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Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

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Going forward with Colt as the guy

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue May 03, 2011 9:35 am

SD:

Think this is necessary to clear the air now that all the pre draft pimping of favorites is over , so we can separate hype from the reality of the situation , much like when you make the team as a pro All College affiliations are put aside because everybody there is all on the same team.

Peeps misunderstand my stance on Colt , I like him , I think he has potential .

However he did show enough holes in his game that you had to take the position of a dating Bachelor and not view him as your legacy .

Sheet happens , if he hangs in there and beats off all comers , well allrighty then .

But Newton was the premiere prospect in this draft , and I advocated only him in lieu of Colt , none of the others , who I don't view as true upgrades.

Conversely , that door remains open to beat that drum for Luck or Barkley end of next year ,there is absolutely nothing personal against Colt , so there will be no drumbeat chants against him September , I am in full support right now.

Agree that even with our extra #1 and all the tea in China ie adding a 2013
number "1" with both our 2012's we'll more than likely get rejected like a three eyed whore, looking for a prom date if we try and trade up for Luck .

If Colt ain't the guy at least under this system Wallace the career backup , can keep it respectable and any projects we may be forced to play due to injury will allow competitive play .

But if we're never gonna be Champs unless the Man under center is good enough to get us there , hope everyone who already believes its Colt is right and my caution is just my instincts making me be more careful before I take the plunge.


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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy

Unread postby OldDawg » Tue May 03, 2011 10:28 am

Funny thing is, after all these years, we have lowered the bar, from a fan standpoint, on our QBs. We have been so bad there since the return of the Browns that it doesn't take much to get us excited. Hoping Colt is the guy because I am tired of looking and waiting for "the guy."
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy

Unread postby jta1975 » Tue May 03, 2011 11:20 pm

It doesn't hurt to keep track of the talent at such a critical position. Here is Kiper's list going into the season. If Colt lays an egg we will have to learn these names, plus keep an eye on Barkley from USC.


Andrew Luck Stanford
6-4
236 lbs
245 completions
349 attempts
3,051 yards
28 tds
7 ints

Nick Foles Arizona
6-5
245 lbs
286 completions
426 attempts
3,191 yards
20 tds
10 ints

Kirk Cousins Mich St.
6-3
202 lbs
226 completions
338 attempts
2,825 yards
20 tds
10 ints

Brandon Weeden Oklahoma St.
6-4
224 lbs
342 completions
511 attempts
4,277 yards
34 tds
13 ints

Ryan Tannehill Texas A&M
6-4
219 lbs
152 completions
234 attempts
1,638 yards
13 tds
6 ints
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy

Unread postby Triple-S » Wed May 04, 2011 10:40 am

I like what I've seen out of Barkley and would not be against drafting him next year if Colt doesn't pan out.

If we're in the position to get Luck..then dear god, I'd be grateful.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Wed May 04, 2011 3:50 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:SD:

Think this is necessary to clear the air now that all the pre draft pimping of favorites is over , so we can separate hype from the reality of the situation , much like when you make the team as a pro All College affiliations are put aside because everybody there is all on the same team.

Peeps misunderstand my stance on Colt , I like him , I think he has potential .

SoulDawg


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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Wed May 04, 2011 5:04 pm

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:SD:

Think this is necessary to clear the air now that all the pre draft pimping of favorites is over , so we can separate hype from the reality of the situation , much like when you make the team as a pro All College affiliations are put aside because everybody there is all on the same team.

Peeps misunderstand my stance on Colt , I like him , I think he has potential .

SoulDawg


Fixed it for ya

No thanks necessary




SD:

Oh No not the "P" word ....... :partyers:
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy

Unread postby FUDU » Wed May 04, 2011 6:55 pm

If we drafted Cam Newton this thread wouldn't have been a glimpse is SD's eye.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Wed May 04, 2011 8:19 pm

FUDU wrote:If we drafted Cam Newton this thread wouldn't have been a glimpse is SD's eye.


SD:

It would have been cost prohibitive as we would have moved up for the #1 pick in the draft without the ammo.

Maybe next year for Barkley if necessary ,because unless we go 0 fer 16 even three #1's won't be enough to nab Luck.


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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Thu May 05, 2011 9:58 am

Colt certainly earned the right to prove himself to be the guy this season. He showed promise, leadership, poise, mobility, and the ability to make most NFL throws.

I still need to see him put it together for a full season. Hopefully, the cupboard will not be bare and he will have more weapons at his disposal this year.

What does everyone view as a realistic NFL-QB-career-comparison for Colt?

