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Atlanta Wants Green/Trade Down?

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Atlanta Wants Green/Trade Down?

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:22 pm

Hmm...

Do you do it?

Do you do it if you can get their 1st and 2nd this year and their 1st next year instead of their 2nd next year?



http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-falcons-bl ... a-j-green/

For the upcoming draft, the Cincinnati Bengals (fourth overall) and the Cleveland Browns (sixth) are considered strong possibilities for Green. Carolina, which has the No. 1 overall pick, is likely going defense or quarterback. Denver (second) and Buffalo (third) are not heavily scouting receivers. Arizona, in need of a quarterback, is picking fifth.

So if Green gets past Cincinnati, the Falcons will be on the phone with Mike Holmgren and the Cleveland Browns.

The Browns, who may want to amass picks, traded out of the No. 5 spot in 2009. Under a different regime, they sent the No. 5 pick to the New York Jets (Mark Sanchez) for the 17the pick, a second rounder and three players that were coveted by their former coach Eric Mangini.

Green wouldn’t come cheaply. The Falcons, since players can’t be traded because of the labor situation, would have to yield their No. 1 and No. 2 this year and likely their No. 2 for next year.
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Re: Atlanta Wants Green/Trade Down?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:31 pm

No.

I think the guy who wrote that is crazy. He says "likely their #2 for next year" like it's a huge prize.

No way we trade from #6 all the way down to #27 for a couple second rounders. Especially with the likely implementation of a rookie wage scale.

I don't do it, even with Atlanta's 1st next year as well. They will probably have another low pick again.
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Re: Atlanta Wants Green/Trade Down?

Unread postby fairvis » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:38 pm

Draft value chart gives 1600 points to the 6th pick, and 680 points to the 27th pick. Combined with the second round pick (59), the package would be 1600 points for the Browns, 990 for the Falcons. Definitely have to see next year's second, and maybe even next year's first for the drop of 21 positions.

Since this draft is balls-deep in DL, it wouldn't be a bad choice. Depends how much the dropoff that the FO thinks there is from Quinn/Bowers at 6 to a Clayborne/Heyward type that would be available at the end of the first, as well as Green/Jones to Baldwin/Hankerson. Have to figure that next year's first would be a pick in the mid-20s at best given the way Atlanta's been over the past few years.

If they did it, they could probably also package together ATL's pick with our third (27th and 70th) to move up into the high-teens (say New England's) in case someone slips.
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Re: Atlanta Wants Green/Trade Down?

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:40 pm

peeker643 wrote:Hmm...

Do you do it?

Do you do it if you can get their 1st and 2nd this year and their 1st next year instead of their 2nd next year?



http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-falcons-bl ... a-j-green/

For the upcoming draft, the Cincinnati Bengals (fourth overall) and the Cleveland Browns (sixth) are considered strong possibilities for Green. Carolina, which has the No. 1 overall pick, is likely going defense or quarterback. Denver (second) and Buffalo (third) are not heavily scouting receivers. Arizona, in need of a quarterback, is picking fifth.

So if Green gets past Cincinnati, the Falcons will be on the phone with Mike Holmgren and the Cleveland Browns.

The Browns, who may want to amass picks, traded out of the No. 5 spot in 2009. Under a different regime, they sent the No. 5 pick to the New York Jets (Mark Sanchez) for the 17the pick, a second rounder and three players that were coveted by their former coach Eric Mangini.

Green wouldn’t come cheaply. The Falcons, since players can’t be traded because of the labor situation, would have to yield their No. 1 and No. 2 this year and likely their No. 2 for next year.


SD:

I tell them to pound salt with that deal as constructed .

There maynot be a draft next year .

and there entire draft this year doesn't equate to the correct ammo , although I definately would have to think hard about that.


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Re: Atlanta Wants Green/Trade Down?

Unread postby Ziner » Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:05 pm

peeker643 wrote:Do you do it if you can get their 1st and 2nd this year and their 1st next year instead of their 2nd next year?



That is what it would require for me to think about it. If they made an offer like that it would be tough to turn down because it sure is nice to acquire assets. Acquiring assets like NE allows you to really wheel and deal and run an more efficient draft. We would still add talent this year and add a nice asset next year to play with.

Some food for thought, I read something on PFT a while back talking about players not being eligible for trade on draft day. No Manning for Rivers trades this year. If we select Green we could not trade him until after the lockout.
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Re: Atlanta Wants Green/Trade Down?

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:09 pm

Any time you can add quality players, you have to do it with this roster. If you can get two top 60 picks to move down 20 spots, I think you have to pull the trigger. Another AJ Green will come along in the draft over the next couple of years.
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Re: Atlanta Wants Green/Trade Down?

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:18 pm

What player/players do they have that could be thrown into the mix?
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Re: Atlanta Wants Green/Trade Down?

Unread postby Ziner » Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:25 pm

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:What player/players do they have that could be thrown into the mix?


