At whom the Browns have looked

[Triple-S]

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2011/4/2/2 ... #storyjump

I seem to recall Lainhart looked extremely good playing for the Flashes this season, seemed to be making plays, I could be remembering incorrectly though. (paging Ryan Lewis).

Interesting that WR hasn't really shown up on there all that much, I can all but confirm that they have at least looked at Cecil Shorts as well via a response he gave me on twitter a couple of months ago, and that Heckert has said that they plan on looking at AJ Green.

[jb]

Take this post down immediately SSS.

Whatever you have thought of or linked to, jta has surely linked it weeks ago, even if that was just in his mind.

You have been told.

Seriously, fanstatic link. Thanks for sharing it.

PS - Buster Skrine is a legit adult film star alias if you ask me.

[Triple-S]

Take this post down immediately SSS.

Whatever you have thought of or linked to, jta has surely linked it weeks ago, even if that was just in his mind.

You have been told.

Seriously, fanstatic link. Thanks for sharing it.

JTA is a freak of nature. :). So psyched we have a guy here for that on draft day.

And, the other great source is KFFL's newswire.

http://www.kffl.com/team/13/nfl/cleveland-browns

Tyron Smith has been mentioned as the guy the Browns could be drafting. For some strange reason, if the Trade down scenario plays out, that's who I could see being announced at the podium. John St. Clair is possibly one of the worst players to ever suit up at RT for us, and it would just be such a refreshing change to see someone with actual talent on that side.

[jb]

Take this post down immediately SSS.

Whatever you have thought of or linked to, jta has surely linked it weeks ago, even if that was just in his mind.

You have been told.

Seriously, fanstatic link. Thanks for sharing it.

JTA is a freak of nature. :). So psyched we have a guy here for that on draft day.

And, the other great source is KFFL's newswire.

http://www.kffl.com/team/13/nfl/cleveland-browns

Tyron Smith has been mentioned as the guy the Browns could be drafting. For some strange reason, if the Trade down scenario plays out, that's who I could see being announced at the podium. John St. Clair is possibly one of the worst players to ever suit up at RT for us, and it would just be such a refreshing change to see someone with actual talent on that side.

How does Tyon last past the Inbred? he may have OLT potential. He reminds me of a Levi Jones-type prospect. Perhaps not elite, but could relly be solid OT on either side for a decade. Not a bad pick.

[hiko]

They worked out NC FB Ryan Taylor, did they?

What exactly about Laurence Vickers do they not like? Is it just his price tag, or is he a bad fit in a WCO?

[peeker643]

They worked out NC FB Ryan Taylor, did they?

What exactly about Laurence Vickers do they not like? Is it just his price tag, or is he a bad fit in a WCO?

Wonder if its not more that they see Hillis as the WCO FB. Kind of a Rathman+ type guy with better hands than Vickers in the passing game. Hillis is 6'1 245-ish and Vickers is 6'0 250-ish so they're comparable in size.

Also, depending on the CBA issue Vickers could be some type of gone.

Hillis also spent the better part of his college years (after his freshman season at Arkansas) as the fullback, h-back in front of McFadden and Jones.

I think they'd like to have more speed in the backfield and utilizing Hillis as a FB would allow them to go look for that.

Still, nothing will be decided on that front til late in camp (if there is camp). They've formally gone WCO and now they're going to look for the guys that specifically fit it.

That's my guess anyway.

[jb]

They worked out NC FB Ryan Taylor, did they?

What exactly about Laurence Vickers do they not like? Is it just his price tag, or is he a bad fit in a WCO?

Wonder if its not more that they see Hillis as the WCO FB. Kind of a Rathman+ type guy with better hands than Vickers in the passing game. Hillis is 6'1 245-ish and Vickers is 6'0 250-ish so they're comparable in size.

Also, depending on the CBA issue Vickers could be some type of gone.

Hillis also spent the better part of his college years (after his freshman season at Arkansas) as the fullback, h-back in front of McFadden and Jones.

I think they'd like to have more speed in the backfield and utilizing Hillis as a FB would allow them to go look for that.

Still, nothing will be decided on that front til late in camp (if there is camp). They've formally gone WCO and now they're going to look for the guys that specifically fit it.

That's my guess anyway.

I see it how you see it. But this is what I detest about how the Brwosn reboot and change systems like clockwork every three seasons. The few quality guys they have like Vickers don't fit and get slagged off for flotsam. Then they have to spend resources on hole created rather than the many holes in existance. More than anything, this is what frustrates the crud out of me about re-boots. But we knew this was coming.

The irony is that when we had T Smith and Vickers was drafted out of CU , the book on him was that he WAS an all around FB and could catch out the backfield. he was described as a Larry Cenetr's type FB. So he works out S & C like a mad man, changes his game to fit the scheme for coaches who wanted a physical I FB to hit ISO , and what happens?

I wish they'd give him a chance to retrun to his roots game before he transformed himself into a battering ram. Becasue this is so ironic it could be an Alannis lyric:

http://profootball.scout.com/2/510229.html

Pos: Aggressive triple-threat fullback offering a variety of skills. Quick off the snap, displays good vision and plays with solid pad level. Jolts opponents at the point and is aggressive in all aspects. Effective ball-handler who breaks tackles, picking up yardage off initial contact. Contorts to the errant throw as a pass-catcher, making the reception away from his frame.