I think a Matt Hasselbeck-ish career sounds about right.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy

Unread postby gotribe31 » Thu May 05, 2011 10:09 am

Not that it means anything, but Todd McShay already has us drafting #1 overall and taking Luck next year.

1. Cleveland Browns 2010 record: 5-11 | Needs: ROT, OLB, CB, OG, WR
Andrew Luck, QB, StanfordLuck is a once-in-a-decade kind of talent with all the tools to be an elite NFL quarterback. He returned to Stanford for the 2011 season even though coach Jim Harbaugh moved to the NFL, and the team with the No. 1 overall pick in 2012 should trade its existing quarterback to draft Luck. He's that good. If not, the pick will be up for public auction.


Edit:
He also has us getting Mike Adams with Atlanta's pick.

26. Cleveland Browns (from ATL)2010 record: 5-11 | Needs: ROT, OLB, OG, WR
Mike Adams, OT, Ohio State Adams is 6-7 with a lean frame and needs to add bulk. Although he's not as athletic as 2010 first-rounder Nate Solder, he has similar potential to make a big move as a senior.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy

Unread postby jb » Thu May 05, 2011 10:32 am

I think these things are clear:

1 - Colt gets his shot in 2011

2 - If he plays well, the team plays well, and we'll be awe-ite.

3 - If he sucks, the tean sucks, and we hav ethe draft coin, unles DeSmith ends the draft, to replace him and he should probably be replaced.

The worst case is if he's just so-so

lastly, LBS made a huge point about projecting QB's if PFF in Scout OBR. Can't name ONE modern spread QB whose made it on Saundy. Why? becsue it is essentially the old veer I offense out of a different formation with more counter plays.

Ouch. Truth.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Thu May 05, 2011 10:36 am

Mocks done a year in advance are beyond worthless.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy

Unread postby jta1975 » Thu May 05, 2011 10:41 am

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:Colt certainly earned the right to prove himself to be the guy this season. He showed promise, leadership, poise, mobility, and the ability to make most NFL throws.

I still need to see him put it together for a full season. Hopefully, the cupboard will not be bare and he will have more weapons at his disposal this year.

What does everyone view as a realistic NFL-QB-career-comparison for Colt?

I think a Matt Hasselbeck-ish career sounds about right.


Hasselback/Chris Chandler sounds right on....Colt's game reminds me of Rich Gannon with a little less arm strength....
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Thu May 05, 2011 10:51 am

The Gannon call is a good one. Of course he thrived in the WCO in Oakland.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Thu May 05, 2011 11:34 am

jb wrote:I think these things are clear:

1 - Colt gets his shot in 2011

2 - If he plays well, the team plays well, and we'll be awe-ite.

3 - If he sucks, the tean sucks, and we hav ethe draft coin, unles DeSmith ends the draft, to replace him and he should probably be replaced.

The worst case is if he's just so-so

lastly, LBS made a huge point about projecting QB's if PFF in Scout OBR. Can't name ONE modern spread QB whose made it on Saundy. Why? becsue it is essentially the old veer I offense out of a different formation with more counter plays.

Ouch. Truth.



SD:

In the troubling times ahead due to the uncertainty created by the atmosphere of distrust created by Goodell and Smith
who have put themselves ahead of the game for their own personal fame .

The organization was damn near forced to use Colt in the capacity they have .

The alternatives would have been Jake or Seneca or a bare ass rookie running our voluntary Camps , so Colt benefits from being in the right place at the right time by default more so than a firm mandate that he's the Manning or Brady Franchise.

Butt I'm not hating , he won't be the first or the last to make the best of a bad situation , and although we still have questions concerning his arm , there are no questions as too his leadership skills and his understanding of the situation , that this is his shot , no matter how it came to fruition its incumbent upon him to make the most of it.

Years past both the Redskins and Browns were two teams who took advantage of a strike affected season and gained the playoffs.

and while that tenant seems extremely far fetched based on our current roster talent level , no one can really factor in the degradation of normal ,that may exist come September to the existing powers that B .

We're a rebuilding team projected not to do much under any normal circumstance , however the current labor strife and chaos creates the perfect storm of uncertainty , so normal givens are no longer gimmes.


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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy

Unread postby yogi » Thu May 05, 2011 3:30 pm

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:Colt certainly earned the right to prove himself to be the guy this season. He showed promise, leadership, poise, mobility, and the ability to make most NFL throws.

I still need to see him put it together for a full season. Hopefully, the cupboard will not be bare and he will have more weapons at his disposal this year.

