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Mad Men Season 4

Title is self explanatory. Discuss Hollywood, films, TV, and anything else from the entertainment world here.

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Re: Mad Men Season 4

Unread postby fairvis » Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:32 am

Couple of questions for Season 5....

1. Does Don sell the house? Or move back in to "restart" and do it again?
2. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned... Faye's not done yet. Does she blow the whistle on Don?
3. Peggy breaking the streak is huge. Joan getting close to the glass ceiling huge as well.
4. When does Don cheat on Megan? Because he will. Before or after the wedding?
5. Does Brett ever do the math? Or does Joan get lucky and have a preemie?

We'll see how far ahead they skip this time. Do they show the wedding? Do they show the struggle getting clients again? ACS will figure huge.
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Re: Mad Men Season 4

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:18 am

The MO is to skip ahead a few years at a time generally, and I doubt it will be any different next season. When they return I expect Don to be married, and Joan to be a mom. I also wouldn't be surprised if Joan's husband is already gone, although that does seem like something they wouldn't just gloss over during a hiatus.

Glen will be a giant, driving, creepier version of his current distubing self.

Betty will be divorced?
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Re: Mad Men Season 4

Unread postby jack_tors » Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:30 pm

Motherscratcher wrote:Glen will be a giant, driving, creepier version of his current distubing self.


That kid completely freaks me out. His lack of acting ability just leaves him stiff and looking like he wants to wear your head as a hat as he drives across 3 states. Seriously, I am uneasy when he is on screen.

Never in a million years saw Don taking that route with Megan. Outside of her grill, she is a pretty hot young lady. Dont smile, less is more.

In some ways I think he will be better, he admires Megan for teaching the kids French, cleaning up the spilled milkshake without being a major bitch, and for her life goals. He has been more honest with her asking her what they were doing and admitting it wasnt a "family" ring. Its like he loosened up after looking at the painting he and Anna did the year before. Thats the turning point in the episode for me.

On the other hand, was the painting something that scared him into living? Act now or be dead tomorrow and soon he will be back to his womanizing ways. I am leaning towards turning the corner since he was actually honest with Faye.. who will burn him severely sometime down the road. The woman scorned is right.. I guess this is the good thing about Matthew Weiner, he keeps us guessing.

As for Joan, I thought Mr. Harris would end up in a body bag but now I think he comes home as a traumatized vet who saw too much and is a completely different guy. Cant see Joan single and back on the market. Her job is no longer holding her down, now her abusive husband will?

Overall, I enjoyed the season. They completely blew up previous seasons but maintained what we liked about the show. The characters developed and the times stayed prevalent in that development and the overall environment.
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Re: Mad Men Season 4

Unread postby FUDU » Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:45 pm

Well it didn't come up as far as I saw in an episode so I'll put it out there, Rolling Stone had a nice article about the show and pointed out tidbit of info, Joan was raped, at the office, by her hubby.

I remember the episode but fail to remember much detail suggesting a real rape, as IIRC she was already with him when he was getting aggressive with her.

Is my memory correct, or was it detailed in that episode and I missed it?

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Re: Mad Men Season 4

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:50 pm

FUDU wrote:Well it didn't come up as far as I saw in an episode so I'll put it out there, Rolling Stone had a nice article about the show and pointed out tidbit of info, Joan was raped, at the office, by her hubby.

I remember the episode but fail to remember much detail suggesting a real rape, as IIRC she was already with him when he was getting aggressive with her.

Is my memory correct, or was it detailed in that episode and I missed it?

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Well, she was dating (engaged?) him at the time. But she clearly was not consenting in this particular instance. IMO she was absolutely raped. She may as well have been in a bar bathroom with POS.
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Re: Mad Men Season 4

Unread postby jack_tors » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:52 pm

I really enjoyed this recap of the episode and thought I would throw it up here.

http://www.tnr.com/article/books-and-arts/78422/mad-men-season-four-episode-13-tomorrowland?page=0,0
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Re: Mad Men Season 4

Unread postby jb » Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:57 am

Cliffhanger questiuon:

Is Don a mercurial mess who can't see anything through as Faye said or has he now found clarity and seees what he wants to be and how Megan helps him?