Neg: Has marginal blocking strength and struggles removing linebackers.

Analysis: A team player and leader on the field, Vickers is an offensive threat who would thrive in a West Coast system. Should also be a solid special-teams player.

[peeker643]

Maybe the money issue is a bigger deal than we know/think and they're covering their bases.

I don't know.

I do know I've gotten bent about guys I thought they were giving up on who were still there in September but to me Hillis is THE perfect WCO FB and a solid backup to your Roger Craig type (which I really hope they have/find as opposed to beating the bushes for a FB).

And dude, I run quote boxes underneath when I'm at work and my stuff on top from here because of the IE4 or whatever ridiculous version of explorer we have. If I don't then the formatting gets all FUDU'd up.

Just so ya know.

They worked out NC FB Ryan Taylor, did they?

What exactly about Laurence Vickers do they not like? Is it just his price tag, or is he a bad fit in a WCO?

Wonder if its not more that they see Hillis as the WCO FB. Kind of a Rathman+ type guy with better hands than Vickers in the passing game. Hillis is 6'1 245-ish and Vickers is 6'0 250-ish so they're comparable in size.

Also, depending on the CBA issue Vickers could be some type of gone.

Hillis also spent the better part of his college years (after his freshman season at Arkansas) as the fullback, h-back in front of McFadden and Jones.

I think they'd like to have more speed in the backfield and utilizing Hillis as a FB would allow them to go look for that.

Still, nothing will be decided on that front til late in camp (if there is camp). They've formally gone WCO and now they're going to look for the guys that specifically fit it.

That's my guess anyway.

I see it how you see it. But this is what I detest about how tyhe Brwosn reboot and change systems like clockwork every three seasons. The few quality guys they have like Vickers don't fit and get slagged off for flotsam. Then they have to spend resources on hole created rather than the many holes in existance. More than anything, this i what frustrates the crud out of me about re-boots. But we knew this was coming.

The irony is that when we had T Smith and Vickers was drafted out of CU , the book on him was that he WAS an all around FB and could catch out the backfield. he was described as a Larry Cenetr's type FB. So he works out S & C like a mad man, changes his game to fit the scheme for coaches who wanted a physical I FB to hit ISO , and what happens?

I wish they'd give him a chance.

http://profootball.scout.com/2/510229.html

[hiko]

I'm with JB on this... the Browns seeming lack of interest in Vickers makes you think "Oh, they'll just use Hillis as the WCO FB". And, you know, I betcha Hillis would be every bit as good if not better than Vickers as a WCO FB.

But then your starting HB is coming off major knee surgery and has never played an NFL down, and his backup is someone who isn't on the roster yet. You're creating a hole that doesn't necessarily need to be created, especially when Vickers should be effective enough in the FB role even in a WCO. Maybe Hillis is better suited to that, but I just don't buy that a good FB is more important than a good HB in a WCO (or any) system.

I'm hoping that they were talking to him pre-lockout and just couldn't get anything done cuz of the CBA.

[peeker643]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't what you're saying mean accepting that the Browns think Hillis is a good HB in the WCO?

Maybe that's not the thought. Holmgren let Manginin stock his roster with guys Mangini thought HE could win with. Had he not people would have been bitching about Mangini being set up to fail even more than they already do.

It's quite possible you'll see 40% of last year's roster out on the street. It's also quite possible they have guys in mind for this offense right now and, 180 degress back around, it's possible it's all about the dinero and the uncertain nature of the CBA with Vickers.

Shit, it could well be that te Browns offered him bigger dollars and he didn't take it because of his uncertain free agency status and the Browns are covering their ass in case HE chooses not to come back here.

I love the dude. Enduring image this year was him annihilating Bart Scott. Just wish it had been in a literal sense.

I'm with JB on this... the Browns seeming lack of interest in Vickers makes you think "Oh, they'll just use Hillis as the WCO FB". And, you know, I betcha Hillis would be every bit as good if not better than Vickers as a WCO FB.

But then your starting HB is coming off major knee surgery and has never played an NFL down, and his backup is someone who isn't on the roster yet. You're creating a hole that doesn't necessarily need to be created, especially when Vickers should be effective enough in the FB role even in a WCO. Maybe Hillis is better suited to that, but I just don't buy that a good FB is more important than a good HB in a WCO (or any) system.

I'm hoping that they were talking to him pre-lockout and just couldn't get anything done cuz of the CBA.

[hiko]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't what you're saying mean accepting that the Browns think Hillis is a good HB in the WCO?

Maybe that's not the thought. Holmgren let Manginin stock his roster with guys Mangini thought HE could win with. Had he not people would have been bitching about Mangini being set up to fail even more than they already do.

It's quite possible you'll see 40% of last year's roster out on the street. It's also quite possible they have guys in mind for this offense right now and, 180 degress back around, it's possible it's all about the dinero and the uncertain nature of the CBA with Vickers.

Shit, it could well be that te Browns offered him bigger dollars and he didn't take it because of his uncertain free agency status and the Browns are covering their ass in case HE chooses not to come back here.

I love the dude. Enduring image this year was him annihilating Bart Scott. Just wish it had been in a literal sense.