What does everyone view as a realistic NFL-QB-career-comparison for Colt?

I think a Matt Hasselbeck-ish career sounds about right.


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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy

Unread postby FUDU » Thu May 05, 2011 8:25 pm

jb wrote:I think these things are clear:

1 - Colt gets his shot in 2011

2 - If he plays well, the team plays well, and we'll be awe-ite.

3 - If he sucks, the tean sucks, and we hav ethe draft coin, unles DeSmith ends the draft, to replace him and he should probably be replaced.

The worst case is if he's just so-so

lastly, LBS made a huge point about projecting QB's if PFF in Scout OBR. Can't name ONE modern spread QB whose made it on Saundy. Why? becsue it is essentially the old veer I offense out of a different formation with more counter plays.

Ouch. Truth.


No matter how accurate that statement may be it could easily be moot for Colt simply b/c of his skill set strengths and the system we run. If he continues to be as accurate as he looks like he can be history is pointless.

Not to mention his athleticism.

IMO he has Bernie with escapability & wheels written all over him.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy

Unread postby OldDawg » Thu May 05, 2011 9:10 pm

FUDU wrote:
jb wrote:I think these things are clear:

1 - Colt gets his shot in 2011

2 - If he plays well, the team plays well, and we'll be awe-ite.

3 - If he sucks, the tean sucks, and we hav ethe draft coin, unles DeSmith ends the draft, to replace him and he should probably be replaced.

The worst case is if he's just so-so

lastly, LBS made a huge point about projecting QB's if PFF in Scout OBR. Can't name ONE modern spread QB whose made it on Saundy. Why? becsue it is essentially the old veer I offense out of a different formation with more counter plays.

Ouch. Truth.


No matter how accurate that statement may be it could easily be moot for Colt simply b/c of his skill set strengths and the system we run. If he continues to be as accurate as he looks like he can be history is pointless.

Not to mention his athleticism.

IMO he has Bernie with escapability & wheels written all over him.


I hope your right. I always thought Bernie's ability to read defenses was extra exceptional.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy

Unread postby bookelly » Fri May 06, 2011 2:41 am

I swear SoulDawg is the ghost of William Faulkner.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Fri May 06, 2011 9:17 am

bookelly wrote:I swear SoulDawg is the ghost of William Faulkner.



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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy

Unread postby hiko » Fri May 06, 2011 10:47 am

Barkley? Meh. Meh of the first order.

Color me unenthused about Kirk Cousins too.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or NOT!

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:50 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:SD:

Think this is necessary to clear the air now that all the pre draft pimping of favorites is over , so we can separate hype from the reality of the situation , much like when you make the team as a pro All College affiliations are put aside because everybody there is all on the same team.

Peeps misunderstand my stance on Colt , I like him , I think he has potential .

However he did show enough holes in his game that you had to take the position of a dating Bachelor and not view him as your legacy .

Sheet happens , if he hangs in there and beats off all comers , well allrighty then .

But Newton was the premiere prospect in this draft , and I advocated only him in lieu of Colt , none of the others , who I don't view as true upgrades.

Conversely , that door remains open to beat that drum for Luck or Barkley end of next year ,there is absolutely nothing personal against Colt , so there will be no drumbeat chants against him September , I am in full support right now.

Agree that even with our extra #1 and all the tea in China ie adding a 2013
number "1" with both our 2012's we'll more than likely get rejected like a three eyed whore, looking for a prom date if we try and trade up for Luck .

If Colt ain't the guy at least under this system Wallace the career backup , can keep it respectable and any projects we may be forced to play due to injury will allow competitive play .

But if we're never gonna be Champs unless the Man under center is good enough to get us there , hope everyone who already believes its Colt is right and my caution is just my instincts making me be more careful before I take the plunge.


SoulDawg


SD:

Anybody ready to pull the plug , if not .

Tell me how a team in the NFL can recover an onside kick on their opponents 40 down one score and don't attempt one pass toward the end zone with no timeouts and the game on the line and expect to compete.


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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby swerb » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:51 pm

Dink. Dunk. Dink. Dunk. Rich. Drunk.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:17 am

swerb wrote:Dink. Dunk. Dink. Dunk. Rich. Drunk.


In the last 512 times that the following occured (heading into this season) - having less yards per pass attempt than your opponent AND losing the turnover battle, you won the game under these circumstances SEVEN times.

This tells me a few things, 1. Turnovers are pretty damn important, like we already knew 2. If you're gonna average 4 yards per attempt, you'd better not make any f'in mistakes.

