Cleveland Cavaliers & The NBA

by jb » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:42 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Tired of the dumb fucks that support a bad product with no remorse

I get it. You're in your Bud Fox years. You'll come around. :group:

by **papacass** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:27 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:And again, I like Barnes as a guy with our second pick as well, just am real scared by his complete inability to create a shot and his less than ideal catch and shoot while having a guy within 10 yards of him FG splits.

Barnes isn't going to last until the Cavs' second 1R pick. The Clips are going to deliver us a pick in the 8-10 range. Barnes' performance in the NCAA Tournament just pushed him back into the top five, maybe even top three.

With Sullinger committing to OSU for another year, it's really starting to look like the top three picks are going to be Irving, Williams and Barnes in some order. The most attractive picks at the Clips' slot will probably be Leonard, one of the Morris twins or Valanciunas, the Lithuanian seven-footer.

I'm not counting on Knight still being there at 8-10. He's been getting better as the tournament has gone on, and if he has a killer Final Four, he's going to be running up Kyrie's back for the title of best PG in the draft. It may not be a true assessment from a talent/skill standpoint, but Knight will be a certifiable hot property if he blows up next weekend. He could feasibly go as high as the 4-5 slot if he gets enough momentum.

by **peeker643** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:40 pm

papacass wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:And again, I like Barnes as a guy with our second pick as well, just am real scared by his complete inability to create a shot and his less than ideal catch and shoot while having a guy within 10 yards of him FG splits.

Barnes isn't going to last until the Cavs' second 1R pick. The Clips are going to deliver us a pick in the 8-10 range. Barnes' performance in the NCAA Tournament just pushed him back into the top five, maybe even top three.

With Sullinger committing to OSU for another year, it's really starting to look like the top three picks are going to be Irving, Williams and Barnes in some order. The most attractive picks at the Clips' slot will probably be Leonard, one of the Morris twins or Valanciunas, the Lithuanian seven-footer.

I'm not counting on Knight still being there at 8-10. He's been getting better as the tournament has gone on, and if he has a killer Final Four, he's going to be running up Kyrie's back for the title of best PG in the draft. It may not be a true assessment from a talent/skill standpoint, but Knight will be a certifiable hot property if he blows up next weekend. He could feasibly go as high as the 4-5 slot if he gets enough momentum.

Not feeling it.

Dude is 20/56 from the floor in this tourney. He shoots poorly against guys that can defend and move with him. In fact, in the OSU win and the princeton win the only thing keeping him from being William Buford is one shot falling. Literally so in the Princeton game.

You don't know if he can defend on the ball when he has Harrelson and Jones behind him. Jesus, if Craft could finish he'd have scored 10 points on blow-bys of Knight alone.

No way is he a top 5 guy in this draft.

by **e0y2e3** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:42 pm

Kanter... Valla.... Perry Jones (will go high, no matter what), Williams, Kemba, Knight, Leonard, Barnes, other Jones, etc....

We know who the top 5-8 are going to be right now.

Now if you can tell me the last time film and workouts between the end of the tourney and the draft itself didn't turn all that shit upside down I'll call you a liar because that time never happened.

Every single prospect in this draft has huge question marks. Kyrie is the most complete but also played 13 games all year.

These guys are all in an hour glass right now and it is going to be shaken and mixed a thousand times between now and the draft. Let's not pretend like players get drafted off of nothing more than the NCAA tourney for the most part. One or two guys (like Kemba "Mo" Williams) blow up on the draft boards, but it is far from the determining factor in most things.

That said, fuck, you told me the Cavs "had" to take Perry Jones at number one just over a month ago.

Edit: if one of the twins goes in the top seven you can have my account. I'll wager my posting eternity that don't happen.

by **peeker643** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:45 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:These guys are all in an hour glass right now and it is going to be shaken and mixed a thousand times between now and the draft. Let's not pretend like players get drafted off of nothing more than the NCAA tourney for the most part. One or two guys (like Kemba "Mo" Williams) blow up on the draft boards, but it is far from the determining factor in most things.

That said, fuck, you told me the Cavs "had" to take Perry Jones at number one just over a month ago.

If the NCAA tourney was a true barometer of NBA success Harold The Show Arceneaux would be a HOFer. ;-) ;) :wink:

by **papacass** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:02 pm

peeker643 wrote:Not feeling it.