Perhaps. Hillis can catch the ball like nobody's business, and he's got good speed... I don't see whereas he can't be at least a decent WCO HB.

A lot of the criticism about him is unfortunate and racially based.

^^Yes, that part was a joke.

Let's look at both hands (this is all hypothetical). On one, you have a grade B WCO FB in Vickers, Hillis as a hybrid grade A WCO FB/grade B WCO RB, Hardesty (whatever he is), and probably one other HB. Right this sec, you've got a FB, HB, and a guy that can play both.

On the other, you have a grade A WCO FB in Hillis, Hardesty (whatever he is), and you need 2 other guys. Right this sec, you've got a FB and a HB.

Sure, the WCO features a lot of one back sets, so that might minimize the issue some. But there's no arguing that letting Vickers go opens another hole at one of the RB positions, and this team doesn't need more holes.

Now, the argument can be made that if Hillis is indeed a better WCO FB than Vickers then there's no point in keeping Vickers around b/c he can't back up the HB, but I'd still be more comfortable going into the draft with one less hole to fill and 2 guys that could play FB if need be.

[Erie Warrior]

Lainhart is decent, but no higher than 5th. Mixon is the cat they need to look at from Kent. Not Harrison good, but I think could have a bigger impact. Roosevelt Nix is the cat they better hope stays under the radar. Manimal.

[Loo]

Lainhart is someone I wouldn't object to the Browns taking in the 5th/6th rounds.

He put up a very poor 40-yard dash time at his Pro Day, but had he been invited to the combine he would have scored in the top-10 in his position in four drills: the bench press, the cone drill, broad jump and vertical jump.

A couple scouts said his numbers in the speed-related drills were OK, and his other numbers were pretty good, but it was in his position-related drills where he looked great.

That's what he is, and what he has been--an average athlete but a great football player. Running between cones, he's nothing special, but put him in the open field and he can hold his own.

His sheer production, along with his intangibles (more down to earth than you can imagine), is worth a 3rd day pick.

Mixon put up very good numbers at the Pro Day as well. Had he been invited to the combine, he would have scored in the top-10 in five drills and in the top-13 in all seven drills he took part in. His bench press score was reduced to 33 because he didn't properly lock his elbows on five reps (his original score was 38) and he still would have had the top score.

Again, it's well known I don't think combine numbers are important, just stating facts.

[jb]

I'm with JB on this... the Browns seeming lack of interest in Vickers makes you think "Oh, they'll just use Hillis as the WCO FB". And, you know, I betcha Hillis would be every bit as good if not better than Vickers as a WCO FB.

But then your starting HB is coming off major knee surgery and has never played an NFL down, and his backup is someone who isn't on the roster yet. You're creating a hole that doesn't necessarily need to be created, especially when Vickers should be effective enough in the FB role even in a WCO. Maybe Hillis is better suited to that, but I just don't buy that a good FB is more important than a good HB in a WCO (or any) system.

I'm hoping that they were talking to him pre-lockout and just couldn't get anything done cuz of the CBA.

I think a major focus, pretty much cause Hecket said so, will be increasing team speeed. Hillis is fast for a FB, but not for a RB. That's not racial, that's 260 pounds of physics compared to a 210 pound RB. The backfeild presents an opportunity to do that.

But it is still foolish. The Browns won't be capped out even if the old cap + a cut comes in effect with the next CBA. So just carry Vickers for a year plus a team option (the teams will all collude out of a short FA period anyway) even in a reduced role until you KNOW Hardesty isn't Sam Jackson in "Unbreakable". He's not the sort to bitch. Just don't create a hole in the only GD position at which we are stacked with talent. Dumb dumb dumb. But that's what these re-boots do to a team.

[SoulDawg74]

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2011/4/2/2087267/tracking-the-cleveland-browns-draft-interests#storyjump

I seem to recall Lainhart looked extremely good playing for the Flashes this season, seemed to be making plays, I could be remembering incorrectly though. (paging Ryan Lewis).

Interesting that WR hasn't really shown up on there all that much, I can all but confirm that they have at least looked at Cecil Shorts as well via a response he gave me on twitter a couple of months ago, and that Heckert has said that they plan on looking at AJ Green.

SD:

This years safety class is poor , this kid wouldn't get a look outside an udfa invite in other years , and because he's so slow , I wouldn't want them to venture more than that 7th compensatory pick at best .

otherwise he has to come in via the josh Cribbs route .

5 and 6th I'm still looking for legit DL and linebacker help , and and viewing 7 as no throw away bad as the dee needs an infusion of speed.


SoulDawg

[peeker643]

Again, I'd just caution that looking at other fullbacks doesn't necessarily mean Vickers is going anywhere and it doesn't mean if he does that it was the Browns choice.

That's all I'm saying.

If it is their choice then I agree. I just don't think we know that at this point.

I'm with JB on this... the Browns seeming lack of interest in Vickers makes you think "Oh, they'll just use Hillis as the WCO FB". And, you know, I betcha Hillis would be every bit as good if not better than Vickers as a WCO FB.

But then your starting HB is coming off major knee surgery and has never played an NFL down, and his backup is someone who isn't on the roster yet. You're creating a hole that doesn't necessarily need to be created, especially when Vickers should be effective enough in the FB role even in a WCO. Maybe Hillis is better suited to that, but I just don't buy that a good FB is more important than a good HB in a WCO (or any) system.