SEVEN of FIVE HUNDRED TWELVE.

At the pace Colt and the boys are on, they oughta have the losing end of the yards per attempt at least 14 times.

NFL 2011, gotta get down the fucking field.

If you give a shit about winning.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby mistero » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:08 am

They tried some down field stuff earlier in the game and there wasn't a Browns receiver in the screen shot. WR mistakes? Or QB?

Why can't he give Little or Watson some jump balls? Get it in the same time zone?

I'm 75% done with the idea Colt is a franchise guy.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:14 am

But Newton was the premiere prospect in this draft , and I advocated only him in lieu of Colt , none of the others , who I don't view as true upgrades.

You continue to say this even tho the Browns had absolutely no shot at the pick....it is a fucking non-issue in regards to anything but your self adulation....

Hardesty has 6 drops and 1 fumble in 2 games

The OL is among the worst in the NFL

The LB's are among the worst in the NFL

The WR corpse IS the worst in the entire NFL, [tho Little showed up well yesterday]Cribbs and MoMass start for no one other than Cleveland

There are 2 rookies starting on the DL

A rookie in the secondary yesterday

You and others want to draft another QB, fine....go for it....until every other position on the field is filled with an NFL capable player the suck will continue...
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby swerb » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:17 am

Just like with DA ... it's hard to go on the first half a seasons worth of games on a NFL QB. Coaching and athletes are so good at this level, once opposing D's got a book on a QB, then you know what you got.

With Colt, we got a guy that will be a really good backup QB in this league. But a guy that scares no one, and cannot beat you with his arm and throwing the ball down and all around the field ... in a league that dictates that in today's age.

Sadly, he's one of the better QB's we've had here since 1999. He's accurate, a hard and willing worker, and has some intangibles and a little athletic ability.

It's not enough.

With all this team's other needs, once again, getting a franchise QB needs to go to the top of the list.

Again.

Only two non Hall of Fame QB's to win a Super Bowl in the last 20 years are Dilfer and Brad Johnson, who both had all time great defenses.

You need the franchise QB. Colt is not that guy.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:26 am

swerb wrote:Just like with DA ... it's hard to go on the first half a seasons worth of games on a NFL QB. Coaching and athletes are so good at this level, once opposing D's got a book on a QB, then you know what you got.

With Colt, we got a guy that will be a really good backup QB in this league. But a guy that scares no one, and cannot beat you with his arm and throwing the ball down and all around the field ... in a league that dictates that in today's age.

Sadly, he's one of the better QB's we've had here since 1999. He's accurate, a hard and willing worker, and has some intangibles and a little athletic ability.

It's not enough.

With all this team's other needs, once again, getting a franchise QB needs to go to the top of the list.

Again.

Only two non Hall of Fame QB's to win a Super Bowl in the last 20 years are Dilfer and Brad Johnson, who both had all time great defenses.

You need the franchise QB. Colt is not that guy.


It's really hard to tell with the complete abortion of the Shurmur O. I am still unclear if it's just a shitty concept, poor execustion, or simply because Colt can't do it.

But based on Bradford in 2010, I am still willing to give Colt a bit more time. Again, Colt is the scapegoat, but I think this has a lot more to do with Shurmur. At least there's no OC to blame it on.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:41 am

mistero wrote:They tried some down field stuff earlier in the game and there wasn't a Browns receiver in the screen shot. WR mistakes? Or QB?

Why can't he give Little or Watson some jump balls? Get it in the same time zone?

I'm 75% done with the idea Colt is a franchise guy.


I'm guessing by the frustration on Colt's face that it was a miscommunication, a receiver option route that Cribbs broke off versus going over the top. He was singled up on a cornerback, Colt was right to throw deep on that one.

He did give Little a jump ball, think it was third quarter. There were two DB's back, but he still had a decent shot at it. Mistimed his jump, wasn't a very well thrown ball.

The Watson "jump ball" was overthrown through the back of the end zone on the slant route. Colt had been manhandled all game and was jumpy as hell though, didn't put any touch on the ball as he just wanted to get rid of it quickly.

The receivers suck, Colt played a garbage game (but still hung in there) and the play calling was f***ing terrible. I spent half the game flabbergasted and with my hands on my head, wondering what 5 year old playing madden couldn't script a better gameplan.

I hate mondays after a game like that.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby hiko » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:15 am

mattvan1 wrote:It's really hard to tell with the complete abortion of the Shurmur O. I am still unclear if it's just a shitty concept, poor execustion, or simply because Colt can't do it.