Dude is 20/56 from the floor in this tourney. He shoots poorly against guys that can defend and move with him. In fact, in the OSU win and the princeton win the only thing keeping him from being William Buford is one shot falling. Literally so in the Princeton game.

You don't know if he can defend on the ball when he has Harrelson and Jones behind him. Jesus, if Craft could finish he'd have scored 10 points on blow-bys of Knight alone.

No way is he a top 5 guy in this draft.

Certainly not yet. My qualifier is what Knight does in the next two games. If he looks really good against Walker and Mack/Rodriguez, his draft stock jumps. Honestly, who is standing between him and the five spot right now? The Joneses? Alec Burks? Donatas Motiejunas? Jimmer Fredette?

If he's a 10 pick right now, being the lead player on a national title winner jumps him to serious contention for the fifth pick. There isn't a whole lot standing between 5 and 10 right now. Which may be a commentary on the state of this draft, but the point about Knight's draft stock still stands.

by **e0y2e3** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:07 pm

No one you just mentioned aside from Perry Jones will go in the top five and what Knight does in the next two games has no impact on that.

And when did Kemba's defense become good enough to define the opposing PG?

If Knight creeps into the top five it is because he does have real nice upside, the next two games don't matter. Apparently in your mind the last three do though, so who knows.

You're like a chick that is window shopping right now. Seasonal and easily persuaded.

by **papacass** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:19 pm

All I know is this draft is a jumbled mess, probably more so at the top end than any draft in recent memory. It's not going to take a lot to shuffle the deck five picks one way or another.

Draft slots are supposed to be based on a season's body of work, but in a draft like this, with no real anchor players, there isn't a lot of definitive evidence. Irving, a consensus top three pick by most measurements, played in 13 games all year. The other two guys digging a toehold in the top three are Williams, who came out of nowhere to have a great sophomore season, and Barnes, who was a bust in January.

If I'm being a changeable window-shopping chick, heaven knows what NBA teams are going through right now.

by **e0y2e3** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:23 pm

Sure, but the top pick as Irving is pretty etched in stone.

After that you have a jumbled mess for the next 5-10 prospects making a tier.

Then you have "the next tier"

Right now Knight floating between the last tier and the second tier.

Jumbled mess, sure, but clear tiers exist. Barnes and Williams are the guys that have and will continue to bounce between 2 and 7 for the next forever.

Most of the guys you just mentioned are legit at best 15-20 guys.

Again, watch barnes closely, look at his splits, there is reason for doubt and most years he would prob be a 7-12 guy for sure. And you really discount valla and Kanter pulling the standard foreign jump that we have seen a thousand times.

by jb » Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:08 pm

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=ApjbF75H5_A0FfU3f5xezPC8vLYF?slug=mc-oden_injury_return_sam_bowie_blazers040111

Skip down. Doesn't seem like there is much reluctance to come out in the draft for UC's. Nice.

by **waborat** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:24 pm

jb wrote:http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=ApjbF75H5_A0FfU3f5xezPC8vLYF?slug=mc-oden_injury_return_sam_bowie_blazers040111

Skip down. Doesn't seem like there is much reluctance to come out in the draft for UC's. Nice.

Sweet, so the Cavs will have their choice between Jimmer, Norris Cole or one of the immigrants

by **fundamentals** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:27 am

Enes Kanter. :dingle:

Just hope he isn't Jiri Welch. :hide:

by jb » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:49 pm

waborat wrote:
jb wrote:http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=ApjbF75H5_A0FfU3f5xezPC8vLYF?slug=mc-oden_injury_return_sam_bowie_blazers040111

Skip down. Doesn't seem like there is much reluctance to come out in the draft for UC's. Nice.

Sweet, so the Cavs will have their choice between Jimmer, Norris Cole or one of the immigrants

nah, man, the UC's will want to come out.

by **e0y2e3** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:57 pm

Kyrie just announced that he is in for the draft.

Barnes still on the fence and leaning toward staying him.

Henson staying at UNC.

Sullinger is still short and won't be a better prospect after another year.

Oh and the top three are all per Ford's Twitter. Find yer own damn links.

Now get ready to land the fourth pick and end up with Perry Jones and Jimmer with our two picks. (at which point my head will explode)

by **peeker643** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:10 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Kyrie just announced that he is in for the draft.