I'm hoping that they were talking to him pre-lockout and just couldn't get anything done cuz of the CBA.

I think a major focus, pretty much cause Hecket said so, will be increasing team speeed. Hillis is fast for a FB, but not for a RB. That's not racial, that's 260 pounds of physics compared to a 210 pound RB. The backfeild presents an opportunity to do that.

But it is still foolish. The Browns won't be capped out even if the old cap + a cut comes in effect with the next CBA. So just carry Vickers for a year plus a team option (the teams will all collude out of a short FA period anyway) even in a reduced role until you KNOW Hardesty isn't Sam Jackson in "Unbreakable". He's not the sort to bitch. Just don't create a hole in the only GD position at which we are stacked with talent. Dumb dumb dumb. But that's what these re-boots do to a team.

[motherscratcher]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't what you're saying mean accepting that the Browns think Hillis is a good HB in the WCO?

Maybe that's not the thought. Holmgren let Manginin stock his roster with guys Mangini thought HE could win with. Had he not people would have been bitching about Mangini being set up to fail even more than they already do.

It's quite possible you'll see 40% of last year's roster out on the street. It's also quite possible they have guys in mind for this offense right now and, 180 degress back around, it's possible it's all about the dinero and the uncertain nature of the CBA with Vickers.

Shit, it could well be that te Browns offered him bigger dollars and he didn't take it because of his uncertain free agency status and the Browns are covering their ass in case HE chooses not to come back here.

I love the dude. Enduring image this year was him annihilating Bart Scott. Just wish it had been in a literal sense.

Perhaps. Hillis can catch the ball like nobody's business, and he's got good speed... I don't see whereas he can't be at least a decent WCO HB.

A lot of the criticism about him is unfortunate and racially based.

^^Yes, that part was a joke.

Let's look at both hands (this is all hypothetical). On one, you have a grade B WCO FB in Vickers, Hillis as a hybrid grade A WCO FB/grade B WCO RB, Hardesty (whatever he is), and probably one other HB. Right this sec, you've got a FB, HB, and a guy that can play both.

On the other, you have a grade A WCO FB in Hillis, Hardesty (whatever he is), and you need 2 other guys. Right this sec, you've got a FB and a HB.

Sure, the WCO features a lot of one back sets, so that might minimize the issue some. But there's no arguing that letting Vickers go opens another hole at one of the RB positions, and this team doesn't need more holes.

Now, the argument can be made that if Hillis is indeed a better WCO FB than Vickers then there's no point in keeping Vickers around b/c he can't back up the HB, but I'd still be more comfortable going into the draft with one less hole to fill and 2 guys that could play FB if need be.

I agree, letting Vickers go opens a hole and I want him around next year. If that hole must be created next offseason so but it, but I don't see a need to create it now.

Through all of the scenarios you guys discussed the one thing I still can understand is why they would be working out a FB. Doesn't make sense to me. Even if they think that Hillis is the best option at WCO FB thus making Vickers expendable, they would still have to be planning to fill that hole with a HB, right?

They aren't going to let Vickers go because Hillis is a better FB and then draft a FB...that's bananas.

And, if they think that Hillis is a HB, then why are they letting go of Vickers. Can't figure it.

So, why waste time working out a FB? It's not like their interest in a midround FB is going to throw other teams boards into chaos and keep their GMs up at night wondering what the Browns are up to.

[jb]

John St. Clair is possibly one of the worst players to ever suit up at RT for us, and it would just be such a refreshing change to see someone with actual talent on that side.

He was Cody Riesen compared to Freddie Childress...

[jb]

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2011/4/2/2087267/tracking-the-cleveland-browns-draft-interests#storyjump

I seem to recall Lainhart looked extremely good playing for the Flashes this season, seemed to be making plays, I could be remembering incorrectly though. (paging Ryan Lewis).

Interesting that WR hasn't really shown up on there all that much, I can all but confirm that they have at least looked at Cecil Shorts as well via a response he gave me on twitter a couple of months ago, and that Heckert has said that they plan on looking at AJ Green.

SD:

This years safety class is poor , this kid wouldn't get a look outside an udfa invite in other years , and because he's so slow , I wouldn't want them to venture more than that 7th compensatory pick at best .

otherwise he has to come in via the josh Cribbs route .

5 and 6th I'm still looking for legit DL and linebacker help , and and viewing 7 as no throw away bad as the dee needs an infusion of speed.


SoulDawg

They must be terrified that Sorenson and Ventrone are gonna get big buks as FA's...

I just want one year without a stupid draft pick. I know they won't all hit and make it, but just no dumb picks. 2009 has really caused me PTSD at this time of year.

[peeker643]

Jason's (jta1975) next position look is safety. He agrees. Some decent cats later you can take a shot at but he has Rahim Moore as the only 1st round guy and probably a really late 1st round guy at that.

That'll run tomorrow.

This years safety class is poor , this kid wouldn't get a look outside an udfa invite in other years , and because he's so slow , I wouldn't want them to venture more than that 7th compensatory pick at best .

otherwise he has to come in via the josh Cribbs route .

5 and 6th I'm still looking for legit DL and linebacker help , and and viewing 7 as no throw away bad as the dee needs an infusion of speed.