But based on Bradford in 2010, I am still willing to give Colt a bit more time. Again, Colt is the scapegoat, but I think this has a lot more to do with Shurmur. At least there's no OC to blame it on.


I be hatin' on Shurmur as much as anyone right now, but your statement confuses me since Bradford got the Rookie of the Year and looked much better last year under Shurmur, so isn't that a further black mark against Colt since he can't get done what Bradford did?
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby pup » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:21 am

hiko wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:It's really hard to tell with the complete abortion of the Shurmur O. I am still unclear if it's just a shitty concept, poor execustion, or simply because Colt can't do it.

But based on Bradford in 2010, I am still willing to give Colt a bit more time. Again, Colt is the scapegoat, but I think this has a lot more to do with Shurmur. At least there's no OC to blame it on.


I be hatin' on Shurmur as much as anyone right now, but your statement confuses me since Bradford got the Rookie of the Year and looked much better last year under Shurmur, so isn't that a further black mark against Colt since he can't get done what Bradford did?


Dude, Bradford had Danny Amaduelo and Donario Alexendar :lmfao:
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby hiko » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:24 am

pup wrote:
hiko wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:It's really hard to tell with the complete abortion of the Shurmur O. I am still unclear if it's just a shitty concept, poor execustion, or simply because Colt can't do it.

But based on Bradford in 2010, I am still willing to give Colt a bit more time. Again, Colt is the scapegoat, but I think this has a lot more to do with Shurmur. At least there's no OC to blame it on.


I be hatin' on Shurmur as much as anyone right now, but your statement confuses me since Bradford got the Rookie of the Year and looked much better last year under Shurmur, so isn't that a further black mark against Colt since he can't get done what Bradford did?


Dude, Bradford had Danny Amaduelo and Donario Alexendar :lmfao:


Exactly. Thanks for derailing the "Bradford was surrounded by talent" argument in advance. :thumb up:
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby pup » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:25 am

hiko wrote:
pup wrote:
hiko wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:It's really hard to tell with the complete abortion of the Shurmur O. I am still unclear if it's just a shitty concept, poor execustion, or simply because Colt can't do it.

But based on Bradford in 2010, I am still willing to give Colt a bit more time. Again, Colt is the scapegoat, but I think this has a lot more to do with Shurmur. At least there's no OC to blame it on.


I be hatin' on Shurmur as much as anyone right now, but your statement confuses me since Bradford got the Rookie of the Year and looked much better last year under Shurmur, so isn't that a further black mark against Colt since he can't get done what Bradford did?


Dude, Bradford had Danny Amaduelo and Donario Alexendar :lmfao:


Exactly. Thanks for derailing the "Bradford was surrounded by talent" argument in advance. :thumb up:


Anytime.

Now go get mad at me for speaking about Mangini in the other thread (mooning)
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby hiko » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:40 am

pup wrote:
hiko wrote:
pup wrote:
hiko wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:It's really hard to tell with the complete abortion of the Shurmur O. I am still unclear if it's just a shitty concept, poor execustion, or simply because Colt can't do it.

But based on Bradford in 2010, I am still willing to give Colt a bit more time. Again, Colt is the scapegoat, but I think this has a lot more to do with Shurmur. At least there's no OC to blame it on.


I be hatin' on Shurmur as much as anyone right now, but your statement confuses me since Bradford got the Rookie of the Year and looked much better last year under Shurmur, so isn't that a further black mark against Colt since he can't get done what Bradford did?


Dude, Bradford had Danny Amaduelo and Donario Alexendar :lmfao:


Exactly. Thanks for derailing the "Bradford was surrounded by talent" argument in advance. :thumb up:


Anytime.

Now go get mad at me for speaking about Mangini in the other thread (mooning)


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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:08 am

hiko wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:It's really hard to tell with the complete abortion of the Shurmur O. I am still unclear if it's just a shitty concept, poor execustion, or simply because Colt can't do it.

But based on Bradford in 2010, I am still willing to give Colt a bit more time. Again, Colt is the scapegoat, but I think this has a lot more to do with Shurmur. At least there's no OC to blame it on.


I be hatin' on Shurmur as much as anyone right now, but your statement confuses me since Bradford got the Rookie of the Year and looked much better last year under Shurmur, so isn't that a further black mark against Colt since he can't get done what Bradford did?


What exactly did Bradford do last year? ROY (Offensive, btw) over Dez Bryant and Mike Williams? His entire year was Hall of Feh - 60% completion at less than 6 yards per, QB rating in the 70's. He won the award because no one else was there.