Unless the lockout ends it doesnt matter, players couldnt be added. Besides they are a contender, they wouldnt give us any key pieces.
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Re: Atlanta Wants Green/Trade Down?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:25 pm

skatingtripods wrote:Any time you can add quality players, you have to do it with this roster. If you can get two top 60 picks to move down 20 spots, I think you have to pull the trigger. Another AJ Green will come along in the draft over the next couple of years.


I don't know, man.

You are moving down 21 spots to add pick #59 this year and (if Atlanta had the same position next year) #27 OR #59 next year.

Kiper has Cam Heyward #28 on his board. So, you are trading Peterson/Fairley for Cam Heyward*, pick #59 and a pick next year.

I know those picks are nothing to sneeze at, but are any of those guys studs like you are hoping to get at #6?

I don't know. I really don't. I think I stick with pick #6 unless they offer more than that.

*I understand my scenario is ridiculous and there are a lot of different players. I was just trying to stay in our area of need with a player sloted to go about that position.
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Re: Atlanta Wants Green/Trade Down?

Unread postby pup » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:29 pm

Ziner wrote:
peeker643 wrote:Do you do it if you can get their 1st and 2nd this year and their 1st next year instead of their 2nd next year?



That is what it would require for me to think about it. If they made an offer like that it would be tough to turn down because it sure is nice to acquire assets. Acquiring assets like NE allows you to really wheel and deal and run an more efficient draft. We would still add talent this year and add a nice asset next year to play with.

Some food for thought, I read something on PFT a while back talking about players not being eligible for trade on draft day. No Manning for Rivers trades this year. If we select Green we could not trade him until after the lockout.


Believe this only holds true for current players in the NFL. I think you can still trade drafted players at the draft.
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Re: Atlanta Wants Green/Trade Down?

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:33 pm

A guy at work (who provided this link) also passed along his thoughts. Is this scenario plausible and does it change your mind?

The Browns have so many needs it's not funny. I think they're set at Joe Thomas, Joe Haden, Alex Mack and TJ Ward. Maybe include Hillis in there. Everyone else could be upgraded, and they have desperate needs on the defensive line. They absolutely must build the line and then get playmakers. The NFL game is won and lost on the lines. With this mindset, I go into why I think the rumored trade is a best-case scenario and we should jump at it.

IMO, this draft has one premier player in Peterson. If (he's) available at 6, you take him and have 75% of the best secondary in the league. You could sign me to play D-end and I'll get sacks.

Let's say he's already gone though. The difference between the talent of players between picks 3-20 is pretty minimal. Teams are going to draft based on need rather than talent. So I don't think we'll see any offers from teams to move up from 10 to 6, or even 15 to 6. I think GM's feel their player will fall to them, and if not, there's other options that will be just as good. If a team like the Falcons feel Green will help that much, and they're willing to trade their first this year and next, and this year's 2, you jump at that to fill as many holes as possible. And with teams potentially willing to trade up to the bottom of the first to get their franchise QB, you use that (26th pick) to pick up their 2 this year and 1 next.

Suddenly, instead of potentially having B-grade talent at the 6 pick, you get B-grade talent three times in the second (Browns pick, Falcons pick and additional pick - maybe SF or Buffalo), plus 3 firsts next year. That's where you get your impact talent. You can take the 2's this year to pick up a CB, DE and a DT this year. Then next year, you could pick up Luck (possibly) for QB (or RB LaMichael James) , a stud RT and a stud WR in the first, and then a LB in the second. That would give the Browns core players at : LCB, RCB, SS, LB, DE, DT, LT, C, RT, WR, RB, QB (or 2nd RB) . Suddenly, the Browns have a really good team.

But again, if Peterson is there, have two shutdown corners. You pick up a WR in the second. Your core is now : LT, C, RB, WR, LCB, RCB, SS.

Frankly, I've seen nothing but disappointment and disarray in the Browns since they came back into the league. I'm willing to put off winning for one more year if it means we can pick up all those extra picks and have a truly good foundation. As shown above, trading the Green pick to Atlanta has a strong possibility of becoming that franchise-altering move.
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Re: Atlanta Wants Green/Trade Down?

Unread postby Ziner » Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:11 pm

pup wrote:
Ziner wrote: No Manning for Rivers trades this year. If we select Green we could not trade him until after the lockout.


Believe this only holds true for current players in the NFL. I think you can still trade drafted players at the draft.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... eyre-used/

Can trade picks, cannot trade players once drafted.

This year, picks may not be traded after they are made, if the lockout has not ended.

“The Manning-Rivers type of trade cannot happen this year due to the lockout rules,” NFL spokesman Greg Aiello told PFT via e-mail on Friday. “A trade at this time can involve only draft picks. Once a pick is made, the player cannot be traded (or signed) until a new league start begins. No player transactions are currently permitted.”