SoulDawg

[motherscratcher]

Maybe the money issue is a bigger deal than we know/think and they're covering their bases.

I don't know.

I do know I've gotten bent about guys I thought they were giving up on who were still there in September but to me Hillis is THE perfect WCO FB and a solid backup to your Roger Craig type (which I really hope they have/find as opposed to beating the bushes for a FB).

And dude, I run quote boxes underneath when I'm at work and my stuff on top from here because of the IE4 or whatever ridiculous version of explorer we have. If I don't then the formatting gets all FUDU'd up.

Just so ya know.

They worked out NC FB Ryan Taylor, did they?

What exactly about Laurence Vickers do they not like? Is it just his price tag, or is he a bad fit in a WCO?

Wonder if its not more that they see Hillis as the WCO FB. Kind of a Rathman+ type guy with better hands than Vickers in the passing game. Hillis is 6'1 245-ish and Vickers is 6'0 250-ish so they're comparable in size.

Also, depending on the CBA issue Vickers could be some type of gone.

Hillis also spent the better part of his college years (after his freshman season at Arkansas) as the fullback, h-back in front of McFadden and Jones.

I think they'd like to have more speed in the backfield and utilizing Hillis as a FB would allow them to go look for that.

Still, nothing will be decided on that front til late in camp (if there is camp). They've formally gone WCO and now they're going to look for the guys that specifically fit it.

That's my guess anyway.

I see it how you see it. But this is what I detest about how tyhe Brwosn reboot and change systems like clockwork every three seasons. The few quality guys they have like Vickers don't fit and get slagged off for flotsam. Then they have to spend resources on hole created rather than the many holes in existance. More than anything, this i what frustrates the crud out of me about re-boots. But we knew this was coming.

The irony is that when we had T Smith and Vickers was drafted out of CU , the book on him was that he WAS an all around FB and could catch out the backfield. he was described as a Larry Cenetr's type FB. So he works out S & C like a mad man, changes his game to fit the scheme for coaches who wanted a physical I FB to hit ISO , and what happens?

I wish they'd give him a chance.

http://profootball.scout.com/2/510229.html

I have this same problem on one of my work computers. If it's the same thing, when I'm typing and get to the bottom of the box, the screen gets all jumpy and you can't see what you're typing.

I just put a few nonsense letters at the bottom and type above them. Problem solved. That is, if it's the same thing happening to you.

That being said, I could care less if you are putting you stuff on the top of the bottom. You just strike me as a guy more comfortable on the bottom is all.

(like this. then I erase it when I'm done)

hfidspanf

[motherscratcher]

BTW - Where the hell is "Wasgubgtib"?

[peeker643]

Exactly- Gets jumpy and can't see what's going on. Like those boys whose heads you cover in the burlap sacks and throw in your 'work van' Jamey Gumm.

And I type so much nonsense in my posts that I can't force myself to do it intentionally.

I have this same problem on one of my work computers. If it's the same thing, when I'm typing and get to the bottom of the box, the screen gets all jumpy and you can't see what you're typing.

That being said, I could care less if you are putting you stuff on the top of the bottom. You just strike me as a guy more comfortable on the bottom is all.

[jb]

I just put a few nonsense letters at the bottom and type above them.

Well, that explains your colums. They ar ethe non-sense letter you forgot to remove. J / K. I look fwd to you and Hiko like I do summer grillin'.

Your tip may be the most important thing I've ever learned. The jumping is why my spelling/editing is bad.

[hiko]

I have no problem with them working out FB's. They can work out LT's for all I care. Just the fact that they're working out FB's reminded me that Vickers is still in limbo and and made me wonder why that might be and what their thought pattern might be if they decided they didn't want him back.

JB, I do agree on team speed. Hillis is plenty fast in a straight line, but he's not what you'd call "shifty" or "quick".

[jb]

JB, I do agree on team speed. Hillis is plenty fast in a straight line, but he's not what you'd call "shifty" or "quick".

Right. He's mack truck fast. Not burst fast. But take the wrong angle in the open field and he's no lumbering stiff. He'll blow past you.

So for a RB he's meh. Put him at FB and he's lights out fast. Add a quick/fast RB, and all of a sudden you have a fast backfield.

Here's my thing. If we do a RB this year, get a guy who can stick as a 3rd own back if hardesty does get it together. Don't take Chicken George and then be stuck with Hardesty and him if it works out.

Jaquezz in round 5 might be a good guy in this mold.

[SoulDawg74]

Jason's (jta1975) next position look is safety. He agrees. Some decent cats later you can take a shot at but he has Rahim Moore as the only 1st round guy and probably a really late 1st round guy at that.

That'll run tomorrow.

This years safety class is poor , this kid wouldn't get a look outside an udfa invite in other years , and because he's so slow , I wouldn't want them to venture more than that 7th compensatory pick at best .

otherwise he has to come in via the josh Cribbs route .

5 and 6th I'm still looking for legit DL and linebacker help , and and viewing 7 as no throw away bad as the dee needs an infusion of speed.


SoulDawg

SD:

There is a safety out of Idaho which is the exception to the norm , and the only guy I'd even give a second look if he couldn't run faster than 4.65 at that position.

Kid turned in a 4.71 but has mad ball skills , can change direction on a dime covers like a corner and brings it at plus 220 lbs with no wasted motions .