I hate to trot out stats but they are earily similar between McCoy and Bradford. Poor Y/A is the biggest indicator that this is the Shurmur scheme - high attempts in the short passing game.

Again, not defending Colt. But I do have some sympathy for him. Good kid that does not have the physical skills and stuck in a crap (to this point) system.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby hiko » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:18 am

mattvan1 wrote:
hiko wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:It's really hard to tell with the complete abortion of the Shurmur O. I am still unclear if it's just a shitty concept, poor execustion, or simply because Colt can't do it.

But based on Bradford in 2010, I am still willing to give Colt a bit more time. Again, Colt is the scapegoat, but I think this has a lot more to do with Shurmur. At least there's no OC to blame it on.


I be hatin' on Shurmur as much as anyone right now, but your statement confuses me since Bradford got the Rookie of the Year and looked much better last year under Shurmur, so isn't that a further black mark against Colt since he can't get done what Bradford did?


What exactly did Bradford do last year? ROY (Offensive, btw) over Dez Bryant and Mike Williams? His entire year was Hall of Feh - 60% completion at less than 6 yards per, QB rating in the 70's. He won the award because no one else was there.

I hate to trot out stats but they are earily similar between McCoy and Bradford. Poor Y/A is the biggest indicator that this is the Shurmur scheme - high attempts in the short passing game.

Again, not defending Colt. But I do have some sympathy for him. Good kid that does not have the physical skills and stuck in a crap (to this point) system.


Never said Bradford was awesome, but at least he looked competent.

If Bradford played like Colt is playing, he's not winning ROY over anyone.

This is also not a defense of Shurmur, just saying that Colt probably isn't good enough to be a starting QB in the NFL.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:37 am

Only two non Hall of Fame QB's to win a Super Bowl in the last 20 years are Dilfer and Brad Johnson, who both had all time great defenses.


...and Drew Breese....who the Chargers gave up for Rivers who hasn't won jack shit

I read an interesting take from Cribbs this moring in that he says he should spend less time working on his offense and more on his ST which got him into the league.....

This is great to hear...I hope the coaches are listening

He's not a starting WR in any sense of the word...he has great skills but no receiver instincts, see: Colt's throw down field and his frustration in Cribbs not instinctively going long

Colt has the arm....and 2-3 times yesterday he had the time and looked like he was gonna chuck it deep only to dump it off....why? We don't really know till we see the whole field or get some reliable feedback from someone in the booth who sees the whole field....do we?

I'm going to the game next Sunday for the first time in 6 yrs....this is what I'm going to be looking for along with how things appear on the sideline from the 40yd line in the 6th row
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby swerb » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:49 am

That's the other thing I don't understand. If you're not going to play Cribbs on offense, fine. But why not have him gunning kicks then? Dude was our top tackler when he did it under Mangini.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:01 am

hiko wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
hiko wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:It's really hard to tell with the complete abortion of the Shurmur O. I am still unclear if it's just a shitty concept, poor execustion, or simply because Colt can't do it.

But based on Bradford in 2010, I am still willing to give Colt a bit more time. Again, Colt is the scapegoat, but I think this has a lot more to do with Shurmur. At least there's no OC to blame it on.


I be hatin' on Shurmur as much as anyone right now, but your statement confuses me since Bradford got the Rookie of the Year and looked much better last year under Shurmur, so isn't that a further black mark against Colt since he can't get done what Bradford did?


What exactly did Bradford do last year? ROY (Offensive, btw) over Dez Bryant and Mike Williams? His entire year was Hall of Feh - 60% completion at less than 6 yards per, QB rating in the 70's. He won the award because no one else was there.

I hate to trot out stats but they are earily similar between McCoy and Bradford. Poor Y/A is the biggest indicator that this is the Shurmur scheme - high attempts in the short passing game.

Again, not defending Colt. But I do have some sympathy for him. Good kid that does not have the physical skills and stuck in a crap (to this point) system.


Never said Bradford was awesome, but at least he looked competent.

If Bradford played like Colt is playing, he's not winning ROY over anyone.

This is also not a defense of Shurmur, just saying that Colt probably isn't good enough to be a starting QB in the NFL.


QB CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG LNG TD INT RAT
Bradford 115 203 1,159 57% 5.71 49 6 8 66.5
McCoy 121 217 1,199 56% 5.53 56 8 3 78.1


Agree 100% with your last statement, but through 5 games of Shurmur, both guys look similar.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby hiko » Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:09 am

mattvan1 wrote:QB CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG LNG TD INT RAT
Bradford 115 203 1,159 57% 5.71 49 6 8 66.5
McCoy 121 217 1,199 56% 5.53 56 8 3 78.1


Agree 100% with your last statement, but through 5 games of Shurmur, both guys look similar.


