't been in Ohio now in quite a while and I just can't imagine with the crap weather that baseball is very big whereas it was freaking huge in SoCal.

That may be one of the biggest reasons for the apathy here. Never considered that. It's May 7, and the ground is still saturated. Soccer and football just "play on" in the rain. Baseball in the rain and mud is just miserable.

And at the college level, the cold weather schools spend the first half of the season in warm weather regions. Which was one thing the CSU AD brought up. I always wondered why the cold weather schools don't split off, and play most of their games in April and May, playing a pro-type schedule. You would need more than three starters.

The rest of your post was very interesting BTW, as was everyone else's. I like learning more about baseball. I just cropped out the part I was replying to. Just one more thing that makes the dreary Great Lakes dreary.