No less than Dieon Sanders gave him mad love as a true footbal player ,"quote" never mind the 40 time.

GBN currently has him listed as their 15th rated safety

# Shiloh Keo 5-11.5, 220 4.75 Idaho


SoulDawg

[Triple-S]

"5 and 6th I'm still looking for legit DL and linebacker help , and and viewing 7 as no throw away bad as the dee needs an infusion of speed"

Past the 3rd round, if you're looking for someone to plug in and "Help" a position, you're really dreaming. and I know, I know "Ahtyba Rubin", but he's been a once in a couple of years sort of guy.

Key is hitting in on 2 players in the first 3 rounds, and then trying to get one other player in the later rounds. That would be a success to me.

Really I'd just go BPA this whole draft, and if theres a player in that range to possibly fill a need, take him.

[SoulDawg74]

"5 and 6th I'm still looking for legit DL and linebacker help , and and viewing 7 as no throw away bad as the dee needs an infusion of speed"

Past the 3rd round, if you're looking for someone to plug in and "Help" a position, you're really dreaming. and I know, I know "Ahtyba Rubin", but he's been a once in a couple of years sort of guy.

Key is hitting in on 2 players in the first 3 rounds, and then trying to get one other player in the later rounds. That would be a success to me.

Really I'd just go BPA this whole draft, and if theres a player in that range to possibly fill a need, take him.

SD:

So you proposing we spend draft reources on your KSU alum after the third your giving me grief about was fer shits and giggles and a waste of time , well alrighty then.

Good teams find late round gems all the time , which was a big criticism of mine last year in regards to Heckert .

Casey Mathews is a damn fine football player and I don't expect him to be picked before the 4th.

With the DL class so deep particularly at DE I expect to find help from the small schools ,

schools which might get overlooked .

Deacon Jones, Buck Buchannaon and Willie Lanier all came from schools small enough to fit in KSU auditorium , so don't tell me I'm joking when I expect a GM and this scouting department to get busy and dig em up .

When Deac got picked the draft ran into the teens and he didn't go until somewhere around 14.

Sheeeeit Lagareette blunt didn't even get drafted if you need further proof these lazy humps just ain't doin their jobs , no matter how much they want you to think otherwise.


SoulDawg

[motherscratcher]

(All of a sudden my trick for posting below the quote isn't working for some reason)

When is this Keo kid projected right now? I have no problem taking a late round pick, which I assume he is, on a safetly with upside. That 40 time does give me pause, though.

Wasn't that ultimately the problem with Assante? Wasn't he just a little too slow? I know I could be wrong about that.

Jason's (jta1975) next position look is safety. He agrees. Some decent cats later you can take a shot at but he has Rahim Moore as the only 1st round guy and probably a really late 1st round guy at that.

That'll run tomorrow.

This years safety class is poor , this kid wouldn't get a look outside an udfa invite in other years , and because he's so slow , I wouldn't want them to venture more than that 7th compensatory pick at best .

otherwise he has to come in via the josh Cribbs route .

5 and 6th I'm still looking for legit DL and linebacker help , and and viewing 7 as no throw away bad as the dee needs an infusion of speed.


SoulDawg

SD:

There is a safety out of Idaho which is the exception to the norm , and the only guy I'd even give a second look if he couldn't run faster than 4.65 at that position.

Kid turned in a 4.71 but has mad ball skills , can change direction on a dime covers like a corner and brings it at plus 220 lbs with no wasted motions .

No less than Dieon Sanders gave him mad love as a true footbal player ,"quote" never mind the 40 time.

GBN currently has him listed as their 15th rated safety

# Shiloh Keo 5-11.5, 220 4.75 Idaho


SoulDawg

[hiko]

Good teams find late round gems all the time , which was a big criticism of mine last year in regards to Heckert .

The book is still way out on Asante, Mitchell, and Geathers.

[Triple-S]

I like Lainhart, and would like to see him succeed, but the chances are "Eh" if he does. Though to be fair, it's not like there's a presedence or anything of KSU alums being solid pros ;) (usama young, abram elam, josh cribs..etc)

I'm just saying, you're not going to hit on all the picks, and better it be the important ones, the ones where you particularly have a lot of money invested in, than to be ones that are you're 5th round picks.

[SoulDawg74]

(All of a sudden my trick for posting below the quote isn't working for some reason)

When is this Keo kid projected right now? I have no problem taking a late round pick, which I assume he is, on a safetly with upside. That 40 time does give me pause, though.

Wasn't that ultimately the problem with Assante? Wasn't he just a little too slow? I know I could be wrong about that.

Jason's (jta1975) next position look is safety. He agrees. Some decent cats later you can take a shot at but he has Rahim Moore as the only 1st round guy and probably a really late 1st round guy at that.

That'll run tomorrow.

This years safety class is poor , this kid wouldn't get a look outside an udfa invite in other years , and because he's so slow , I wouldn't want them to venture more than that 7th compensatory pick at best .

otherwise he has to come in via the josh Cribbs route .

5 and 6th I'm still looking for legit DL and linebacker help , and and viewing 7 as no throw away bad as the dee needs an infusion of speed.


SoulDawg

SD:

There is a safety out of Idaho which is the exception to the norm , and the only guy I'd even give a second look if he couldn't run faster than 4.65 at that position.