Having similar stats and looking similar aren't necessarily the same thing. To me, Bradford passes the eyeball test that Colt fails.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:48 am

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:Only two non Hall of Fame QB's to win a Super Bowl in the last 20 years are Dilfer and Brad Johnson, who both had all time great defenses.


...and Drew Breese....who the Chargers gave up for Rivers who hasn't won jack shit


We're talkin' a little early for this, but Brees is at least in the discussion for the Hall. Now Eli, on the other hand...

But that all goes back to having good not great QBs with great not good defenses.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby Triple-S » Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:58 am

Brees is a Hall of Famer.

Super Bowl Champion
Super Bowl MVP
2 AFC championship appearances
5 time pro-bowler

Plus he kinda led the SAINTS to a Super Bowl...A team that's beyond historically bad.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:17 pm

hiko wrote:Having similar stats and looking similar aren't necessarily the same thing.


It's the same ballpark ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby hiko » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:43 pm

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
Fire Marshall Bill wrote:Only two non Hall of Fame QB's to win a Super Bowl in the last 20 years are Dilfer and Brad Johnson, who both had all time great defenses.


...and Drew Breese....who the Chargers gave up for Rivers who hasn't won jack shit


We're talkin' a little early for this, but Brees is at least in the discussion for the Hall. Now Eli, on the other hand...

But that all goes back to having good not great QBs with great not good defenses.


Eli was HOF in the playoffs that year. Giants don't win the trophy without Eli. Ravens and Bucs would've won the trophy with Charlie Frye in '00/'02.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:18 pm

2001 NFL Draft
Brees' College Success Led To Projections That He Would Be A Mid-To-Late 1st Round Draft Pick In The 2001 NFL Draft, But He Slipped Due To Concerns About His Relatively Short Stature For A Professional Quarterback (6'0"), A Perceived Lack Of Arm Strength, And A Sense That He Had Succeeded In College In A System Designed For Him.Ultimately, Brees Was The 2nd Quarterback Selected In The 2001 Draft, Chosen By The San Diego Chargers As The 1st Pick Of The 2nd Round.[8]
San Diego Originally Had The 1st Pick In That Draft, But Traded It To Atlanta (Which Used It To Draft Michael Vick) In Return For The 5th Pick Of The 1st Round, With Which San Diego Drafted LaDainian Tomlinson.[8]
[edit]Early career
Brees played in his 1st professional game on November 4, 2001 against the Kansas City Chiefs. He had won the starting job over Doug Flutie during training camp before the start of the 2002 Season. Brees started all 16 games for the Chargers during the 2002 Season, leading the team to an 8-8 Record. After a disappointing start to the 2003 Season He was replaced by Flutie.
Brees' career with the Chargers was put in jeopardy after San Diego Acquired NC State's Philip Rivers. After the Trade, it was almost certain Brees' days as the Chargers' starting QB were over. However, Rivers held out nearly all of training camp. Brees therefore remained the starter throughout the 2004 Season, where he started every game and led the team to a 12-4 regular season record. The Chargers won the AFC West and Brees was selected to the 2004 NFL Pro Bowl. He was named 2004 NFL Comeback Player of the Year.


Use McCoy's name instead of Breese's and tell what part is/was different....anyone

I'm not seeing anything here that predicted his success or failure as a NFL QB till the light went off in 2004....after 3yrs experience.... and I'll bet good money the vast majority here agreed with SD's choice at the time...

Then he went to a team with a coach, a defense and 3 good WR's

Yeah I'm lazy and its wiki...so what?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Brees#Early_career
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby Triple-S » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:23 pm

Payton..was a rook when he was hired.

Was a good assistant, but he was in way over his head per Brees' book I read.

and sometimes, it does take a few years to click, but I could tell the guy was going to be special. Anyone watching Big Ten ball from '97 to 00 could have told you that.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:52 pm

...and people from the Big 12 will say the same about McCoy and if and when the day comes people will say ...."I told ya so blah blah blah me"

I'm not attached to his wagon...I'm just playing Devils Advocate with what I think is a whole bunch of people who aren't nearly as football smart as they think they are and if anyone here was as old as me they'd agree these conversations are nothing more than redundant regurgitated bullshit as old as the game itself...