Jon Hamm's acting in the family restaurant was amazing, btw. You could see his looking at Megan as the anti-Betty.
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Re: Mad Men Season 4

Unread postby jb » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:02 pm

jack_tors wrote:I really enjoyed this recap of the episode and thought I would throw it up here.

http://www.tnr.com/article/books-and-arts/78422/mad-men-season-four-episode-13-tomorrowland?page=0,0



My $ 0.02 - The article misses how for the first time Don actually acted like a real father. We have never seen that before. The author glosses this over as the part of his life Don doesn't want. The author also diminishes how Don got his shit together through exercize and journaling.

I think he creates a cartoon out of a complex character, which is always bullshit. Dare I say he misses the point of the show?

Not saying he is all wrong, I see the point that Faye was a different sort of woman and frankly, I , too think Don was better off with her, but I think he is mising the positives of Don coming into his first legitijmate family situation after an abusine childhoold and Betty freaking Draper.
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Re: Mad Men Season 4

Unread postby metalhead9x9 » Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:30 pm

jb wrote:Cliffhanger questiuon:

Is Don a mercurial mess who can't see anything through as Faye said or has he now found clarity and seees what he wants to be and how Megan helps him?



Here's the thing. I think Don's been more self-aware than in past seasons. He's realized that he has a drinking issue. He's clearing his head with the swimming. He's self-reflected with his journal entries. But he's dipping his toes in change he can't handle all the way though. He ripped out the journal entries before writing that diatribe and he needs someone to tell him when when he's a got a bottle nearby.

The proposal to Megan came out of a desire for self-improvement but it screamed of prisoner of the moment. He based his decision on his perception of her as a good maternal figure. But Megan's ambitious. And if Don goes all nepotistic and makes her a copywriter, he's gonna get sick of her real quick, plus it'll cause a rift with Peggy. I don't see how Don can be happy marrying his work and his personal life.
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Re: Mad Men Season 4

Unread postby FUDU » Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:38 pm

With what IMO is an imminent divorce on the horizon is Betty mentally stable, could she possibly take her own life? She seemed slightly disappointed at Don's engagement, not sure if it was jealousy (as she knows her marriage is crap right now) or regret?

Let's not forget two people involved with the company now know Don's secret (and his new shiny wife doesn't yet), any chance Pete and Faye make each other aware of what they know, and use the info in some way?
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Re: Mad Men Season 4

Unread postby mitch » Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:45 am

I've had to avoid this column all week...recorded the episode as I flew out to Chicago Sunday night, and just got back in yesterday to finally see it.

Was definitely a shock.

I think Weiner was really setting up the difference between Don and Betty's life. She is now spiralling down the same as Don did earlier in the season. The firing of Carla was the ultimate bitch move, especially combined with not giving her a recommendation. You could just see the steam coming out of Henry's ears when he confronted her about it, and her non-answer looked like it turned on the lights for that poor sap (be careful what you wish for, Henry. You wanted her; you got her).

I'm sure Henry pulls some strings to get Carla a much better new job.

Agree with jacktor's comments about Glenn...that kid is a clown-outfit away from becoming John Wayne Gacy.

I'm actually OK with the Megan marriage. I think those of you talking in this line are right; she is the anti-Betty. Not only is she good with kids, but she also has ambition of her own beyond being married off to someone rich (like Betty and Roger's trophy bimbette). I don't think she'll work at SCDP though.

They usually flash forward close to the same amount of time it's been since the end of the last season...8 - 12 months. Can't do too much more as it wouldn't look right with the kids aging (although didn't baby Gene look a lot older? I know they said it had been 10 weeks since they had signed someone, but he looked at least six months older).