Also in the article, relevant to this topic

Future draft picks may be traded as well. Chris Mortensen of ESPN reported last month that the league has informed teams that any team that gives up a 2011 draft pick for a future draft pick does so at its own risk, given the chance that the Tom Brady antitrust lawsuit will result by next April in a ruling that the draft is illegal.
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Re: Atlanta Wants Green/Trade Down?

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:57 pm

That's too far to drop.
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Re: Atlanta Wants Green/Trade Down?

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:15 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:That's too far to drop.


That is way Not enough ammo for them to get our #6 overall.

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Re: Atlanta Wants Green/Trade Down?

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:29 pm

Radical thought... how about we hang on to the #6 pick and try and get an impact guy? Trading down smacks of, to quote Buddy Parker, trading a layer cake for three doughnuts.
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Re: Atlanta Wants Green/Trade Down?

Unread postby Triple-S » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:39 pm

hermanfontenot wrote:Radical thought... how about we hang on to the #6 pick and try and get an impact guy? Trading down smacks of, to quote Buddy Parker, trading a layer cake for three doughnuts.


This. Times a million.

Only way I'd really trade, is if Green, Jones and Peterson are all off the board.
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Re: Atlanta Wants Green/Trade Down?

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:21 pm

peeker your buddy makes some points, but how in the world does he get to us some how having a shot at Luck with his theory?

Why does he think we can possibly draft Luck in 2012?

It seems like he sees the trade offer as a nice upgrade in talent but at the same time isn't confident enough to suggest it takes us out of the Luck range for 2012? IOW he says do it b/c it makes you better, but we're still drafting really really high, I am reading him correctly?
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Re: Atlanta Wants Green/Trade Down?

Unread postby hiko » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:02 pm

The old draft value chart needs to be flushed. Top 10 picks will be much more valuable with a rookie wage scale.

Here's what I tell Atlanta to get me to drop from 6 to 27: You give me your 1st and 2nd Rounders this year and your 1st and 2nd Rounders next year, and it's a done deal. Otherwise, you can suck my purple-headed warrior.
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Re: Atlanta Wants Green/Trade Down?

Unread postby Triple-S » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:08 pm

hiko wrote:The old draft value chart needs to be flushed. Top 10 picks will be much more valuable with a rookie wage scale.

Here's what I tell Atlanta to get me to drop from 6 to 27: You give me your 1st and 2nd Rounders this year and your 1st and 2nd Rounders next year, and it's a done deal. Otherwise, you can suck my purple-headed warrior.


The Trade did seem extremely lop-sided to me.

I mean, you're talking about a top 10 pic, one that could potentially be a pro-bowl caliber, maybe even if he's good enough, MVP-level talent, all for a pick in the 20's and two 2nd rounders?

Again, if the guy you want is off the board, maybe this is the trade you make, but not if you have say at least 2 out of the 3 guys you have marked down.
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Re: Atlanta Wants Green/Trade Down?

Unread postby pup » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:00 pm

Ziner wrote:
pup wrote:
Ziner wrote: No Manning for Rivers trades this year. If we select Green we could not trade him until after the lockout.


Believe this only holds true for current players in the NFL. I think you can still trade drafted players at the draft.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... eyre-used/

Can trade picks, cannot trade players once drafted.

This year, picks may not be traded after they are made, if the lockout has not ended.

“The Manning-Rivers type of trade cannot happen this year due to the lockout rules,” NFL spokesman Greg Aiello told PFT via e-mail on Friday. “A trade at this time can involve only draft picks. Once a pick is made, the player cannot be traded (or signed) until a new league start begins. No player transactions are currently permitted.”


Also in the article, relevant to this topic

Future draft picks may be traded as well. Chris Mortensen of ESPN reported last month that the league has informed teams that any team that gives up a 2011 draft pick for a future draft pick does so at its own risk, given the chance that the Tom Brady antitrust lawsuit will result by next April in a ruling that the draft is illegal.


My bad. Thanks for the update.
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Re: Atlanta Wants Green/Trade Down?

Unread postby yogi » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:54 am

hiko wrote:The old draft value chart needs to be flushed. Top 10 picks will be much more valuable with a rookie wage scale.

Here's what I tell Atlanta to get me to drop from 6 to 27: You give me your 1st and 2nd Rounders this year and your 1st and 2nd Rounders next year, and it's a done deal. Otherwise, you can suck my purple-headed warrior.


Yes. This.

Or a similar, for our #6 pick you give us your 1st, 2nd & 3rd round picks this year and next year's 1st.

I had read somewhere that next years' pick is equivalent to this years, only a round lower. ie ; next years 1 is worth this years 2. Next years 4th round is worth his yeasr 5th round , etc.

You could also put the presure squarely on the Falcons for them to move up into the mid-teens and then agree to talk with them.
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Re: Atlanta Wants Green/Trade Down?

Unread postby mikeperry » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:51 am

Peeker WAAAAAAYYY ahead of the curve on this. What a stud.
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