Kid turned in a 4.71 but has mad ball skills , can change direction on a dime covers like a corner and brings it at plus 220 lbs with no wasted motions .

No less than Dieon Sanders gave him mad love as a true footbal player ,"quote" never mind the 40 time.

GBN currently has him listed as their 15th rated safety

# Shiloh Keo 5-11.5, 220 4.75 Idaho


SoulDawg

SD:

No doubt you look at that 40 time and do one of two things , start gagging or look at who mentioned him with a Jaundiced eye , if not both.

However followed this guy thruought the drills and saw what Dieon said which seperated his play from that time .

He has true football speed , no wasted motion a saftey with coverage skills that will be moving that fast at 220lbs with pads as these other guys do stripped down in shorts , instinctive and decisive with an instant change of direction and fluid footwork.

Asante was big but thats all , took bad angles and couldn't cover a picnic table
with a circus tent and had the instincts of a wooden table .


SoulDawg

[peeker643]

Good teams find late round gems all the time , which was a big criticism of mine last year in regards to Heckert .

The book is still way out on Asante, Mitchell, and Geathers.

Typically those late round picks don't step in and displace veterans. Give it this season and next and see where those picks are.

[JacksonDysonJackson]

Wasn't Geathers released?

[SoulDawg74]

Good teams find late round gems all the time , which was a big criticism of mine last year in regards to Heckert .

The book is still way out on Asante, Mitchell, and Geathers.

Typically those late round picks don't step in and displace veterans. Give it this season and next and see where those picks are.

SD:

Geathers got cut early signed by another team , and we never got him back IIRC.

Asante was disappointing considering where he was picked and his lack of production relative to the competition.

Mitchells growth was stunted as a direct result of mangy being an idiot in regards to the wideouts in general ,and finding a way to utilize talented rookies in particular, there is no excuse that they couldn't work this kid in there somewhere and cut his teeth .

If it wasn't anything more than blocking for a Hillis pitchout , instead we got a dose of that undersized Jet palooka , whose single claim to fame is gift wrapping a Victory for the Jets in overtime.


SoulDawg

SoulDawg

[hiko]

Geathers got cut early signed by another team , and we never got him back IIRC.

Asante was disappointing considering where he was picked and his lack of production relative to the competition.

Mitchells growth was stunted as a direct result of mangy being an idiot in regards to the wideouts in general ,and finding a way to utilize talented rookies in particular, there is no excuse that they couldn't work this kid in there somewhere and cut his teeth .

If it wasn't anything more than blocking for a Hillis pitchout , instead we got a dose of that undersized Jet palooka , whose single claim to fame is gift wrapping a Victory for the Jets in overtime.


SoulDawg

SoulDawg

Just because Geathers is gone doesn't mean he won't be decent. They were trying to sneak him onto the Practice Squad, but Miami thought enough of him to steal him away. It's a wasted pick, but not necessarily a bad pick. I don't know whose call it was to try and sneak him to the PS - Mangini tried (and failed) that a couple times. But the actual talent evaluation of the pick itself is still up in the air.

Mitchell I still have hope for. I'm of course not privvy to practice, etc., but it felt like Mangini misused him. At the very least, he should've seen a lot more PT at the end of the season when there was nothing left to play for.

Asante, all I saw of him was in the Preseason, where he was underwhelming. Every draft has a dud - Asante could be that dud.

[motherscratcher]

I thought Geathers and Asante were both gone. Am I wrong about that?

[hiko]

I thought Geathers and Asante were both gone. Am I wrong about that?

Geathers got signed by Miami when the Browns tried to move him to the PS after the final cuts. Not sure how much he did there.

Asante was on the PS most of the year, until Tampa signed him to their active roster at the end of the season. He played in the last 2 games and had a pick.

These guys were obviously good enough that other people wanted them. So even though they are gone, I don't fault the pick itself. The fault lies with the handling of them afterwards (assuming they have decent careers).

[SoulDawg74]

Geathers got cut early signed by another team , and we never got him back IIRC.

Asante was disappointing considering where he was picked and his lack of production relative to the competition.

Mitchells growth was stunted as a direct result of mangy being an idiot in regards to the wideouts in general ,and finding a way to utilize talented rookies in particular, there is no excuse that they couldn't work this kid in there somewhere and cut his teeth .

If it wasn't anything more than blocking for a Hillis pitchout , instead we got a dose of that undersized Jet palooka , whose single claim to fame is gift wrapping a Victory for the Jets in overtime.


SoulDawg

SoulDawg

Just because Geathers is gone doesn't mean he won't be decent. They were trying to sneak him onto the Practice Squad, but Miami thought enough of him to steal him away. It's a wasted pick, but not necessarily a bad pick. I don't know whose call it was to try and sneak him to the PS - Mangini tried (and failed) that a couple times. But the actual talent evaluation of the pick itself is still up in the air.

Mitchell I still have hope for. I'm of course not privvy to practice, etc., but it felt like Mangini misused him. At the very least, he should've seen a lot more PT at the end of the season when there was nothing left to play for.

Asante, all I saw of him was in the Preseason, where he was underwhelming. Every draft has a dud - Asante could be that dud.

SD:

Your preachin to the choir about the Browns distain for making better use of their talent , on this issue we are in lock step .