Barnes still on the fence and leaning toward staying him.

Henson staying at UNC.

Sullinger is still short and won't be a better prospect after another year.

Oh and the top three are all per Ford's Twitter. Find yer own damn links.

Now get ready to land the fourth pick and end up with Perry Jones and Jimmer with our two picks. (at which point my head will explode)

5th pick once they are passed by the Wolves in the Shittiest Team in the League Derby

Kyrie coming out guarantees it since he's about the only prospect I have no reservations about at all.

What I don't want is B Knight. I'm not sure that dude could hit the floor if he drops the ball.

by **e0y2e3** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:22 pm

Someone should make Kemba and Knight play a game of horse.

It would make eyes all across the nation bleed.

by jb » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:09 am

e0y2e3 wrote:Now get ready to land the fourth pick and end up with Perry Jones and Jimmer with our two picks. (at which point my head will explode)

Chin up. We could still end up buildng this the right way in your mind. Like the Bucks.

by **e0y2e3** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:26 am

Bucks were building the right way, then decided fuck it and spent a billion dollars last year.

And let’s not forget, no team in the league has lost even 75% as many starters minutes to injuries as the Bucks. A lot of shit went wrong there. There may only be one player in this draft as raw talented as Jennings and No big as talented as Bogut (even though he ain’t himself this year, needs another off-season to rehab ripping his arm in half).

by jb » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:00 am

e0y2e3 wrote:Bucks were building the right way, then decided fuck it and spent a billion dollars last year.

And let’s not forget, no team in the league has lost even 75% as many starters minutes to injuries as the Bucks. A lot of shit went wrong there. There may only be one player in this draft as raw talented as Jennings and No big as talented as Bogut (even though he ain’t himself this year, needs another off-season to rehab ripping his arm in half).

I know. I was just being a doosh and needling you a lil. :dingle:

by **e0y2e3** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:02 am

Just so long as you don't start pimping Kemba we cool.

by **pup** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:39 am

Is there any way Minnesota takes Irving at #1 even if they do win the lottery?

Didn't they take 11 PGs last year?

by **motherscratcher** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:08 am

pup wrote:Is there any way Minnesota takes Irving at #1 even if they do win the lottery?

Didn't they take 11 PGs last year?

Well, in 2009 they inexplicably picked Johnny Flynn and Rubio, right? I'm not sure either one of those guys is going to prevent them from picking Irving.

Not sure who they took last year.

by **e0y2e3** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:12 am

They signed Luke Ridnour last year.

And the answer is no. Kahn does what Kahn wants and he has already declared that Rubio may never play for them, but he is a genius for owning his trade rights (and Rubio blew goats balls this year and is possibly the most overhyped prospect ever)

Johnny Flynn also blows. He and Kemba attended the same school of overratedness.

by **StewieG** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:40 am

No. If Minnesota gets the first pick, they pick Irving. No question.

by jb » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:33 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:They signed Luke Ridnour last year.

And the answer is no. Kahn does what Kahn wants and he has already declared that Rubio may never play for them, but he is a genius for owning his trade rights (and Rubio blew goats balls this year and is possibly the most overhyped prospect ever)

Johnny Flynn also blows. He and Kemba attended the same school of overratedness.

I thought Flynn went to Syracuse. THE school of overratedness.

scarcasmemoticonfreebicthes

by **e0y2e3** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:55 pm

http://bit.ly/e33m7D

by **googleeph2** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:25 pm

StewieG wrote:No. If Minnesota gets the first pick, they pick Irving. No question.

Any whispers they've been tanking here late in the yr, esp. since Kyrie showed in the NCAAs he's on the mend?

by **waborat** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:52 pm

Anyone hearing anything about Miller and/or Lamb leaving UK as well?

by **e0y2e3** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:29 pm

Perry Jones staying in school.

by **motherscratcher** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:50 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Perry Jones staying in school.

Shit. We might end up with Kemba due to lack of options. Are there going to be enough players to actually complete an entire draft?

by **metalhead9x9** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:31 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Perry Jones staying in school.

Cancel the 2011-12 season, please (Not because of PJIII, moreso the shittiness of this year's draft and the potential kickassery of next year's).

by **waborat** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:05 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Perry Jones staying in school.

Lil surprised...