I'm now of a different opinion of Capt. Harris. I don't think the math will quite be within his grasp. (he could have also had some leave before going off to Nam). But remember that he is a doctor...so there is a good chance that he'll be a total burnout from what he sees there.
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Re: Mad Men Season 4

Unread postby jb » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:09 am

Mitch & Metal, is it possible that I can find a way to agree with both of your take on Don & Megan?

Clearly, Megan is an impulse. But I don't think an irrational impulse. To me, that's the key in appreciating this move, not pidgeonholing Don Draper into a cratoon character based on bringing biases to the work. Far more of a man with enough clarity and experience to seize the day and not a desperate mess. Not to get all emo, but as someone who is about Don's age with one foot in the past and one foot in the future with some life experience and enough hubris and delusion to think I try to live a somewhat reflective life and realize that I am one part trainwreck and one part mortal angel, I get it. I completely get it. This is in no way the move of a man circling the drain either in self-preception or reality.

And the more I dwell on the NR's piece posted, the more I see that as a sacntimonious shallow take that is based on the writer's bias and not a relevant analysis.
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Re: Mad Men Season 4

Unread postby jb » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:13 am

Is Don Draper Mike Weiner's metaphore for America?
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Re: Mad Men Season 4

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:01 am

Working through this season on DVD right now (again) and one thing is for sure:

This show is as much about Sally as it is Don.

And Glen (Weiner's kid) amuses me.
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Re: Mad Men Season 4

Unread postby swerb » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:38 pm

Episode 7, Season 4 ... one of the best episodes, any series, any season, ever.

The Cassius Clay/Sonny Liston, Peggy/Draper episode.

Amazing.

Five more episodes and I'm caught up.
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Re: Mad Men Season 4

Unread postby hiko » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:21 am

swerb wrote:Episode 7, Season 4 ... one of the best episodes, any series, any season, ever.

The Cassius Clay/Sonny Liston, Peggy/Draper episode.

Amazing.

Five more episodes and I'm caught up.


That is the BEST epsidode of that whole series. Watched it 3 times.

New wife... I can only hope that he doesn't fuck it up, but know that he will. He's Don Draper, genius, dumbfuck.
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Re: Mad Men Season 4

Unread postby motherscratcher » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:18 am

That's "The Suitcase" right? Yeah, best MM ep ever. And that's saying something. On the short list for greatest tv episodes ever.
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Re: Mad Men Season 4

Unread postby swerb » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:04 pm

All I have to say is WOW.

Having now watched all four seasons, I'm ready to say it - this is the greatest hour drama ever created. With the limitations of not being on HBO/Showtime, which says a lot.

And season four - Christ on a Pony - what a season. The entire season was like riding a roller coaster with Draper's character. The last six episodes were like sitting in the front car of The Millenium Force with him, just going up and down that first hill repeatedly. Television simply does not and can not get any better (IMO) than the last six episodes of season four, starting with the Draper/Peggy episode, and ending with the season finale.

Random thoughts ...

The writing - Amazing. Every single god damn episode. Especially the Draper sell scenes and the Sterling quips and one liners.

Draper - One of the greatest television characters of all time. How many women did he zock in these first four seasons? There has to be some kind of website that tracked it. They did such a good job developing this character, peeling back the layers of the onion on him. His strengths, his personality flaws. Making you love him one second, feel bad for him, and then hate him the next. The tobacco letter (as he’s chain smoking as he writes it) in the final episode was classic Draper and a great twist written into the end of the season that said so much about the character. And Hamm was so perfect executing it.

Betty Draper – What a job of turning her into one of the most epic female heels ever in season four. From her wardrobe to her facial expressions to her dialogue … Weiner made you hate her. Which made you sympathize with Don. The scene with just them two, in the house, at the end of the season finale … was one of those scenes … my house could have been burning to the ground during it and I would not have noticed.

Sally Draper - One of the all time great child acting performances in season four. Outstanding. Is it just me, or has this been completely overlooked in this thread and in some of the season four reviews I read?

Sterling - Great acting. Great character. His relationship with Joanie, his old school approach to the business, his complex relationship with Draper, and the ying to Coopers yang. Two epic quotes in the last episode was when he told Megan to get them ice to celebrate her own engagement, and when he talked about that guy dying as a silver lining to the Draper tobacco letter.