Geathers was too good an athlete to get screwed outta , and Mitchell had to much promise to be wanted for playing time especially on that roster .

Sheesh will it ner end .

In back to back Years we released Lomas Brown who started for the winning Superbowl team the next year and Greg Spires who won a ring with Tampa the following year , and while he was with Cleveland all he did was make plays , yet got mysteriously released while Courtney played musical Ghairs on and off the injury list .

Our scouting has been consistently inept and player development damn near non existent awhile the true magnitude of the ineptitude has been covered up by all the continuous reboots .

You can look on a half a dozen rosters around the league and find guys starting and contributing that we cut and couldn't make our pitiful team.

Its disgusting .

SoulDawg

[peeker643]

Don Carey.

That one still pisses me off.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Just draft the BPA and be fucking done with it.

So many holes it's bound to plug one of them.

[Erie Warrior]

Pick up Ras'I Dowling in the 3rd/ 4th, move him to safety. Good player on crappy teams.

[jb]

Don Carey.

That one still pisses me off.

See also, Hiko's post on Geather. Now that Mangina is gone, something I won't miss is his misguided obsession with roster spot 53 at the cost of projects like carey and geathers.

[jb]

Our scouting has been consistently inept and player development damn near non existent awhile the true magnitude of the ineptitude has been covered up by all the continuous reboots .

I think you got that abit backwards my man. Our scouting has been better ( just a little) than most might think BECAUSE of the consistent re-boots and the resulting lack of a coherent development program that has let some decent role players go. Been happening since Phil's ego got in the way. This HAS to stop.

Then again, you need some luck. As much as fans think the Inbred have the standard fr PDP , an dthey are , remember those doofuses cut Harrison and he was a Ratbird for a cup a joe. Even the great Ozzie let that one slip through his fingers. Imagine him and T-Rex as bookends for the lst 5 years?

[SoulDawg74]

Our scouting has been consistently inept and player development damn near non existent awhile the true magnitude of the ineptitude has been covered up by all the continuous reboots .

I think you got that abit backwards my man. Our scouting has been better ( just a little) than most might think BECAUSE of the consistent re-boots and the resulting lack of a coherent development program that has let some decent role players go. Been happening since Phil's ego got in the way. This HAS to stop.

Then again, you need some luck. As much as fans think the Inbred have the standard fr PDP , an dthey are , remember those doofuses cut Harrison and he was a Ratbird for a cup a joe. Even the great Ozzie let that one slip through his fingers. Imagine him and T-Rex as bookends for the lst 5 years?

SD:

I dunno we failed to draft a linebacker in a draft which had Arrington Urlacher and Bullock .

We didn't even interview McNabb and Culpepper in a draft which had Couch Akillme Mcnabb McCown and Culpepeper.

We drafted Quincy Morgan in liue of Chad Johnson .

We picked Braylon instead of Aaron Rodgers or lights out or Ware .

We settle for Faine when the inbred moved up and nab polly long hair .

We trade up for Winslow , while passing Rottenberger too the inbred thus making them strong and us weak .

We nab Little penny instead of Seymor or Ladanian Tomlinson.

We trade the Sanchise for three old turbo props and a fake resereve QB enroute to trading past both Josh Freeman and Clay mathews junior for a center , add two second round picks and waste both of them passing on a strting RT (vikings) and that linebacker playing for Cincy for two wannabee receivers while the inbred grab an all pro who is bigger and faster than both two rounds later.

Last year when things are supposed to be difeent , we waste two precious picks trading up fo an inhury prone rb who wait for it now got injuried before we play a down , while going to sleep leaving Lagarette blount on the board amongst others.

I could do better with two computers and couple of my friends , so don't tell me our scouting department is worth a fiddlers fuck , because all the evidence points to the contrary.


Souldawg

[JacksonDysonJackson]

Dumb (honest) question...doesnt our scouting dept change by regime?

[SoulDawg74]

Dumb (honest) question...doesnt our scouting dept change by regime?

SD:

Not for us because the more we change the more we stay the same.

My post covered the last 12 years of them fucking up .

Stop me when you see improvement.


SoulDawg

[JacksonDysonJackson]

SD, I'm Bill Clinton and I feel your pain. I was just confused since, it appeared everyone was lumping all of the various scouting depts into one, whether they actually changed when from teh Clark era to the Butch era to the Savage era to now. Or if there was substantial holdovers. Not sure how you find that out, and not worth the effort. From all accounts, Heckert and his scouts had a nice draft last year. I'll give them a pass on missing on a character-issue guy like Blount. I'll start worrying when we start drafting long snappers and linebackers from schools that finished 0-12.

[motherscratcher]

Dumb (honest) question...doesnt our scouting dept change by regime?

SD:

Not for us because the more we change the more we stay the same.

My post covered the last 12 years of them fucking up .

Stop me when you see improvement.


SoulDawg

you're hindsight is 20/20 SD.

Here's what I would like. I'd like for you to make your picks during the draft this year. When the Browns are picking, you can let everyone know who you would pick instead. Maybe Peek can archive it and we can revisit it down the road.

I'm not even saying this to bust your chops. I'm really curious. I'd like to see who guys like JB, JTA, Peek and Hiko do too.

I think it might be interesting.