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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby pup » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:57 pm

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:2001 NFL Draft
Brees' College Success Led To Projections That He Would Be A Mid-To-Late 1st Round Draft Pick In The 2001 NFL Draft, But He Slipped Due To Concerns About His Relatively Short Stature For A Professional Quarterback (6'0"), A Perceived Lack Of Arm Strength, And A Sense That He Had Succeeded In College In A System Designed For Him.Ultimately, Brees Was The 2nd Quarterback Selected In The 2001 Draft, Chosen By The San Diego Chargers As The 1st Pick Of The 2nd Round.[8]
San Diego Originally Had The 1st Pick In That Draft, But Traded It To Atlanta (Which Used It To Draft Michael Vick) In Return For The 5th Pick Of The 1st Round, With Which San Diego Drafted LaDainian Tomlinson.[8]
[edit]Early career
Brees played in his 1st professional game on November 4, 2001 against the Kansas City Chiefs. He had won the starting job over Doug Flutie during training camp before the start of the 2002 Season. Brees started all 16 games for the Chargers during the 2002 Season, leading the team to an 8-8 Record. After a disappointing start to the 2003 Season He was replaced by Flutie.
Brees' career with the Chargers was put in jeopardy after San Diego Acquired NC State's Philip Rivers. After the Trade, it was almost certain Brees' days as the Chargers' starting QB were over. However, Rivers held out nearly all of training camp. Brees therefore remained the starter throughout the 2004 Season, where he started every game and led the team to a 12-4 regular season record. The Chargers won the AFC West and Brees was selected to the 2004 NFL Pro Bowl. He was named 2004 NFL Comeback Player of the Year.


Use McCoy's name instead of Breese's and tell what part is/was different....anyone

I'm not seeing anything here that predicted his success or failure as a NFL QB till the light went off in 2004....after 3yrs experience.... and I'll bet good money the vast majority here agreed with SD's choice at the time...

Then he went to a team with a coach, a defense and 3 good WR's

Yeah I'm lazy and its wiki...so what?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Brees#Early_career


Awesome. You found the one guy that fits this bill and has been successful enough to win a ring.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby GodHatesClevelandSport » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:51 pm

If only Cam Newton were still available when the Browns spot in the draft came up.
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Re: Going forward with Colt as the guy or Not

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:16 pm

pup wrote:
Fire Marshall Bill wrote:2001 NFL Draft
Brees' College Success Led To Projections That He Would Be A Mid-To-Late 1st Round Draft Pick In The 2001 NFL Draft, But He Slipped Due To Concerns About His Relatively Short Stature For A Professional Quarterback (6'0"), A Perceived Lack Of Arm Strength, And A Sense That He Had Succeeded In College In A System Designed For Him.Ultimately, Brees Was The 2nd Quarterback Selected In The 2001 Draft, Chosen By The San Diego Chargers As The 1st Pick Of The 2nd Round.[8]
San Diego Originally Had The 1st Pick In That Draft, But Traded It To Atlanta (Which Used It To Draft Michael Vick) In Return For The 5th Pick Of The 1st Round, With Which San Diego Drafted LaDainian Tomlinson.[8]
[edit]Early career
Brees played in his 1st professional game on November 4, 2001 against the Kansas City Chiefs. He had won the starting job over Doug Flutie during training camp before the start of the 2002 Season. Brees started all 16 games for the Chargers during the 2002 Season, leading the team to an 8-8 Record. After a disappointing start to the 2003 Season He was replaced by Flutie.
Brees' career with the Chargers was put in jeopardy after San Diego Acquired NC State's Philip Rivers. After the Trade, it was almost certain Brees' days as the Chargers' starting QB were over. However, Rivers held out nearly all of training camp. Brees therefore remained the starter throughout the 2004 Season, where he started every game and led the team to a 12-4 regular season record. The Chargers won the AFC West and Brees was selected to the 2004 NFL Pro Bowl. He was named 2004 NFL Comeback Player of the Year.


Use McCoy's name instead of Breese's and tell what part is/was different....anyone

I'm not seeing anything here that predicted his success or failure as a NFL QB till the light went off in 2004....after 3yrs experience.... and I'll bet good money the vast majority here agreed with SD's choice at the time...

Then he went to a team with a coach, a defense and 3 good WR's

Yeah I'm lazy and its wiki...so what?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Brees#Early_career


Awesome. You found the one guy that fits this bill and has been successful enough to win a ring.



I didn't 'find' him...it started when I added him to swerb's list

Try to follow along...mmmm,k?
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