Faye – Two things I knew. One, when she told him “you’ll be married again in a year” in the beginning of the season, that he would be. And that it wouldn’t be to her. Because as a smart, confident, assertive professional woman who had a backbone, she was the exact type of woman a real life Don Draper would be wise to marry. And you knew Don would never do something that made that much sense in his personal life. A beautiful woman and good actress – the show made you pull for her, knowing she’d be crushed in the end. Never before have I watched a show where they made you care so much about so many different characters. And different types of characters.

Peggy – Between the early season stuff with Pete, her ascension (and talent), the goofy drama between her and Joan, and her complex relationship with Draper, she was constantly a main character, and the show was better off for it, and the story lines were always interesting. Such a likable character, and a reminder of how tough it was for women to ascend up the corporate ladder in what was a man’s world in the 60’s. Such a likable character the show always had ya pulling for.

Joan – Did she have the abortion or not? Either way, her husband is almost sure to perish or come back wounded, further complicating her life and the story line with Sterling, who IMO almost certainly dies next season. Maybe while sleeping with Joan.

In reading one of the reviews linked in here, this quote is brilliant, and says it all:

http://www.tnr.com/article/books-and-ar ... d?page=0,0

Meanwhile, dear, sweet Megan is over the moon. And why shouldn't she be? She's about to marry a highly functioning alcoholic who bedded her on an office couch while he was still in a relationship with one of her co-workers, and proposed to her with a ring belonging to the late wife of a dead soldier whose identity Don stole so he could abandon his own blood family. "I feel like myself when I'm with you, but the way I always wanted to feel," Don told her, a statement that would have kept Sigmund Freud busy for a year.
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Re: Mad Men Season 4

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:13 pm

I won't call it better than the wire yet, but Season four certainly made it my #2 of all time w/ a good shot at #1.

Top shows of all time are easy for me right now, Wire, Mad Men, Deadwood, Sopranos, Breaking Bad - in that order.

I'm so glad the TV Club editor at AV Club talked me into watching Deadwood this spring.

And I would not be shocked at all if Mad Men overtakes The Wire for me soon. Season four was just unreal and the show has gotten better every. single. season.
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Re: Mad Men Season 4

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:17 pm

Also worth noting, Sterling directed like three episodes last season.
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Re: Mad Men Season 4

Unread postby olecowboy » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:36 pm

holy cow, you ladies do love you some TV shows, don't you?

::doh::
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Re: Mad Men Season 4

Unread postby swerb » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:37 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:I won't call it better than the wire yet, but Season four certainly made it my #2 of all time w/ a good shot at #1.

Top shows of all time are easy for me right now, Wire, Mad Men, Deadwood, Sopranos, Breaking Bad - in that order.

I'm so glad the TV Club editor at AV Club talked me into watching Deadwood this spring.

And I would not be shocked at all if Mad Men overtakes The Wire for me soon. Season four was just unreal and the show has gotten better every. single. season.

For me ...

1. Mad Men
2. The Wire
3. Band of Brothers
4. Six Feet Under
5. The Sopranos
6. The Pacific

LONG way down to #7. Deadwood? Oz? Early NYPD Blue when Sipowicz was still an alc? Boardwalk Empire has promise. Dexter, True Blood, 24 all showed early promise before falling off.

But those six ... to me, head and heels better than anything else that's ever been on TV.

On to Breaking Bad next.
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Re: Mad Men Season 4

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:42 pm

olecowboy wrote:holy cow, you ladies do love you some TV shows, don't you?

::doh::


it's summer aren't you supposed to be dead?

And you know you love Deadwood.

BTW: including mini-series is cheating swerb.
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Re: Mad Men Season 4

Unread postby olecowboy » Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:00 pm

Holy cow, I am dead!

Can't the ghost of the oc have an opinion?

Read you some Hamlet, I shouldn't have to explain everything. . .

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