Oh well, not in our garage

by **Orenthal** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:28 pm

Good.

by **e0y2e3** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:59 pm

D-Will II in.

by **StewieG** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:20 am

chadfordinsider: Sources say Wolves, Cavs, Raps, Jazz and Kings would all take Kyrie Irving 1. Wiz, Pistons & Bucks - Barnes or Williams

by **googleeph2** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:48 am

StewieG wrote:
chadfordinsider: Sources say Wolves, Cavs, Raps, Jazz and Kings would all take Kyrie Irving 1. Wiz, Pistons & Bucks - Barnes or Williams

Odds to get #1 pick are below.
So add Cavs' 19.9% and 2.8% to = 22.7%- right?
And their chances to get Irving would be their % + the sum of those who wouldn't select him?

Cavs + Wiz + Pistons + Bucks = an even 40%.

Timberwolves 25.0%
Cavaliers 19.9%
Raptors 15.6%
Wizards 11.9%
Jazz (from Nets) 7.6%
Kings 7.5%
Pistons 4.3%
Cavaliers (from Clippers) 2.8%
Bobcats 1.7%
Bucks 1.1%
Warriors 0.8%
Jazz 0.7%
Suns 0.6%
Rockets 0.5%

by **JJN** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:12 pm

Kyrie probably goes first even if the team already has a good or great PG. He will probably net more through trade than whatever you would get from the rest of the picks in this draft.

Someone to keep an eye on with our Clippers pick is Bismack Biyombo, who has been rocketing up the boards. Looks Serge Ibaka-esque at 6'9 with a 7'7 wingspan and some good hops. Absolutely dominant defensively at the Nike Hoops Summit and leads his Euroleague in rebounds per minute.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Bis ... layerblog/

by **e0y2e3** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:28 pm

I just mentioned Bismack elsewhere and agree that he is a serious option with that pick now.

Leonard also just declared who I wouldn't mind at all there either. In a draft this shitty a great lock down defender/rebounder that can score with energy isn't a terrible prospect.

That said Ford claims we are looking at Knight, Jimmer and Kemba with that second pick if we don't get Kyrie. That makes me want to hang myself. I also highly doubt Ford having that detailed of info locked down this early in the process.

by **pup** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:57 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:I just mentioned Bismack elsewhere and agree that he is a serious option with that pick now.

Leonard also just declared who I wouldn't mind at all there either. In a draft this shitty a great lock down defender/rebounder that can score with energy isn't a terrible prospect.

That said Ford claims we are looking at Knight, Jimmer and Kemba with that second pick if we don't get Kyrie. That makes me want to hang myself. I also highly doubt Ford having that detailed of info locked down this early in the process.

That Ford has us taking some Euro named Jan at 8?

by **Triple-S** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:03 pm

That Euro named Jan has me a bit nervous...

by **WarAdmiral** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:23 am

Being a UK fan, I watched a lot of Jones and Knight. Neither is a can't miss prospect. Jones, is one, I would stay away from. There is potential there, but he takes forever to get his shot off, can't go right, average passer, and really another year under Calipari would serve him well. I would be shocked to see him go in the top ten, but considering how weak this draft is, maybe I shouldn't be. He did seem to have some attitude issues early on, but I do think Cal got through to him, and didn't hear any rumblings later in the year.

Knight will be a fine NBA player. He reminds me of Mark Price. He will shoot over 40% from outside the arch and is a clutch player for the most part. His defensive presence improved greatly over the season. Calipari is underrated when it comes to getting his kids to play defense. I expect Knight to continue to improve defensively. His play making ability improved, but is not NBA quality. It may never be. He has to many turnovers, and his passing sucks.

Lamb and Miller are staying by the latest accounts.

by jb » Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:23 am

e0y2e3 wrote:I just mentioned Bismack elsewhere and agree that he is a serious option with that pick now.

Cool. Blood and Iron. Reminds me of the old Riles Knick teams.

PS - When did CDT replace Dunphy?

by **Ziner** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:53 pm

Harison Barnes staying at UNC. We are going to end up with the 5th and 10th pick, I can feel it.

by **waborat** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:15 pm

Ziner wrote:Harison Barnes staying at UNC. We are going to end up with the 5th and 10th pick, I can feel it.

Hell, trade for Rip and get the 9th as well

Cleveland Cavaliers & The NBA

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